MacySan

I just wanted to state that as a non Japanese person, which I'm also sure others have thought too. I don't want to open a whole discussion about it.

Wow. Your arrogance and entitlement is really on another level, isn't it? "I want to be able to freely express myself and insult things I don't understand and have 0 knowledge about, but nobody can correct me or even respond, because I don't want to open discussion about it, that's why I write that horseshit on public forum".

last edited at Dec 16, 2019 7:54AM

I just wanted to state that as a non Japanese person, which I'm also sure others have thought too. I don't want to open a whole discussion about it.

Don't worry, I too am sure that people other than you talk authoritatively about things they don't understand.

last edited at Dec 16, 2019 8:07AM

Everone is entitled to their opinion, including in situations in which that opinion is talking shit about someone else's opinion. That's the everlasting double-edged sword of free speech.

last edited at Dec 16, 2019 8:10AM

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as they're not assholes about it.
I don't say my opinion is the right one, I simply said I didn't want to take this further and derail the thread, but yall keep mocking me.
I also stated some arguments about the sea water and why it's not the same as the water in onsens. If I'm wrong about that too, you can say in what specifically. I never attacked anyone or called them names, but I'm the arrogant here? Lol

Wow. Your arrogance and entitlement is really on another level, isn't it? "I want to be able to freely express myself and insult things I don't understand and have 0 knowledge about, but nobody can correct me or even respond, because I don't want to open discussion about it, that's why I write that horseshit on public forum".

Are you talking about yourself? You just attacked me for no reason. If you have issues maybe talk with someone irl about them. You always sound so angry and ready to jump into people's throats.

^Ah, may you forever keep your innocence and blissful ignorance of how filthy the sea water is in many places...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as they're not assholes about it.

Nobody said you couldn't have your opinion. I'm just asserting my right to laugh at you condescendingly, since you don't want a discussion, so that's kinda all I got to offer; sorry.

last edited at Dec 16, 2019 8:36AM

MacySan

You just attacked me for no reason.

Keep deluding yourself.

I said I didn't want to derail the thread, not that I don't want a discussion. Because it got out of the point quick.
2. I wasn't trying to insult anyone. I was saying that I don't get the public bath system and why it has to be like that, because even Chidori said she felt embarrassed going there, and she is someone who grew up with it as a norm. The conversation got derailed by putting too much emphasis on the germs part.

The way the conversation with Mai went was as if a lot of times the only option to take a bath is by public baths. Because Mai said that "there might be a private bath there" which indicates that oftentimes there isn't.

I said I didn't want to derail the thread, not that I don't want a discussion. Because it got out of the point quick.

Hmm...

I don't want to open a whole discussion about it.

But really, I'm always surprised when people are surprised that there's a standard yuri development in their yuri. Don't people know that this genre runs almost purely on miscommunication? Have I been reading a different yuri than everyone else all these years?

I feel like you make a valid point here

I surely laughed when she stuck her tongue out and we got the sfx.

Excuse me. They’re washing themselves first before soaking in that public bath. Also in their own homes, they do the same before entering their bathtub. What’s so gross about it anyway, it’s kinda like in a swimming pool and I actually found it more gross lol, at least, in their bath Japanese washes first.

Pools get chloride and are bigger in volumes. Also, no matter how good they wash themselves, there's still bound to be some filth left. In your own house it's only you, not other 10+ people as well.
Plus if they already have washed, why enter the bath naked? They could wear a swimwear.
Anyway, to me it's bizzare and very unnecessary, unless you wanna see people around you naked.

Huh? It’s not about wanting to see people around naked lol. It’s about culture, and it’s inappropriate to wear clothes while they’re in it. Maybe for you it’s unnecessary, but for them it isn’t. Wearing swimwear is for another public bath which is a public pool, not for onsen.

If the topic of public bathing really has you curious (for good or bad), here are some links that might interest you.

