Just found this series today, it's so fun! As a bi who enjoys all flavors of LGBT content I appreciate manga that feature both BL and GL

How did you get into relationships with creators. Did you ever get face to face with them? YOU HAVE TO TELL ME THIS SOUNDS SO INTERESTING!!!

You can meet most of them at conventions usually, and occasionally viewing parties depending on fandom.

Ignoring the fact that nowadays people quickly learn the meaning of the word fujoshi through pop-cultural osmosis, BL stan sounds like a surprisingly good localization.

So I looked up 尊い and it seems it sounds like "tōtoi" (toh-oh-toy) and means "precious" just like the tlr said.

But I have never heard anyone say toh-oh-toy in any anime or tv drama I watched. "Moe" sure, all the time, but toh-oh-toy never.
Gotta be a really niche thing, like fujoshi speak for cool boys and BL? Either that or it's way unusual in everyday talk. I wonder if it's more common in manga? Like that one chapter of Yuru Oyako where Yuuki explains "precious" to Sayaka and then Sayaka calls Yuuki precious, I wonder if it was 尊い they were talking about?

As far as I know, it's recent-ish otaku slang (I especially see it a lot among BL/yuri fans), so you'll probably see it more in manga (at least for now). The term was what the Yuru Oyako chapter was about - Sayaka didn't understand it because it's a young people term and imagined a Buddha statue because of its standard meaning's "noble" connotations, when it's actually something like feelings of "this is too adorable" crossed with that "I want to protect it" meme. 尊死 is also fairly common, which is something like "it's so 尊い that I died" or simply "death by preciousness".

last edited at Dec 9, 2020 11:07PM

Wait, wait when did this manga get so many updates?! Thought it was cancelled! Got to read from the start now!

So I looked up 尊い and it seems it sounds like "tōtoi" (toh-oh-toy) and means "precious" just like the tlr said.

But I have never heard anyone say toh-oh-toy in any anime or tv drama I watched. "Moe" sure, all the time, but toh-oh-toy never.
Gotta be a really niche thing, like fujoshi speak for cool boys and BL? Either that or it's way unusual in everyday talk. I wonder if it's more common in manga? Like that one chapter of Yuru Oyako where Yuuki explains "precious" to Sayaka and then Sayaka calls Yuuki precious, I wonder if it was 尊い they were talking about?

As far as I know, it's recent-ish otaku slang (I especially see it a lot among BL/yuri fans), so you'll probably see it more in manga (at least for now). The term was what the Yuru Oyako chapter was about - Sayaka didn't understand it because it's a young people term and imagined a Buddha statue because of its standard meaning's "noble" connotations, when it's actually something like feelings of "this is too adorable" crossed with that "I want to protect it" meme. 尊死 is also fairly common, which is something like "it's so 尊い that I died" or simply "death by preciousness".

Thanks so much for the explanation!! I learned new things!
So I was right about Sayaka-Yuuki and it was about that they were talking! It was something I put in my post like an afterthought, without pondering much. By pure luck, it turns out it was an exact guess!

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 10:47AM

Damn you, Dynasty uploaders! Just as I think I'm getting caught up, another series pops up all in one lump! So, naturally, I had to read the whole thing in one go. I wrote these disconnected impressions as I went along, and I'm leaving them that way so you can see how it sucked me in...

It's a bit risky drawing a story where one of the characters is a "godly artist" when your own art isn't necessarily in that category. I mean, look at Misumi's arms in the top panel here. The left one is twice as long as the right, plus she has two right hands. But maybe that's what makes her such a good artist?

Having read a bit further, though, I see Sato actually got someone else to do the "godly" bits, which shows a commendable awareness of their own limitations. Good job.

Anyway, the occasional anatomical infelicity notwithstanding, the faces at least are uniformly hilarious, so I'm not going to complain too much.

And finally, the latest chapter left me bashing the space bar so hard. IhopeIdidn'tbreakit...

Lizbo posted:

It's a bit risky drawing a story where one of the characters is a "godly artist" when your own art isn't necessarily in that category. I mean, look at Misumi's arms in the top panel here. The left one is twice as long as the right, plus she has two right hands. But maybe that's what makes her such a good artist?

It's a bit confusing but she doesn't have two right hands. If you try to duplicate her exact pose (which can be a bit confusing to do actually, lol) you'll find out that your hands end up looking just like hers are drawn here. Also I think that the reason one arm looks shorter than the other is just a matter of perspective. From the perspective you're viewing the panel it looks like the arm under her head is lying parallel to her torso but I don't think that's actually the case. I'm pretty sure her elbow is out past her head with her arm angled inwards towards her head which would make it look shorter. On the other hand though, the shadow under her hand makes it look like part of her arm isn't even lying flat on the desk despite the fact she's resting her head on it which looks awkward.

