Forum › Not Black, Not White discussion
A battlefield I have no place to be in.
But there needs to be more comics like this,because normal romance was already thrown out the window in many,many,many,many other comics that you can find on this site.
The Dynasty forum "This Story Should Have Been Written So The People Are The Way I Like Them To Be" contingent is a mighty army--bright are their banners, and their pure-white armor gleams beneath the midday sun.
What is this comment doing besides inflaming a discussion that doesn't need to be?
I'm sorry--which forum rule does the post violate?
I didn't even know there was a forum rule. But I am in the discord, and here's what it says, very first rule: "Don't be a jerk, harass people, create or perpetuate drama, or any other of those things."
Edit: If Yuni couldn't make it any more clearer then, in theory people shouldn't see Risa any other way. Wrong. Risa is still giving mix reactions,
Not at all--the author is quite clear that Risa and Yuka are OK with their relationship going forward, even though it's complex and ambiguous.
But (some) readers are definitely not OK with that relationship, not because the author hasn't made it clear that it's the case, but because readers don't think the couple should be OK with that relationship, due to the bad behavior/unhealthy responses, etc. of the characters. The "mixed" reactions are to the behavior imagined as if it were happening in real life and outside the context established by the story.
The discussion immediately launched into a debate about which character was or was not a "horrible person," when it's clear that neither the author nor the characters in the story are at all concerned with that--the third or fourth comment here was simply, "disgusting."
last edited at Dec 18, 2021 11:28AM
Chiming in as a poly person: I think Risa definitely reads as poly to me. And while intentionally stoking your partner's jealousy is a dick move, I think Risa didn't quite understand how much it was hurting Yuka. Risa is both less likely to intuitively understand the intensity of a mono person's jealousy and she probably assumed that Yuka was being honest about being ok with Risa being poly.
If Yuka doesn't communicate, then Risa will have a much harder time understanding just how much Yuka's jealousy hurts.
Also, given the fact that Yuka agreed to date Risa despite knowing how Risa is, whether Risa was actually seeing other people or not is unimportant. The fact that it took so long after living together for Yuka to actually confront Risa is at least partially on her.
What is this comment doing besides inflaming a discussion that doesn't need to be?
I'm sorry--which forum rule does the post violate?
I never said any rules were violated. I asked for clarification on your comment's function.
I didn't even know there was a forum rule. But I am in the discord, and here's what it says, very first rule: "Don't be a jerk, harass people, create or perpetuate drama, or any other of those things."
The forum rules may be read here. Note that the forum and Discord rules are not 1:1 copies of each other, as different platforms demand different standards.
What is this comment doing besides inflaming a discussion that doesn't need to be?
I'm sorry--which forum rule does the post violate?
I never said any rules were violated. I asked for clarification on your comment's function.
The "function" was to express my opinion about the relevance of much of the discussion, just as those who had strongly expressed opinions about polyamory, bisexuality, about the "horribleness" of the characters, etc. seemed to have free rein to do.
As someone who's polyamorous I would never even think of doing something like this to someone, this is just emotional manipulation, poly people aren't people who only crave for sex, intimacy is nice but to play around with others in that way is not, sure I would be going out with multiple people at the same time, consensually of course, but that doesn't mean I'm not tying myself up emotionally with any of them, I experience love in a different way than usual but it doesn't mean that I just want to fuck with other's just for my own pleasure. On another topic, love the artwork (ﾉ´ヮ`)ﾉ*: ･ﾟ
last edited at Dec 18, 2021 11:51AM
This is why the whole poly thing doesn't sit well to me, I know most aren't like this! But for me, well, I didn't like the first part much, this I liked even less. I guess it's because I am quite a monogamous girl. And still, people can have open relationships and all, but I think, it seems to me, you really should have some sort of arrangement made beforehand.
No hate for the polys! Just totally not for me, and certainly not like this girl does it!!! if she's even that.
Then again, it's the other girl's own choice to suffer here, if she doesn't like someone who sleeps around...breakup or go away or something ffs
last edited at Dec 18, 2021 12:10PM
Yes. The only reason why I'm calling Risa a bad person right now is because I don't know her perspective yet. That is why I can only assume she's bad. As of now, Yuni has badly written Risa.
Being written as a bad person - whether I agree with you on this point notwithstanding - is not the same as badly written though.
Not at all--the author is quite clear that Risa and Yuri are OK with their relationship going forward, even though it's complex and ambiguous.
But (some) readers are definitely not OK with that relationship, not because the author hasn't made it clear that it's the case, but because readers don't think the couple should be OK with that relationship, due to the bad behavior/unhealthy responses, etc. of the characters. The "mixed" reactions are to the behavior imagined as if it were happening in real life and outside the context established by the story.
