As for Sumin and Sungji being real world, I think by real world you mean “more common”. As in, most people don’t experience the first type of love in their lifetime out of simple lack of opportunity, and even when they do, I believe most shy away from it one way or another. As I have observed there is a tendency for folks to run away from goals or people they want too much, because there is high risk involved and therefore potential for deep pain; so the tendency is to always settle for the “fair enough”. It’s the minimization of pain vs maximization of pleasure strategy choice. Rarely in life we can get it both ways...

In fiction, the reason why the first type of love is more depicted and attracts all the attention is for the same reason we make movies and write books about people who took the path less traveled and went into adventures, went for that business idea or poured themselves into causes they believe in. We want to read or watch about the things we usually are too afraid to do.

Now let me stop philosophizing xD

last edited at May 23, 2019 12:16PM

^ Well, I was talking in the first case about the extreme version of the theory--the literal "soul mate."

In the original version (Plato, I believe), the idea was that the process of taking physical form at birth splits a soul in two, and a person goes through life unconsciously searching for their other, missing half. So there's one specific, and one only, perfect mate out there that we're all supposed to be trying to find.

The "real life" I was referring to is the idea that, while it's possible for two people to find each other who in a sense "complete" one another, or who fit together extremely well, there's nothing mystical about it, and there can be any number of people who potentially could fill that role for each other.

Of course, any one person may never encounter one of those people, and the chances of doing so are so small, relatively speaking, that it may well feel like there's only one perfect person out there.

You're right that stories lean hard on that "soul mate" theory, in part because it makes for higher-stakes narrative conflicts.

Ah, right; I think the idea of only one soul mate is just a myth (we would have to prove souls even exist first lol). But there is definitely intense love, the one gut-felt where you have that magnetic obsessive attraction; the love you feel for someone when you really want to be in a relationship and they happen to be lovely, cute and there for you; the love you feel for someone when you are very compatible and thus rarely fight; the love you feel for someone when they really understand you and vice-versa etc.

Those are all flavours of love so to speak, but I would say the one depicted the most in fiction (and that maybe inspired Plato to create the soul mate myth) is the first one. And yes maybe because it happens to be mutual very rarely, it is like a 0 or at most 1 time in your life thing.

And that’s not to be confused with lust, a crush etc. The other name for gut-level love is “limerence”, which is specifically obsessive romantic love. It leaves people the most vulnerable. But research does show that relationships that start with limerence tend to be more passionate long term etc, even if the limerence feelings decrease, so there’s likely something to it.

last edited at May 23, 2019 3:23PM

Even if relationships starts from underlying motive that doesn’t mean they can’t grow in something more. And even mostly good relationships can go wrong because of people or world around. As for Sumin and Seju, their relationships have what they needed and even if there were a lot of bad and unhealthy things in it, they were afraid of losing it. Like Seju said in latest chapters it was “habit”. Bad habit.
Although, when Sumin cheated, for Sungji in that moment appeared new girl, you know for “healing”. This webtoon nothing more but consistent, lol.

Actually for me, the biggest proof Sumin doesn’t love Sungji in the best way came at the very moment she told Seju, crying, that Sungji had left. The words used here are everything: she says Sungji was a good one, that she thought she could finally work out “with someone” this time etc. I’ve had friends telling me these exact words before. She sees Sungji as someone to place into the role of gf because she really wants one lol That’s the reason she picked Sungji, because she was ready to have a gf now and Sungji happened to be there so she was picked for the role.

I think after her breaking up with Seju, she has never truly loved any person yet. She just loves being in a relationship that can work out. She chose Sungji because she believed Sungji could give her that kind of relationship.

She was in love with the Red haired girl for real too. But the difference is, unlike Seju or Red, Sungji was willing to work things out properly with her, mature enough to give her time and space to reconsider their relationship. While Seju just went along with her little game, not leaving and not fighting, and Red neglecting and giving up on her. Sungji, on the other hand, thought Sumin would find happiness in Seju so she let her go, but 2 months later, at the wedding hall of her friend, she saw Sumin sitting next to her again with tears all over her face. It was enough for Sungji to know she made a wrong but right decision, that it was her that Sumin needs and loves, the empty feeling of not having Sungji stayed by Sumin's side has made her realize the one in her heart right now. Sumin loved Seju for sure, but as Seju said, even Seju herself knows too well now that even they got back back together, the one Sumin misses would be Sungji, not Baek Seju "in the past". She knows too well Sumin's love for current Seju was dying gradually in 10 years, only feelings of when they were in love lingered. That's why it was hard to let go, because of the memories they built together.

