I liked it. It was an interesting story.

I don't think it's yuri though. Their relationship isn't romantic and they're fine with that, and I'm fine with that too. But that's not yuri.

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 3:33AM

Reading all the comments i think we all can agree that Rio got played very dirty XD damn poor girl

RIOOOOO!!! I wanted to see what happens with her. Overall I respect what the author was going for and how it ended but like Noctis just said, Rio got screwed over.

Readers demand accurate tagging of manga… and whatever happened to “Bad End” tag?

Need a tag for letting down readership expectations: I humbly submit, “No Sales”. As in, nobody will buy this if published elsewhere.

This ending feels unsatisfying.

I actually liked that the annoying kouhai and younger sister ended up marrying each other (patting myself on the back for predicting that). But since I though the story was about Yuriko developing romantic feeling for Matoi, the way things ended with them being close but still not living together feels weird.

I think it would have been fine if Yuriko at least thought she was romantically interested in Matoi and later discovered it wasn't the case, but it just seemed like she had done some self-reflection we didn't get to see.

But we did get to see her self-reflection. What about the times she wondered if her care for Matoi might be love? Or the time she thought she ought to offer herself to satisfy Matoi's wants? (what she thought Matoi wanted, anyway). And in the end she realized that she couldn't reciprocate her feelings and clearly communicated that. If you decided on your own that it was a story about Yuriko developing romantic feelings, then you were setting yourself up for disappointment. And seeing as there were readers who expected that, I suppose the "not living together, but right next door to each other", really was the best choice on the author's part to show that they were not, in fact, in a romantic relationship, and never would be.

i don't know, i get a feeling like watching a Dog Fight where 2 dogs get thrown in a pit together and forced to fight in which one of them wants to fight but the other one keep running away. Then in the middle of the fight another dog get throwing in and it wants to fight too but neither of the others dog want to fight that dog but instead they keep the "chasing- fleeing" status going while the third dog watching them in sorrow. And in the end, the first 2 dogs which one of them still have the spirit to fight but can't because whether it start chasing the other dog that dog will start running away so they stop the chasing-fleeing situation and sitting next to each other awkwardly while the third dog magically disappear???
Yeah... all in all, it sucks.

I....I don't really get why you had to make this a metaphor for dog fights. Like, the point of metaphors is to draw a comparison to a more common, relatable situation to help someone understand your abstract idea.

In what messed up world do weird dog fights make ace romance less abstract?

Hehe, yeah i know it's a weird comparison. What i'm trying to say is the plot is at first seem really promising, but the as the story goes, you expect to have some turning points or exciting climax moments but then all of the problems get solved too easily, too smooth that the situations are anti-climax.
I don't expect the story to be too dramatic or even angs, but at least the author could have make the characters grown by really put their minds on the problems and try their best to solve the it, instead of letting their LUCK solve everything -_-

And, poor Rio. Does the author hates her or something?

Hehe, yeah i know it's a weird comparison. What i'm trying to say is the plot is at first seem really promising, but the as the story goes, you expect to have some turning points or exciting climax moments but then all of the problems get solved too easily, too smooth that the situations are anti-climax.
I don't expect the story to be too dramatic or even angs, but at least the author could have make the characters grown by really put their minds on the problems and try their best to solve the it, instead of letting their LUCK solve everything -_-

now I'm concerned that the actual dogfight is meant to be the exciting part that we want in this analogy ^^;;

Anyway (and to be clear this is not in response to the quoted comment but to others), I think the backlash in the comments here where people are like "i hate this and it should be tagged as a bad story that no one would ever read" is hyperbolic at best and acephobic at worst. I realize that some people do want an aggressively curated reading selection according to a very stock set of tropes, and I don't mean to imply that a particular reading style is better than others, but I don't think it's useful to weaponize that desire against a much less conventional story about a much less conventional group. Whether or not this desire is veiled in one's complaints about the tagging system, it smacks at least of closed-mindedness: if you're this wildly opposed to seeing stories about ace characters in meaningful but nonromantic relationships, I think it might be a good idea to ask yourself why. This certainly isn't a romance story, but saying that the characters' relationship "went nowhere" or was a "bad ending" seems to imply that the only place for a fulfilling relationship to go, or the only way for an ending to be "good," is to have a stock alloromantic finale. Applying that standard to a story about two ace characters, one of whom was clearly aromantic from the jump, is worrying to me. (Whoever said this should be tagged as nonbinary because the relationship "went nowhere" managed to sneak NBphobia in there along with the acephobia somehow, which is impressive given that all the characters in this are cis.)

