I'd prefer it there's no drama in SoL stories like this because it's usually drama for the sake of drama and it doesn't really impact the characters' relationships when the drama is over, as in things go the way it used to as usual.

Would be nice if there's some changes because of Igarashi, like Chidori announces Nanoha is her girlfriend to Igarashi and Chidori's friends heard it so them dating isn't a secret anymore.

FUCK DRAMA
They better talk or I'll snap

I really like this storm bringer.

Hmmm... I feel like I'm among the last people to notice this, but...

Hana ni Arashi
Ig**arashi**

?

Lol. Nanoha doesn't seem to know how big of a threat she is to Igarashi.

Lol. Nanoha doesn't seem to know how big of a threat she is to Igarashi.

Yeah, it feels like a class bully returning to harass an old victim, unaware that in the interim their victim has become the sidekick to a superhero.

Hmmm... I feel like I'm among the last people to notice this, but...

Hana ni Arashi
Ig**arashi**

?

The name use on the cover is Nanoha to Chidori tho.

That’s an interesting reading that would make for a more sympathetic character. All of those reasons are very solid and realistic. But just because your behavior is understandable in this light or given that justification doesn’t necessitate the benefit of the doubt or the forgiveness of others. Especially if that’s something you can’t even bring yourself to ask for. There are circumstances in which we allow people to hurt us out of clumsiness or a lack of finesse, but we’re never obligated to do so. If someone does something rude to me, I have to be motivated to reframe or justify that — if it’s someone I don’t care for then it’s easier to just say they’re an asshole and move on.

I absolutely agree. Forgiveness cannot be "owed". I believe that each person has the right to reserve their sympathy for those they feel like granting it to. In this situation, Chidori would have no obligation to care about or even to listen to Igarashi's justifications. But as a reader, it's fun to think about.

As for the "liar" at the end of the chapter, I honestly don't know who's thinking it, but I'm pretty sure it's referring back to their agreement to discuss their problems between them. I believe it's Nanoha thinking that to herself. She'd just made a big deal about how they should be open about their worries and feelings with each other, and then she tells Chidori something didn't bother her when it obviously did. Though Chidori wasn't exactly being forthright with her either, so it could either way.

Hmmm... I feel like I'm among the last people to notice this, but...

Hana ni Arashi
Ig**arashi**

?

Oh, I didn't even think about that. Her name is even spelled with 嵐 in it.... Kovachi Luka's being cute.

The name use on the cover is Nanoha to Chidori tho.

Every cover has はなにあらし written across it in huge letters, and then "Nanoha to Chidori" (in English) as a kind of subtitle I guess.

last edited at Aug 13, 2019 10:04AM

As for the "liar" at the end of the chapter, I honestly don't know who's thinking it, but I'm pretty sure it's referring back to their agreement to discuss their problems between them. I believe it's Nanoha thinking that to herself. She'd just made a big deal about how they should be open about their worries and feelings with each other, and then she tells Chidori something didn't bother her when it obviously did. Though Chidori wasn't exactly being forthright with her either, so it could either way.

Bog-standard relationship behavior, though. Igarashi passed the "ex-girlfriend" thing off as a joke, so what exactly can Nanoha specify as being worrisome (except a pretty sempai obviously flirting with her secret girlfriend)?

Those "it bothered me even though I know it shouldn't" conversations can be pretty fraught--why raise an issue when there's no evidence there's actually a real issue?

Bog-standard relationship behavior, though. Igarashi passed the "ex-girlfriend" thing off as a joke, so what exactly can Nanoha specify as being worrisome (except a pretty sempai obviously flirting with her secret girlfriend)?

Those "it bothered me even though I know it shouldn't" conversations can be pretty fraught--why raise an issue when there's no evidence there's actually a real issue?

Yeah. I think one of the major reasons to have a rule like "we should discuss things openly with each other" is to apply to situations like this, where you don't really want to bring something up because it feels bad to talk about it. Being able to say, "I don't think you did anything wrong, but this situation makes me anxious/sad/upset" is a very important skill in relationships.

That....that..

Bog-standard relationship behavior, though. Igarashi passed the "ex-girlfriend" thing off as a joke, so what exactly can Nanoha specify as being worrisome (except a pretty sempai obviously flirting with her secret girlfriend)?

Those "it bothered me even though I know it shouldn't" conversations can be pretty fraught--why raise an issue when there's no evidence there's actually a real issue?

Yeah. I think one of the major reasons to have a rule like "we should discuss things openly with each other" is to apply to situations like this, where you don't really want to bring something up because it feels bad to talk about it. Being able to say, "I don't think you did anything wrong, but this situation makes me anxious/sad/upset" is a very important skill in relationships.

Pop psychologists have a distinction between issues raised for “problem-solving,” where someone is asking for advice or help with something, and those that are simply “troubles talk,” i.e., venting, needing to get something off one’s chest, etc.

