but now it's stifling in the context of Yamada actually becoming a functional adult and expanding her horizons while Kase firmly tries to keep her the same.

I don't think she want her to stay the same but rather don't seem to trust her enough to be functional. The problem of Kase is she still think Yamada is a frail girl who need her protection but she doesn't seem to understand it's not the right behavior, she need to put more trust in Yamada.

Also, shoutout to Mikawacchi for being the ultimate wingwoman.

I'm starting to think she's in cahoots with a binocular-clad yurifan who conveniently calls her "for work" whenever it's time for KaseYama.

I would be a lot more patient with Kase's possessiveness if it were portrayed at all as an issue in their relationship that they need to work on but instead it's pretty clearly supposed to be viewed as romantic and chivalrous which is just not how I'm going to view trying to control what your partner wears or where she goes. This continuation has a lot less of the charm of the original series and I think it's largely because Kase's protectiveness of Yamada was cute in the contained and familiar context of high school but now it's stifling in the context of Yamada actually becoming a functional adult and expanding her horizons while Kase firmly tries to keep her the same.

I’d put it a slightly different way—I’d prefer to see Yamada put in more situations where she was actually expanding her horizons and growing as a person rather than seeing her (and karp is correct here) in more “Super-girlfriend to the rescue” situations.

But I’d say that we haven’t actually seen Kase’s possessiveness hinder Yamada’s growth or deny her the chance to do something worth doing (which does not include that horrible singles bar).

If the series is ever going to show real maturing in their relationship (as opposed to being, in essence, an expanded-format 4koma-esque repetitive comedy series), yes, the possessiveness (as well as Yamada’s cluelessness) would be the issues that need to be addressed. But I don’t think we’ve seen any actual harm or specific instances of stunted personal growth from either of those traits just yet.

last edited at Oct 4, 2019 4:16PM

Well, Kase has been conscious of being a lesbian and struggling to find a partner she could love and trust for a long time. Probably at least since middle-school.

Yamada had everything on a platter, being chased by Kase and al.

I understand that Kase is terrified to lose Yamada, for any reason. She's very insecure. Hence, the possessiveness.

And I can totally empathize with that.

I’d put it a slightly different way—I’d prefer to see Yamada put in more situations where she was actually expanding her horizons and growing as a person rather than seeing her (and karp is correct here) in more “Super-girlfriend to the rescue” situations.

But I’d say that we haven’t actually seen Kase’s possessiveness hinder Yamada’s growth or deny her the chance to do something worth doing (which does not include that horrible singles bar).

If the series is ever going to show real maturing in their relationship (as opposed to being, in essence, an expanded-format 4koma-esque repetitive comedy series), yes, the possessiveness (as well as Yamada’s cluelessness) would be the issues that need to be addressed. But I don’t think we’ve seen any actual harm or specific instances of stunted personal growth from either of those traits just yet.

See that's the series I had originally hoped this would be: Yamada and Kase maturing together and helping each other grow. But instead they're in this stasis that's frequently pretty awkward and off putting as Yamada continues to basically be a child despite moving out and going to college. Kase's behaviour isn't visibly stunting Yamada's growth because the author is already doing so. In a work where characters were actually allowed to develop Kase's hovering and tendency to yank Yamada out of challenging situations would definitely be counterproductive to her learning to deal with those situations.

It’s true—the unexpected Kase rescue is one of the repeated tropes of the series. The negative reading you prefer to put on it depends on a great deal of imagining that this series isn’t this series but some other, more realistic and psychologically toxic series.

Actually the same could be said for almost any series you can think of—change the premises, change the art style, put a different spin on the expressions and body language, and you can make YagaKimi, Hana ni Arashi, or Isn’t the Moon Beautiful? into horrifying cautionary tales of dysfunctional relationships. So what?

I mean... if your point is that yuri as a genre often has lots of tropes that are creepy when you think about them for five seconds, I totally agree with you. The fact that authors often appear unaware they're replaying these tropes (or worse, as I suspect, is deliberately recreating the tropes because they like them) doesn't make things better.