The discussion immediately launched into a debate about which character was or was not a "horrible person," when it's clear that neither the author nor the characters in the story are at all concerned with that--the third or fourth comment here was simply, "disgusting."
Well, personally I think both Yuka and Risa are messed up one way or another. Well of course Yuka loves Risa, and she does want to proceed it's just she thinks Risa is still doing what she does back in the days(sleeping around) and it's clear she's not okay with it based on her saying she hates the thought of Risa being in some else's arms.
I think a lot of us, just like to see it as direct as possible. Because we fear the unknown, open endings or endings where we don't get a direct conclusion has always rubbed me the wrong way. I've read one-shots and stories where it seems like the feelings are one sided.
Where say it seems like person A is just going along with person B. And you never get to understand if person A loves person B; or person A is just feeling obligated too. Or in some cases readers know for sure that A and B got together, but something just felt off. It just feels like both parties aren't involved, and one is engaged but one isn't. And this just leaves to number of questions.
One of the most prime example is Historia x Ymir, viewers can tell that Ymir genuinely loved and cared for Historia. The problem was Historia, did she love Ymir, yes. But, was it romantic? Was it platonic? We don't know and we never got to know.
This is why we NEED Risa's perspective and understand her thoughts. Is she just bad? Is she just a tease? Is she reasonable? Is this story as realistic as we think it is?
The concept of "not all relationship is perfect," has been overdone so many times wrong—this isn't the first time mangakas has tried to put realistic concepts in romance. It's the fact that writers(just in general) thinks a "not perfect relationship," means one/both is/are people who aren't fitting with one another, but continues to "make it work" because they love one another. Like if the only thing keeping your relationship together is "making it work," then that is very unrealistic on many levels, if you want realism get on Luka Megurine's level of "Just be Friends." I can evaluate the whole song and music video if I have too, if you don't know the song I recommend that you listen to it and watch the music video. It's depressing enough to make me cry a river.
last edited at Dec 18, 2021 12:37PM
Yes. The only reason why I'm calling Risa a bad person right now is because I don't know her perspective yet. That is why I can only assume she's bad. As of now, Yuni has badly written Risa.
Being written as a bad person - whether I agree with you on this point notwithstanding - is not the same as badly written though.
Yes... that was my point...
As someone who's polyamorous I would never even think of doing something like this to someone, this is just emotional manipulation, poly people aren't people who only crave for sex, intimacy is nice but to play around with others in that way is not, sure I would be going out with multiple people at the same time, consensually of course, but that doesn't mean I'm not tying myself up emotionally with any of them, I experience love in a different way than usual but it doesn't mean that I just want to fuck with other's just for my own pleasure. On another topic, love the artwork (ﾉ´ヮ`)ﾉ*: ･ﾟ
THIS. Thank you. Like I don't know I just keep seeing Risa contradicting how you feel as a polyamorous person. Thats why it felt so wrong to label her polyamorous, because though she's straightforward she doesn't understand that Yuka isn't on the same page as her.
This is why the whole poly thing doesn't sit well to me, I know most aren't like this! But for me, well, I didn't like the first part much, this I liked even less. I guess it's because I am quite a monogamous girl. And still, people can have open relationships and all, but I think, it seems to me, you really should have some sort of arrangement made beforehand.
No hate for the polys! Just totally not for me, and certainly not like this girl does it!!! if she's even that.
Then again, it's the other girl's own choice to suffer here, if she doesn't like someone who sleeps around...breakup or go away or something ffs
FOR REAL. That's why it's also unfair to but all the blame on Risa(I kinda did that in the start) but it seems like this is a relationship where both aren't trying to understand one another. And Yuka is also being too much of a pushover, and decided that she wants to be with Risa even if it hurts her. That is frustrating!!
last edited at Dec 18, 2021 3:28PM
I think Risa legitimately does love Yuka, even with everything else. It's probably gonna be messy if Risa and Yuka can't work something out because they have very different (on the surface) wants and needs, but I don't think it's impossible to make it work.
First off we don't know how long these two have been together exactly, but Risa did say she hadn't slept with any men since they got together. Hopefully in the future if she needs something different she can talk it out with Yuka. It's difficult being a polyamorous person in a monogomous relationship but both people's feelings are sincere so some compromises can be made
The "function" was to express my opinion about the relevance of much of the discussion, just as those who had strongly expressed opinions about polyamory, bisexuality, about the "horribleness" of the characters, etc. seemed to have free rein to do.
Sure. This is a thread for the manga Not Black, Not White. Folks wishing to discuss the story and the ideas presented therein are welcome to do so here. Those other posts you mentioned all appear to have centered around the story, its themes, and its actors. The post of yours I cited, by comparison, was concerned only with the actions of people here. Not in a way that's easily tolerable, either - at least twice in this thread you've been notably dismissive and rude to large groups of posters on these forums, without adding much to the actual discussion at hand.