Things can go very wrong in a conversation when one partner responds to “troubles talk” by trying to problem-solve, or when the other partner thinks they’re being asked to problem-solve when they have no way to solve the problem. (People don’t necessarily learn to lead with that crucial “I know it’s not your fault/I’m not blaming you” gambit when doing troubles talk.)

So if Nanoha were to say, “I was really bothered by the way that sempai was acting towards you,” Chidori might very well respond that it wasn’t her fault, and that she couldn’t control what sempai did.

Come on, like senpai really forgot that she was the one who rejected Chidori. She's manipulative as fuck. How can she expect forgiveness after ending on such a bitter note before? I don't understand her end goal.

In a sense, Igarashi never actually rejected Chidori. Chidori confronted her about the fact that she had a boyfriend and she didn't deny it. Then Igarashi tried to get Chidori back on Valentine's Day. We don't know whether she wanted her back as a side piece while she was still dating her boyfriend or if she'd decided that she really wasn't into men and wanted Chidori, but it was too late because Chidori couldn't trust her after she dismissed the concept of them being together because they were both women and didn't tell her about her boyfriend in the first place.

But, in truth, Igarashi was never the one to do the rejecting. It was Chidori.

Hmmm... I feel like I'm among the last people to notice this, but...

Hana ni Arashi
Ig**arashi**

?

Oh, I didn't even think about that. Her name is even spelled with 嵐 in it.... Kovachi Luka's being cute.

The name use on the cover is Nanoha to Chidori tho.

Every cover has はなにあらし written across it in huge letters, and then "Nanoha to Chidori" (in English) as a kind of subtitle I guess.

Well... "Hana ni Arashi" can be translated as "Flowers after the Storm" or perhaps, like the title of Chapter 47 coming up, according to the table of contents listed in Chapter 37, "Flowers after the Rain". I would say that is the main title and that "Nanoha to Chidori" ("Nanoha and Chidori" if you are translating it) is the subtitle.

I'd say that the only association between the title and Igarashi's name is the fact that she brings a "Storm" (Arashi) to Chidori and Nanoha's relationship.

As for the "Liar" at the end, the words being recalled while they held hands: "We should really discuss things and make decisions together." are Nanoha's, so I suspect that is Chidori remembering Nanoha saying that to her and thinking that this is really something they should discuss, but Nanoha is the one who shut down conversation about it, saying she wasn't worried. So I'd say it's either Chidori thinking that Nanoha is lying about being worried or Nanoha lied about wanting to discuss things together like this.

Pop psychologists have a distinction between issues raised for “problem-solving,” where someone is asking for advice or help with something, and those that are simply “troubles talk,” i.e., venting, needing to get something off one’s chest, etc.

Things can go very wrong in a conversation when one partner responds to “troubles talk” by trying to problem-solve, or when the other partner thinks they’re being asked to problem-solve when they have no way to solve the problem. (People don’t necessarily learn to lead with that crucial “I know it’s not your fault/I’m not blaming you” gambit when doing troubles talk.)

So if Nanoha were to say, “I was really bothered by the way that sempai was acting towards you,” Chidori might very well respond that it wasn’t her fault, and that she couldn’t control what sempai did.

I don't think that's really relevant to the situation. Chidori began to explain her relationship with Igarashi to Nanoha, and then Nanoha interrupted her to say it's no big deal and doesn't bother her.

Well... "Hana ni Arashi" can be translated as "Flowers after the Storm" or perhaps, like the title of Chapter 47 coming up, according to the table of contents listed in Chapter 37, "Flowers after the Rain". I would say that is the main title and that "Nanoha to Chidori" ("Nanoha and Chidori" if you are translating it) is the subtitle.

"Hana ni arashi" is part of a saying, "tsuki ni murakumo, hana ni arashi," about how good things in life are fleeting and easily ruined; nothing good in life lasts as long as you wish. Maybe even that misfortune is most common at times of great happiness. The title of chapter 47 is ameagari no hana, which actually means "flowers after the rain". The title is definitely Hana ni Arashi, because that's what the publisher and the author call the series.

I'd say that the only association between the title and Igarashi's name is the fact that she brings a "Storm" (Arashi) to Chidori and Nanoha's relationship.

Yes, that's what I mean by saying that the author is being cute. Putting a character's role in the story into their name is a little silly, but surprisingly common in manga.

last edited at Aug 13, 2019 11:59AM

Pop psychologists have a distinction between issues raised for “problem-solving,” where someone is asking for advice or help with something, and those that are simply “troubles talk,” i.e., venting, needing to get something off one’s chest, etc.

Things can go very wrong in a conversation when one partner responds to “troubles talk” by trying to problem-solve, or when the other partner thinks they’re being asked to problem-solve when they have no way to solve the problem. (People don’t necessarily learn to lead with that crucial “I know it’s not your fault/I’m not blaming you” gambit when doing troubles talk.)

So if Nanoha were to say, “I was really bothered by the way that sempai was acting towards you,” Chidori might very well respond that it wasn’t her fault, and that she couldn’t control what sempai did.

I don't think that's really relevant to the situation. Chidori began to explain her relationship with Igarashi to Nanoha, and then Nanoha interrupted her to say it's no big deal and doesn't bother her.

