GOOD RIDDANCE, it could have been the best yuri of late, but the author said: Nah, this world could use more useless drama, because why not

Yes, still salty, forever salty, team salty

Nothing like setting up an intense emotional dilemma, then handwaving it away with a bunch of glitter and floaty hearts.

Well we are reading yuri.

Just how lowly do you think of the Yuri genre that you equate half-assed writing with it?
Bad writing or issues with the plot/consistency always should be pointed out and critisized, unless it's a surreal comedy where plot doesn't matter.

If readers are mindlessly content with everything they are fed, no writer can ever improve.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 2:20AM

Rushed manga is rushed.

Kinda wished they would have got the senpai involved though.

Missed opportunities.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 8:11AM

The sudden wedding dress flashforward was a nice flourish.

Nothing like setting up an intense emotional dilemma, then handwaving it away with a bunch of glitter and floaty hearts.

Well we are reading yuri.

Just how lowly do you think of the Yuri genre that you equate half-assed writing with it?
Bad writing or issues with the plot/consistency always should be pointed out and critisized, unless it's a surreal comedy where plot doesn't matter.

If readers are mindlessly content with everything they are fed, no writer can ever improve.

Cliche Yuri tropes got me into the genre and cliche Yuri tropes made me stay. I don't want good writing in my Yuri. If I wanted to feel I'd go read a book or something.

Yuri is a fairytale, it is by its nature anthithesis to what is considered "good writing" nowadays. Nowadays people consider realism and drama to be "good writing". But I don't want realism or drama in my Yuri. I want to see girls living a lighthearted life and falling in love light-heartedly. I don't want conflict or drama, I want fluff and happiness. I want happy smiles and girls being cute. I want all problems to go away in the face of Yuri.

I'm here to read the same cliche Yuri tropes over and over again, and it seems everyone else wants the same.

This is what authors like to draw and what people like to read.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 10:08AM

Cliche Yuri tropes got me into the genre and cliche Yuri tropes made me stay. I don't want good writing in my Yuri. If I wanted to feel I'd go read a book or something.

Yuri is a fairytale, it is by its nature anthithesis to what is considered "good writing" nowadays. Nowadays people consider realism and drama to be "good writing". But I don't want realism or drama in my Yuri. I want to see girls living a lighthearted life and falling in love light-heartedly. I don't want conflict or drama, I want fluff and happiness. I want happy smiles and girls being cute. I want all problems to go away in the face of Yuri.

I'm here to read the same cliche Yuri tropes over and over again, and it seems everyone else wants the same.

This is what authors like to draw and what people like to read. Leave it alone.

You made up a definition of yuri for yourself out of sheer escapsim? I'm impressed.
Look, you can enjoy whatever you want. If you love seeing and reading the exact same tropes for the hundreth time without any effort put into them, that is all well and good.

The problem here is that Luminous=Blue is not that. It never was that and the author had no intention of making it that. There was drama, there was a deeper reflection on characters and not just mindless repetitive tropes. It wasn't just fluff. It attempted to have good writing.
So an unsatisfying, rushed conclusion without any of the story's potential coming to fruit is a shame. It's a tragedy.

You can have good writing without drama, by the way. But you can never have good stories with lazy, repetitive and uninspired writing. And you only consider your own preferences here. You never think of the writer. Authors don't want to stagnate, they want to write something good. Without constructive feedback, it won't happen.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 10:15AM

I'm here to read the same cliche Yuri tropes over and over again, and it seems everyone else wants the same.

Completely and utterly, delusionally false.

that ending came out of nowhere.

sad this got axed and had to be rushed with this ending.

I'm here to read the same cliche Yuri tropes over and over again, and it seems everyone else wants the same.

Completely and utterly, delusionally false.

This isn't a point I really care to argue. As you said, if that was the case the authors would have written the story differently.

If you survey the landscape Yuri is filled with bad writing and cliches. The few stories that could be considered to have "good writing" are few and far between or devolve into Yuri cliches half way through. This story is an example right here.

