Everyone has their own opinions on things, so I just agee(sic) to disagree on most of the community people make here.

Not a knock on you Shawn, but whenever you quote you never take > away of your response, so instead showing like this

Any phrase

Your reply

it always go like this:

Any phrase

Your reply

Double quoted

HonestYuriHawk posted:

Mei's reactions to Yuzu's deep love is always so adorable.

...

Just kidding just kidding XD I know you what you mean, Mei in the colored page was super cute and coming out of the elevator is probably the reddest we've seen her in the entirely of the citrus verse, right? too bad the building doesn't have like 50 floors, they would've come out dripping .........sweat

They’re going to have sex when they’re grandmas

It's like some people here had never heard of Bile Fascination.

More to the point the series has enough funny spots (more often than not involving Matsuri in some fashion) and nice art to be worth following but the main storyline is about beyond saving by this point. Bitching about it is still entertaining by itself however.

Everyone has their own opinions on things, so I just agee(sic) to disagree on most of the community people make here.

Not a knock on you Shawn, but whenever you quote you never take > away of your response, so instead showing like this

Any phrase

Your reply

it always go like this:

Any phrase

Your reply

Double quoted

like this?

I've always found doing that to be pretty obnoxious and sometimes making hard to recognize the answer to the quote.

HonestYuriHawk posted:

Mei's reactions to Yuzu's deep love is always so adorable.

...

Just kidding just kidding XD I know you what you mean, Mei in the colored page was super cute and coming out of the elevator is probably the reddest we've seen her in the entirely of the citrus verse, right? too bad the building doesn't have like 50 floors, they would've come out dripping .........sweat

I, on the other hand find it stupid and boring. Over reacting in small things like that is only cute when they have a crush and start realizing it, or in the first stages of their dating.

I mean, even Saburuta recognized their development is weird through Matsuri saying it.
Like, they're going to get married but Mei finds it hard to say I love you and they both get so flustered as if they just had sex inside the elevator..!! ffs. Cause getting married to your same sex gf in front of all these people and declaring your love in front of them all is less awkward than say I love you to her in private.

Oh my god now we have a Yaya. Every high ranking Yuri series has a Sayaka, why not this one? LMFAO Saburouta.

I have turned into a dirty old lady waiting for Mei and Yuzu to fug but I know the day will come eventually. Saburouta can be a huge tease she's just riding it out as long as possible.

last edited at Oct 19, 2019 7:18PM

Like, they're going to get married but Mei finds it hard to say I love you and they both get so flustered as if they just had sex inside the elevator..!! ffs.

Yeah, this is too unrealistic. Also the chances that 2 people who are this much into each other, sleeping on the same bed every night and never having sex is like less than 0. And they are teens no less.

I gave this whole sequel series a re-read to see if there was something I was missing.

To be fair, as others have mentioned Sabu is even highlighting what we’re complaining about (mostly via Matsuri), so it’s not like it’s accidental. The gang all even went to (some version of) the Blue is the Warmest Color movie, with that on-the-nose comment about explicit sex being unnecessary compared to a simple kiss.

That being said, a number of people have put forth the theory that Mei’s character is in fact consistent—that she feels bad about her previous treatment of Yuzu and now wants to “act properly” towards her. What she actually says is,

        “Before marriage, there’s dating. And we’ve only just started. 
       And in order to respond to her sincerity, I should properly go through the steps from the very beginning.”

Assuming the translation is basically accurate, this really doesn’t make a lot of sense, or at least doesn’t tell us much.

First of all, not all of Mei and Yuzu’s romantic interactions from Chapter 24 onwards were abusive or duplicitous—they were into each other, they went on dates, they made out. Why would they suddenly need to start with a perfectly clean slate, as if they were adolescents who just met?

Even if Mei feels like she previously acted badly towards Yuzu, that aggressive, confident, bossy yet emotionally damaged and privately vulnerable Mei is the person who Yuzu fell in love with. If Mei had been this trembly, tongue-tied, blushing introvert from the start Yuzu never even would have noticed her.

Mei positions her current attitude as being for Yuzu’s sake (“to respond to her sincerity”), but actually it doesn’t seem to have much to do with Yuzu at all. In fact, Yuzu is altering herself to be more like Mei wants—studying hard, holding herself back from physical affection, always looking to Mei for approval and affection, while Mei holds her at arm’s length.