And I think we need to keep in mind this. Sumin chose to be with Sungji because it was Sungji that she loves. Not because she's a suitable partner for her. It was because of her feelings for Sungji that made her think their relationship will work out and try her best to maintain it. Not like we can't find Sungji's traits in Sumin's ex lovers. It's ok to say they don't match, but you shouldn't negate or degrade her love for Sungji, totally different.

One last thing. Move on.

last edited at May 24, 2019 3:50AM

Ah, right; I think the idea of only one soul mate is just a myth (we would have to prove souls even exist first lol). But there is definitely intense love, the one gut-felt where you have that magnetic obsessive attraction; the love you feel for someone when you really want to be in a relationship and they happen to be lovely, cute and there for you; the love you feel for someone when you are very compatible and thus rarely fight; the love you feel for someone when they really understand you and vice-versa etc.

Those are all flavours of love so to speak, but I would say the one depicted the most in fiction (and that maybe inspired Plato to create the soul mate myth) is the first one. And yes maybe because it happens to be mutual very rarely,

Exactly, you don’t know who you’re gonna end up with since there are millions of people out there that fit your “ideal,” so the one who makes it to you first and proves themselves is who you end up loving deeply.

last edited at May 24, 2019 4:52AM

It's been almost 2 years already, I think, since the last time I read the main story. As a result, I couldn't go into any detailed discussion anymore.

Not because she's a suitable partner for her. It was because of her feelings for Sungji that made her think their relationship will work out and try her best to maintain it.

Let me ask you a question. How could she still believe in her own feeling for someone considering the fact that she loved Seju and redhead for real and their relationships still ended up failing?

last edited at May 24, 2019 5:23AM

Ah, maybe I should have explained better: the part I relate to about her is not her revenge on Seju, but rather the self-destructive way in which she handled the cheating. Trying to go out with a lot of girls, partying a lot, and also her “traumatic” flashbacks whenever she was with some girl etc.

I just want to say that the self destructiveness wasn't how she handled the cheating, it's how Sumin handled being physically and mentally scarred by Sejus brother. (Whether you agree with the way she handled it or not) Don't forget that originally Sumin tried to move on after the cheating by living by herself, and then was kidnapped.

last edited at May 24, 2019 5:53AM

She was in love with the Red haired girl for real too. But the difference is, unlike Seju or Red, Sungji was willing to work things out properly with her, mature enough to give her time and space to reconsider their relationship. While Seju just went along with her little game, not leaving and not fighting, and Red neglecting and giving up on her. Sungji, on the other hand, thought Sumin would find happiness in Seju so she let her go, but 2 months later, at the wedding hall of her friend, she saw Sumin sitting next to her again with tears all over her face. It was enough for Sungji to know she made a wrong but right decision, that it was her that Sumin needs and loves, the empty feeling of not having Sungji stayed by Sumin's side has made her realize the one in her heart right now. Sumin loved Seju for sure, but as Seju said, even Seju herself knows too well now that even they got back back together, the one Sumin misses would be Sungji, not Baek Seju "in the past". She knows too well Sumin's love for current Seju was dying gradually in 10 years, only feelings of when they were in love lingered. That's why it was hard to let go, because of the memories they built together.

And I think we need to keep in mind this. Sumin chose to be with Sungji because it was Sungji that she loves. Not because she's a suitable partner for her. It was because of her feelings for Sungji that made her think their relationship will work out and try her best to maintain it. Not like we can't find Sungji's traits in Sumin's ex lovers. It's ok to say they don't match, but you shouldn't negate or degrade her love for Sungji, totally different.

I think you don’t understand the concept of a rebound. Have you ever had one or seen your friends have them after an extremely serious and intense relationship with someone else?

The entire story shows signs that Sungji starts out as rebound and Sumin ends with her out of a feeling of really wanting “to make it work out with someone this time”. The words are reiterated in chapter 108. Sungji knows it. Her words both at the end of the story and in ch 108 also reflect it. You keep talking about Sumin’s feelings but this is your projection and in the story it’s never clear, I am going by the dialogues and not how I imagine this or that character felt.

Note that none of it means that Sumin doesn’t love Sungji; all it means is that she doesn’t love Sungji (at least yet) due to uniquely being in love with her, but because she is in love with the idea of working it out with someone.

Also it’s entirely possible Sungji upgrades herself from rebound to actually being loved uniquely by Sumin, but that wasn’t shown so far. It will be shown, possibly, in the last side story.

One last thing. Move on.