As far as what I think of the manga itself, I think the narrative did a great job of establishing how the main two settled down in the end, and I'm quite satisfied with where their relationship ended up. However, I think the side characters in general could have used a lot more resolution. Rio especially, of course, but really all of Mayoi's college friends could have used some tying up, and seeing /how/ those relationships tied up would have told us a lot more about Mayoi as a character besides adding emotional resolution to the story of a prominent, likeable character it's clear everyone was invested in. I also agree in principle if not in choice of analogy with the comment quoted above in that things do tend to work out too quickly and cleanly throughout. Interesting conflicts are posed, but the story sometimes glides past them without addressing the potential messiness, which makes the story lose some of the punch it could have had. I'm not sure about the arc around Yuriko's burns, either--it seemed to imply early on that Yuriko's reservations about sex and romance stemmed from self-consciousness about the burns (which may have helped mislead our alloromantic readerbase), when in reality the burns were entirely beside the point and served as more as a visual metaphor I'm not sure we needed. They could have served as a conflict unto themselves, but see the above point about the conflicts in this story working out too easily. There was never really any question as to whether Mayoi would care about the burns, and there isn't even a beat where Yuriko pulls away or something over a misunderstanding around them, so while I don't dislike their inclusion, I'm not sure what they added.

Still, though, I see similar messiness, flaws, etc. in yuri stories (and het stories, for that matter) all the time. It doesn't make this story exceptionally flawed, it makes it... averagely flawed. Normally flawed. No classic, maybe not even something to reread down the line, but not terrible by any stretch. The characters are all likeable and convincing, certainly, and I think I'll remember them months or years down the line, so the story clearly got something right along with all it got wrong (besides, if the characters weren't convincing, I don't think people would be invested enough to blow up at the ending). Personally, I'm glad I read it on the whole, though I don't think I'll recommend it to friends, or at least not without caveats.

re:yuri, I do think this is an interesting edge case as to whether yuri is defined as "stories about women loving women" or "romance stories with female leads," because this is clearly the former but not the latter. I do not join the chorus demanding that the tag be removed. I think the author sets forth an elegant case for the story being construed broadly as yuri, and it's certainly a queer, female-centric story about homoromantic (as well as other) relationships and how they do or don't shake out under complex circumstances. Besides, under the strict definition, something like So, Do You Want to Go Out, Or? wouldn't be yuri either, and yet I don't see people complaining about that nearly as broadly or loudly.

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 7:08AM

Personally I don't really like this story, but I am not aro ace so maybe that's why. But I do think its great there are coming more and more different kind of Yuri stories to which more people can relate :)

Re: tags. Rio is into Matoi that way. By Dynasty’s standards that alone makes it yuri, full stop.

Re: the art. Overall I thought there were a lot of good things about the visuals—for instance, I thought the motorcycle-ride scenes were effective in their use of landscape and negative space—but sometimes there was something just a little off in the way the faces were drawn: i.e., chins a little too sharp and pointed in proportion to the foreheads, a little inconsistency in the faces from different angles, and most distractingly, the faces sometimes seemed a little cross-eyed.

This isn’t a major complaint, but I did get an initial hit of “this doesn’t look quite right” often enough to notice it before I could then get immersed in the story.

Re: tags. Rio is into Matoi that way. By Dynasty’s standards that alone makes it yuri, full stop.

I don't think that applies here, since Rio is only a side character. Of course it would add to the argument that this still stands as a yuri work (as would the appearance of the lesbian couple), even if there is no conventional romance between the main leads, but it wouldn't define it as such. (The same way having a female side character crushing on the main female lead of a het romance wouldn't make that work yuri).

Re: tags. Rio is into Matoi that way. By Dynasty’s standards that alone makes it yuri, full stop.

I don't think that applies here, since Rio is only a side character. Of course it would add to the argument that this still stands as a yuri work (as would the appearance of the lesbian couple), even if there is no conventional romance between the main leads, but it wouldn't define it as such. (The same way having a female side character crushing on the main female lead of a het romance wouldn't make that work yuri).

I personally don’t give much of an . . . anything whether a work is “really yuri” or not—those discussions are basically meaningless to me.

But traditionally on Dynasty the presence of one female-identified person who likes another such person “that way” and who knows it, and especially if the other person is aware of it, qualifies a series for the yuri tag.

I’m sure there may well be exceptions, but that is the way it usually works around here (and I think that is a very sensible attitude).