What good will blaming the authors or some greater power? Yuri isn't this way because some God or abstract "society" didn't care to make it better. Yuri is this way because people want it to be. That's the only explanation.

I'm ok with that though. This is the way it's meant to be.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 11:46AM

I'm here to read the same cliche Yuri tropes over and over again, and it seems everyone else wants the same.

Completely and utterly, delusionally false.

This isn't a point I really care to argue. As you said, if that was the case the authors would have written the story differently.

If you survey the landscape Yuri is filled with bad writing and cliches. The few stories that could be considered to have "good writing" are few and far between or devolve into Yuri cliches half way through. This story is an example right here.

What good will blaming the authors or some greater power? Yuri isn't this way because some God or abstract "society" didn't care to make it better. Yuri is this way because people want it to be. That's the only explanation.

I'm ok with that though. This is the way it's meant to be.

Your description is also quite false. As in any narrative genre, there are plenty of very mediocre examples of yuri manga. There are also exceptional examples, and examples of everything in between.

The complacent assumption that everyone shares both your values and evaluations is completely unwarranted.

As you said, if that was the case the authors would have written the story differently.

One imagines the series suddenly having a date with Mme Guillotine scheduled may rather have had something to do with it. Tends to force the author's hand more than a bit that.

If you survey the landscape Yuri is filled with bad writing and cliches. The few stories that could be considered to have "good writing" are few and far between or devolve into Yuri cliches half way through. This story is an example right here.

...may I direct you to Sturgeon's Law? I've parsed enough manga - and popular culture in general - to firmly hold that "90% of everything is crap" is a fact thoroughly genre-blind.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 12:16PM

Your description is also quite false. As in any narrative genre, there are plenty of very mediocre examples of yuri manga. There are also exceptional examples, and examples of everything in between.

And yet, despite this mediocrity these thing have not been taken out by public opinion.

You mentioned that other genres also have mediocre titles. Random mentioned Sturgeon's law. Is this not an admission that no matter which genre you go to, most of its consumers do not care about what you consider "good"?

I think this does mean most of Yuri consumers agree with me. We take delight in the mediocrity of Yuri. You are the elitist who always have to find fault with everything that doesn't suit your liking.

You can try to convince me and my like-minded comrades that we are wrong. But you cannot deny our existence nor deny us what we want.

Yuri monsters of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains! We will overthrow the oppressive regime of these supposed intellectuals! We will take back Yuri and put it in the hands of the people!

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 12:33PM

You can try to convince me and my like-minded comrades that we are wrong. But you cannot deny our existence nor deny us what we want.

I would never try to convince you that you're wrong; that's obviously a hopeless task.

I'm content to just call out fatuous generalizations when they appear.

I think this does mean most of Yuri consumers agree with me. We take delight in the mediocrity of Yuri. You are the elitist who always have to find fault with everything that doesn't suit your liking.

You can try to convince me and my like-minded comrades that we are wrong. But you cannot deny our existence nor deny us what we want.

Nonsense. The reason mediocre stuff survives is that there is not enough good stuff. That is not an admission that people like mediocre stuff. Good writing is hard, therefore most supply will be mediocre or bad, even though the demand is for good writing. Why do you think well written stories always top the charts and are phenomena? Because people want good writing. There is so little of it that people jump on it and try to suck every last bit out of it (that's why good series get milked btw).

The flipside of this argument is also this: Most people that like a mediocre fluff story don't actually think it's mediocre most of the time. That's because people enjoy different things more than others. Someone who is really into animal girls will find animal girl yuri so appealing that bad writing has less of an impact on them, so they don't see it as mediocre, but as outstanding.

Nobody I have ever talked to revels in mediocrity, except you. There are no allies on your side. You are the exception.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 12:39PM

The flipside of this argument is also this: Most people that like a mediocre fluff story don't actually think it's mediocre most of the time. That's because people enjoy different things more than others. Someone who is really into animal girls will find animal girl yuri so appealing that bad writing has less of an impact on them, so they don't see it as mediocre, but as outstanding.