Why don’t you move on from idealizing Sumin’s feelings instead? Kidding, I don’t want you to otherwise it’s not fun :P

As Blastaar said the story is all about ambivalence. If you have counterarguments to my points that rely on actual dialogue from the series rather than your imagination of how Sumin felt, I would be happy to know for discussion purposes.

I can give you a counterpoint to my own arguments actually: in the last ch of the main series Sumin does say that Sungji started out as someone she found hard to love but filled out her whole world eventually. So this points out to a direction of Sungji becoming loved outside of the context of Sumin wanting a relationship desperately. Then in ch 108 it kinda backtracks in my opinion, so we will see.

last edited at May 24, 2019 10:13AM

Ah, maybe I should have explained better: the part I relate to about her is not her revenge on Seju, but rather the self-destructive way in which she handled the cheating. Trying to go out with a lot of girls, partying a lot, and also her “traumatic” flashbacks whenever she was with some girl etc.

I just want to say that the self destructiveness wasn't how she handled the cheating, it's how Sumin handled being physically and mentally scarred by Sejus brother. (Whether you agree with the way she handled it or not) Don't forget that originally Sumin tried to move on after the cheating by living by herself, and then was kidnapped.

I don’t think these 2 things can be separated though? I do think the torture by the brother pushed her to “lose it” so to speak, but most of her flashbacks seem associated with either moments with Seju or the cheating, not the moment of being tortured.

Which is actually so unrealistic lol Surely being tortured is much more serious than being cheated on. And god knows why the bro wasn’t arrested.

Ah, right; I think the idea of only one soul mate is just a myth (we would have to prove souls even exist first lol). But there is definitely intense love, the one gut-felt where you have that magnetic obsessive attraction; the love you feel for someone when you really want to be in a relationship and they happen to be lovely, cute and there for you; the love you feel for someone when you are very compatible and thus rarely fight; the love you feel for someone when they really understand you and vice-versa etc.

Those are all flavours of love so to speak, but I would say the one depicted the most in fiction (and that maybe inspired Plato to create the soul mate myth) is the first one. And yes maybe because it happens to be mutual very rarely,

Exactly, you don’t know who you’re gonna end up with since there are millions of people out there that fit your “ideal,” so the one who makes it to you first and proves themselves is who you end up loving deeply.

But what if meeting that specific person out of the millions you're compatible with is what makes them special from the rest? Why meet them specifically, and not the other millions?
I don't believe the soul mate theory of two souls being half, but I also think that if something isn't meant to be it won't. Like how some people say meeting the right person in the wrong time.
Well, maybe that means this person wasn't the right after all.

Ah, right; I think the idea of only one soul mate is just a myth (we would have to prove souls even exist first lol). But there is definitely intense love, the one gut-felt where you have that magnetic obsessive attraction; the love you feel for someone when you really want to be in a relationship and they happen to be lovely, cute and there for you; the love you feel for someone when you are very compatible and thus rarely fight; the love you feel for someone when they really understand you and vice-versa etc.

Those are all flavours of love so to speak, but I would say the one depicted the most in fiction (and that maybe inspired Plato to create the soul mate myth) is the first one. And yes maybe because it happens to be mutual very rarely,

Exactly, you don’t know who you’re gonna end up with since there are millions of people out there that fit your “ideal,” so the one who makes it to you first and proves themselves is who you end up loving deeply.

Unrelated to WDTFS, but: quite the opposite, the guy-level love feeling is usually depicted as independent of the person fitting your ideals, sometimes even being the opposite of that, and happening even when you are already happy with someone else. They are even shown to be couples who argue a lot, but are despite all that irreversibly drawn to each other etc. Think stuff like The Notebook. Or even Romeo and Juliet for that matter; Romeo is supposedly in love with Rosaline first.

Ah, right; I think the idea of only one soul mate is just a myth (we would have to prove souls even exist first lol). But there is definitely intense love, the one gut-felt where you have that magnetic obsessive attraction; the love you feel for someone when you really want to be in a relationship and they happen to be lovely, cute and there for you; the love you feel for someone when you are very compatible and thus rarely fight; the love you feel for someone when they really understand you and vice-versa etc.

Those are all flavours of love so to speak, but I would say the one depicted the most in fiction (and that maybe inspired Plato to create the soul mate myth) is the first one. And yes maybe because it happens to be mutual very rarely,

Exactly, you don’t know who you’re gonna end up with since there are millions of people out there that fit your “ideal,” so the one who makes it to you first and proves themselves is who you end up loving deeply.