Funfacts:
Onsen (by definition using naturally hot water from geothermally heated springs) are as different to indoor baths as the ocean is to a lake - still water is always more susceptible to dirt and bacteria, filth and disease. Partly because of the oxigen whirled in doing a nice job to equalize things, as well as active living (nice) organisms doing the same, and of course constant fresh-water upkeep.
There's an actual downside to chlorine, btw, that includes rashes, skin damage (especially in combination with too much sun) and inflamations to the respiratory system and mucous membranes, because more often than not pool keepers use way too much chlorine, either out of ingorance or to make up for lacking other maintenances. E.g. keeping the ph value in check... (if it's too high, chlorine can't do it's supposed job!) Rule of thumb: If the chlorine smell makes your nose achey, something's wrong. Enjoy at your own discretion.
...oh, and bathing clothes don't do nothing to protect one (cept for one's modesty?) - if anything they get soaked and offer hollows, keeping potentially contaminated water close to ones 'sensitive parts', where body temp warms it up and helps bacteria become really lively, increasing their chances to enter and harm the body. Even when one exits the water in question, until they change or are completely dried up again. It's usually neglectable increased risks from just that, but I thought I'd mention it, since it came up... Going commando may indeed be better for your health in any such scenario. The constant flush of water making it harder for ..stuff to get inside you, compared to bascially trapping it right there.
Additionally, there's a difference between drinking water and clean water. Even if a water pool isn't so "clean" one should drink it, a body will get sufficiently clean from it. (Also, don't forget your skin is naturally rather good at keeping bacteria at bay; too much scrubbing can do more harm than good, as well as using too many chemicals - everything in good measure.)
That said, 'cept for some cultures being the expected exception from the rule ...don't we usually declare our butts "clean" when the sheet remains white? ^^;;

And as others already said in other words: There's usually an (historically and culturally established) etiquette preceeding and surrounding the usage of public baths; to wash oneself properly before entering the pool. Since that happens not in solitary either, we can assume that people follow this rule much more attentively than, let's say, washing one's hands after using the restroom - all across the world.
If we really want to get that paranoid, we should all stop shaking hands first before judging public bathing.

I hope, that answers that. And that we can now all return to pretend to be reasonable and academics with some fancy literature degree, and return to the usual bashing of the author for daring to bring in "drama" or "tropes" or handholding or have us just over-analyze the sh*t out of a singular panel or non-text assumptions... *sigh*

...speaking of which:

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/hana_ni_arashi_ch69#3

The friends face there makes me think they know

I know, right? They're blushing and all! And getting all invested in getting them back together! And their immediate reaction "someone" - *heads whip around to Chidori* XD

last edited at Dec 16, 2019 12:03PM

Cute pout faces give me life.

Also again, the whole naked thing. Why not at least wear a swimsuit and everyone has to be naked? It is a rhetorical question, you don't have to actually answer.
I just wanted to state that as a non Japanese person, which I'm also sure others have thought too. I don't want to open a whole discussion about it.

I have a feeling you would get a stroke if you learned about Finnish sauna culture.

Cute pout faces give me life.

Also again, the whole naked thing. Why not at least wear a swimsuit and everyone has to be naked? It is a rhetorical question, you don't have to actually answer.
I just wanted to state that as a non Japanese person, which I'm also sure others have thought too. I don't want to open a whole discussion about it.

I have a feeling you would get a stroke if you learned about Finnish sauna culture.

All I know about saunas is that they're hot and steamy, and then, once they finish steaming there, the Finns (those complete absolute madlads of a people) go swimming in a frozen lake or river.

You just gotta love them Finns.

If the topic of public bathing really has you curious (for good or bad), here are some links that might interest you.

Funfacts:
Onsen (by definition using naturally hot water from geothermally heated springs) are as different to indoor baths as the ocean is to a lake - still water is always more susceptible to dirt and bacteria, filth and disease. Partly because of the oxigen whirled in doing a nice job to equalize things, as well as active living (nice) organisms doing the same, and of course constant fresh-water upkeep.
There's an actual downside to chlorine, btw, that includes rashes, skin damage (especially in combination with too much sun) and inflamations to the respiratory system and mucous membranes, because more often than not pool keepers use way too much chlorine, either out of ingorance or to make up for lacking other maintenances. E.g. keeping the ph value in check... (if it's too high, chlorine can't do it's supposed job!) Rule of thumb: If the chlorine smell makes your nose achey, something's wrong. Enjoy at your own discretion.
...oh, and bathing clothes don't do nothing to protect one (cept for one's modesty?) - if anything they get soaked and offer hollows, keeping potentially contaminated water close to ones 'sensitive parts', where body temp warms it up and helps bacteria become really lively, increasing their chances to enter and harm the body. Even when one exits the water in question, until they change or are completely dried up again. It's usually neglectable increased risks from just that, but I thought I'd mention it, since it came up... Going commando may indeed be better for your health in any such scenario. The constant flush of water making it harder for ..stuff to get inside you, compared to bascially trapping it right there.
Additionally, there's a difference between drinking water and clean water. Even if a water pool isn't so "clean" one should drink it, a body will get sufficiently clean from it. (Also, don't forget your skin is naturally rather good at keeping bacteria at bay; too much scrubbing can do more harm than good, as well as using too many chemicals - everything in good measure.)
That said, 'cept for some cultures being the expected exception from the rule ...don't we usually declare our butts "clean" when the sheet remains white? ^^;;

And as others already said in other words: There's usually an (historically and culturally established) etiquette preceeding and surrounding the usage of public baths; to wash oneself properly before entering the pool. Since that happens not in solitary either, we can assume that people follow this rule much more attentively than, let's say, washing one's hands after using the restroom - all across the world.
If we really want to get that paranoid, we should all stop shaking hands first before judging public bathing.

