Very good!
But...
I don't really think that the 'lolicon' tag fits here, shes not a minor after all, it is just appearance.

edit
also, why the moral discussion about this. I feel kinda triggered cause as myself i have this problem... but, really, some people just REALLY look very younger. They shouldn't be on a relationship or have sex because of this? They should wait until the wrinkles and white hair came for be social acceptable for them to have a life like any other adult just because of appearance? Their partner deserves to be judged and feel guilty for dating them?

fuck this.

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 12:32AM

yes

dating apps are indeed nice

Maann how i wish my dating app experience goes like this.

Also... Ok seriously people im asking here (pure asking) how can you be turned on when your 'soon to be partner' apperience look like she's at same age as your little sister (eventhough she's not)

UnappropriatedFox posted:

Very good!
But...
I don't really think that the 'lolicon' tag fits here, shes not a minor after all, it is just appearance.

Yeah, it's a valid point. I'll leave that question to the original uploaders though.

edit
also, why the moral discussion about this. I feel kinda triggered cause as myself i have this problem... but, really, some people just REALLY look very younger. They shouldn't be on a relationship or have sex because of this? They should wait until the wrinkles and white hair came for be social acceptable for them to have a life like any other adult just because of appearance? Their partner deserves to be judged and feel guilty for dating them?

fuck this.

I'm sorry. I know it's often difficult to face online discussion of topics that personally affect us, from people without the awareness to put empathy first. It is for me, anyway. But I looked at every comment here and to the extent there are people having a moral discussion, I think you're reading a little bit too much into it. Be well.

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 1:27AM

Also... Ok seriously people im asking here (pure asking) how can you be turned on when your 'soon to be partner' apperience look like she's at same age as your little sister (eventhough she's not)

She has nice skin, a pretty face, and naughty bits. And an attitude.
Why would that not be enough for a turn-on?
I've never been one to care a whole lot about tall vs. short, big boobs vs. small, slim vs. curvy--they can all be hot. Kind of academic for me nowadays being as how I've been married for many years, but yeah. I'd have the hots for my wife just as much if she had a different body type.

elevown posted:

Not to treat this ecchi one shot seriously lol- but imagine if you were tiny and looked like a loli ? Im guessing it would kinda suck in lots of ways trying to be taken seriously, and getting a decent GF might well be a lot harder if people couldnt see past that. I'd feel sorry for her.

That's literally the premise of this story... She was that desperate exactly, because nobody would take her seriously and everyone would run as soon as they saw her.

So I wonder what would I do- or YOU do- or most people- in a slightly more realistic version of this?
You meet and fall in love with a girl online over months playing an mmo together or whatever- then you meet or share pics at last- and she's a tiny cute loli type!

She proves she's in her early 20s- so not a real loli and legally all is fine but.. would most people's 'love' just fly away? Or could you adapt and get used to her looks? Obviously if you liked loli you'd be all 'I win at life!' but what if you were not?

Girigiri posted:

Also... Ok seriously people im asking here (pure asking) how can you be turned on when your 'soon to be partner' apperience look like she's at same age as your little sister (eventhough she's not)

I find those question all sorts of wrong, because it sounds like the only reason you would hesitate to outright love her is because of some perceived moralness of the whole thing. Like because liking children is immoral, liking someone who looks like a child would give you similar immoral feeling, hence you're feeling like you're committing a sin or something. Exactly the reason why she had to avoid showing her photos and finding someone on dating app, because all other "normal" people would run away before she could even explain herself. Good thing that being moral leads to hurting innocent people who had audacity to not be born "normal". I thought the whole issue with dating children was that they're not mature enough to give consent and make informed decision, so if she's over 18, what's the problem?

OrangePekoe posted:

UnappropriatedFox posted:

Very good!
But...
I don't really think that the 'lolicon' tag fits here, shes not a minor after all, it is just appearance.

Yeah, it's a valid point. I'll leave that question to the original uploaders though.

