This is so predictable, it's painful.

What's with this author and the color yellow? I've seen several stories by Kobayashi Kina where the pages are normal black-and-white pages except that seemingly random spots in seemingly random panels are colored yellow...

I find it weird, too.

Wait this is the same author from Nanashi no Asterism, yeah I think I'm dropping this one if it doesn't improve soon, not gonna go through the same clusterfuck again.

Rotflmao.
That's how most people feel about NnA all right. Remember the "classification of love triangles" meme? I don't need to remind you which one of the six basic triangles NnA is, do I?

last edited at Dec 6, 2018 3:17PM

Love is love

AND THEY WERE ROOMATES!!

I had a stroke trying to understand the title.
Otherwise, this is interesting

sigh another "I'm just a cross-dressing guy, totally not trans" story. I've never really heard of a man staying in drag in their public life just because its a fun hobby they enjoy. It's just not something that really happens. Sure there are people who like to do the whole drag queen and drag king thing as a hobby, but the only time someone's gonna go through the effort to present like that throughout their daily life is if they're trans. I don't get why writers (of already gay material) need to bend backwards to portray this trope instead of just writing the story as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character.

Yeah, like... I'm still into yaoi with crossdressing, because characters that fuck with gender like that are great, but this whole trope of "I dress like a girl at all times, I take pride in how good I look as a girl, and I get really fulfilled and happy when people see me as a girl, but I'm still totes a guy in the end" really just feels like trans het romance for cowards, sometimes. Like, I'm sure you can find real life guys who would be like that, it just feels a bit... stale, I guess? It's kind of frustrating that these stories always seem to come with the subtext of "it's all funny and cute if it's just crossdressing, but if they actually sincerely think of themselves as a girl, then it's not fun anymore".

last edited at Dec 6, 2018 7:15PM

While this site sure is more yuri focused, please keep non yuri work on here. Really Dynasty Reader has my favorite online manga reader UI by far I just love reading anything on here.

Also this is real funny I’m excited about it.

it really is a super nice reader and that sort of doesn't get said enough

This would only work for me if Ren was secretly in love with Tougo for all these years as well. Otherwise the jokes get really old...
Plus: It isn't gay if one or both parties are dressed like a girl!

I​ like​ both​ yuri​ and​ yaoi.​ When​ a​ girl​ pair​s​ with​ a​ girl, it​ I​s​ better​ to​ pair​ guys​ together.​ Win-win​ situation

I usually don't read yaoi, but this is cute. =3=

Me either (in my defense, I'm a straight guy lol), but this looks like a good read.

I never found funny the "you look and act like a perfect girl I'd totally date, but you're a guy so you're out of question" joke, doubly so when person in question is a actual trans woman, but it was played for laughs so many times, at this point it is just such boring cliche, I wish it died already.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 11:29AM

I never found funny the "you look and act like a perfect girl I'd totally date, but you're a guy so you're out of question" joke, doubly so when person in question is a actual trans woman, but it was played for laughs so many times, at this point it is just such boring cliche, I wish it died already.

I'm in agreement. The heteronormativity that inhibits this archetypal conflict is extremely stale.

"But I can't be with a ///guy///!!!!1"
Like yeah you could mate if you weren't such a fucking coward

On a side note it's pretty exhausting that these stories so rarely have any genuine concept of the trans experience. And even if we validate the cliche of characters rejecting the idea of romance with cisgendered crossdressers like their tendencies are just a deviant hobby, translations could stand to stop using "drag" as though it has the same connotation.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 2:53PM

Being trap is not being trans or wanting to be trans. This is just an another manga troupe.It might be boring but I don't think they make this to offense trans people.

oguzhan96 posted:

Being trap is not being trans or wanting to be trans. This is just an another manga troupe.It might be boring but I don't think they make this to offense trans people.

I totally agree. It is pretty homophobic though. Also not in this case, but they do sometime use it even if character is specifically trans though. And well, I just never found it funny regardless.

last edited at Dec 7, 2018 7:07PM

sigh another "I'm just a cross-dressing guy, totally not trans" story. I've never really heard of a man staying in drag in their public life just because its a fun hobby they enjoy. It's just not something that really happens. Sure there are people who like to do the whole drag queen and drag king thing as a hobby, but the only time someone's gonna go through the effort to present like that throughout their daily life is if they're trans. I don't get why writers (of already gay material) need to bend backwards to portray this trope instead of just writing the story as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character.

Well, I've actually seen people who fit the "stays in drag in daily life but actually indentifies as male" thing. But I agree with you, the fact that this is kinda of an estabilished trope while the trans experience keeps being pretty much ignored feels really, really wrong to say the least

I love yuri and hate yaoi but if one of the guys or both if them are cute traps then I'm okay with it. I though Prunus Girl was nice.

sigh another "I'm just a cross-dressing guy, totally not trans" story. I've never really heard of a man staying in drag in their public life just because its a fun hobby they enjoy. It's just not something that really happens. Sure there are people who like to do the whole drag queen and drag king thing as a hobby, but the only time someone's gonna go through the effort to present like that throughout their daily life is if they're trans. I don't get why writers (of already gay material) need to bend backwards to portray this trope instead of just writing the story as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character.