Similarly, the author could have chosen to NOT portray Yamada as a tiny child who can't take care of herself, but instead, she puts on shoes that render her unable to walk. And again... Kase is there!

Sorry, now you’re just being ridiculous—it’s an inalterable law in Japan that the first time anyone wears geta to a fireworks festival they are required to injure their feet and need band-aids from a Good Samaritan. (Also unaccustomed high heels at an amusement park.)

OK like again, the author could have just... not included that trope? She didn't have to be wearing those shoes.

Yamada's foot thing means that Kase showed up out of nowhere and interjected herself unexpectedly into Yamada's night for her own good. See what I'm getting at? Yamada was happy Kase showed up (of course she was, because it's the point of the manga), but even if she hadn't been, Kase giving her a piggy-back ride was the solution to her unrelated problem.

If you are on this site long enough I can't really believe that the whole "top & bottom" talk can somehow pass you by. People seem incredibly obsessed with these power dynamics in fact.

For real. It's such an absurdly common theme that I kinda get tired of it, as someone who prefers switches.

I mean... if your point is that yuri as a genre often has lots of tropes that are creepy when you think about them for five seconds, I totally agree with you.

No, my point is that “creepy is as creepy does.” You seem to regard these tropes as having an independent existence and defined significance outside of the context of their specific deployment in a given story.

Sure, it’s possible to paraphrase or to imagine hypothetical changes to almost any story that will change its tone or thematic import. That doesn’t necessarily make for a convincing reading of any particular story, however.

Also, like when has Yamada been negatively affected by Kase’s occasional bouts of possessiveness? She hardly ever seems to even notice it.

Missed opportunity for a princess carry. Better luck next time, Yamada!

Missed opportunity for a princess carry.

But then Kase wouldn't be able to feel Yamada's Yamadas on her back.

I feel frustrated over all the last chapters. I feel as if Yamada and Kase meet or spend time together like for several pages in 4-5 chapters. On the other pages it is always something like “oh Kase is/will be/was busy with camp/tournament/training so we can’t meet”, then in every situation Kase suddenly shows up in the fucking end, that’s all. Always the same scenario, always little time together because of stupid reasons. Just...ugh.

It's a sweet chapter.

All you people arguing about stupid stuff are weird.

last edited at Oct 4, 2019 6:32PM

For anyone interested in seeing both Kase-san and Yamada in yukatas, there is a picture of it on the cover of a CD that was released with the movie. It also includes an audio drama of Kase-san and Yamada attending the festival and watching the fireworks during the summer of their last year at high school.
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71Kuqxy9SKL._SS500_.jpg

It's a sweet chapter.

All you people arguing about stupid stuff are weird.

Fr it could have also been added for comedy purposes

last edited at Oct 4, 2019 7:08PM

It's a sweet chapter.

All you people arguing about stupid stuff are weird.

Fr it could have also been added for comedy purposes

Of course it was supposed to be funny. If you see it as being about Kase’s over-the-top adoration of Yamada’s sexiness, that’s exactly what it is.

There are a number of readers, however, who react very negatively to (what they see as) Kase’s overprotectiveness and controlling behavior, hence the “what if this were real life?” and “what if Kase were a guy?”-type questions.

As I said, ideally I’d prefer to see more “Yamada grows up” scenes interspersed with the “Kase saves the day” ones.

I’m not about to get pissed off about it, though.

Last time I visit this thread. I can't believe so many people are bashing my favorite couple. Talk about messed up. :((

I mean... if your point is that yuri as a genre often has lots of tropes that are creepy when you think about them for five seconds, I totally agree with you.

No, my point is that “creepy is as creepy does.” You seem to regard these tropes as having an independent existence and defined significance outside of the context of their specific deployment in a given story.

Sure, it’s possible to paraphrase or to imagine hypothetical changes to almost any story that will change its tone or thematic import. That doesn’t necessarily make for a convincing reading of any particular story, however.

