Fuck, I would never condone torture in real life, of any kind, on anyone. I've heard the excuse "it's okay to like it, because it's not real" several times, mostly applied to loli. I would say instead - I only like this BECAUSE it's not real. Seeing people mixing reality into it, somehow, makes me feel really sad. Ugh, I guess I'm still to weak to handle the internet.

Fuck, I would never condone torture in real life, of any kind, on anyone. I've heard the excuse "it's okay to like it, because it's not real" several times, mostly applied to loli. I would say instead - I only like this BECAUSE it's not real. Seeing people mixing reality into it, somehow, makes me feel really sad. Ugh, I guess I'm still to weak to handle the internet.

Your're right. Not only is it fiction, it's clearly not intended seriously, so we shouldn't read to much into it. But while reading this I found myself thinking "You'll end up killing someone." And from her comments about using fire and the censored image, I wondered if she'd already killed someone. (I'm sure that in the story line that's not so.) And so I had to say something. Sorry about that.

how long will the MC be the "strainght man" of the plot ?
i'm sure she has a background story, and i'm curious

man, why do I keep reading this, all it does is make me uncomfortable. think I'm gonna drop this from now

I think some people take this manga way too seriously. I mean, we saw things way worse than some cute girl joking around in a torture club that is, so far more like a bdsm club. The only actual torture so far was kind of glossed over and followed by yet another joke.

There are mangas about actual murderer, canibals, graphic violence and torture, some crazy shit out there, I'm kind of surprise this one seems to actually make people uncomfortable when it's not treated in all seriousness and in a comedic way.

I'd have been uncomfortable if the torture scenes were more gritty or something and depicted more seriously or "realistically".

she's holding a kyuubey doll..

There are also Hisui and Kohaku =))

I think some people take this manga way too seriously. I mean, we saw things way worse than some cute girl joking around in a torture club that is, so far more like a bdsm club. The only actual torture so far was kind of glossed over and followed by yet another joke.

There are mangas about actual murderer, canibals, graphic violence and torture, some crazy shit out there, I'm kind of surprise this one seems to actually make people uncomfortable when it's not treated in all seriousness and in a comedic way.

I'd have been uncomfortable if the torture scenes were more gritty or something and depicted more seriously or "realistically".

Honestly, I think the way it's treated lightheartedly and not at all serious makes me more uncomfortable, not less. If it was a gruesome psychological horror about a popular and openly-recognised high school torture club that kidnaps a freshman girl and uses a mixture of violence and sex appeal to indoctrinate her into becoming a regular member? I might still be disturbed by the setting and the premise, but that would be tonally consistent with the intended genre. It would be horrifying, but the fact that it's presented as horrifying means that me, the author, and the story are all playing by the same rules.

When something horrifying happens in a lighthearted ero-comedy, I'm not just disturbed by what happens in the story itself, I'm also having to deal with it as an created object that exists in the real world. I start thinking about how I react and relate to the issue in reality, at which point I'm not just thinking about imaginary play-torture, but actual torture as well, and the way it's discussed among real people. If it's not something you've ever thought about, it's understandably easy to treat it lightly, but I think recent events have made a lot more personal for many people, as they come to grips with the idea that these horrible things were done (and may still be done right now) in our name and ostensibly for our sake.

When something objectively awful happens within the story, but the real-life book treats it as if I'm supposed to enjoy watching it, a sense of dissonance and alienation is created between me, the story, the author, even the rest of the audience. This can be amazingly useful for all sorts of storytelling purposes - Dowman Saiman in particular makes excellent use of this effect, leveraging the readers' uncertainty and discomfort to make a punchline more explosive, or to sharpen a moment of personal sentimentality. The problem this manga has is that it's too weak and low-key to effectively handle the sheer weight of its subject matter.

Looking at it, it fits the exact same formula as the dozens of stories about racy crossdressing clubs and the unconvincing tsukkomi of boys who don't want to admit how much they're into it. But it's not the same. It can't be. The stakes are completely different, the history isn't comparable at all - it's like following a cookie recipe word-for-word, but instead of chocolate chips, you swap in an equivalent amount of lego blocks. You haven't made an unconventional flavour of cookie. They don't even count as cookies anymore. You've made something that's largely inedible and stinks of melted plastic. You could have made cookies, or you could have built something with the lego, but by trying to mash the two together without meaningfully considering how the two are different, you end up with neither.

There's a really good manga to be written about a high school torture club comprised of SM lesbians that constantly skirts the line between kinky excitement and inhumane horror while maintaining a lighthearted and mildly sexy atmosphere. This isn't it.

And yes, if anyone might be wondering, I do feel appropriately embarrassed about spending this much time being weirdly serious about a dumb manga. I do not make good decisions. Thank you.