This series has always been rather bizarre in its main premise and very, very uneven in the execution of its storytelling, but the one thing it definitely had going for it was the crazy sexual chemistry between the leads. It’s almost as if Sabu is trolling the audience by reverting the characters to a very chaste pre-teen level of romantic interaction, and inserting commentary by the other characters to demonstrate that’s exactly what she’s doing.

last edited at Oct 19, 2019 8:51PM

I still think Yuzu deserves a better gf than Mei.....
I already don't like Sayaka (cause she's a mini-Mei)
Why do these girls (Yuzu and Miyubi) feel attracted to cold characters? It's just boring

just admit it ure all here hoping for sexy time with the art style

Somewhat. Im just waiting for Mei to act like a normal human being. It's like she jumped from being a sexual predator to being a robot devoid of emotions which she only shows occasionally

last edited at Oct 19, 2019 9:13PM

This series has always been rather bizarre in its main premise and very, very uneven in the execution of its storytelling, but the one thing it definitely had going for it was the crazy sexual chemistry between the leads. It’s almost as if Sabu is trolling the audience by reverting the characters to a very chaste pre-teen level of romantic interaction, and inserting commentary by the other characters to demonstrate that’s exactly what she’s doing.

And what would your guess be as to the reason Sabu is doing this? I mean, surely it must be affecting the series popularity?

My only guess is that maybe they are trying to make them hold back for as many chapters as possible before going into a makeout frenzy for effect? That would be stupid but forgivable, yet I don't have hopes...

last edited at Oct 19, 2019 9:15PM

I don't usually comment, but with the chorus of complaints I feel like I should stand up and be counted among the ones who liked it. I like that Mei is finding herself, embracing what she wants, for the school and for her personal life, and trying to find ways to show Yuzu how she feels.

I liked they way the first series ended, with a promise about the future (the wedding), and that now, secure in that promise, we get to see the growth of their relationship, but we have to remember that future is still a long way off.

It has been many long years for us, but for the characters, in universe, it has been hardly any time at all. They are teenagers, still in high school FFS. They are still discovering who they are themselves (especially Mei). I really identify with Mei, and it seems like most of the time she barely even understands her own emotions, but she loves Yuzu and she doesn't want to hurt her, so of course she wants to go slow. It has been made clear that Yuzu and Mei are sexually attracted to each other, so I'm sure they will get there eventually.

Sex is part of the relationship scenery, some check it out right away, others take the scenic route and some never get there at all. It is not the finish line, it doesn't "make" the relationship. I'm not against sex in romance stories (eg I like the way sex is used in Hanjuku Joshi), but I really don't think there is any hard and fast rule about when/if it has to come in to make things "real".

This series has always been rather bizarre in its main premise and very, very uneven in the execution of its storytelling, but the one thing it definitely had going for it was the crazy sexual chemistry between the leads. It’s almost as if Sabu is trolling the audience by reverting the characters to a very chaste pre-teen level of romantic interaction, and inserting commentary by the other characters to demonstrate that’s exactly what she’s doing.

And what would your guess be as to the reason Sabu is doing this? I mean, surely it must be affecting the series popularity?

My only guess is that maybe they are trying to make them hold back for as many chapters as possible before going into a makeout frenzy for effect? That would be stupid but forgivable, yet I don't have hopes...

I certainly don’t believe that Sabu thinks of herself as trolling readers, but it seems obvious that she’s hyper-aware of audience expectations and is well aware that she’s subverting them (as Matsuri keeps reminding us).

What the rationale for doing so is a real puzzler, though. This is a series that featured a sexualized kiss in Chapter 1, and a very sincere mutual kissing session in Chapter 8, along with a number of other examples subsequent to that. As I mentioned, all these dozens of chapters later Mei’s current attitude wants to in effect wipe all that away in favor of a highly moralistic chastity.

The main series was pretty unequivocal—when it came to their relationship, Yuzu was right (they loved each other and needed to be together) and Mei was wrong (they couldn’t be together, she needed to sacrifice herself for the family, etc.). The way that series ended seemed to suggest that Mei had yielded to Yuzu’s way of thinking, and they were going to make their way forward on an entirely new basis.

That’s why the first chapter of Citrus+ was so surprising, on this re-read even kind of shocking—when they finally reunited, they almost but not quite touched fingers not, god forbid, held hands. It could almost (but not quite) make sense if this series were told entirely from the point of view of the secondary characters, on the outside looking in at the Yuzu-Mei relationship and trying to piece together the public cues to figure out what’s going on with them.

But in fact we’re given a good deal of Mei & Yuzu’s home life, you know, where they sleep in the same bed every fucking night, but we actually see considerably more skinship between Mei and Himeko and between Yuzu and Harumin than we do between the leads. (I’m not saying they need to be overtly sexual, but certainly I have no idea why we can’t see them chatting and cuddling in bed.)

(The only way we know they aren’t as completely celibate as a pair of medieval nuns is because of the interleaved Chapter 41 from the main series—as if an on-panel kiss would disrupt the space-time continuum of Citrus+.)

So your theory is as good as any other—this is all a slow-burn tease leading up to a volcanic eruption of the sexual energy that was once the calling card of this series. But, then, in the past I often used to get excited thinking that Sabu had something amazing up her sleeve that would make everything suddenly fall into place.