Well, there you go. I don't care for mediocrity itself. I simply do not agree with your judgement about what is mediocre.

What I am trying to prove with my survey is to show you for whatever reason people are OK with what you call mediocre. Perhaps this means you should not be so quick to judge?

I don't want people to diminish the enjoyment of those who like these stories by calling it "mediocre".

If however, you continue to pass judgement about what is and is not "mediocre" Then I will continue to defend mediocrity.

Because I am a champion of the people! I hear the calling of my fellow Yuri fanatics, and am driven to defend them! Have at you!

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 12:44PM

The flipside of this argument is also this: Most people that like a mediocre fluff story don't actually think it's mediocre most of the time. That's because people enjoy different things more than others. Someone who is really into animal girls will find animal girl yuri so appealing that bad writing has less of an impact on them, so they don't see it as mediocre, but as outstanding.

Well, there you go. I don't care for mediocrity itself. I simply do not agree with your judgement about what is mediocre.

What I am trying to prove with my survey is to show you for whatever reason people are OK with what you call mediocre. Perhaps this means you should not be so quick to judge?

I don't want people to diminish the enjoyment of those who like these stories by calling it "mediocre".

If however, you continue to pass judgement about what is and is not "mediocre" Then I will continue to defend mediocrity.

Because I am a champion of the people! I hear the calling of my fellow Yuri fanatics, and am driven to defend them! Have at you!

Oh, I see--a troll. Well played, then.

Bye.

What I am trying to prove with my survey is to show you for whatever reason people are OK with what you call mediocre. Perhaps this means you should not be so quick to judge?

No what you were trying to prove is that bad writing in general and the rushed ending of this in particular are good and represent how yuri should be. Which they are not.

I don't want people to diminish the enjoyment of those who like these stories by calling it "mediocre".

What you really want to avoid is to accept that sometimes people can dislike something for good reasons.

Because I am a champion of the people! I hear the calling of my fellow Yuri fanatics, and am driven to defend them! Have at you!

Everyone on this unholy site is a yuri fan. You only defend yourself and nobody else.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 3:23PM

Oh, I see--a troll. Well played, then.

Sigh. And this is why every piece of fluffy Yuri on this site has to be filled with many comments about bad writing. People who like the average Yuri story are trolls now? Can we not just enjoy all kinds of Yuri without being so critical?

No what you were trying to prove is that bad writing in general and the rushed ending of this in particular are good. Which they are not.

In this thread alone there are a lot of people who say they like the ending. I just happen to agree and have an interest in discussing it.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 12:59PM

Hollows posted:

Oh, I see--a troll. Well played, then.

Sigh. And this is why every piece of fluffy Yuri on this site has to be filled with many comments about bad writing. People who like the average Yuri story are trolls now? Can we not just enjoy all kinds of Yuri without being so critical?

You're a troll because of the way you are arguing, not because you like the story.

No what you were trying to prove is that bad writing in general and the rushed ending of this in particular are good. Which they are not.

In this thread alone there are a lot of people who say they like the ending. I just happen to agree and have an interest in discussing it.

Most people who "liked" this ending just said "Oh it's poly? Great!" They liked the outcome, not how we got there. Most likely not really invested into the story to begin with, which makes it easier to ignore flaws.
Others (myself included) saw the flaws, but still thought the story itself had merit and that the ending at the very least was intended from the start.
Then the majority is just confused or caught off guard by the sudden end and don't know what to make of it.
And yes, some hate it, which is not unreasonable either.

You aren't actually open to discussing the content however, only defending your stance on liking it in itself. I have absolutely no faith whatosever that you can make a legitimate argument why this rushed ending was genuinly good and not just barely acceptable for what it was.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 1:38PM

Wow. So much wrong statements, I don't even know where to start. I'll just sum it up for you. Everyone has their own opinion on what is good and bad. There's no objective standard on that. You're free to have your bar as low as you want. Just don't get angry at and complain about people who don't agree with your opinion. You lost this argument the moment you tried to represent all yuri fans and said "yuri fans don't care about quality and only want escapism". That's factually not true, proven by yuri fans immediately disagreeing with that statement. That's what Blastaar was getting at.