I feel like the tag was to warn people who don't like loli stuff, even if it technically isn't? Which imo was warranted as we got few people who still expressed dislike of this work despite Older than she looks tag exactly, because she looks like a loli.

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 6:14AM

...I don't get this. Couldn't she just, like, make her username "Small Adult Woman"??

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 7:49AM

Page 3 goes from 0 to 1000mph. Phew, my body was not ready for that.

I wonder if there's anymore.

@Nevri I agree its wrong to judge her or someone she dated because of her looks- I dont think my question was wrong tbh- I was only asking what would MOST people really do? And unfortunately in RL i feel as though many- most? would run from her. I dont think i would on thinking about it- but i would for sure feel wierd about it at first at least.

And then also i was wondering on the aspect of - even if you fell in 'love' prior to meeting- to be in a relationship we DO have to be attracted to the other person- and if you wasn't because they look young and innocent, and maybe your type is normally older mature women, then its probably not gonna work out right? and its not because you judged them as though they were a child. But on the other hand maybe such preferances fall away if you already got to know and like them online?

And because we know unfortunately a lot of people WOULD call someone who dated them a lolicon etc I feel some people would chicken out of dating her just because of fear of that- which would suck.

I was just wondering how it would play out in RL for most people- I never said it was RIGHT to think of her or someone dating her like that.

And I know the story was litterally about that- but it didnt go into the trouble it would cause in daily life- like being taken seriously at work etc - and i was wondering about it in RL.

Anyway i'll leave it there. I would actually like to see a series of these 2- tho a bit less ero heavy and more about their relationship and daily lives etc.

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 9:56AM

I'm sorry. I know it's often difficult to face online discussion of topics that personally affect us, from people without the awareness to put empathy first. It is for me, anyway. But I looked at every comment here and to the extent there are people having a moral discussion, I think you're reading a little bit too much into it. Be well.

i'm sorry too, it was a friday night alone and tired and i let the rage run out. typed something way more aggressive that i would want because of some types of comments

Also... Ok seriously people im asking here (pure asking) how can you be turned on when your 'soon to be partner' apperience look like she's at same age as your little sister (eventhough she's not)

well, that kinda of comment

There’s something weird that goes on in these conversations about “looking like a loli.” Not in the manga, because “looks” are all that exist in visuals. But I’ve known any number of small women who weren’t very big in the bust or hips, and whose skin was remarkably unlined for their age, but they didn’t seem like children because, you know—they weren’t. They may have appeared considerably younger than they were, but their affect (their way of speaking, the way they carried themselves) was that of an adult.

Nuances of personal affect are notoriously hard to communicate using only static visuals and written dialogue, and manga often exploit that for comedic (or sometimes just shocking) effect, which raises these “what if it were real life?” concerns. But unless a person in real life is literally masquerading as a child or young teenager, it’s usually not much of an issue.

last edited at Oct 30, 2021 4:10PM

elevown posted:

I dont think my question was wrong tbh- I was only asking what would MOST people really do? And unfortunately in RL i feel as though many- most? would run from her. I dont think i would on thinking about it- but i would for sure feel wierd about it at first at least.

And my issue is that why that kind of question is even necessary? It only reminds me that we life in society that value being "normal" more than anything else. As long as you fit into this vague feeling of "normal" everything is great and you can enjoy your life without problems, but as soon as you don't then suddenly you're "weird" or "different" and everyone is making fun of you or avoiding you or both.

You asked what most people would do, but the real meaning you were getting on was what "normal" people would do. And my answer to that is "why should I care?" It doesn't matter what "normal" people would do. It matters what I or you would do.

I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I'm sick and fed up with people getting triggered about anything that is even slightly related to loli stuff and those questions sounded dangerously similar to the whole moral conundrum so many people love to make their hill to die on. I really feel like I got born in wrong year, hell probably in wrong timeline altogether, because I'm way more understanding over most things than "normal" people are, so all their moral etc. arguments just fly past my head, because I simply approach it with FACTS and LOGIC, something those people clearly aren't capable of doing, since they prefer to base all their believes on their gut feelings and what is common sense to them. I don't give a fuck about tradition or norms, especially if all they're doing is hurting innocent people.