I'd appreciate in the future if comments of either nature are kept to a minimum. Thanks.
FOR REAL. That's why it's also unfair to but all the blame on Risa(I kinda did that in the start) but it seems like this is a relationship where both aren't trying to understand one another. And Yuka is also being too much of a pushover, and decided that she wants to be with Risa even if it hurts her. That is frustrating!!
Nari, while I appreciate your enthusiasm for the discussion, I'd appreciate if you grouped your quotations together rather than spreading them across 4-5 posts made at roughly the same time. It'd also be good to not stray too far from the topic at hand, if it can be helped. Thanks.
Idk, this just made wish for some real sigma mindset yuri.lol
The story is good though.
having sex with several people it's okay but damn lying to the other girl because it turned you on to see her jealous and staying with her even tho you know she loves you (which is blondie's fault mostly)and you'd never reciprocate is kinda wrong :/
I don't see where Risa lied, anywhere. She didn't say she'd been sleeping with men/other people recently. Yuka made her own (natural) assumptions. I think Risa was even going to correct her here, https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/not_black_not_white#14 "But that's not-" But she got cut off, and then she decided to run with. She does feed the jealousy by reminding Yuka she likes other people on page 16, you can call it deceptive, but there's no outright lie.
Risa is a self-centered woman, who continues to keep Yuka around her tail. Not because she loves Yuka, but because she constantly wants someone she know will be there to love her. Because she likes to play around, with people that aren't necessarily attached to her, she still needs someone else there to hold her pride. Risa liked that Yuka felt jealous, because it told her one thing, it's that Yuka has completely fall for her trap of narcissism. It's been clear since day one that Risa never wanted to, and never liked to commit to relationships(this is an information critical for if the thought of her being a polyamorous person occurs*), it's the fact that she isn't attached to anyone; but instead prefers that one person is at least attached to her, while she plays with many other people. In short Risa is a narcissistic player, who has the right victim in her hands. Risa gets off on the fact that, even though she is a horrible person for liking to sleep around a lot, at the end of the day she still has at least one person who is emotionally attached to her where she can just go to, to cope—until she gets bored, and a new cycle repeats.
I don't agree with this one bit. Firstly, you are not a horrible person for liking to sleep around. Second, she is not narcissistic since she made clear everything from the start and had consent. From day 1. Furthermore, I saw literally not even one criterion of narcissism (since I'm a psychologist). The fact that she got off on her being jaelous it completely normal and happens in monogamy as well. I am not polyamorous, but if I were I would be super disappointed and hurt by a comment like this.
I'm triggered lol As a polya person, I was shocked by the big comment but it's okay. We're different (so thanks to the second comment) and live with different relationships. I enjoyed this small form of polyamory relationship even if I think Risa in the end, we can feel she's okay to go around but until there someone special... She's maybe a kind of polyamory person with a special person (I'm like that while there other polyamory people who aren't like that).
By the way, don't want to debate about it, just wanted to thanks the person who think of polyamorous (and sorey, english isn't my first language).
I love potentially toxic relationships, they're great for drama. I eat this shit up.
Itadakimasu
having sex with several people it's okay but damn lying to the other girl because it turned you on to see her jealous and staying with her even tho you know she loves you (which is blondie's fault mostly)and you'd never reciprocate is kinda wrong :/
I don't see where Risa lied, anywhere. She didn't say she'd been sleeping with men/other people recently. Yuka made her own (natural) assumptions. I think Risa was even going to correct her here, https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/not_black_not_white#14 "But that's not-" But she got cut off, and then she decided to run with. She does feed the jealousy by reminding Yuka she likes other people on page 16, you can call it deceptive, but there's no outright lie.
i mean that kind of attitude is a red flag
last edited at Dec 19, 2021 3:47PM by OrangePekoe
The "function" was to express my opinion about the relevance of much of the discussion, just as those who had strongly expressed opinions about polyamory, bisexuality, about the "horribleness" of the characters, etc. seemed to have free rein to do.
Sure. This is a thread for the manga Not Black, Not White. Folks wishing to discuss the story and the ideas presented therein are welcome to do so here. Those other posts you mentioned all appear to have centered around the story, its themes, and its actors. The post of yours I cited, by comparison, was concerned only with the actions of people here. Not in a way that's easily tolerable, either - at least twice in this thread you've been notably dismissive and rude to large groups of posters on these forums, without adding much to the actual discussion at hand.
Eh, it was short and funny. That goes a long way in making a comment tolerable.
