Forum › Liberty discussion

joined Jul 2, 2020

THIS BITCH HAS NO SYMPATHY FROM ME. THE FUCK AHHHHHHHHHHHHh

1461894977557
joined Jun 12, 2015

Every people react differently to what happens to them. It's not the objective circumstances that determine whether an event is traumatic, but the subjective, emotional experience of that event.

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Every people react differently to what happens to them. It's not the objective circumstances that determine whether an event is traumatic, but the subjective, emotional experience of that event.

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated--whether something could conceivably happen in real life is totally irrelevant to its credibility as a storytelling trope.

It's the job of the author to sell the audience on the idea that this event in the past is a plausible explanation for a specific character's behavior in the narrative present--the author has to make that "subjective, emotional" experience concrete in the pages of the text. That's what good writing is.

It's not up to the audience to explain away poor character motivations by handwaving at theoretical real-life possibilities.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins
joined Sep 6, 2015

Every people react differently to what happens to them. It's not the objective circumstances that determine whether an event is traumatic, but the subjective, emotional experience of that event.

I don't know how many times this needs to be repeated--whether something could conceivably happen in real life is totally irrelevant to its credibility as a storytelling trope.

It's the job of the author to sell the audience on the idea that this event in the past is a plausible explanation for a specific character's behavior in the narrative present--the author has to make that "subjective, emotional" experience concrete in the pages of the text. That's what good writing is.

It's not up to the audience to explain away poor character motivations by handwaving at theoretical real-life possibilities.

Exactly. Mundane things are commonplace, ordinary, because they happen all the time and to a lot of people, and most people have similar reactions. High school breakups are one of those things, and the vast majority of people do not end up emotionally scarred for life because of them.

So if you are going to have a high school breakup be the linchpin of your characterisation, specifically why the character in question is a borderline sociopath, then you better have some rather compelling in-depth explanation in the story for why this affected them so deeply. We are simply not given that here.

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 4:35PM

joined Jul 23, 2021

I just want to see more suffer for Liz

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 4:49PM

1461894977557
joined Jun 12, 2015

Chapter 6 pretty mach explained Liz. Being ditched buy "your one true love" and being told that "homosexual love isn't real" and dealing with "homophobia" can mentally destroy people. It's your problem if you don't buy this explenation. It's subjective.

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 5:04PM

Zigv3uyqlg0hih2ixcp8saivs99g-ehejzp51vcc89w
joined Feb 8, 2018

The struggle continues! See you all in 3 months :DDD

joined Aug 15, 2021

lol good! she didn't even cared she hurt Maki until she found out she was the side POS. cry harder

joined Aug 15, 2021

Why do I keep reading?

lol in my case, need to know how bad the trainwreck gets

Someroughclipping
joined Aug 28, 2019

lol good! she didn't even cared she hurt Maki until she found out she was the side POS. cry harder

This. She didn't realize she loved Maki, she realized her one true love can never truly love her so she's gonna settle with her second choice and the one who she thinks will never hurt her, Maki.

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 5:37PM

20220125_003513
joined Jan 30, 2013

Man I thought they finished this manga and I read this back when I was in highschool lol

10374935_1517148091919036_8454058064875083431_n
joined Apr 7, 2021

funny how new chapter dropped a few hours after Izumi Kitta announced her marriage lol

1532187299570
joined Dec 21, 2016

funny how new chapter dropped a few hours after Izumi Kitta announced her marriage lol

Yeah lol I didn't even know it was her birthday. Imagine my face when I found she also got married with an Italian.

joined Jun 6, 2021

It is slapped together because she is an inexperienced writer, this being literally her debut.

While she may get better with experience, other writers do well in their debut work. The question of talent versus incentive remains.

Not everyone does well in their debut works, so it is hardly an actual argument.

Nonsense. Most people do relatively well in their debut work. I'm not referring to attempted debuts, but to work that finds a publisher. Experience is neither necessary nor sufficient to explain ability, so lack of ability cannot be explained by lack of experience. Publishers can find sufficiently able writers without debuting bad writers who don't illustrate. The commercial publication of writing exhibiting lack of quality cannot be explained in terms of the lack of experience of the writer.

Plus, there is a facet of the incentive premise that you are not even considering.