Can you shut the fuck up about your bullshit agenda? People are just here to read a cute and funny trap story.

this feels like a mariaholic BL doujin or something

I get a mariaholic vibe a bit. Like if they took main girl from mariaholic and made her a boy for some reason

Pod7 I had totally not read your comment when I posted mine. That said I agree 100%

last edited at Dec 8, 2018 1:28PM

sigh another "I'm just a cross-dressing guy, totally not trans" story. I've never really heard of a man staying in drag in their public life just because its a fun hobby they enjoy. It's just not something that really happens. Sure there are people who like to do the whole drag queen and drag king thing as a hobby, but the only time someone's gonna go through the effort to present like that throughout their daily life is if they're trans. I don't get why writers (of already gay material) need to bend backwards to portray this trope instead of just writing the story as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character.

Can you shut the fuck up about your bullshit agenda? People are just here to read a cute and funny trap story.

No one is trying to take away your cute trap story, they where simply using free speech to express their opinion on the story. I know you right wing types have a hard time understanding this but discussing issues with something is not the same thing as wanting to destroy it.

Yes, marginalizing an entire group of people, like say crossdressers, and saying that stories about them should not exist so that the authors of those stories instead write about a group of people you'd like to see glorified is a very 'left wing' thing to do. Not that crossdressing homosexuals make up an entire culture whose message you're asking be appropriated to fit some other narrative. It's not like saying "as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character" is some sort of attempt to delegitimize and erase a real group of marginalized people simply because from your cultural perspective you don't have contact with such people and thus don't understand the appeal of stories from that point of view.

Almost like drawing battle lines demanding depiction is easier than aiming for representation of all cultural viewpoints and allows it to be a narrative of us versus them instead of taking what exists and having a more enriched understanding of it through the lens of the culture it's written in. As we all know if you're in favor of casting persons of color in movies you can't also be guilty of whitewashing or even racism towards other groups, since being on the right side for inclusion and diversity is about waving the flag of one or two groups and not about wanting the full range of cultures to be able to tell their own stories from their own view points.

The fact that someone so willing to trample on a work written from another perspective simply to win the "I'm the most underrepresented" prize would call someone else a "right wing type" shows a complete lack of human empathy. You certainly may "not want to destroy" this (although given the above quote "not something that really happens" that seems a bit disingenuous) , but that doesn't mean you have some high ground to demand it be changed to fit your experiences instead of the experiences of crossdressing homosexuals, and it certainly puts you on the level of everyone who was upset that the cast of the new Lion King was black instead of the original cast.

last edited at Dec 8, 2018 6:43PM

Yes, marginalizing an entire group of people, like say crossdressers, and saying that stories about them should not exist

...There is so much manga about crossdressing gay dudes. So much. Not all of it is good, or even respectful, but there's unquestionably an abundance of it. I can think of maybe a handful of manga that even have trans characters in them, let alone being a major part of the story. I know you clearly spent a long time on your post, but it really comes off as so much empty bluster when you're acting like people wishing for something other than the thousandth "I swear I'm not gay but he looks really good in a skirt" story is secretly an attempt trying to erase the concept of crossdressing.

Yes, marginalizing an entire group of people, like say crossdressers, and saying that stories about them should not exist

...There is so much manga about crossdressing gay dudes. So much. Not all of it is good, or even respectful, but there's unquestionably an abundance of it. I can think of maybe a handful of manga that even have trans characters in them, let alone being a major part of the story. I know you clearly spent a long time on your post, but it really comes off as so much empty bluster when you're acting like people wishing for something other than the thousandth "I swear I'm not gay but he looks really good in a skirt" story is secretly an attempt trying to erase the concept of crossdressing.

I don't think you read my post or the one it was quoting if that's what you got out of it. Certainly if "I've never really heard of a man staying in drag in their public life just because its a fun hobby they enjoy." and "as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character." aren't openly an attempt to erase the legitimacy of crossdressing then jim crow laws must have been about diner logistics. Certainly if what you got from my post was that I don't want more stories about trans characters than you may be way too entrenched in this black or white dichotomy of representation as a game of inclusion where representing one takes away from representing another, and saying "wishing for something other than the thousandth [...]" doesn't do much to detract from that view.
Diversity is a process of subjecting yourself to new ideas and viewpoints and allowing yourself to understand the cultural narrative of other people through their works. It isn't taking away some spot in the universe where a work about someone who is transgender would go by having another "'I swear I'm not gay but he looks really good in a skirt' story" and it is absolutely bigoted to say such a story doesn't have the right to be told because it doesn't reflect your experiences as the original quoted post implies. It's not a game, you don't get more points for having black friends or recasting Ghost Busters to star all women that you can trade in for a "get out of being called a racist free" card, it is about subjecting the works you read to both emic and etic scrutiny from both the perspective of your own and the one they were written from. We don't grow as a culture by bitching about so many movies depicting straight white men, they get better by going out of your way to find media that depicts other more interesting stories, and both can very easily coexist.
That doesn't mean you have to like this, for being predictable or for not being relatable to you, but saying it shouldn't exist and certainly saying "as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character." is beyond backwards to the very concept of inclusivity and representation. Not that the implication in the same post [(of already gay material)] isn't similarly insensitive first in that having it feature a trans woman would certainly not make it gay, and second in the idea that if the author is a homosexual neither would he have the experience of someone who is interested in women nor should it be his duty to depict a romance with a woman.
Oh, and anyone who uses the term "free speech" to defend themselves against criticism when attacking others like that belongs on gab.ai, "freedom" you see is merely privilege extended unless it is applied reciprocally.