The "discussion at hand" you speak of is mostly made of Nari's huge walls of text expounding on the goods and evils of bisexuality and polyamory. I stopped reading them after page 1, now I just skip over them. And I suspect I'm not the only one, it's likely many readers do the same. But then, can we really say these MWOTs add much to anything?
This kind of thing always make my heart ache.
The "function" was to express my opinion about the relevance of much of the discussion, just as those who had strongly expressed opinions about polyamory, bisexuality, about the "horribleness" of the characters, etc. seemed to have free rein to do.
Sure. This is a thread for the manga Not Black, Not White. Folks wishing to discuss the story and the ideas presented therein are welcome to do so here. Those other posts you mentioned all appear to have centered around the story, its themes, and its actors. The post of yours I cited, by comparison, was concerned only with the actions of people here. Not in a way that's easily tolerable, either - at least twice in this thread you've been notably dismissive and rude to large groups of posters on these forums, without adding much to the actual discussion at hand.
Eh, it was short and funny. That goes a long way in making a comment tolerable.
The "discussion at hand" you speak of is mostly made of Nari's huge walls of text expounding on the goods and evils of bisexuality and polyamory. I stopped reading them after page 1, now I just skip over them. And I suspect I'm not the only one, it's likely many readers do the same. But then, can we really say these MWOTs add much to anything?
I'm not a great fan of the Tolstoyian length replies but people on here can post as long a reply as long as it's relevant to the thread . You gave the solution to your problem in your post.
Risa is a self-centered woman, who continues to keep Yuka around her tail. Not because she loves Yuka, but because she constantly wants someone she know will be there to love her. Because she likes to play around, with people that aren't necessarily attached to her, she still needs someone else there to hold her pride. Risa liked that Yuka felt jealous, because it told her one thing, it's that Yuka has completely fall for her trap of narcissism. It's been clear since day one that Risa never wanted to, and never liked to commit to relationships(this is an information critical for if the thought of her being a polyamorous person occurs*), it's the fact that she isn't attached to anyone; but instead prefers that one person is at least attached to her, while she plays with many other people. In short Risa is a narcissistic player, who has the right victim in her hands. Risa gets off on the fact that, even though she is a horrible person for liking to sleep around a lot, at the end of the day she still has at least one person who is emotionally attached to her where she can just go to, to cope—until she gets bored, and a new cycle repeats.
Yuka impulsive and childish so and easy to lead by the nose. She doesn't know how to deal with her feelings responsibly and Rika picks up on that. Even though Rika says she doesn't sleep with men whilst she was sleeping with Yuka, she knows how it makes Rika feel and she's gets off on it and therefore plays her with it.
I don't know if folks know this but there is more than one way to have a relationship and this relationship that they have at the moment seemingly works for both of them, there's no need to project insecurities on to fictional characters to justify how ya feel about poly/non traditional relationships. Stoking the jealousy however was a dick move indeed. I digress though like someone commented earlier folks are really missing the point of the title and the message of the story in general. Nobody is completely at fault here nor are either of them completely innocent in all this. This is just simply them. Story was neato.
P.S. Let's all just chill out a bit and be kinder.
last edited at Dec 19, 2021 8:34AM
I'm not a great fan of the Tolstoyian length replies but people on here can post as long a reply as long as it's relevant to the thread. You gave the solution to your problem in your post.
And in the same way, if you don't like Blastaar's posts disputing the relevance of such MWOTs, you are free to use that selfsame solution. No need for OrangePekoe to personally step in just to say shut up.
Eh, it was short and funny. That goes a long way in making a comment tolerable.
The "discussion at hand" you speak of is mostly made of Nari's huge walls of text expounding on the goods and evils of bisexuality and polyamory. I stopped reading them after page 1, now I just skip over them. And I suspect I'm not the only one, it's likely many readers do the same. But then, can we really say these MWOTs add much to anything?
It was short, rude and quite off-topic. I imagine the humour found in it is only applicable to those who agreed with its message. You skipped over Nari's posts, that's fine. Several others chose to respond to Nari. As discussion is presumably one of the goals of having a forum, Nari's posts have "added" plenty.
And in the same way, if you don't like Blastaar's posts disputing the relevance of such MWOTs, you are free to use that selfsame solution. No need for OrangePekoe to personally step in just to say shut up.
One of the unfortunate realities of being a mod is the expectation that I know and enforce the rules where I see them being violated. So I'm sorry, but your suggestion doesn't really work out in practice. In this instance, I would cite rules 1 and 9:
Being overly aggressive, insulting, or generally a jerk is against the rules.
Off-topic posting and conversation should generally be kept to a minimum...Users are encouraged to visit the Dynasty Cafe, where you will be able to talk about any subject you like.
The rules are always available for review and discussion here, and the Help thread is always open.