And then also i was wondering on the aspect of - even if you fell in 'love' prior to meeting- to be in a relationship we DO have to be attracted to the other person- and if you wasn't because they look young and innocent, and maybe your type is normally older mature women, then its probably not gonna work out right? and its not because you judged them as though they were a child. But on the other hand maybe such preferences fall away if you already got to know and like them online?

First of all. You can be in relationship with someone without feeling sexual attraction to them. Asexual people exist. Secondly, there is difference between feeling attracted to someone and loving them. You might initially feel attracted to someone, but then once first rush of hormones lowers, you won't feel as strongly about them (well, unless they're just that hot stare). So the same is true in reverse, you can have no attraction to someone initially, but then after you bond with them and fall for them for real, you can start to find them attractive, not because you find them inherently hot, but because it's them, so of course you find them attractive.

A example from my personal life. I had a friend that I wasn't attracted to at all. After I knew her for few years, one day I just suddenly started feeling attraction to her and realized I had fallen in love with her. She was chubby. Before I never found that sexy or anything, but now I thought it was charming. Even after we parted ways I still have a soft spot for chubby people because of it. So yes. I believe that if you truly fallen for someone you might find them attractive regardless and all your experiences will probably affect your taste one way or another. Not sure how it'd work exactly with meeting someone online, before you see them for the first time, but I believe if you already know their personality and you like them, it wouldn't take long for you to fall for their body as well.

And I know the story was litterally about that- but it didnt go into the trouble it would cause in daily life- like being taken seriously at work etc - and i was wondering about it in RL.

Anyway i'll leave it there. I would actually like to see a series of these 2- tho a bit less ero heavy and more about their relationship and daily lives etc.

Yea. It was short porn, so obviously it didn't go too much into that stuff or show it. It could be interesting to write a story exploring that, I'll give you that.

I'm kind of tired of these discussions but I'm a compulsive dumbass and I can't help but want to say something.

1) As a general rule it's always important to ask yourself, "do I think this thing is immoral and reprehensible because it is causing harm to other people, or because I see it as gross or distasteful?" It's not always an easy question but it's an incredibly important one because feeling like they're on the side of morality can make people very bold, and that can have terrible consequences when conviction runs counter to human well-being. At the same time, letting terrible acts go unchallenged is also very bad. In short, it's something to put thought into, and knee-jerk reactions can be worse than unhelpful.

2) Real life child porn is obviously and inarguably reprehensible because the damage it does to its real-life subjects cannot be outweighed by any other consideration. The issue of depicting fictional underage people as objects of desire in media is open to discussion at all only because it doesn't require the harming of real children for its creation.

3) For an excellent discussion of why it can still be bad to depict fictional underage or child-coded characters as objects of desire even when no children are directly being harmed, see this excellent video. It make sense for this to be the subject of controversy.

4) Of particular concern in this case is the issue that, media that sexually depicts fictional children or child-coded characters can cause people to become less negative towards pedophilia by obscuring the reasons why it is so harmful. I think that, for the most part, when stories slap on, "this person is actually of age actually," it is essentially just self-justifying, and trying to deflect moral concerns, and does little to no real moral work; in fact, it can contribute to the problems I've mentioned by reducing the issue to a question of numbers, which hides the concerns of mental/emotional development, knowledge, and power dynamics that ground the inability of children to validly consent. Consequently, I think the more the story credibly addresses the things that make pedophilia harmful and separates the scenario it depicts from the scenario of an adult raping or grooming a child rather than sweeping them under the rug, the less harmful it can becomes.