Nope. But, before you get to the heart of your screw-up, we get some blah-blah-blah:

From what I remember from her interview (and it has been a long time since I read it, so I could be slightly off), she is basically having fun with this, mashing all her favourite yuri tropes. If her incentive for writing this is to simply have fun doing something she always wanted to do, she is pretty much fulfilling it. She is a voice actress, her career is not really hanging on this manga performing well, so the "incentive to get better" at writing might not even be there at all, or at least it might not be prevalent.

So far, that theory (which could have been expressed in one brief sentence) falls well within the scope of what I'd said.

You linked the writing problems to either a lack of competence or a lack of incentive in terms of readers demanding better storytelling.

To keep doing this, she needs a publisher.

Lack of competence is certainly a factor, it can not not be with someone who is not a professional writer and is basically doing this for the first time.

Not unless a publisher publishes it. And a publisher won't keep publishing it if the number of people buying the contents discernibly declines.

But the lack of incentive, in the way you presented it, is simply not a factor at all, in my opinion.

Your opinion absurdly imagines commercial publication as something else.

I do not think she would radically alter her course if some of the readers did rebel.

She'd have no choice but radical change of some sort. She'd have to abandon the work, or write better, or fund its publication herself. With money or sweet-talk, she'd have to persuade Momono Moto to keep drawing it, or find another artist, or draw it herself.

She is doing this for fun ​and is clearly not planning and mapping it out in excruciating detail beforehand.

So, given that her publisher puts-up with it because, for some reason, the readers put up with it, she doesn't have an incentive to do better. Get that all in your head at once.

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 7:29PM

White%20rose%20index
joined Aug 16, 2018

Actually, there's one cliche we haven't considered: Maki's ex is back! (The one who dumped her, came begging back, then ghosted her.)

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/liberty_ch16#4

We only see her in a chibi version, but the hair color, length, and bow are all there.

No trope unturned indeed.

You can actually see her in page 2 and 3. I keep thinking she's just a throwaway character they made just for cheap drama.

You're right--I wasn't paying enough attention to read that as a flashback scene that connected to the next conversation. She's even wearing the same outfit and scarf.

Then that means... the woman of mystery who's hugging Maki is ZORRA-CHAN???

I honestly had forgotten all about that character. Hoo boy. Maki's ex! Can't believe she's back.

funny how new chapter dropped a few hours after Izumi Kitta announced her marriage lol

Yeah lol I didn't even know it was her birthday. Imagine my face when I found she also got married with an Italian.

And... the gender of the spouse? Was it mentioned?

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 6:32PM

joined Nov 22, 2019

Actually, there's one cliche we haven't considered: Maki's ex is back! (The one who dumped her, came begging back, then ghosted her.)

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/liberty_ch16#4

We only see her in a chibi version, but the hair color, length, and bow are all there.

No trope unturned indeed.

You can actually see her in page 2 and 3. I keep thinking she's just a throwaway character they made just for cheap drama.

You're right--I wasn't paying enough attention to read that as a flashback scene that connected to the next conversation. She's even wearing the same outfit and scarf.

Then that means... the woman of mystery who's hugging Maki is ZORRA-CHAN???

I honestly had forgotten all about that character. Hoo boy. Can't believe she's back.

funny how new chapter dropped a few hours after Izumi Kitta announced her marriage lol

Yeah lol I didn't even know it was her birthday. Imagine my face when I found she also got married with an Italian.

And... the gender of the spouse? Was it mentioned?

Honestly, thats the question that makes or breaks everything for me. I thought she was just a lesbian who's not the best writer, but if she's a straight girl writing this that would generally make my blood boil.

Capturedsfdsss_x213
joined Mar 16, 2018


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNyseb6EGCA

Yeah, I absolutely love how this is the image she thinks of when she thinks of her and Maki
I'm kinda surprised that they didn't include those times Liz casually hit her

joined Nov 27, 2021

So we can choose between Liz, or Maki's cheating ex?
Amazing. :D

joined Apr 6, 2019

Consider for a moment that this series is one of Galette's flagship series, one of the only ones allowed to continue when the magazine was in rough shape due to covid and tightening budgets. Like you say, it's basically a VA having fun, and it sells books. Keeping an indie publisher afloat during the pandemic is an impressive debut no matter how you slice it.

It might be more interesting to speculate why the hell it manages to do it's job so well. Here's to another 5 years of it!!

