Forum › Giniro no Genders discussion

Hana3
joined Mar 22, 2018

Oh no, not more hooligans!! Everyone's a victim!

Don't%20forget%20the%20best%20girl
joined Jul 22, 2018

Oh oh, seems interesting. Want to see the next chapter

Hino-san
joined Sep 4, 2014

I know I defended this manga as "trash" before in this thread, but I have to downgrade it to "worse than trash" now. The past few chapters, plus the relationship chart, are just terrible. It's like every trope is trotted out in the worst way and everyone is terrible - but we're "inclusive" and they're all "friends"??? If I had friends that terrible, they wouldn't be my friends anymore.

If it's trying to show the obsessive aspect of love, or be disturbing, it needs to back off on the "friends" BS as though normal people blackmail their friends. If it's trying to be a "friends" manga, then these people need to be less trash. If it's trying to be a manga about a group of sexual minorities, it should probably not constantly treat them like the worst stereotypes of how fucked up people can be.

If it's going to be trash, it still has to aspire to a certain level. NTR is trash, but it's compelling trash.

I think this guy just wants to write rape porn.

then he need sto get in with the rape porn cuz im running out of patients

45b4e36d555ca184502130f8249354c2--flcl-furi-kuri2
joined Jul 19, 2018

I think a huge problem here is you seem to be blaming trans people for objecting to a weaponized characterization of mental illness, rather than the people who are literally, and intentionally, misusing and devaluing the term.

To use your analogy with being called gay, using it (and faggot and similar terms) as an insult, generic or not, is indeed marginalizaing toward gay people. But if someone who isn't gay objects to being called that, they're not the ones at fault. It's the ones using gay as a synonym for something bad. Similarly, trans people being called mentally ill by people who are using the term to devalue them and invalidate their experiences are not at fault when they object.

Put the blame on the people who are actively placing stigma on mental illness by using it as a synonym for "what you feel isn't real and you're not valid", where it belongs.

It looks like I've made a bit of a mess trying to explain my point.

You certainly do have a point, my analogy actually wasn't a great fit for this situation. Unlike in my example of an asshole calling random people or things they don't like gay when they aren't, in this case it is the world's psychiatric experts, the people who literally define what is and is not mental illness, classifying gender dysphoria as a mental illness which in doing so has literally made it so.

My analogy was mostly trying to illustrate that there is a harmful bias in thinking that being gay or mentally ill is bad thing that people should be ashamed of. People shouldn't think that calling somebody gay or mentally ill is an insult beyond the fact that its not nice to miscategorize somebody as something that they are not.

It's not so much that I think the individual people who get diagnosed as mentally ill and are upset about it are really to blame so much as society's attitude overall. Which is the same for my analogy about people using gay as some sort of general negative insult.

The difference being that with the gay analogy the person they are calling gay actually isn't and the guy doing it is just some asshole where as in the other case we have the world's definitive treatise on mental illness defining somebody as mentally ill and they are becoming offended by it because they view mentally ill people in a negative light and do not wish to think of themselves that way.

Sadly, what I had intended to just be a quick one off comment on how it's not good to stigmatize mental illness has turned into quite the tangential derail. Hopefully, I have cleared up what I was trying to say this time.

20220118_232511_50
joined Jun 3, 2015

It looks like I've made a bit of a mess trying to explain my point.

You certainly do have a point, my analogy actually wasn't a great fit for this situation. Unlike in my example of an asshole calling random people or things they don't like gay when they aren't, in this case it is the world's psychiatric experts, the people who literally define what is and is not mental illness, classifying gender dysphoria as a mental illness which in doing so has literally made it so.

My analogy was mostly trying to illustrate that there is a harmful bias in thinking that being gay or mentally ill is bad thing that people should be ashamed of. People shouldn't think that calling somebody gay or mentally ill is an insult beyond the fact that its not nice to miscategorize somebody as something that they are not.

It's not so much that I think the individual people who get diagnosed as mentally ill and are upset about it are really to blame so much as society's attitude overall. Which is the same for my analogy about people using gay as some sort of general negative insult.

The difference being that with the gay analogy the person they are calling gay actually isn't and the guy doing it is just some asshole where as in the other case we have the world's definitive treatise on mental illness defining somebody as mentally ill and they are becoming offended by it because they view mentally ill people in a negative light and do not wish to think of themselves that way.