As far as my opinion on this particular manga, I'm aligned with UnappropriatedFox and Nevri's points in a lot of ways. Honoka is introduced as an adult, and when it is made clear she looks like a child, the author wrote her with a developed and insightful set of concerns that an adult who people thinks looks like a child would have. She has her ID prepared because she knows how this goes, she's anxious about another partner leaving her because of how she looks because she has experience with that happening, and she casually mentions working from home. Her situation is addressed remarkably thoughtfully in the space it has in this porn manga, the author going the extra mile to not just nominally call her an adult but to show that she is, in fact, an adult with a fully developed brain, independence, an understanding of sexuality, and the ability to give valid consent. The manga even ends with a (frankly pretty cute) mature discussion of their relationship issues and needs that develops organically into them going out. Within the story's world, she is actually treated as an adult: it's not merely nominal.

Of course, that leaves the question of why she has to look like a kid in the first place. Yes, given Wakadori Nikomi's other work this is probably a case of author appeal and it's possible that the character was ultimately created this way because the author is attracted to kids, but I think any potential issue that might come from depicting a child-like body as an object of desire is strongly outweighed by the real good that this story does. By depicting Honoka as an adult with care and, critically, in a way that feels human and true to life (through those little details I mentioned), and the MC as someone able to overcome her reservations and treat her appropriately as an adult sexual partner and give love to her body, the author is able to actually represent an aspect of the human experience. Yes, it's porn, but it's porn that says, "it's okay to look like this. People can still love and desire you," and even if that's incidental it touches on people's real-world experiences and insecurities. As a trans person I know how valuable and healing it can be to have media that depicts you and says, yeah, you're allowed to be sexual, and your body is valid and desirable.

So yes. This isn't a, "she's actually 7000 years old!" scenario. It's not distorting people's thinking surrounding pedophilia. If anything, it sharpens that lens by showing that it's the mental development and power-related concerns that make pedophilia harmful, not the appearance of the person's body.

Linterdiction posted:

3) For an excellent discussion of why it can still be bad to depict fictional underage or child-coded characters as objects of desire even when no children are directly being harmed, see this excellent video. It make sense for this to be the subject of controversy.

This was surprisingly good watch, though my personal views on what does and doesn't count as sexualization of children are different and I disagree what makes it bad, but that's not conversation for this thread. Agree with everything else you wrote in your post though.

I'm under 4'10 (~147 cm) and am regularly told that I look like a child and this silly one-shot has got me depressed and wishing that literally anyone would take me seriously. Feelsbad :(

it kinda looks like prostitution would fit here, given the phone conversation before

Atlantae posted:

I'm under 4'10 (~147 cm) and am regularly told that I look like a child and this silly one-shot has got me depressed and wishing that literally anyone would take me seriously. Feelsbad :(

hugs

I just wanted Chris Hansen to answer the door and say: "Why don't you have a seat over here?"

Yes, I know she's not a real loli, but it would be hilarious watching the MC try to talk her way out of it.

@Nevri 'I didn't mean to sound harsh, but I'm sick and fed up with people getting triggered about anything that is even slightly related to loli stuff..'

I wasn't remotely triggered tho- the loli age_gap stuff is just about my favourite lol. I really enjoy most loli tagged stuff (except a few that are too extreme- like softcharm stuff), so im not even slightly bothered by a character who just looks young but isnt.

Sorry if i triggered you, I was just mildly curious about what the general view would be- i dont care at all about what is normal or not - I certainly wouldnt judge someone on this.
And I know asexual people exist- i didnt think i needed to point out an obvious exception I wouldnt be asking about.

last edited at Nov 1, 2021 2:34AM

...I don't get this. Couldn't she just, like, make her username "Small Adult Woman"??

...you think people take username seriously online?

anw, well said @Linterdiction. I hope people will read your comment before asking any more question about the morality of this one shot.

...I don't get this. Couldn't she just, like, make her username "Small Adult Woman"??

...you think people take username seriously online?

anw, well said @Linterdiction. I hope people will read your comment before asking any more question about the morality of this one shot.