I'm talking about what one partner thinks is worth bringing up to the other when taking into account the risk of creating a misunderstanding or seeming to complain about something the other person has no control over.

The previous agreement between Nanoha and Chidori was "We should really discuss things and make decisions together," which is not quite the same as "We should always tell each other exactly how things make us feel." (In other words, "Let's not make unilateral decisions for the other person" rather than, "Let's always say what's on our minds.")

So from Nanoha's POV, she has no reason to say anything except, "It's fine."

last edited at Aug 13, 2019 11:59AM

I'm talking about what one partner thinks is worth bringing up to the other when taking into account the risk of creating a misunderstanding or seeming to complain about something the other person has no control over.

The previous agreement between Nanoha and Chidori was "We should really discuss things and make decisions together," which is not quite the same as "We should always tell each other exactly how things make us feel." (In other words, "Let's not make unilateral decisions for the other person" rather than, "Let's always say what's on our minds.")

So from Nanoha's POV, she has no reason to say anything except, "It's fine."

I wouldn't judge that agreement by the exact words they used to make it. Especially since those are my words, not the author's, and translation is an imperfect art (at least when I'm the one doing the translation). It wasn't just about making decisions together, but talking through problems together. Judging by Nanoha's reaction, she has an issue with what happened. It upset her. But when given an opportunity to discuss it with Chidori and deal with it directly, she turned her down. So I'd say she broke the promise she'd just made.

Edit: what I'm trying to say is maybe I screwed up the wording there, but my impression was that the "liar" line definitely referred back to what Nanoha had said earlier that day about discussing things together. That's why it's reproduced in the panel on that page.

last edited at Aug 13, 2019 12:15PM

How dare you make them cry, Igarashi.

apparently touching her hair is the only move Igarashi's got

I laughed way too much at that, thank you XD

Chidori couldn't trust her after she dismissed the concept of them being together because they were both women and didn't tell her about her boyfriend in the first place.

But, in truth, Igarashi was never the one to do the rejecting.

...so dismissing the concept of being together is not a rejection?
I've been doing it all wrong my whole life. I could have had so many girlfriends if I had not taken their no-homo-stance as rejection!
No, all jokes aside - If you don't mind, I strongly disagree:
Igarashi rejected her then.

last edited at Aug 13, 2019 4:52PM

Yeah, I guess if you're going by the strictest, most literal sense, Igarashi never rejected Chidori. But that ignores the reality of what actually happened.

That senpai it's really a bitch.

Ahhh shiet! Drama is coming guys~ we need it though not gonna lie xD but that was a bitch move to be honest.. she stirred the pot like crazy.. but i need to know the senpai’s reason as well shiet!

...I'm seriously not getting what Igarashi's angle is now. She seemed to start out vaguely nostalgic and possibly at least half-heartedly testing the ice for some kind of rapprochement, then apparently switched gears to "let's troll the cute kouhai(s) for le shitz und gigglez" about the second Nanoha walked in.

And that little 'joke' she tossed at Nano really makes me wonder if she isn't the second exception to the series tagline - and if so, when did she clue in?

How dare you make them cry, Igarashi.

Real bitch move. >:(

...I'm seriously not getting what Igarashi's angle is now. She seemed to start out vaguely nostalgic and possibly at least half-heartedly testing the ice for some kind of rapprochement, then apparently switched gears to "let's troll the cute kouhai(s) for le shitz und gigglez" about the second Nanoha walked in.

Igarashi's key statement is, "I made a mistake," which certain kinds of people often mistake for having delivered an apology, even though it's only preliminary to actually expressing, "And I'm sorry and am asking for your forgiveness."

After the Valentine's Day candy return, Igarashi might have surreptitiously observed Chidori and Nanoha interacting, and, having developed a villains' super-gaydar, put two and two together, which their closest friends have yet to do, even after a sleepover.

Or maybe it's just generalized asshole-ness.

last edited at Aug 14, 2019 10:25AM

Igarashi's key statement is, "I made a mistake," which certain kinds of people often mistake for having delivered an apology, even though it's only preliminary to actually expressing, "And I'm sorry and am asking for your forgiveness."

Anyone's guess where she was going with it since they got interrupted by meddling kidsNanoha and the prospective applicants, though from the context its clear she had something to discuss about the whole rejection business. Not sure how Chidori's shocked_pikachu_face.jpg there is supposed to be read...

After the Valentine's Day candy return, Igarashi might have surreptitiously observed Chidori and Nanoha interacting, and, having developed a villains' super-gaydar, put two and two together, which their closest friends have yet to do, even after a sleepover.

Or maybe it's just generalized asshole-ness.

Seems like an awful specific barb to throw as a parting shot if she didn't at least have a strong suspicion of their relationship is all. TBF to the blissfully unaware friends, though, Igarashi would at least have had a rough of idea what kinds of hints to look for if she was keeping an eye on Chidori before graduation; would still rather smack of supervillainous omniscience.