Sadly, what I had intended to just be a quick one off comment on how it's not good to stigmatize mental illness has turned into quite the tangential derail. Hopefully, I have cleared up what I was trying to say this time.

It's not like people involved with transgenders were super happy with the DSMV. It's still on the conservative side and conflates being transgender with experiencing dysphoria/impairment which isn't always the case(the upcoming ICD-11 won't include that requirement and calls it gender incongruence). Also the whole point of replacing "identity disorder" with "dysphoria" was to avoid labeling it a disorder, because being transgender isn't a disorder.

The only disorder-like thing about being transgender is the optional distress/anxiety/impairment caused by not being able to match your gender identity. And that acts more like a symptom or a side effect than a disorder: Transitioning so that your body/presentation matches your gender identity kind of just kind of makes it disappear which is unusual for an actual mental disorder. It's superficially similar to body dysmorphic disorder, but the latter doesn't just go away when you change your appearance.

If you force gay people into straight relationships they'll probably experience some real despair too, does that make being a gay a mental illness? Hell, would a straight man struggling inside a same sex relationship qualify as mentally ill?

EDIT: I do get your point, but it's wrong.

last edited at Apr 6, 2019 9:42PM

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

Yay, a whole chapter dedicated to my favorite character, Asa-chan! I couldn't be happier! ♡ ♡ ♡

So my speculation was right: she really has a Marimite background. A realistic Marimite background -- not an idyllic "garden of yuri" arcadia where girl-girl bonding is actively encouraged, but an oppressive fundie hellhole where teachings are hardcore homophobic and anti-sex. And it seems her family life isn't much better. But we know that, deep inside, she's a lesbian... oh, the poor girl, coming to terms with her secret feelings and urges ain't gonna be easy...

(Btw, in the transition from page 17 to page 18, it looks like she teleported from Tokyo to Montevideo. It really made me burst out laughing. Just sayin'...)

joined Mar 28, 2019

I just started reading this. The transgender girl is so cute... And I feel her pain. Coming out as a cisgirl lesbian here in America was enough drama for me, but I can’t imagine the amount of bullying that LGBTQI Asians get in their schools (in Japan and Korea, depending on the province, they can be even less tolerant of homosexuals and transgenders culturally bc of religious beliefs being prevalent).

last edited at Apr 7, 2019 9:12AM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

BlairYi posted:

I just started reading this. The transgender girl is so cute... And I feel her pain. Coming out as a cisgirl lesbian here in America was enough drama for me, but I can’t imagine the amount of bullying that LGBTQI Asians get in their schools (in Japan and Korea, depending on the province, they can be even less tolerant of homosexuals and transgenders culturally bc of religious beliefs being prevalent).

What transgirl? Gin? At this point, he's just a cross-dresser, not a transgirl. He never expressed anything about being a girl inside. He just wants to be cute and noticed.

I'm more interested in Sumon's story, since he seems to be the trans character. Transguy characters are sparsely few in manga. But until now, he seems to be getting the short end of the stick.

I hope he doesn't end up a headcase too.

joined Mar 28, 2019

I know I defended this manga as "trash" before in this thread, but I have to downgrade it to "worse than trash" now. The past few chapters, plus the relationship chart, are just terrible. It's like every trope is trotted out in the worst way and everyone is terrible - but we're "inclusive" and they're all "friends"??? If I had friends that terrible, they wouldn't be my friends anymore.

If it's trying to show the obsessive aspect of love, or be disturbing, it needs to back off on the "friends" BS as though normal people blackmail their friends. If it's trying to be a "friends" manga, then these people need to be less trash. If it's trying to be a manga about a group of sexual minorities, it should probably not constantly treat them like the worst stereotypes of how fucked up people can be.

If it's going to be trash, it still has to aspire to a certain level. NTR is trash, but it's compelling trash.

I think this guy just wants to write rape porn.

Yup. Seiji especially was a sneaky creepo. The girl is effed up for blackmailing the MC to get closer to that girl too.

And not surprised about the fetishization, this was drawn by a dude...

But despite all this, I am curious about how things will turn out lol.

But I have to say that I feel bad for the MC. He’s (or she, if he becomes trans) this person trying to figure out his (her) identity, but “friends” around him (her) use him (her) for their selfishness.

last edited at Apr 7, 2019 10:25AM

joined Mar 12, 2019

Seiji is a creepy motherfucker...dear mangaka, what the actual fuck?...

But holy shit, you did do a great job depicting his lust with that moth/bug imagery. There was great tension depicted with the artwork.