I think some people take this manga way too seriously. I mean, we saw things way worse than some cute girl joking around in a torture club that is, so far more like a bdsm club. The only actual torture so far was kind of glossed over and followed by yet another joke.

There are mangas about actual murderer, canibals, graphic violence and torture, some crazy shit out there, I'm kind of surprise this one seems to actually make people uncomfortable when it's not treated in all seriousness and in a comedic way.

I'd have been uncomfortable if the torture scenes were more gritty or something and depicted more seriously or "realistically".

Honestly, I think the way it's treated lightheartedly and not at all serious makes me more uncomfortable, not less. If it was a gruesome psychological horror about a popular and openly-recognised high school torture club that kidnaps a freshman girl and uses a mixture of violence and sex appeal to indoctrinate her into becoming a regular member? I might still be disturbed by the setting and the premise, but that would be tonally consistent with the intended genre. It would be horrifying, but the fact that it's presented as horrifying means that me, the author, and the story are all playing by the same rules.

When something horrifying happens in a lighthearted ero-comedy, I'm not just disturbed by what happens in the story itself, I'm also having to deal with it as an created object that exists in the real world. I start thinking about how I react and relate to the issue in reality, at which point I'm not just thinking about imaginary play-torture, but actual torture as well, and the way it's discussed among real people. If it's not something you've ever thought about, it's understandably easy to treat it lightly, but I think recent events have made a lot more personal for many people, as they come to grips with the idea that these horrible things were done (and may still be done right now) in our name and ostensibly for our sake.

When something objectively awful happens within the story, but the real-life book treats it as if I'm supposed to enjoy watching it, a sense of dissonance and alienation is created between me, the story, the author, even the rest of the audience. This can be amazingly useful for all sorts of storytelling purposes - Dowman Saiman in particular makes excellent use of this effect, leveraging the readers' uncertainty and discomfort to make a punchline more explosive, or to sharpen a moment of personal sentimentality. The problem this manga has is that it's too weak and low-key to effectively handle the sheer weight of its subject matter.

Looking at it, it fits the exact same formula as the dozens of stories about racy crossdressing clubs and the unconvincing tsukkomi of boys who don't want to admit how much they're into it. But it's not the same. It can't be. The stakes are completely different, the history isn't comparable at all - it's like following a cookie recipe word-for-word, but instead of chocolate chips, you swap in an equivalent amount of lego blocks. You haven't made an unconventional flavour of cookie. They don't even count as cookies anymore. You've made something that's largely inedible and stinks of melted plastic. You could have made cookies, or you could have built something with the lego, but by trying to mash the two together without meaningfully considering how the two are different, you end up with neither.

There's a really good manga to be written about a high school torture club comprised of SM lesbians that constantly skirts the line between kinky excitement and inhumane horror while maintaining a lighthearted and mildly sexy atmosphere. This isn't it.

And yes, if anyone might be wondering, I do feel appropriately embarrassed about spending this much time being weirdly serious about a dumb manga. I do not make good decisions. Thank you.

Hello :)

^ T H I S !

That is exactly, what I wanted to say/wrote, but My English is not good enough to wrap it in so wise full words !

I read Uziga, necro (Game of Thrones has it), Wolfsmund, scat, bestiality, and some other weird, fictional or based on reality SHIT! But it is taken that subjects hard and real. Not making tortures, humiliation, rape, (hentai logic), like nothing is happening, and everything is all right, and everybody are happy! Especially 10 years old TRAP! Because, You know, statistically speaking 9 / 10 peoples are enjoying gang rape and tortures! But what about this one on receiving end?

Kudos to You :)

Eh, but I still rather read this slight awkward kinky manga than some real shit by author that treat people like shit on their manga.

This is a gag manga, is made for the laughs, it knows what it is. Clearly not for it to be taken seriously, neither does it deliver any kind of hidden message.

It is simple, if you find the topic it uses for comedy uncomfortable I suggest you move on cuz it will just be more of the same.

This is a gag manga, is made for the laughs, it knows what it is. Clearly not for it to be taken seriously, neither does it deliver any kind of hidden message.

It is simple, if you find the topic it uses for comedy uncomfortable I suggest you move on cuz it will just be more of the same.

... Did You even read what You wrote?

From what are You laughing reading this manga... From tortures? From 10 years old trap chained to the wheel and drowned in the pool?

Like bullies laughing from their victim being flushed in toiled with pants down? Nice... Clap... Clap... Clap...

So next time maybe everybody will laughs from rapes, murders, humiliation, pedophiles, wars, tortures, bestiality, scat, crucifixions, public executions... Choose Your subject of fun :) Why not :) Like in Roman Empire: "Bred and Games".

