so... voyeur ex machina?

Huh do they realy need this miyoshi dude? Kinda stupid.

This isn't as good as Sakura Trick, just lewder.

I think the only result I'd be really pleased by would be her responding to this with the equivalent of "I love you too my girlfriend of x weeks". Because drama is just too lame at this point, and while I can continue reading if they decide THIS is the point where they became girlfriends, I just don't like the idea that it always has to be explicit with wlw relationships in manga. I don't like it when plausible deniability is kept so they can back out at least to the very last moment, but I also don't like it when they act like they have to say it out loud to make it real when they have been macking on each other for presumably more than two months now.

I mean, I'd be totally down with Ichika saying "I know, baka. But then I guess we can't be friends anymore. (pause for dramatic effect) So I guess that makes us girlfriends!"

What a great way to stop _:(´ཀ`」 ∠):

waiting for the next chapter T3T <3

I also don't like it when they act like they have to say it out loud to make it real when they have been macking on each other for presumably more than two months now.

It's a Japanese cultural thing. It's reality in fiction, and it's extremely common.

I've watched doramas where a guy and a girl have been living together for years, they have sex every day, they are in everything like a married couple... and then one day, bam, big conflict: she asks him to say loud and clear that he likes her!

That's right, he had never said it before! But she wants to hear it! Now!! She demands it!!!!

To which he reacts with utter shock and bewilderment, and totally panics! And when he eventually calms himself, he stutters something along the lines of: "It's difficult for a man to say that kinda stuff. You gotta give me a few more years to mentally prepare myself!"

Japanese culture is a culture of reading the context and reading the atmosphere, where you regularly imply things rather than stating them in an explicit way — and trust the other party to get your meaning without further clarification. In manga and tv shows it often leads to hilarious situations when someone tries to do this "imply not state" thing to a kuuki yomenai character who can't get a clue even if it's driven into their skull with a hammer.

Shiine and Ichika have a lot of this in their relationship.

They first kissed as a sort of test, out of curiosity.

Then one said that they should keep kissing every time they had a chance, and the other said okay.

Then, after a long time of this, one suggested that they should become friends, and the other said okay.

Then, again after a long time, it looks like Shiine is finally ready to say the words: "I love you!" Good for her! It took long but it didn't take years, lol.

It this seems extravagant to you, keep in mind that it's been only 10 regular chapters. In "Sekai de Ichiban Oppai ga Suki" Chiaki needed 42 chapters to drop formal address and finally start calling Hana by her personal name. And even now she still keeps denying that Hana is her romantic partner...

Whut? There are people denying Those two? Where? They are litterally the least usemess lesbians, period.

It's hardly perfectly clear what their relationship is, other than "close". I've gone back and forth on it myself.

They are planning to live together even post graduation, and one of the really big ones for me is the Kasumi chapter about how she just loves to come home to Sakurakos smiling face.
Though it is an unconventional setup, it seems like Sakurako is afraid of refering about them as a couple for whatever reason, But the series is full of relationship milestones All the way down to the aprooval of both sides parents.

. In "Sekai de Ichiban Oppai ga Suki" Chiaki needed 42 chapters to drop formal address and finally start calling Hana by her personal name. And even now she still keeps denying that Hana is her romantic partner...

Well admiting that would shatter her "pure Boob admiration" idea

I also don't like it when they act like they have to say it out loud to make it real when they have been macking on each other for presumably more than two months now.

It's a Japanese cultural thing. It's reality in fiction, and it's extremely common.

Japanese culture is a culture of reading the context and reading the atmosphere, where you regularly imply things rather than stating them in an explicit way — and trust the other party to get your meaning without further clarification. In manga and tv shows it often leads to hilarious situations when someone tries to do this "imply not state" thing to a kuuki yomenai character who can't get a clue even if it's driven into their skull with a hammer.

That last sentence made me think of Oldboy for some odd reason... Gave me an idea what to rewatch some time.

Yeah, I agree that it's an aspect inspired by Japanese culture and reality, but I wonder how realistic it actually is. It seems to often be blown way out of proportion in fiction. Sure, it might just be my western (German, no less - we're rather low-context) background, but I sometimes really can't fathom the mental Gymnastics characters in Japanese fiction perform. It's one of the tropes I wouldn't mind being cut back on a little, or dealt with better as an integral part of character development and growth throughout the series, as it was handled in Bloom Into You.
Great examples of ongoing manga I'm currently reading that are IMO guilty of overusing that trope would be Irajinaide Nagatoro-san, Hino-san no Baka and Can't defy the lonely girl - despite the latter only being 11 chapters in as well, it's way more annoying there than here. Might be because they're not as openly horny and don't have a wingwoman as capable as Miyoshi-senpai.