last edited at Dec 8, 2018 7:35PM

I don't think you read my post or the one it was quoting if that's what you got out of it. Certainly if "I've never really heard of a man staying in drag in their public life just because its a fun hobby they enjoy." and "as it would occur in real life, which would be with a trans character." aren't openly an attempt to erase the legitimacy of crossdressing then jim crow laws must have been about diner logistics.

I'm sorry I wasn't able to pick out the exact core of your argument from your unbroken block of run-on sentences, but I don't know, dude. Maybe I'm being a bit naive today, but when someone says "I've never really heard of [obscure but real phenomenon], I don't think it happens" and you know for a fact that [obscure but real phenomenon] happens, my first thought is to tell them that yes, actually, it does happen, not to accuse them of being awful bigots and start drawing comparisons to Jim Crow. Like, sure, if they reject your explanation out of hand, or display a continued pattern of willful ignorance, then totally get mad about it, but all this? Really?

And like, you talk a lot about people seeing things in black and white, and drawing up arbitrary cultural battle lines, and that all sounds very nice. Meanwhile, you've completely muddled up the person who hadn't heard about full-time crossdressers with the person who made the reference to free speech, as if they're completely interchangeable because they were nominally on the same side. And you've decided that I'm one of those people who doesn't understand the meaning of genuine representation and just treats it as a game for social points because I've somehow accused you of not wanting trans stories to exist? Because apparently that happened? I can't find you particularly persuasive when it comes to identifying black-and-white thinking, is all I'm saying.

I can see you're clearly very passionate about defending the ability of people who like to crossdress all day every day to see themselves represented in manga, and I get that it really fucking sucks for cis crossdressers to be told that they're actually trans even if they don't know it themselves, but is all this really necessary? If you genuinely think it is, then fuck it, I'll leave you to it, I'm done with this argument either way, but maybe just take a breath for a second?

Maybe I'm being a bit naive today, but when someone says "I've never really heard of [obscure but real phenomenon], I don't think it happens" and you know for a fact that [obscure but real phenomenon] happens, my first thought is to tell them that yes, actually, it does happen, not to accuse them of being awful bigots and start drawing comparisons to Jim Crow. Like, sure, if they reject your explanation out of hand, or display a continued pattern of willful ignorance, then totally get mad about it, but all this? Really?

There is a very big difference between "I've never heard of" and "therefore it shouldn't be depicted", and an even bigger one to get to "because that doesn't exist in real life". That very much is a bigoted mindset and I really don't care to tone down calling someone out for that to what you consider acceptable levels. It's not baseball, you don't get three strikes, it is the words themselves and the ideology they convey that count.

And like, you talk a lot about people seeing things in black and white, and drawing up arbitrary cultural battle lines, and that all sounds very nice. Meanwhile, you've completely muddled up the person who hadn't heard about full-time crossdressers with the person who made the reference to free speech, as if they're completely interchangeable because they were nominally on the same side.

I did no such thing, in fact I only referenced that person briefly in that I find it particularly bullshit a defense, regardless of who you are defending and endorsing in your defense of. I do not mean for that last bit to apply to anyone but the person who said it.

And you've decided that I'm one of those people who doesn't understand the meaning of genuine representation and just treats it as a game for social points because I've somehow accused you of not wanting trans stories to exist? Because apparently that happened?

If the idea that I am not in favor of more trans stories is not what you meant by "you're acting like people wishing for something other than the thousandth [...]" then I apologize for reading too far into your logic. I also do not mean that you as a person, nor anyone else in that thread, don't understand representation. That was more aimed at society at large, and a bit at myself. I think we all sometimes fall into that trap of thinking that because we are part of a diverse culture we can understand diverse cultures as a whole. So I can understand saying something bigoted like that because you believe your experience to be more broad than it is, but at the same time you are still responsible for your words and those that you defend. It is not the duty of the world to present itself to you in order to enrich your understanding, not having been introduced to some culture is not an excuse to say that they don't, and certainly not that they shouldn't, be represented.

is all this really necessary?

I'm afraid this goes to a mistake you made earlier, I'm very much not upset by this. I honestly do not care what you think about any other group of people when you go to bed tonight. In fact I really doubt I'll ever have made much of any change on you or any one else I've ever talked to, more than just on social issues but for pretty much anything I believe, but I find it absolutely necessary to speak my mind in response to such things because it is common and open discourse that allows us to build understanding regardless of whether we agree or not.