But what if meeting that specific person out of the millions you're compatible with is what makes them special from the rest? Why meet them specifically, and not the other millions?
I don't believe the soul mate theory of two souls being half, but I also think that if something isn't meant to be it won't. Like how some people say meeting the right person in the wrong time.
Well, maybe that means this person wasn't the right after all.

I am not saying what’s “special” or not, which is just a matter of each person interpreting it their own way. I just pointed out that there are different flavours of love (maybe they should have different names even, like in Greek), and that the one most depicted in fiction is a particular one.

Can't believe it took Sumin more than 10 years to able to love someone like Sungji, lol. The part of describing their love is so shallow that I'm always having this thought: Man, does this need to be 10 years to have a Sungji? LOL, if Sumin is this easy to fall in love, 1 year is already enough for her to find a new "the love of her life".

It's the case for Seju now.

Which is why I dont support this couple, SejuxDowon even though people are sreaming for them, lol.

To Sumin, at least she tried to find new love many times so even though it made no sense with the 10 years, its still understandable with the Sungji saga but Seju? LOL, after describing her loving Sumin for her whole life, they give her another love interest just for the sake of it.

I already said it, I like Seju's love for Sumin which is why I like Seju also but the author has totally ruined the characters and the story, now I only read for fun, lolllll.

I might be discussing here and there but I will only pick up flaws of all three characters, lol.

With Sumin, honestly, her development is just about going downfall. From a cool girl to person who I'm not so sure why she is the protagonist and why does she deserve to be healed in the first place?

She chased healing, so eventually she found one. You can't be healed just because you deserve it.

Lol, which is why the story is plainly stupid and just for the sake of sex and cheesy nonsense love, lol. People just cant say this is a great story when the protagonist hurt a bunch of people just to find her new love for 10 years, lol, then make another bunch of mistakes to earn the love without letting readers see a proper redeemtion but well, wtv.

last edited at May 26, 2019 1:08PM

matsuri_wins

It’s just too bad Sungji in the story became a total Mary Sue though, so I still like Seju and Sumin much better lol

Oh, Sungji is totally an angel which is a big disappointment but she keeps herself that way till the end, even the action of leaving Sumin at the end was purely because of her nature so I cant hate her but cant like her also, lol.
Sumin is not though = ))))). One moment she acted like a person I want the author does sth good to her then right next moment I want to punch her right on the face, lol. Well, Sumin is the 1st main protagonist, the center of the three but I'm really disappointed in how she turned to be in the end, lol.

I only like Seju and feel so-so about the other two, lolllll, dont hate suminxsungji, also dont like them either. Seju as the antagonist is such a memorable character that it will be hard to find another conflicting antagonist like that, lol. She is not good enough to be a protagonist but as an antagonist, she is pretty memorable, lol.

last edited at May 26, 2019 1:22PM

^Well that’s one point of view. Love can be to the end of the life, but it doesn’t mean there can be only one. New bonds do not work like replacements of others and they can be as deep. Like parallel or even intersecting lines in one heart. That’s why thou Sumin admits in one point that she still loves Seju, in the same time she loves and choses Sungji, because their bond bring completion for them. And Seju and Sumin bond is rotten, they needed to get out of it and they did. Because of that I don’t see why Seju can’t be protagonist, she complex character who can find better lifestyle and person to be with.

Yeah, I don't like this type of "love one and forever from kindergarten", lol. Life can be more complex than that and I wanna see it in fiction.

^Well that’s one point of view. Love can be to the end of the life, but it doesn’t mean there can be only one. New bonds do not work like replacements of others and they can be as deep. Like parallel or even intersecting lines in one heart. That’s why thou Sumin admits in one point that she still loves Seju, in the same time she loves and choses Sungji, because their bond bring completion for them. And Seju and Sumin bond is rotten, they needed to get out of it and they did. Because of that I don’t see why Seju can’t be protagonist, she complex character who can find better lifestyle and person to be with.

Yeah, I don't like this type of "love one and forever from kindergarten", lol. Life can be more complex than that and I wanna see it in fiction.

Yeah exactly a lot of people seem to think that the first person you fell in love with will be the person you end up with but that nearly never happens in real life.

^ You can also be in love with multiple people.

Yeah, I don't like this type of "love one and forever from kindergarten", lol. Life can be more complex than that and I wanna see it in fiction.

Going to toss in here that even in fiction it's more complex. The romance genre is full to overflowing with stories about relationships that didn't work out, the previous partner died, etc.and the protagonist goes on to find a new love who's just as good if not better than the old one.