It actually makes me very happy to know that five years from now I'll still get to visit this thread and read Blastaar's exquisitely written messages—explaining with subtle irony why Liberty is so terribly bad and how, after perusing chapter one hundred, they have confirmed once again that this manga is a torturous read and nobody should be subjected to it.

last edited at Nov 27, 2021 7:01PM

Img_0215
joined Jul 29, 2017

Consider for a moment that this series is one of Galette's flagship series, one of the only ones allowed to continue when the magazine was in rough shape due to covid and tightening budgets. Like you say, it's basically a VA having fun, and it sells books. Keeping an indie publisher afloat during the pandemic is an impressive debut no matter how you slice it.

It might be more interesting to speculate why the hell it manages to do it's job so well. Here's to another 5 years of it!!

It actually makes me very happy to know that five years from now I'll still get to visit this thread and read Blastaar's exquisitely written messages—explaining with subtle irony why Liberty is so terribly bad and how, after perusing chapter one hundred, they have confirmed once again that this manga is a torturous read and nobody should be subjected to it.

That thing I mentioned previously about being like "A member of the National Transportation Safety Board getting to watch a plane wreck happen in real time" is not entirely, or even mostly, a joke. For several reasons it's an opportunity I simply cannot pass up.

joined Jun 6, 2021

five years from now I'll still get to visit this thread and read Blastaar's exquisitely written messages—explaining with subtle irony why Liberty is so terribly bad and how, after perusing chapter one hundred, they have confirmed once again that this manga is a torturous read and nobody should be subjected to it.

Chapter 100 is not scheduled to appear until 2048.

10466e3de
joined Oct 25, 2014

Truly I don't understand people's hate for this series. Liz needs an arc!

The author started her with unprocessed baggage that's festered into a driving bitterness that leads to her hitting rock bottom by her own actions. To me it's more meaningful that she actually did a cruel, unjustified thing because of the scars of her previous relationship.

It seems that some people have designated her a "bad person" who doesn't deserve redemption or happiness out of some sense of punitive justice. I think she's a product of her environment and her own anxiety about being vulnerable. This doesn't justify her behavior, but it means that she's capable of being better.

I want to see her get better by realizing that not everyone she opens up to is going to hurt or abandon her. She can still fuck up and deserve happiness! She has to learn to do better by being hurt and seeing the consequences of her actions hurting others.

Except Liz is trying to go back with Maki only because her first choice ended up being a asshole. This isn't character growth. This is just Liz being a selfish piece of crap. Had she really learned from her mistakes, she would have left Maki move on from all this crap. If she really cared about Maki, she would get the hell away from her.

Bagpipe%20cute
joined Sep 27, 2017

Truly I don't understand people's hate for this series. Liz needs an arc!

The author started her with unprocessed baggage that's festered into a driving bitterness that leads to her hitting rock bottom by her own actions. To me it's more meaningful that she actually did a cruel, unjustified thing because of the scars of her previous relationship.

It seems that some people have designated her a "bad person" who doesn't deserve redemption or happiness out of some sense of punitive justice. I think she's a product of her environment and her own anxiety about being vulnerable. This doesn't justify her behavior, but it means that she's capable of being better.

I want to see her get better by realizing that not everyone she opens up to is going to hurt or abandon her. She can still fuck up and deserve happiness! She has to learn to do better by being hurt and seeing the consequences of her actions hurting others.

Except Liz is trying to go back with Maki only because her first choice ended up being a asshole. This isn't character growth. This is just Liz being a selfish piece of crap. Had she really learned from her mistakes, she would have left Maki move on from all this crap. If she really cared about Maki, she would get the hell away from her.

I feel like this series is one of those strange cases where the author somehow doesn't realize Liz is a self serving narcissistic asshole, even though it's incredibly obvious. Maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like her personality is going to be glossed over while she for some reason gets a supposed "happy ending" with Maki that she doesn't deserve.

Yuriprofilepiccropped
joined May 27, 2019

Except Liz is trying to go back with Maki only because her first choice ended up being a asshole. This isn't character growth. This is just Liz being a selfish piece of crap. Had she really learned from her mistakes, she would have left Maki move on from all this crap. If she really cared about Maki, she would get the hell away from her.

If Maki tells Liz to leave her alone or that she wants to move on, then Liz doing so would show growth. Given that she didn't, I think Liz coming to her with an apology and accepting Maki's response is better than just vanishing without any communication.

As to Liz being selfish or not, I think that Liz deserves to be happy. That shouldn't infringe on Maki's own right to happiness, but I don't think Liz shooting her shot for a second chance is morally reprehensible.

Images
joined Apr 9, 2017

Hi, guys does anyone know any similar Manga to Liberty?

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