“Yuri crush” is defined pretty precisely:

Soft feelings of amorous interest in another girl, as pure as a lily is white.
A feeling present mostly in young adolescents - often triggered by bear print panties, handsome women, or a case of mistaken identity.

This tag is meant particularly for non-yuri series, and should not be used in any story with a yuri tag, nor as another name for one-sided love. (Emphasis mine)

So a story where a character is like, “I want to do it with you, if you’re up for it” is yuri.

I find it funny that people are delving into to the “is this yuri?” debate when the author actually muses on that in the afterword.

For me, this is unquestionably yuri in the classic sense and as well as in the more modern sense. They are two women who are special to each other and who plan to stay together. I think it’s important to have stories that explicitly aim for showing an ace relationship instead of leaving things subtextual.

Also, I know a few adults who don’t live with their long term partners who prefer it that way. Some people do better having their own space. One of the main themes of this story is that you can’t assume that relationships need to look a certain way to be valid.

I do wish we could’ve gotten a follow up with Rio. I hate seeing the stalking horse discarded so flippantly, but oh well

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 9:54AM

Re: tags. Rio is into Matoi that way. By Dynasty’s standards that alone makes it yuri, full stop.

I don't think that applies here, since Rio is only a side character. Of course it would add to the argument that this still stands as a yuri work (as would the appearance of the lesbian couple), even if there is no conventional romance between the main leads, but it wouldn't define it as such. (The same way having a female side character crushing on the main female lead of a het romance wouldn't make that work yuri).

I personally don’t give much of an . . . anything whether a work is “really yuri” or not—those discussions are basically meaningless to me.

But traditionally on Dynasty the presence of one female-identified person who likes another such person “that way” and who knows it, and especially if the other person is aware of it, qualifies a series for the yuri tag.

I’m sure there may well be exceptions, but that is the way it usually works around here (and I think that is a very sensible attitude). [...]

This isn't really an answer to what I said though. My point was that Rio is a side character. She doesn't define the genre of the work, because her role in it is quite limited —heck, the author didn't even give her a proper conclusion.

So a story where a character is like, “I want to do it with you, if you’re up for it” is yuri.

A story where one of the main characters feels that way, yes. A story where a secondary character feels that way? No, not necessarily. My counterexample remains the same: having a secondary female character who likes the female lead in a het romance, obviously doesn't make the whole work yuri.

This manga seems very much yuri to me —and would classify as such by Dynasty standards— but not because of Rio; rather, because of the strong bond between the two female leads and Matoi's feelings for Yuriko (which fall exactly into the category of female-identified person liking another such person “that way” and knowing it, with the other person also being aware of it).

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 10:32AM

Reading the comments I'm getting a lot of allos mad Yuriko's aro/ace characterization was maintained and respected rather than being "cured" (I literally cannot think of a better word to use) of her aceness and realizing romantic feelings for Matoi.

I'm just glad they didn't really use it as a major source of drama or as something to be "fixed", which I'm only now really seeing is a... worryingly common trope... hmm...

Also ace QP relationship between two girls is still yuri cry about it

We don't have a tag for aro yet? could be a good opportunity to take that into consideration

Also I think the ending was ok, I enjoyed the series as a whole so the end doesn't bother me

Re: tags. Rio is into Matoi that way. By Dynasty’s standards that alone makes it yuri, full stop.

I don't think that applies here, since Rio is only a side character. Of course it would add to the argument that this still stands as a yuri work (as would the appearance of the lesbian couple), even if there is no conventional romance between the main leads, but it wouldn't define it as such. (The same way having a female side character crushing on the main female lead of a het romance wouldn't make that work yuri).

I personally don’t give much of an . . . anything whether a work is “really yuri” or not—those discussions are basically meaningless to me.

But traditionally on Dynasty the presence of one female-identified person who likes another such person “that way” and who knows it, and especially if the other person is aware of it, qualifies a series for the yuri tag.

I’m sure there may well be exceptions, but that is the way it usually works around here (and I think that is a very sensible attitude). [...]

This isn't really an answer to what I said though. My point was that Rio is a side character. She doesn't define the genre of the work, because her role in it is quite limited —heck, the author didn't even give her a proper conclusion.

My point is that in terms of Dynasty tags your point is completely irrelevant. Side character or not is meaningless. You, of course, are free to restrict your personal definition of yuri to only MCs or whatever else suits your fancy. I repeat, that’s not how it’s usually done around here.