I hope, that answers that. And that we can now all return to pretend to be reasonable and academics with some fancy literature degree, and return to the usual bashing of the author for daring to bring in "drama" or "tropes" or handholding or have us just over-analyze the sh*t out of a singular panel or non-text assumptions... *sigh*

Wow that was very informative! XD
Anyway yes, the still waters thing. This is what I meant by the comparison to public baths with the ocean. Pools are almost the same as public baths, so not much difference. But oceans is pretty different. And yes I know some beaches are pretty nasty too, I'm not talking about these cases.
It's also way easier to catch someone else's skin infection in the still waters.

Bottom line, I just wanted to say that if someone doesn't feel comfortable using public baths and being naked in front of everyone, there should be a second option for them to bathe in their room. That's cause Mai mentioned there "might" be a private bath, so Chidori seemed to have no option here.

I have a feeling you would get a stroke if you learned about Finnish sauna culture.

I'll search it up later. Don't worry, I won't post my thoughts here though.

last edited at Dec 16, 2019 12:47PM

there should be a second option for them to bathe in their room.

Which is the case in some hotels in Japan.

That's cause Mai mentioned there "might" be a private bath, so Chidori seemed to have no option here.

She say "might" because she just don't know in which hotel the girls stay so she can't know if the hotels have bath/shower in the room or not.

I just wanted to say that if someone doesn't feel comfortable using public baths and being naked in front of everyone

I don't think it's being embarrased in front of everyone but embarrased in front of Nanoha.It's a recurrent trope in Yuri where one of the girls is embarrased to get naked in an onsen in front of her GF/crush (Yamada in Kase-san or Akko in Girl Friends).

What the hell is wrong with this stupidly lazy writing. I thought we were over this kind of stupidity 30 chapters ago but no why give them character growth when they can go through the same trash again and again and again. I like this manga a lot actually but this is disgusting. In my eyes they don´t work together at all. They are so insanely immature and dump it hurts to look at them. These topics aren´t even embarassing they just have literally no trust in each other I mean why just talk when it´s way easier to just act like trash to each other.
So let it be resolved like all the other stupid fights they had so that they can do it again after this because learning is for idiots.

It's almost like they're kids or something.

Exactly! And @BlueDsc, might I say that your avatar perfectly emphasizes the tone of this comment!

I'm honestly really happy with this development. A lot of times in mangas (mostly yuri), whenever someone gets jealous that their friend/girlfriend are getting close with someone, the friend/girlfriend gets all mopey and feels bad about it, so they end up apologizing, followed by the jealous person apologizing for being jealous. This just has Chidori being rightfully pissed off at Nanoha for bring immature. It feels realistic, especially since they're teenagers, so I'm on board with this "drama"
Also, I really hope Mai gets a gf soon. She has a good heart being nice to Chidori, even though she loves Nanoha.

I agree. People seem to be thinking that this is "more of the same" for these two, but if you think about it, this is their first REAL fight. In addition, Chidori's well founded jealousy over Nanoha spending FAR too much time with Mai, especially considering the fact that Mai actually DOES have a crush on her and is actively looking for a chance to get between the two of them and wants to take Chidori's place (though neither of them KNOW that) was heading down the path @Beefaroni suggested. There was already that type of scene where Chidori told Nanoha that she felt jealous of the amount of time she was spending with Mai and about how much Mai knew about her childhood and Nanoha responded by feeling bad about the fact that she hasn't had much time to talk with Chidori recently AND the fact that whenever she's alone with her she doesn't think about talking but just thinks about how much she wants to kiss her, meanwhile her girlfriend if feeling lonely and jealous of her childhood friend... The standard, non-confrontational resolution that @Beefaroni was referring to...

Here we have a different approach. Nanoha gets jealous over Chidori keeping secrets about what she and Mai have been talking about, when the reason Chidori is keeping them secret is embarrassment because of her own insecurities. (Though I would think she could tell her about the first time that she was asking about, since she was embarrassed because Mai asked her if she'd ever kissed anyone. That might have cleared some of the issues up. Indeed, it might have even gotten Nanoha wondering about some of her own interactions with Mai and whether Mai had figured out something about their relationship... or if Mai might have a crush on her? But that's probably asking too much of the story and of the character of Nanoha. She's not supposed to be that socially aware.) In any case, Nanoha's admittedly petty attempt to get payback blows up in her face spectacularly, since Chidori is already on edge about having to go to the public bath together with her girlfriend. This is actually new territory for this manga. They haven't had any real arguments. The closest they came to having one was when Chidori's senpai was causing trouble, but Nanoha came through like a champ then when she probably had a legitimate reason to feel jealous. So saying this is the same thing over again isn't really accurate.