I think again the issue is calling multiple types of feelings all the same thing, “love”. The reality is that Seju’s feeling for Sumin was not the same feeling as Sumin’s for Seju; which is not she same as Sungji’s for Sumin, and definitely not the same as Sumin’s for Sungji (which in my view is the weakest of all if you consider only the dimension of “intensity” since it was much more about the desire to be in a certain type of relationship than about Sungji herself).

The issue with this story is that despite trying to show the many types of love and how they presumably are all great, it in my opinion (and apparently to a significant portion of readers) fails to hit the feels with anything but the non-fit-level, “destined”, “Romeo&Juliet” one.

And it didn’t need to be this way at all.

last edited at May 27, 2019 8:19AM

^Well that’s one point of view. Love can be to the end of the life, but it doesn’t mean there can be only one. New bonds do not work like replacements of others and they can be as deep. Like parallel or even intersecting lines in one heart. That’s why thou Sumin admits in one point that she still loves Seju, in the same time she loves and choses Sungji, because their bond bring completion for them. And Seju and Sumin bond is rotten, they needed to get out of it and they did. Because of that I don’t see why Seju can’t be protagonist, she complex character who can find better lifestyle and person to be with.

Yeah, I don't like this type of "love one and forever from kindergarten", lol. Life can be more complex than that and I wanna see it in fiction.

Yeah exactly a lot of people seem to think that the first person you fell in love with will be the person you end up with but that nearly never happens in real life.

I really don't like that first love from school trope either. But that's not the reason between Seju and Sumin.
Their story would be the same whether they met later or from school. Like, if Sumin fell in love with Sungji in highschool (if they were around same age) then dated Seju and then went back to Sungji with a very similar plotline like now.

What made them is not the fact that they were each other's first or they met in school

last edited at May 27, 2019 9:30AM

I think again the issue is calling multiple types of feelings all the same thing, “love”. The reality is that Seju’s feeling for Sumin was not the same feeling as Sumin’s for Seju; which is not she same as Sungji’s for Sumin, and definitely not the same as Sumin’s for Sungji

Imo, Seju’s feeling for Sumin isn't love either. I got the idea from reading the chapter where Nami made her cry.

Yeah exactly a lot of people seem to think that the first person you fell in love with will be the person you end up with but that nearly never happens in real life.

Are those people Sungji or something? They sound as stupid as Sungji. Sorry Sungji fans.

Going to toss in here that even in fiction it's more complex. The romance genre is full to overflowing with stories about relationships that didn't work out, the previous partner died, etc.and the protagonist goes on to find a new love who's just as good if not better than the old one.

That’s also true. I just somewhat tired of this specific trope in korean dramas. Too much of that, lol.

And I don’t think there was intention for the main story to describe “one and forever special love”. For me it was story about trying to finally letting go of unhealthy and meaningless relationships despite lingering feelings and all love in the past. It was hard for all participants, there were mistakes and missteps, bad and good intentions, and I want to see them doing better. Sumin is there for sure and now Seju maybe can be too. She has complicated circumstances and now has a chance to end her “habit”, her lifestyle, like Nami was trying to convince her all the time. Maybe it’s not the best writing about new love interest appearing like that, but it’s not inconsistent.

last edited at May 27, 2019 11:28AM

I think again the issue is calling multiple types of feelings all the same thing, “love”. The reality is that Seju’s feeling for Sumin was not the same feeling as Sumin’s for Seju; which is not she same as Sungji’s for Sumin, and definitely not the same as Sumin’s for Sungji

Imo, Seju’s feeling for Sumin isn't love either. I got the idea from reading the chapter where Nami made her cry.

Well let’s not get into a discussion of “what is love?” here. Specially because what people usually mean when they say something is not “love”, is that they are trying to disqualify whatever they think is not love, as “lesser”. Which is total bullshit of course. If I am so obsessed about a girl that I would kill or die for her for example, and pursue her relentlessly (not forcing contact but never getting tired of trying to please her, say ) is that love? Of course it is, in so far as I have overwhelming desire to be with her, to protect her etc. You could say that’s stronger love than what someone else feels, if they would give up on that girl at the smallest sign of rejection or “danger” because they are “selfless”.But what if intense love also makes the person an overbearing, obsessed lover? And what if being a respectful selfless lover makes the person weak in defending their love in the face of obstacles? It’s not black and white.

The type of lover one would want depends on the context one is in, and one’s own personality. I prefer Seju types through and through, but that’s me.

Yeah exactly a lot of people seem to think that the first person you fell in love with will be the person you end up with but that nearly never happens in real life.

Are those people Sungji or something? They sound as stupid as Sungji. Sorry Sungji fans.

last edited at May 27, 2019 11:58AM