I don’t do that anymore.

last edited at Oct 19, 2019 10:42PM

Welp, what can I say :-(

I seriously think Saburuta doesn't allow them to kiss or do more solely to keep the interest of the readers, because besides that, there's nothing else to look forward to the story. The new characters are just an excuse to keep the story going.

I also disagree that they have chemistry. For me, chemistry to put it very generally is how they interact, not them constantly blushing and holding back.
There was also no built up in their relationship. It was always Yuzu going after Mei. I don't see any chemistry in that. And even in the first chapters that Mei was acting out and kissing Yuzu, that was to punish her. Even these kisses were bad because you could feel Mei being either cold and unmoving or punishing Yuzu.
The (literally) only time I've felt nice and chemistry with this couple was when Yuzu had sneaked in Mei's bed during their school trip.

I also really feel like we'll never get anything more than a kiss that won't last long. I doubt there will ever be an intimate scene too, but if that happens in the very last chapter, it will be a fade to black before showing anything.

It seems like people are reading a different story than I am, so it feels like it would be constructive to describe what I've read.

Previous chapter (6) Mei let Yuzu know (obliquely, but this is Mei we are talking about) that she wants, and values, the support she gives her, even going so far as to declare it in front of the board (& Yuzu in turn told Mei how happy that made her). Mei has devoted most of her life to the school and her family legacy, making Yuzu part of that is a huge deal.

This chapter (7) Yuzu talks to her friends and thinks about what she what she wants from her relationship in the present, and sets out to get it. She gets her stolen moment, telling Mei what she is doing, that it is precious to her, and in the process showing her that if they understand their feelings, romance can be as simple as a few seconds together. And because she explained her feelings, Mei felt it too (remember this is Mei, who had a panic attack about deviating from that perfect date script).

Why should “a few stolen seconds” be a big deal when they live in same house and sleep together every night?

The only reason those moments can be made to seem especially significant is because we aren’t shown all the other minutes, hours, and days they implicitly spend together.

I seriously think Saburuta doesn't allow them to kiss or do more solely to keep the interest of the readers, because besides that, there's nothing else to look forward to the story. The new characters are just an excuse to keep the story going.

That's a bit of a harsh generalization. I'm so firmly attached to and in love with these characters that I could watche them in any number of situations and be entertained. And the new characters seem to have potential. Hopefully their motivations will be explored and they'll become welcome additions to the cast, unlike say the twins or Shirapon.

Also keep in mind, this is only Volume 2 out of of who knows how many. And the manga's popularity is still as high as ever. There's still plenty of room to explore Yuzu and Mei's relationship as well as the other characters.

You're free to have your own opinion and dislike this work, as all of your points are valid. But contrary to what this discussion may have you believe, some people, like myself, still love this story and these characters. Please don't invalidate that.

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 1:01AM

Now I haven’t re-read the series but from what I can recall, Mei and Yuzu aren’t at all acting out of character.

Mei’s hesitance to continue the previous sexual nature of their relationship seems to be rooted mostly in her lack of experience with romance. She knows about sex and lust but she doesn’t know about love.

Mei is essentially a robot trying to update her emotional system.

Yuzu hasn’t changed. She’s still considerate of Mei’s feelings but now, she’s also aware of Mei’s status. She pursued Mei relentlessly but realizes that Mei has responsibilities and there are consequences to their relationship which is why she’s bettering herself so she can stand by Mei and support her.

Mei is reciprocating in her way. She’s thinking about securing her future as Chairwoman as well as considering Yuzu.

She didn’t berate Yuzu for wanting to take the entrance exams at the school she wants to get into, isn’t telling her it’s a waste of time though it’s probably incredibly difficult to get into Mei’s college of choice.

Of course they know they love each other but they both also know there are other things they have to concern themselves with since it’s their last year in high school...

And if Yuzu is trying to get into Mei’s college she’s probably got her nose in books instead of Mei’s panties.

Perhaps the fact that Mei broke off her engagement, cancelled the wedding that Mei’s been preparing for during the months they were apart, abated her sexual desires somewhat. She’s still in cloud nine over the fact that Mei didn’t go through with it and before the red hot devil could poke and whisper ‘sex’, Mei hit her with that I love you for the first time so her giddiness is outweighing her sexual proclivities.

I’m in the minority but Citrus always felt very gratuitous to me so I’m enjoying the focus on subtle romance. This direction makes their inevitable sexual encounter more romantic and fruitful.

They both need to mature a little more, emotionally speaking.

As for the new characters, Sayaka seems to be robot Mei reincarnated. It’s like we’re being shown just how much Mei has changed thanks to Yuzu.

Of course, this is all just my interpretation of the story.