I mean I know you can be blind to the obvious truth and lie to yourself very effectively, while on the other hand I also know that you can actually enjoy fooling around with someone without being romantically into them at all.
Still, I think Japanese fiction is sometimes really stretching it.

And even if it's part of culture or something, it doesn't mean it's a good thing and can't be changed.

Lol if I had a penny for every time I saw somebody in a manga say "Eh? That's a little... !" I'd preorder a PS5.

Yassss!

Lol if I had a penny for every time I saw somebody in a manga say "Eh? That's a little... !" I'd preorder a PS5.

To be fair, that's IMO just a too literal approach to translation. While the elliptical phrase "sore wa chotto..." to my knowledge is indeed very commonly used in Japanese (being a high-context culture and all), I think it would be appropriate to use a variety of translations adapted to the situation that better express the desired/inferred sentiment in the target language. I find Crunchyroll's subtitles for the currently airing adaptation of Tonikawa pretty refreshing in that regard.

Then again, that's probably also my bias towards domestication in localisation. I have softened my stance on that in the last year and a half, though, so please don't go too hard on me now.

last edited at Nov 7, 2020 6:48PM

Then again, that's probably also my bias towards domestication in localisation. I have softened my stance on that in the last year and a half, though, so please don't go too hard on me now.

I don't mind a bit of "domestication in localisation" in my manga. I don't know if you've read Amano Shuninta's latest work I Wouldn't Mind Being Loved, but that's exactly what the translators have been trying to do since the beginning: capture the feelings and the flavors, and make every voice distinctive, rather than doing a word-by-word translation. I think the result is great and they did a wonderful job... but not everyone shares my opinion. Some replies have been like: "I have long been and continue to be not a fan of your overly loose and self-indulgent localization style. Please tone down the attempts at glib phraseology and just write what they say." Guess it's just impossible to please everyone and their uncle... :/

Then again, that's probably also my bias towards domestication in localisation. I have softened my stance on that in the last year and a half, though, so please don't go too hard on me now.

I don't mind a bit of "domestication in localisation" in my manga. I don't know if you've read Amano Shuninta's latest work I Wouldn't Mind Being Loved, but that's exactly what the translators have been trying to do since the beginning: capture the feelings and the flavors, and make every voice distinctive, rather than doing a word-by-word translation. I think the result is great and they did a wonderful job... but not everyone shares my opinion. Some replies have been like: "I have long been and continue to be not a fan of your overly loose and self-indulgent localization style. Please tone down the attempts at glib phraseology and just write what they say." Guess it's just impossible to please everyone and their uncle... :/

I think SAD are some of the best translators in the (figurative) business, simply because of how hilarious and unique they make pretty much everyone sound, but as much as their translations make me chortle, I always feel like I'm being amused more by their specific choices in phraseology and words than I am by the actual content of the manga. From a purely entertainment-based standpoint, SAD are golden, but since my fundamental stance whilst reading and analyzing manga is to ask "What did the author want to express?", there's a small part of me that's irked by the liberties they take. I know that there's already a huge barrier to my understanding of a manga author's mindset because they write in a different language and come from a different culture, but that's exactly why it feels so gratifying to predict a plot point or relate to a character, since it feels like I've crossed a massive geo-cultural chasm. Translators occupy an ambiguous position, because they could both exacerbate or mitigate the linguistic disconnect, and as much as SAD's translations make manga characters look like they've stepped out of the familiar Western sitcoms I grew up watching, I also feel like there's a certain amount of uniquely Japanese context and nuance that's lost when they toss in terms like muff seminar and don't make a pig's ear out of it. They're pretty much phrases that no one would use in real life, and even if they're accurate to what a character is saying, they feel unrealistic, because they stand out so much from almost every other manga translation in existence. While it's possible that SAD are in fact pioneers who've grasped the realities of entertaining translation and are decades ahead of their contemporaries, Occam's Razor (as used by someone who can't actually read Japanese) would suggest that every other group is more dedicated to getting across a subtle, professional conversion of text, while SAD just has their fun with translation, nuance be damned.

Essentially, I'd argue that an SAD scanlation is like Project Mouthwash's Fate: Unlimited Blade Works- Abridged. It's clever, hilarious, and probably more fun than the original series ever was, but you'd still need to know about the original series to fully appreciate it. I kinda wish they'd do the thing that certain anime subbers do, and release an 'official' translation that's accurate to the source in every way, and an 'Akiba' translation that expresses the dialogue in all their quirky, rib-tickling glory. But I understand that this would probably be too much work, and so I'm largely satisfied with what we get, especially since there's no alternatives.