It's MORE creepy if it's portrayed as sweet and good, not less. That's kinda all that's creepy about it! If this story was about questioning or deconstructing all this stuff, it'd be way less of a problem.

I know it's a sweet, light manga. I know the author intends it all to be cute and wonderful. That's the whole point.
Yamada's a grown woman portrayed as helpless at everything, and she's shown to be repeatedly in need of Kase's help and protection (none of which she's ever shown asking for: Kase just provides it because she's hyperprotective). That's screwed up. Yamada's never unhappy about it? Yeah, I know: it's screwed up that it's written that way. Their dynamic is based on Kase's controlling instincts being good and right, because Yamada's a tiny child whose innocence must be preserved, and because the author clearly enjoys that exact fantasy.

I mean seriously, we have actually seen people say here in this very exact thread that Kase trying to control what Yamada wears is justified (and actually cute!) because Kase just finds Yamada so sexy and wonderful. That is in so many words precisely something people say to defend abusive partners. I am not saying Kase is abusive, but you should seriously start raising eyebrows about the author if people start using exactly the same language to defend her that's used to defend abusive partners. Having a screwed-up relationship based around fulfilling unhealthy fantasies, and then portraying it as sweet and nice, is worse because it causes people to interpret the screwed-up relationship positively.

last edited at Oct 4, 2019 7:43PM

It's a sweet chapter.

All you people arguing about stupid stuff are weird.

Fr it could have also been added for comedy purposes

Of course it was supposed to be funny. If you see it as being about Kase’s over-the-top adoration of Yamada’s sexiness, that’s exactly what it is.

There are a number of readers, however, who react very negatively to (what they see as) Kase’s overprotectiveness and controlling behavior, hence the “what if this were real life?” and “what if Kase were a guy?”-type questions.

As I said, ideally I’d prefer to see more “Yamada grows up” scenes interspersed with the “Kase saves the day” ones.

I’m not about to get pissed off about it, though.

Come on don't pull the ole "everyone else is being overemotional" thing that's just dismissive and uncool.

you don't deny it thought

It's MORE creepy if it's portrayed as sweet and good, not less. That's kinda all that's creepy about it! If this story was about questioning or deconstructing all this stuff, it'd be way less of a problem.

It always throws me when people are like "well the author portrayed this creepy thing as good so why are you still creeped out by it?" Because it's a creepy thing. Draping it in shoujo flowers doesn't make it less creepy it just adds dissonance that makes it even creepier because now I feel like I'm in the dang Twilight Zone.

you don't deny it thought

Having emotions isn't a shortcoming.

You act like Kase is always on Yamada's back tolding her what she can do when Kase's comment on the yukata is more likely for Kase herself having trouble to keep her hormones in check when Yamada is wearing something "sexy".

You act like Kase is always on Yamada's back tolding her what she can do when Kase's comment on the yukata is more likely for Kase herself having trouble to keep her hormones in check when Yamada is wearing something "sexy".

Literally the strongest critique I made of Kase's behaviour was to describe it as "awkward and off putting" stop trying to pretend I decried her as some evil manipulator.

I mean... if your point is that yuri as a genre often has lots of tropes that are creepy when you think about them for five seconds, I totally agree with you.

No, my point is that “creepy is as creepy does.” You seem to regard these tropes as having an independent existence and defined significance outside of the context of their specific deployment in a given story.

Sure, it’s possible to paraphrase or to imagine hypothetical changes to almost any story that will change its tone or thematic import. That doesn’t necessarily make for a convincing reading of any particular story, however.

It's MORE creepy if it's portrayed as sweet and good, not less. That's kinda all that's creepy about it! If this story was about questioning or deconstructing all this stuff, it'd be way less of a problem.

Once again, you assume this behavior (or rather, your particular re-interpretation/rephrasing of it) has an innate value separate from any particular manifestation or depiction of it, so of course you can’t come to any other conclusion than you do.

It’s not how I read texts, because I don’t see it as a very useful or enlightening way to do it. So it seems our mileage certainly does vary.