Why should “a few stolen seconds” be a big deal when they live in same house and sleep together every night?

And a posy is just lawn clippings... it is about the feelings behind it. I'm not sure why this needs explaining since getting a crazy high from being near each other is a thing in pretty much every love story ever written. Yuzu is talking a few seconds "off" to bask in her feelings at a time when she would otherwise have been doing something else. Love isn't really rational like that, even if we want to get animal behavioral science about it, regular little symbolic bonding gestures are important to reinforce pair bonds.

You're free to have your own opinion and dislike this work, as all of your points are valid. But contrary to what this discussion may have you believe, some people, like myself, still love this story and these characters. Please don't invalidate that.

I didn't invalidate anything. I'm aware that Citrus is really popular, and outside of this forum people don't really criticize it much. Just making an observation that I think this is author's strategy to keep the story going, since most of the side characters haven't really offered anything significant. Most of them except Matsuri and Harumin could be removed from the story without anything changing.
You might say for example, the twins have pushed Yuzu to confess, but this really was unnecessary since Yuzu could have decided to do that on her own without the whole "my fated person" thing from Sarah, and we could see a more introspective Yuzu.
Without the twins there could still be a confession, but with them we got like at least five extra chapters. So furthering the length of this manga.
Then, Harumin's sister. Again, unnecessary drama and she became quickly irrelevant after expanding the story.
So the twins, Nene, Shirapon, Harumin's sister all have taken up a significant length of the story, but are discardable.
Notice how I didn't mention side characters like Yuzu's mom, Mei's dad and grandad, Yuzu's friends from middle school, the manager who Mei was going to get married to. Because these characters have actually contributed important parts to the story.
And frankly, even with this push from everyone, Yuzu and Mei development is still really slow. It feels like we're going in cycles which makes me believe even more that this is a way from the author to just add length to the story.
I don't have a problem with slow development as long as it makes sense. And yeah, some people might say love is not logical, but someone's actions still have to be based on something. People are still not mindless creatures to be acting completely random from one day to the other.

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 7:53AM

Why should “a few stolen seconds” be a big deal when they live in same house and sleep together every night?

And a posy is just lawn clippings... it is about the feelings behind it. I'm not sure why this needs explaining since getting a crazy high from being near each other is a thing in pretty much every love story ever written. Yuzu is talking a few seconds "off" to bask in her feelings at a time when she would otherwise have been doing something else. Love isn't really rational like that, even if we want to get animal behavioral science about it, regular little symbolic bonding gestures are important to reinforce pair bonds.

Your delusion that you’re “explaining” something that anyone is unaware of is quite touching.

The fact remains that the only reason your point applies to this story is Sabu’s refusal to give us scenes of Mei and Yuzu cuddling in bed, holding hands on the sofa while watching a movie, painting each others’ toenails, taking a bath together, or all the other possible “pair bonding” activities available to two people who share a home and a bed.

But instead of depicting two young women in a committed relationship on the verge of adulthood at an age when many people get married, choose careers, join the military, etc., we’re presented with the behavior of a pair of 8th-graders in the throes of their first crush.

If anybody wants to call that “consistent characterization,” feel free to knock yourself out.

My only question is this... when are they gonna make out?
i feel like they drop flirtatious hints or subtext/undertones but so far i haven't seen any romance yet in this current manga. mostly its been character development and drama between people..?
I get it though they wanna add more plot twists/new characters/more drama to entice the story more which is great and all but i wouldnt mind seeing some actual Yuri being shown like at least a Date or Romantic time spent together between Yuzu and Mei ? they are officially going out right? thats the other thing which confused me did they have a legitimate confession? or was it just said but they dont feel emotionally comfortable? i dunno whats really going on here, im slightly confused lol

Also the pink haired girl which says this line:
"If you continue this relationship at Mei's pace... You'll turn into a grandma before you get Anywhere"

She has a point..
they started dating... but it doesn't seem to be GOING anywhere like, what is actually happening?
it seems Mei's personality has shifted from a sexual predator into a recluse scared person which has no idea how to confront Yuzu's feelings? its so weird how this story has changed. If she understands that she is loved by Yuzu why is it so hard to share your emotions or at least come clean about it? I also feel that this new character which is hating on Mei for the school rules and president role etc i feel shes going to blackmail Mei somehow by finding out the truth behind her Relationship with Yuzu? possibly..
eitherway this story confuses me Yuzu is blind aswell as oblivious to the facts and assumes the entire relationship is going smoothly whereas Mei is hiding her true feelings and wants to bury her head in the sand? mm okay lol

The only way this relationship can Go Forward is if Yuzu finally realises whats going on with Mei emotionally..
otherwise this is gonna be a revolving door of petty drama lol

last edited at Oct 20, 2019 9:30AM