Just understood, that there are subjects, which can not be treating lightly! Because reality is far more worse, then some fiction, and evil is evil, does not matter that it have a sweet cookies! And We live in times, where evil is treated like a "style of living".

... Did You even read what You wrote?

From what are You laughing reading this manga... From tortures? From 10 years old trap chained to the wheel and drowned in the pool?

Like bullies laughing from their victim being flushed in toiled with pants down? Nice... Clap... Clap... Clap...

So next time maybe everybody will laughs from rapes, murders, humiliation, pedophiles, wars, tortures, bestiality, scat, crucifixions, public executions... Choose Your subject of fun :) Why not :) Like in Roman Empire: "Bred and Games".

Just understood, that there are subjects, which can not be treating lightly! Because reality is far more worse, then some fiction, and evil is evil, does not matter that it have a sweet cookies! And We live in times, where evil is treated like a "style of living".

you said

I read Uziga, necro (Game of Thrones has it), Wolfsmund, scat, bestiality, and some other weird, fictional or based on reality SHIT!

and actually have problem with this manga???

last edited at Dec 17, 2014 12:36PM

... Did You even read what You wrote?

From what are You laughing reading this manga... From tortures? From 10 years old trap chained to the wheel and drowned in the pool?

Like bullies laughing from their victim being flushed in toiled with pants down? Nice... Clap... Clap... Clap...

So next time maybe everybody will laughs from rapes, murders, humiliation, pedophiles, wars, tortures, bestiality, scat, crucifixions, public executions... Choose Your subject of fun :) Why not :) Like in Roman Empire: "Bred and Games".

Just understood, that there are subjects, which can not be treating lightly! Because reality is far more worse, then some fiction, and evil is evil, does not matter that it have a sweet cookies! And We live in times, where evil is treated like a "style of living".

you said

I read Uziga, necro (Game of Thrones has it), Wolfsmund, scat, bestiality, and some other weird, fictional or based on reality SHIT!

and actually have problem with this manga???

:)

Yes I read Uziga... I was interested in Junko Furuta case. And as I mentioned other SHIT. But as I wrote those at least do not try to wrap SHIT in sugar cotton aka candy-floss :) And this manga clearly do that. And those subjects mentioned by Me are not subjects for making "FUN" with it.

Ech, My rusted English... :/

last edited at Dec 17, 2014 12:50PM

This is a gag manga, is made for the laughs, it knows what it is. Clearly not for it to be taken seriously, neither does it deliver any kind of hidden message.

It is simple, if you find the topic it uses for comedy uncomfortable I suggest you move on cuz it will just be more of the same.

... Did You even read what You wrote?

From what are You laughing reading this manga... From tortures? From 10 years old trap chained to the wheel and drowned in the pool?

Like bullies laughing from their victim being flushed in toiled with pants down? Nice... Clap... Clap... Clap...

So next time maybe everybody will laughs from rapes, murders, humiliation, pedophiles, wars, tortures, bestiality, scat, crucifixions, public executions... Choose Your subject of fun :) Why not :) Like in Roman Empire: "Bred and Games".

Just understood, that there are subjects, which can not be treating lightly! Because reality is far more worse, then some fiction, and evil is evil, does not matter that it have a sweet cookies! And We live in times, where evil is treated like a "style of living".

People laugh about crucifications since 1979. Pedophiles are the source of comedy in countless manga and anime. Murders are made fun off all the time, just pick up Deathpool or Murcielago or something. Rape is the number one joke material in like 50% of all Ecchis. Wars are played off as something minor or even fun in pretty much every Action Comedy. And humiliation is the only thing that WataMote is about.

Anyways, comparing laughing about a torture manga to having death games is pretty far off.

If you wanna get all serious about every little inappropiate joke then that's fine but you can't expect everybody to do the same thing. Again, Haruka going crazy over little children in Kanamemo is not the same as actual people being pedophiles. You either think it's funny or it's not but you shouldn't make it bigger than it is.

This is a gag manga, is made for the laughs, it knows what it is. Clearly not for it to be taken seriously, neither does it deliver any kind of hidden message.

It is simple, if you find the topic it uses for comedy uncomfortable I suggest you move on cuz it will just be more of the same.

... Did You even read what You wrote?

From what are You laughing reading this manga... From tortures? From 10 years old trap chained to the wheel and drowned in the pool?

Like bullies laughing from their victim being flushed in toiled with pants down? Nice... Clap... Clap... Clap...

So next time maybe everybody will laughs from rapes, murders, humiliation, pedophiles, wars, tortures, bestiality, scat, crucifixions, public executions... Choose Your subject of fun :) Why not :) Like in Roman Empire: "Bred and Games".

Just understood, that there are subjects, which can not be treating lightly! Because reality is far more worse, then some fiction, and evil is evil, does not matter that it have a sweet cookies! And We live in times, where evil is treated like a "style of living".