I get where you're coming from. I'm usually not very picky about quality, as long as I'm enjoying it. I usually prefer to read light-hearted, drama free, fluffy yuri too. But I can recognize that not all works are equal. When something is done well, I can get more enjoyment from it. And poor execution can be the reason why I didn't like something. Also depending on my mood I don't mind more realistic or tragic stories. So again, #notallyurifans.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 2:49PM

Why do you think well written stories always top the charts and are phenomena?

Gentle reminder that Citrus is the best-selling yuri manga of all time last I heard and, on a more general note, I really hope you aren't trying to make an argument that the most popular manga/anime/movie/novel/*anything* in general are so because they are paragons of thoughtful writing. That is almost never the case and one of the most fallacious arguments you could ever make.

Gentle reminder that - and this is something I give profound thanks for nearly everyday now - the Japanese authors of the vast majority of these works do not read this site and are blissfully unaware of Western yuri fans' self-important views on how they should do their job better. You are not giving feedback to the author here, so stop pretending that. You are only wallowing publicly in your own sense of superiority, writing post after essay-like post to no real effect except propping up how much better your tastes in Japanese schoolgirl lesbian fantasy stories are compared to others'. Please gain even a tiny bit of self-awareness about how far you are going (and habitually go) to belabor this point.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 3:05PM

^ Once again, your powers of mind-reading about other people’s motivations are truly amazing—and by “amazing” I mean “filled with your own peculiar brand of delusional sense of self-importance.”

The people who write “essay-like posts” do it (I know this because it’s true of me and others have said so) because they enjoy reading these stories, thinking about them, and communicating their thoughts, and (often although not always) getting feedback from similar readers about those thoughts.

I couldn’t care less whether “Japanese authors” read my posts—they have their job to do and they do it. More condescending lectures and spurious mindreading isn’t going to change how readers respond to that work, either.

last edited at Sep 26, 2019 3:12PM

Why do you think well written stories always top the charts and are phenomena?

Gentle reminder that Citrus is the best-selling yuri manga of all time and, on a more general note, I really hope you aren't trying to make an argument that the most popular manga/anime/movie/novel/*anything* in general are so because they are paragons of thoughtful writing. That is almost never the case and one of the most fallacious arguments you could ever make.

Cute. Have I said that only well written stories sell? No I have not. I am saying well written things always attract people.
Citrus for all its flaws has it's own advantages and gets a lot of flak without actually taking into account what it did right.

A hundred mediocre stories will paddle around the middle of a top 100 list, one or two outrageous attention grabbing things will make it into the top 10 and the rest will be something with actual merit in one way or another.

Gentle reminder that - and this is something I give profound thanks for nearly everyday now - the Japanese authors of the vast majority of these works do not read this site and are blissfully unaware of Western yuri fans' self-important views on how they should do their job better. You are not giving feedback to the author here, so stop pretending that. You are only wallowing publicly in your own sense of superiority, writing post after essay-like post to no real effect except propping up how much better your tastes in Japanese schoolgirl lesbian fantasy stories are compared to others'. Please gain even a tiny bit of self-awareness about how far you are going (and habitually go) to belabor this point.

Not so cute.

A not so gentle reminder to you then that whether an author actually reads criticisms or not, does not invalidate said criticism in any way. When I say that works have to be critisized and taken under examination, I am not saying that some random forum will actually change anything. It's about the general attitude many people have to just nod along and ignore any flaws whatsoever. If analyzing literature is treated like a nuisance, discourse about it becomes meaningless. You can be sure that everything people say here is also said to the author directly, both by the Editor and by the official influencers that actually have an effect.
I positively despise your insinuation that somehow being in the West or East makes any difference in this topic whatsoever. You think Japanese readers don't have opinions like this? What a joke.

Another belabored point that always gets thrown around by people like you is the "you write essay long replies". This is a non-sequitur and pure mudslinging. You should be ashamed.

Is it not typical that instead of addressing any points you resort to insulting me?