It's a bit confusing but she doesn't have two right hands.

No, she really does. If that's a left hand, where's the thumb?

Lizbo posted:

It's a bit confusing but she doesn't have two right hands.

No, she really does. If that's a left hand, where's the thumb?

You're right. Author fucked up and forgot to draw thumb.

^ There's definitely a thumb there, though? You can see a minor incline heading up from the base of the wrist. It's just that her thumb is obscured behind her palm, and you can only see the rounding of the joint. Considering that the artist has dainty, delicate hands, it's not too strange for the bones to not be pronounced enough to prominently jut.

Edit: Yep, I tried replicating the position with my own hands, and it's a perfect match with the art. I'm honestly impressed at the author's attention to intricate positioning and detail here, because the placement isn't something you can easily visualize- you'd need to have someone model it for you or actually do the pose yourself. Conversely, all you'd need to do to confirm the accuracy of the art is pull the same position. But I like how the person who first pointed it out just went with the most condescending possible interpretation to dunk on someone who literally portrays anatomy for a living.

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 3:37PM

Kirin posted:

^ There's definitely a thumb there, though? You can see a minor incline heading up from the base of the wrist. It's just that her thumb is obscured behind her palm, and you can only see the rounding of the joint. Considering that the artist has dainty, delicate hands, it's not too strange for the bones to not be pronounced enough to prominently jut.

Shitty Impeccable paint skill go!


It'd be true if she had her thumb hidden behind her palm, but panel bellow shows that it isn't and thumb should be perfectly visible from the front. In fact unless we're supposed to assume she moved hand during sleep (I think she's supposed to be deep in sleep in 1 position, but I could be wrong) even the hand position doesn't match up. On panel on top her arm is leaning towards her left, while on panel bellow her arm is leaning towards her right. Also on top panel her pinky finger is the highest and pointing is the lowest, while on bottom her point is the highest, while pinky is the lowest.

to dunk on someone who literally portrays anatomy for a living.

Implying professional artists that draw for a living who fuck up anatomy constantly don't exist.

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 4:15PM

^ There's definitely a thumb there, though? You can see a minor incline heading up from the base of the wrist. It's just that her thumb is obscured behind her palm, and you can only see the rounding of the joint. Considering that the artist has dainty, delicate hands, it's not too strange for the bones to not be pronounced enough to prominently jut.

Edit: Yep, I tried replicating the position with my own hands, and it's a perfect match with the art. I'm honestly impressed at the author's attention to intricate positioning and detail here, because the placement isn't something you can easily visualize- you'd need to have someone model it for you or actually do the pose yourself. Conversely, all you'd need to do to confirm the accuracy of the art is pull the same position. But I like how the person who first pointed it out just went with the most condescending possible interpretation to dunk on someone who literally portrays anatomy for a living.

It is not rocket science. And I am speaking as someone who had to know anatomy as part of my profession. However, instead of countering your condescendence with my own, I will just ask you a simple question. This rounding of the joint, on which side do you see it?

Edit: On second thought, I have no desire to engage with this person. The only noticeable rounding that can be seen is on the inner side of the hand, facing the sitting person, indicating that the thumb is on that side. Which is anatomically impossible, the thumb should be on the opposite side, facing away from the person.

Secondly, the only way the thumb is not visible in this pose is if the back of the hand is positioned perfectly flatly towards us. If the hand is at an angle, like it is here (which we know because we can clearly see the sides of the fingers and not just their backs), the thumb must be visible (we are, of course, automatically assuming the thumb is in flexion here). You can not physically flex it to the point it would not be seen at such an angle. The moment even a sliver of the sides of the fingers is seen, the thumb becomes visible.

Thirdly, the cuffs are on the side of the little finger, which is, like the rounding mentioned before, on the wrong side of the hand. The little finger and the cuffs should be on the side towards the person.

Point is, the artist messed up, this is a right hand. And even if they think it is a left one and the thumb is simply not visible because it is flexed against the palm (in which case we need to ignore the rounding seen on the wrong side), they still messed up. With the hand at an angle towards us, we must see a part of the thumb.

I do like the block of text accompanied with the usual smugness, though. I especially like it when it comes after a failure to use something as simple as a mirror.

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 10:13PM

So I’m only on ch 3 but kudos to the new group for picking this up! Translating these big walls of monologue/rambling can’t be easy.

On another note, I dunno what this ‘twist’ y’all are talking about but I’m low key side eyeing the tags (especially Comedy) and preparing myself for...any possibility I guess.