People laugh about crucifications since 1979. Pedophiles are the source of comedy in countless manga and anime. Murders are made fun off all the time, just pick up Deathpool or Murcielago or something. Rape is the number one joke material in like 50% of all Ecchis. Wars are played off as something minor or even fun in pretty much every Action Comedy. And humiliation is the only thing that WataMote is about.

Anyways, comparing laughing about a torture manga to having death games is pretty far off.

If you wanna get all serious about every little inappropiate joke then that's fine but you can't expect everybody to do the same thing. Again, Haruka going crazy over little children in Kanamemo is not the same as actual people being pedophiles. You either think it's funny or it's not but you shouldn't make it bigger than it is.

^ This.

This manga makes jokes, I find them funny, no matter the subject.

Bullies, murders, pedophiles, etc, etc, it's all been done in comedies. They are comedies, get all sensitive and sensational about the matter if you want, that will not change the fact that many find these sort of things hilarious. Are they monsters for doing so? Of course not, they take it for what it is presented as: Comedy. They also are aware of the fact that reality is not the same as what is portrayed in these.

last edited at Dec 17, 2014 2:02PM

This manga makes jokes, I find them funny, no matter the subject.

Nez Note: So far we haven't gotten into "You're a terrible person for enjoying this" and I'd rather we didn't. Same goes for assuming people are saying that.

Be cool, folks.

Although I personally haven't reached the point where reading this manga makes me uncomfortable, I can definitely see where you guys are coming from. I've tried reading/watching Imocho before and really couldn't stomach how they tried to play the situation as a comedy when I didn't find it funny at all, and this is from a person who usually doesn't make a big deal of incest in the 2D world.

So yeah, I won't try to convince anyone to read this manga if they've reached that point, but if it reassures you, reading this won't change my opinion on real life torture.

last edited at Dec 17, 2014 2:59PM

I like the yuri in this manga.

incest in the 2D world.

I too enjoy Elsanna

Let be honest, if you don't feel uncomfortable about the torture topic, you won't feel the comedy part funny.The key ingredient in slap stick humour is the draw in contrast between the person who do the gig and the content of the joke. Highschool girls vs torture hobby in this manga

For example, one of Jimmy Carr joke:
"My girlfriend told me that she can no longer continue our relationship because people said that i am a fking pedophile. I answered: 'Watch your mouth, that is some big word you are throwing out for a 10 years old'".

It's funny because we know that Jimmy Carr is an upright citizen and a comedian. Imagine a convicted pedophiles say the same lines, won't feel as funny isn't it?

last edited at Dec 18, 2014 10:07AM

For example, one of Jimmy Carr joke:
"My girlfriend told me that she can no longer continue our relationship because people said that i am a fking pedophile. I answered: 'Watch your mouth, that is some big word you are throwing out for a 10 years old'".

It's funny because we know that Jimmy Carr is an upright citizen and a comedian. Imagine a convicted pedophiles say the same lines, won't feel as funny isn't it?

Actually, given how many popular entertainers have been revealed as awful people (Bill Cosby, Bill Murray, Jian Ghomeshi, etc.) these days, that actually comes off as kinda creepy.

Actually, given how many popular entertainers have been revealed as awful people (Bill Cosby, Bill Murray, Jian Ghomeshi, etc.) these days, that actually comes off as kinda creepy.

What happened with Bill Murray?

And in any case, I believe that whatever someone does on his/her personal life shouldn't influence in out enjoyment of his/her work.

Actually, given how many popular entertainers have been revealed as awful people (Bill Cosby, Bill Murray, Jian Ghomeshi, etc.) these days, that actually comes off as kinda creepy.

What happened with Bill Murray?

Domestic violence, infidelity and substance abuse, from what I've heard. Yes, not as bad as Mike Tyson or Gary Oldman, but not great all the same.

And in any case, I believe that whatever someone does on his/her personal life shouldn't influence in out enjoyment of his/her work.

Well yes, it's quite possible to be a fan of problematic things, but I think entirely ignoring the problematic side is a bad move too. Like going to see Ender's Game, knowing that it enriches a guy who uses the money he gets to campaign against gays.

In a case like this, it's entirely possible to enjoy the very over the top setup, even while recognizing that these are some of the most horrible things possible in real life and the justification Aoi gives in chapter 6 (getting info on a bombing) is 100% BS in the real world. Her leap in logic and the "wait, what?" reaction are the funny part, while the (hypothetical) torture remains something to justifiably be squeamish about.

As long you can keep the distances between the fictional setting and the real you´re fine. And if we´re completely frank, nowadays you can enjoy things without geveing a single buck to the creators making that argument a moot point.