Except nobody did that in the first place. The only people bringing up morality were those who felt attacked by questions such as elevown's, but the questions themselves were more geared towards physical attraction than anything to do with morals.

"Would you be physically attracted to someone who literally looks like a child" was basically the gist of it, and most people would indeed answer "no", not because of morality, but simply... because they are not attracted to those looks. It is the same logic as with a very mature looking 12-year-old who can basically pass as a freshman at college (rare but not unheard of). They would be a child, but one that would not interest paedophiles while they would be physically attractive to regular people. So while in such a case it would be absolutely wrong for an adult to do anything with them, the physical attraction would be understandable.

Basically, what I am saying is that physical attraction is physical attraction and morality is morality. They are separate issues. An adult doing anything sexual with a child is very wrong, but not because of aesthetics.

The character in this doujin is an adult, morality was never really an argument here.

They may have appeared considerably younger than they were, but their affect (their way of speaking, the way they carried themselves) was that of an adult.
But unless a person in real life is literally masquerading as a child or young teenager, it’s usually not much of an issue.

Disagree, because while it is exceedingly rare for an adult to actually look like a small child, there are plenty of people who are mistaken for teenagers (I should know, as just a few weeks ago someone mistook me for a 17-year-old, when I am 31 actually). It can suck, it can cause people to dismiss you, and it can definitely cause even people younger than you to not be interested in you, either because they like more mature looks or they just think they are risking jail time by tangling with you.

As for the affect argument, that also falls short for me. I have known plenty of very studious, very serious and mature teenagers, and I know plenty of exceedingly childish and immature adults, both in their thinking and mannerisms, so judging someone's age based on that is by no means a reliable method.

This was amazhing!! Needs anime adaptation! If Isekai cheat mashitian can have one then so can this, hands down!!!!

They may have appeared considerably younger than they were, but their affect (their way of speaking, the way they carried themselves) was that of an adult.
But unless a person in real life is literally masquerading as a child or young teenager, it’s usually not much of an issue.

Disagree, because while it is exceedingly rare for an adult to actually look like a small child, there are plenty of people who are mistaken for teenagers (I should know, as just a few weeks ago someone mistook me for a 17-year-old, when I am 31 actually).

This is changing the terms of the argument, though--the issue is not "teenagers" per se, but "children," granting that very young teenagers can look like children (as I did myself, until the fullness of puberty). And as to affect, I'm not talking about mistakes made at first sight or after a brief conversation, but upon getting to know someone--physically small adults, even ones who can be taken as much younger than their chronological age, simply do not resemble children.

They may have appeared considerably younger than they were, but their affect (their way of speaking, the way they carried themselves) was that of an adult.
But unless a person in real life is literally masquerading as a child or young teenager, it’s usually not much of an issue.

Disagree, because while it is exceedingly rare for an adult to actually look like a small child, there are plenty of people who are mistaken for teenagers (I should know, as just a few weeks ago someone mistook me for a 17-year-old, when I am 31 actually).

This is changing the terms of the argument, though--the issue is not "teenagers" per se, but "children," granting that very young teenagers can look like children (as I did myself, until the fullness of puberty). And as to affect, I'm not talking about mistakes made at first sight or after a brief conversation, but upon getting to know someone--physically small adults, even ones who can be taken as much younger than their chronological age, simply do not resemble children.

My mistake, I did not read too deeply into the "young" descriptor you stipulated for teenagers. And that was pretty much what I was going at here, since I agree that it is very, very rare for adults to resemble actual children (I am avoiding using the word "impossible" because there are always rare exceptions), both in terms of looks and in terms of behaviour. But when you expanded that on teenagers, I disagreed.

And although I now realise that was not what you were driving at (with the present clear stipulation you were talking about resembling actual kids first and foremost), when it comes to people who can physically pass as teenagers, I still disagree with the affect argument. It is definitely true in a lot of cases, but just looking at my own past interactions with people I can also see it is anything but a firm rule.