I cited Rio because she in herself meets the standards for minimum active yuri ingredient for a Dynasty tag, so the dithering upstream about whether the MCs count as yuri is entirely beside the point—Dynasty has a standard, Rio meets that standard, and all the rest (which I agree is more than considerable) is excess to that standard.

EDIT: The fact that the author calls the story “yuri” would itself earn a Dynasty tag with as much woman to woman attraction as is found in Chapter 1 alone.

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 11:38AM

I don't know if I want to punch a wall really hard right now or thank the world for giving us this story

Those two panels when they get home and you see they have different houses are quite the punch in the feelings...

My point is that in terms of Dynasty tags your point is completely irrelevant. Side character or not is meaningless. You, of course, are free to restrict your personal definition of yuri to only MCs or whatever else suits your fancy. I repeat, that’s not how it’s usually done around here.

I cited Rio because she in herself meets the standards for minimum active yuri ingredient for a Dynasty tag, so the dithering upstream about whether the MCs count as yuri is entirely beside the point—Dynasty has a standard, Rio meets that standard, and all the rest (which I agree is more than considerable) is excess to that standard.

EDIT: The fact that the author calls the story “yuri” would itself earn a Dynasty tag with as much woman to woman attraction as is found in Chapter 1 alone.

I realise I was mistaken about the tagging system, seeing how 14-sai no Koi, for example, is actually tagged as yuri, so that was my misconception. Thank you for your time and have a good day.

And, poor Rio. Does the author hates her or something?

Pretty much

My point is that in terms of Dynasty tags your point is completely irrelevant. Side character or not is meaningless. You, of course, are free to restrict your personal definition of yuri to only MCs or whatever else suits your fancy. I repeat, that’s not how it’s usually done around here.

I cited Rio because she in herself meets the standards for minimum active yuri ingredient for a Dynasty tag, so the dithering upstream about whether the MCs count as yuri is entirely beside the point—Dynasty has a standard, Rio meets that standard, and all the rest (which I agree is more than considerable) is excess to that standard.

EDIT: The fact that the author calls the story “yuri” would itself earn a Dynasty tag with as much woman to woman attraction as is found in Chapter 1 alone.

I realise I was mistaken about the tagging system, seeing how 14-sai no Koi, for example, is actually tagged as yuri, so that was my misconception. Thank you for your time and have a good day.

We're good. It's probably best to think of a Dynasty tag as simply meaning "trope is present" rather than as identifying the genre of a series--as you say, there's no doubt that yuri is present in 14-sai, although no one could ever coherently argue that the series itself "is yuri."

The more interesting categorical question remains, and will no doubt be raised much more often in the future--if yuri is defined as a romance genre, how do stories centered on aro-ace characters relate to that genre, and what kinds of stories will be possible going forward? And if romance is not inherent in the overall concept of yuri, what exactly is?

So even if this series is not entirely successful as a story, it definitely has advanced a conversation that's been waiting to happen.

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 12:52PM

Dont know what you guys talk about, the ending was great both heart warming and fufilling
Feels like Qualia Purple again, gosh that's why I like introspective tag

That was pretty abrupt. The last chapter felt like half the length of the usual ones and didn’t really reveal much apart from the sister being married now. We already knew where things stood from the last chapter and nothing really changed, so it was more like a bonus “where are they now?” chapter except they left out Rio lmao. Shame, the slow pace and the atmosphere were the best things for me. I would totally be okay with like 10 chapters of virtually no plot progression just for the vibes this series gave. This would not be the first series on this site to end like this and it’s nowhere near the worst example.

I do wonder if this is a relationship that would last in reality, Matoi is holding on to quite literally an impossible love. Yuri has her emotional needs fulfilled but Matoi’s are not, honestly if Matoi were to move on and fall in love with someone else no one would really lose anything.

Reading the comments I'm getting a lot of allos mad Yuriko's aro/ace characterization was maintained and respected rather than being "cured" (I literally cannot think of a better word to use) of her aceness and realizing romantic feelings for Matoi.

I'm just glad they didn't really use it as a major source of drama or as something to be "fixed", which I'm only now really seeing is a... worryingly common trope... hmm...

Also ace QP relationship between two girls is still yuri cry about it

I'm not allo, I just thought the story was going somewhere different, which is my fault, but doesn't make me not aro/ace.

i thought Yuriko and annoying kuhai got together, i was scared for a sec

kyoani ahh relationship lmaooooooooooo

last edited at Apr 30, 2022 7:45PM