On another note, I dunno what this ‘twist’ y’all are talking about but I’m low key side eyeing the tags (especially Comedy) and preparing myself for...any possibility I guess.

The boys in the anime they like with BL are actually crossdressing girls! :0 that's a lie! sorry

Thank you for translating this
Just read it today. I love the story and the dynamic between them

I do like the block of text accompanied with the usual smugness, though. I especially like it when it comes after a failure to use something as simple as a mirror.

I did use a mirror, as a matter of fact. And I assumed that the shift in position from one panel to next was simply because the positioning of the girl's fingers subtly shifted, as opposed to staying the exact same over the course of an entire dialogue. Contorting your thumb into that position produces a mild sense of stiffness, and so it'd be natural to stretch it out in the opposite direction after a few seconds, especially if you're not paying attention to your finger placements and are just lolling around, which the artist is. I experienced the exact same thing myself, hence my point about attention to detail.

I'll freely admit that I don't know anatomy as 'part of my profession', but I don't think my eyes are dysfunctional. Or maybe I was just born with a defect that makes me want to defend something that I find believable.

I draw and I've experienced myself what's like to have 2 right hands sometimes, luckily never shared in public (except one time but it was a feet and hardly noticeable) so I have to say it too, the first panel with the SNORE is sadly wrong, you should see the thumb in her LEFT hand but yeah it happens to the best too.

The second panel where she moved her hand is ... not wrong, you can do that pose but it's really really awkward to maintain, she's asleep so it wasn't on purpose but yeah.

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 10:01PM

^ I'll defer to you in this case, then. The positioning of the cuffs does seem rather awkward, especially since we can't see them in the next panel to establish perfect context. I do think that the angling of the shoulder is wonky, though. Overall, it seems like your interpretation of the plausibility of her position depends on the order in which you read the panels. I assumed that number one and two were entirely different positions, thanks to the aforementioned gap in time that elapsed during the three entire dialogues in the panel below. However, if you assume that her pose in the panel below is the correct one and inspect the first one retroactively, then it does seem anatomically incorrect. So unless you're willing to account for some degree of repositioning between manga panels (which I did, in line with my own experience), the two poses are indeed incompatible. It's an issue that accompanies the graphic medium- in many cases, you can't tell exactly how much time has passed between panels and can only rely on dialogue as a marker, and even then, there's the question of differing speech lengths, talking speeds, the positioning of all characters during said exchanges, and so forth. My view that is it's unnatural for there to be zero movement during all of this, especially if the artist is sleeping in panel one and we don't know how long the friends take to comment upon it.

last edited at Dec 10, 2020 10:24PM

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins posted:

I do like the block of text accompanied with the usual smugness, though. I especially like it when it comes after a failure to use something as simple as a mirror.

Don't do this. It adds nothing to the conversation, is inflammatory, and undermines any point you might've otherwise had.

last edited at Dec 11, 2020 7:31AM

The uniform buttons are on the wrong side. She clearly draw it looking at her right arm, hence why everything is reversed.

^ It's actually possible for the buttons to end up on the wrong side if you press one end of the fabric down while twisting your wrist. The bottom panel does show us the material of the uniform around the elbow sliding opposite to the direction of the wrist's rotation. It's happened to me quite often when I lie down on desks while wearing tight, full-sleeved shirts.

That being said, I'm not about to write more defenses, because it feels like the argument's stretched on for too long. I find that there's enough context in the two panels combined to suggest that the art isn't erroneous, but others don't. That's fine- it is art, at the end of the day. As to the question of whether Sato drew two right arms or is actually a genius of positioning and placement, we'll have to look to other examples on our own time to find out.

This was a good conversation, though. Helped me look at things in ways I hadn't considered before. I do have a minor sprain from trying to replicate that arm placement, but it was an interesting experience.

I don't want to drag the anatomy debate on any further, but I'm just going to add this, since I already had it written up.

First of all, I'm not going to apologise for pointing out the artist's mistake, because I honestly thought people would be amused by it. I wasn't expecting a minor flame war to develop...

On the other hand, "Good job" does come across as horribly condescending, now that I read it again. I didn't do myself any favours there, did I? I didn't mean it that way, though; I really do think it shows a commendable lack of ego on Sato's part to outsource Misumi's artwork to someone else, and furthermore she chose that person wisely, because that artwork is top-notch. So I do apologise for my poor choice of wording.

(I also apologise to anyone who suffered a wrist injury as a result of my post.)

^ It's cool, all's well that ends well.

Now that I think about it, all the weirdness about Misumi's fingers and wrists and whatnot makes perfect sense- she literally has yaoi hands.

Finally caught up to the last chapter! Things has become hectic xD