DivineAlexandra
Ihstarresi
joined Jun 22, 2018

I'm more interested in Sumon's story, since he seems to be the trans character. Transguy characters are sparsely few in manga. But until now, he seems to be getting the short end of the stick.

I hope he doesn't end up a headcase too.

At this point, him being in the background is probably a good thing.

Madeleinedupris
joined Apr 8, 2019

in Japan and Korea, depending on the province, they can be even less tolerant of homosexuals and transgenders culturally bc of religious beliefs being prevalent

While I can't say that Japanese society wasn't heteronormative before, "homosexual acts" were only criminalized during Westernization, which had long lasting effects. Japanese religions are no more homophobic than e.g. the Christian churches. In general, very often throughout history the enforcement of heterosexuality was a means for the State to exercise control over the population (not unlike religion), so only blaming religion leaves the real culprits out of the picture.

I only brought this up, because there's a tendency in Western discussions to view Japanese society as whole as "backwards", which on one hand erases the local social justice movements of Japan, and also may trick us into thinking as if "The West" is oh so accepting and tolerant, or as if it's always been accepting and tolerant.

I think they are talking about Christianity and Catholicism. I am of South Korean descent and there’s definitely a HUGE Christian population over there. Literally every block or two, there is a church or place of worship/religious volunteering services. All of my family members are either Christian or Catholic.

last edited at Apr 9, 2019 11:32AM

joined Mar 28, 2019

in Japan and Korea, depending on the province, they can be even less tolerant of homosexuals and transgenders culturally bc of religious beliefs being prevalent

While I can't say that Japanese society wasn't heteronormative before, "homosexual acts" were only criminalized during Westernization, which had long lasting effects. Japanese religions are no more homophobic than e.g. the Christian churches. In general, very often throughout history the enforcement of heterosexuality was a means for the State to exercise control over the population (not unlike religion), so only blaming religion leaves the real culprits out of the picture.

I only brought this up, because there's a tendency in Western discussions to view Japanese society as whole as "backwards", which on one hand erases the local social justice movements of Japan, and also may trick us into thinking as if "The West" is oh so accepting and tolerant, or as if it's always been accepting and tolerant.

Yes like the person below you said I was talking about Western religions. In South Korean history male kings freely engaged in same sex relationships well before Westernization kicked in. There is indeed a good amount of Christians in South Korea. Even in America, you see Korean missionary churches everywhere in any state pretty much. But I don’t know about Catholicism there though. The other person might be able to respond to that. Just christians who think same sex relationships are wrong bc of procreation. In Japan it’s also a cultural thing in which they want you to get married and have kids, etc.

last edited at Apr 10, 2019 2:53PM

1385408507407
joined May 4, 2013

I miss more of a focus on everyone's favorite character, sir Nipple-licker.

last edited at Apr 13, 2019 5:46AM

1441805673401
joined Sep 25, 2015

Just started reading this because I'm into traps.
I love yuri but the yuri tag in chapter 7 is very misleading.
You can't call someone with a cock a girl.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Just started reading this because I'm into traps.
I love yuri but the yuri tag in chapter 7 is very misleading.
You can't call someone with a cock a girl.

You get a one-day ban for this.

F6c7d5d1-1d08-49c3-974d-d6169caf13f6
joined May 8, 2017

Deus posted:

I miss more of a focus on everyone's favorite character, sir Nipple-licker.

LOL sir Nipple-licker XD
this is my fan-fiction, alternate-universe lore:
he is an infamous knight who has annihilated many foes by licking their nipples to death
and his banner is a pink tongue on a field of yellow
and his family animal is a giant moth

last edited at Apr 15, 2019 3:50PM

1441805673401
joined Sep 25, 2015

Just started reading this because I'm into traps.
I love yuri but the yuri tag in chapter 7 is very misleading.
You can't call someone with a cock a girl.

You get a one-day ban for this.

Do you ban people for no reason or are you just power tripping?

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Just started reading this because I'm into traps.
I love yuri but the yuri tag in chapter 7 is very misleading.
You can't call someone with a cock a girl.

You get a one-day ban for this.

Do you ban people for no reason or are you just power tripping?

I ban people for transphobic comments like the one you made.

GendoIkari Uploader
Tsuglenda
joined Aug 10, 2011

If only there were some way to figure out why this might have happened by reading some sort of stickied post about what the rules of the forum are, perhaps one with 7 pages of clarifications clearly putting your transphobic trash in the crosshairs. But alas.