Fairypixie24 posted:

but that's exactly what the translators have been trying to do since the beginning: capture the feelings and the flavors, and make every voice distinctive, rather than doing a word-by-word translation.

That's really missing the point of translation. No TL is ever exactly word-by-word. Translators always have to take some liberities. How much and how visible it is, is often heavily depended on skills of translator and original work itself. And it's not translator job to make each voice distinctive. It's author's one. Good author will make each character have distinctive voice and good translator will translate it accordingly. I'm hard press calling someone good author when translator has to add unique voice to their character and vice versa when scanlator is adding a unique voice to character that didn't have one.

I said it before. I really appreciate and can understand the way SAD translate their stuff. Nobody can say their translations don't flow well and aren't fun to read. But whatever they're good translations in the sense of conveying the tone and meaning of original, that's definitely more debatable. They definitely nailed the way to localize translations though.

this is love lab rated ecchi

How far you want to remove the translation from the original massively depends on what you're trying to achieve and what target audience you're translating for.
The only recent SAD translation I've been following is Wanna go out?, and I think I've already offered my praise for what they did with it over in the thread of that series. I love how they take liberties. My general aspiration in localization/translation would be delivering a target text that is indistinguishable from one originally written in the target language, and I think that's what SAD are going for as well. That always means that some (lesser?) cultural aspects and a bit of the original's nuance are lost. A naive audience (which I daresay we are mostly not on this forum) probably would not have known about these aspects and might be put off by nuance that's alien to them. That omission can legitimately be seen as an issue and runs counter to Venuti's ideals of translation, as he focuses much more on transporting alien cultural aspects, challenging the reader and, in a sense, educating them.

I theorize that an adaptation like SAD's WGO? may deliver an experience for us that is closer to what a Japanese person gets when reading the original, than what we'd get if the TL-team stuck closely to the original and found themselves explaining phrases and concepts through footnotes every other page. Still, I see merit in both approaches.

A naive audience (which I daresay we are mostly not on this forum)

I think you're overestimating us.

I theorize that an adaptation like SAD's WGO? may delive one r an experience for us that is closer to what a Japanese person gets when reading the original, than what we'd get if the TL-team stuck closely to the original and found themselves explaining phrases and concepts through footnotes every other page. Still, I see merit in both approaches.

I couldn't care less about which is more accurate as long as i understand what it's saying. Of course, that doesn't mean i want toread a troll translation or a half-assed one but i don't understand writing Japanese in the slightest so any good translations work for me.

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 6:09AM

A naive audience (which I daresay we are mostly not on this forum)

I think you're overestimating us.

C'mon, let me be optimistic here.

Also yeah, I get the sentiment. Any translation is better than not getting to enjoy it at all. I've actually read some relatively passable edited machine-translations for new titles (manhua and manga) this year, which really weren't great, and certainly included even less nuance, but still provided way more enjoyment than not having access at all.

last edited at Nov 8, 2020 6:38AM

Damn it...I can’t wait for the next chapter!!!!!!!

So, two days ago, when I was over at my best friend's house, I commented to him that it's not been a 24 hours, and chapter 10 of this already got 3rd on the most popular from the last 7 days section, and called it there that it's quickly gonna get to first in a day or two. And wouldn't you know it, it is first now! Called it!

The only recent SAD translation I've been following is Wanna go out?, and I think I've already offered my praise for what they did with it over in the thread of that series. I love how they take liberties.

I also love the work they do on Wanna go out? and enjoy it enormously. They got every character's voice amazingly right.

I theorize that an adaptation like SAD's WGO? may deliver an experience for us that is closer to what a Japanese person gets when reading the original, than what we'd get if the TL-team stuck closely to the original and found themselves explaining phrases and concepts through footnotes every other page. Still, I see merit in both approaches.

Indeed. The second approach is the traditional one in fan-translating, and originated as a reaction to the gross excesses of rewriting that happened in manga released by American publishers. SAD was at first one of the TL-teams who worked that way, sticking to the original texts almost word by word, but recently they have started taking some liberties to make the dialogues flow better and the reading experience more enjoyable. I see it as a proof of maturity... and the results so far (WGO, I Wouldn't Mind Being Loved) have certainly been impressive. In the end, imho, it all boils down to this: domestication/localisation in translation is something better left to the loving fans who really care about the original; they are the ones who can and will do it right. (Again, this is imho, and ymmv, m'kay?)

Arguably to REALLY localize something you'd convert mentions of okonomiyaki and other street food to "hot dogs". Which I would consider a step or three too far.

Then there's the whole honorifics thing. At some point the "native Japanese experience" cannot be translated into modern American English because that experience doesn't exist. So I really like translations that keep the honorifics and if necessary include a guide to what they mean.