I don't really like the "it's realistic" argument. Is talking about problems that unrealisitc for teenagers ? They are not really what i can call kids anymore, they are 2nd year of highschools. Meaning they are nearly adults, i get some people can have some communications problems but how 2 peoples talking about something that upset them is unrealistic ?

I know, right? They're blushing and all! And getting all invested in getting them back together! And their immediate reaction "someone" - heads whip around to Chidori XD

They turn to Chidori because Nanoha switch to upset after the bus ride and since Nanoha was with Chidori during it, you don't need a 200 IQ to understand that Nanoha is upset because of Chidori or at least she might now why.

I don't really like the "it's realistic" argument. Is talking about problems that unrealisitc for teenagers ? They are not really what i can call kids anymore, they are 2nd year of highschools. Meaning they are nearly adults, i get some people can have some communications problems but how 2 peoples talking about something that upset them is unrealistic ?

It's unrealistic to expect it to happen immediately. People need time to cool their heads, which is part of what's happening here. People need to be able to get angry, and they need to be able to let it out. It's an emotion everyone feels. Expecting them to immediately suppress it and have a levelheaded conversation isn't practical. The way they're handling is immature, sure. But having them immediately talk it out wouldn't be very good writing.

I don't think it's being embarrased in front of everyone but embarrased in front of Nanoha.It's a recurrent trope in Yuri where one of the girls is embarrased to get naked in an onsen in front of her GF/crush (Yamada in Kase-san or Akko in Girl Friends).

Ah yes, I remember the latter example.
While I'm on this, even YagaKimi (in my opinion the most magnificent jewel in the yuri crown) had a similar situation during the training camp arc.

They turn to Chidori because Nanoha switch to upset after the bus ride and since Nanoha was with Chidori during it, you don't need a 200 IQ to understand that Nanoha is upset because of Chidori or at least she might now why.

Well, it's a theory. I (and others too) keep pointing out things that fit said theory. It keeps accumulating. It may not be the author's intent that they know and it may eventually be revealed that they never knew. But there have been far more outlandish (and harmful) theories here. I'll stick with it and will keep getting excited over 'yet another' sign that may feed this theory until I've been proven otherwise. Because it's harmless fun!

I don't really like the "it's realistic" argument. Is talking about problems that unrealisitc for teenagers ? They are not really what i can call kids anymore, they are 2nd year of highschools. Meaning they are nearly adults, i get some people can have some communications problems but how 2 peoples talking about something that upset them is unrealistic ?

Lucky you, I keep running into adults that often have petty arguments over nothing and forget how to adult properly every so often. Wittnessed countless break-ups and picket-fences fights over the simplest misunderstandings, lack of communication in general or biased / self-centered views, that to any outsider were just dumbfounding. Not to mention the teenagers...
I guess I am surrounded by the wrong people when it seems realistic to me that two 16 yo's, in the middle of puberty, who have never had a romantic relationship before, get overwhelmed by their emotions and fail to communicate properly. o.O

I agree that (putting aside the germophobia-across-cultures digressions) much of the reader angst about these recent chapters has been yet another episode of “trope-heavy genre accused of using tropes.”

I would say that the vast majority of genres—certainly the ones based around human relationships—are inherently based on a lack of communication/flawed information exchange, and on misunderstandings.

Those who say, “the whole story would fall apart if they just talked to each other” about stories tend to superimpose an idealized template of human behavior on what people actually do—in this case, neither Chidori nor Nanoha want to bring up what’s bothering them because they know that almost all the specific elements would sound petty and that they’re being childish (Chidori has no idea that her fears about Mai are well-founded).

It’s true that people often do communicate clearly and thus avoid conflicts, but then those don’t tend become stories, which are based on conflicts. It’s also true that some stories do set up situations where there’s no reason for the characters not to communicate except to allow for the stories (that’s true of about 90% of TV sit-com plots).

But one thing social-science studies have consistently shown is that there’s a huge gap between what people say they would do when presented with hypothetical situations and what they actually do in such situations—they’re usually much less verbal and confrontational than they claim they would be, and much more passive and evasive.

...*once again frantically searches for a "like post" option*

Oh well