Madeleinedupris
joined Apr 8, 2019

Just started reading this because I'm into traps.
I love yuri but the yuri tag in chapter 7 is very misleading.
You can't call someone with a cock a girl.

That’s harsh, there are people who are called “transgender” for a reason...not everyone can afford sex organ change operations, either. But if a person who was born male wants to be a woman or feels more comfortable being one, the simple thought of it, thinking as a woman, or dressing up as one counts as transgendered too. Gin is very much a woman as we see her behave and takes care of her appearance.

She’s not just a “trap,” she legitimately wants to become a woman and is trying to figure out her sexual identity.

last edited at Apr 17, 2019 9:30AM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Madeleinedupris posted:

Gin is very much a woman as we see her behave and takes care of her appearance.

Nope and nope. Gin never stated he felt like he's actually a woman. Taking care of your appearance is not something that defines a woman. And he does not "behave like a woman" when he's not in "representation". Like here. Actually, he dresses up and "takes care of his appearance" only when cross-dressing, like an actor.

She’s not just a “trap,” she legitimately wants to become a woman and is trying to figure out her sexual identity.

Nope. Or we didn't read the same manga.

Gin just wants to look cute, to have likes on instagram. He craves attention, but as a guy, he's shy and thinks he's too short. It's plainly written in chapter 1. It's very much like net okamas, guys who adopt female personas on the net in order to attract attention and praises.

Like not every drag queen is gay, not every cross-dresser is a trans. At this point of the manga, Gin is no transgirl.

Madeleinedupris
joined Apr 8, 2019

Madeleinedupris posted:

Gin is very much a woman as we see her behave and takes care of her appearance.

Nope and nope. Gin never stated he felt like he's actually a woman. Taking care of your appearance is not something that defines a woman. And he does not "behave like a woman" when he's not in "representation". Like here. Actually, he dresses up and "takes care of his appearance" only when cross-dressing, like an actor.

She’s not just a “trap,” she legitimately wants to become a woman and is trying to figure out her sexual identity.

Nope. Or we didn't read the same manga.

Gin just wants to look cute, to have likes on instagram. He craves attention, but as a guy, he's shy and thinks he's too short. It's plainly written in chapter 1. It's very much like net okamas, guys who adopt female personas on the net in order to attract attention and praises.

Like not every drag queen is gay, not every cross-dresser is a trans. At this point of the manga, Gin is no transgirl.

The blackmailing chick teaches him about transgenders and he thinks about it, and wonders if he’s one too. So we shouldn’t rule that out.

120x120px-ls-38203a65_avatar65018_8
joined Oct 27, 2011

Madeleinedupris posted:

Gin is very much a woman as we see her behave and takes care of her appearance.

Nope and nope. Gin never stated he felt like he's actually a woman. Taking care of your appearance is not something that defines a woman. And he does not "behave like a woman" when he's not in "representation". Like here. Actually, he dresses up and "takes care of his appearance" only when cross-dressing, like an actor.

She’s not just a “trap,” she legitimately wants to become a woman and is trying to figure out her sexual identity.

Nope. Or we didn't read the same manga.

Gin just wants to look cute, to have likes on instagram. He craves attention, but as a guy, he's shy and thinks he's too short. It's plainly written in chapter 1. It's very much like net okamas, guys who adopt female personas on the net in order to attract attention and praises.

Like not every drag queen is gay, not every cross-dresser is a trans. At this point of the manga, Gin is no transgirl.

The blackmailing chick teaches him about transgenders and he thinks about it, and wonders if he’s one too. So we shouldn’t rule that out.

The blackmailing chick didn't really teach him about transgenders, she told him more about gender boudaries and social steteotype about genders.
Also i think Gin craves affection more than attention: he want to be surrounded by true friends, to be praised by others so at the end he can be confident with himself. The blackmailing chick did confirm his "talent for making himself look cute". Gin is indeed a very timid one who always depreciated himself, so his inner always need ppl regarding him as an equal one (but not as a superior one so he'd be isolated) .
The problem of Gin now is increasing with him attached to an 'alpha male' (in his eyes). Because at the same time Gin can show off with a relationship with this alpha male, or Gin can be gay for real, Gin search answer in gender boudaries and stereotypes. From the beginning til now, Gin never really ask himself if he want to be a woman.

last edited at Dec 3, 2019 2:32AM

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