Prism, vol1. Hard to even find on market now. Cancelled for legal/plagerisation reasons.

Fucking bullshit if you ask me, but I may be biased due to loving that manga and being really pissed off when it just stopped.

As for other fans who like to have a guy in Yuri for some reason.......uh well.
you do you and take the moral high ground or whatever, if you like doing that. everyone else will live a bit more honest with their desires.

Why are you assuming that I'm talking from a moral high ground? It's not like I'm saying you're a worse person than me or anything remotely similar, I just disagree. It's okay to read a comic just for yuri romance, het romance, ecchi, fights and explosions, scares, aaaaaangst, fluffy stuff, whatever. But I don't think it's fair to criticize a series in either genre for having other sides to it that aren't relevant to one's interests as if that made it objectively worse. Anyway, finding a developed male character isn't a common occurrence in yuri at all. Let's just not expect that it should never happen and let artists display their own take to the genre.

You also seem to assume that by opining as we do we're not being honest with our feelings. Well, I do find a relationship such as Irie and Rin's interesting, like a hundred other things in fiction, and the others surely do too. So really, you shouldn't assume that I'm less honest with my desires than you.

last edited at Jul 18, 2018 10:06AM

Guys being friends with lesbians in yuri is great and should happen more often. Straight girls being friends with lesbians should happen, too.

Not sure if bizarre puritanism or just trolling.

Also perplexed by this idea that having normal, friendly social relations with the opposite sex somehow inherently lessens the yuri, as if it was something too fragile to survive outside grossly artificial hothouse contexts like all-girls boarding schools or something... Almost sounds like the obverse of that certain kind of otaku that blows a gasket over the idea of his 2D waifus so much as speaking to a male that isn't him (or rather one of those featureless homunculi tailor-made for audience self-insert that only too many male leads amount to).

last edited at Jul 18, 2018 11:36AM

Here comes the drama/action part

Also perplexed by this idea that having normal, friendly social relations with the opposite sex somehow inherently lessens the yuri, as if it was something too fragile to survive outside grossly artificial hothouse contexts like all-girls boarding schools or something...

Well, it's a question of balance and tight plotting; the way I see it. As random example, in quite nice Cross Game we've got a baseball anime, right, and it's "a bit" about the relationship between the protagonist and the heroine, of course, but even though both go to school and generally also do other things the only scenes we ever see is them playing baseball, practicing baseball, talking to each other, or talking to other people when there's some relevance to baseball or potentially to the "main" relationship. And that series got a whole 50 episodes, so it's not even short.

This is not because baseball cannot survive outside training fields, and their perfectly normal heterosexual relationship cannot bear the strain of being thrown in between other relationships ... it's merely to tighten the narrative, to show the scenes relevant to the plot (ie winning baseball games and getting the girl). That which doesn't add anything gets cut, that's just good editing, not, I don't know, narrow-mindedness.

Now, obviously your suggestion doesn't come from nowhere and often reactions or how yuri relationships are portrayed indeed come across like "no men allowed here!" It's a problem. It's also a problem that something is in almost all cases either about a lesbian relationship or simply doesn't feature lesbians. It mostly can't, for example, be about softball and only very marginally about lesbians. It'd inevitably be a yuri manga that also features some softball. That's clearly a real issue.

And, certainly, with Rin here we have one of the few examples of a manga that at least tries striking out a tiny bit from this narrow cage. So that's praiseworthy.

But it's still primarily, in any way I read it anyways, some sort of flirtatious yuri story. The relationship between Rin doesn't feel like it'll go anywhere much. And (with the series canceled) that means it feels a bit wasted as there isn't much development - the first few pages about the "people flirt with her / he helps her out / she's too go for any confusion" would have sufficed, imo; there other half of the chapter could have been used for more than a fairly cheap cliffhanger.

Incidentally, there's this vampire series by Melody Taylor, some indie thing, which features (you'll be surprised to learn) a lesbian vampire heroine and her male mentor. It's also about getting her a girlfriend and their relationship, of course, but the "mentoring" relationship is the first one the series tackles; it's very central. However, in that case the guy helps her coming to terms with being a vampire, while she helps him reminding him that even with some tragic past life's not always all rubbish (yeah, it's a bit of a trope-ish thing; I didn't say it was an awesome series ;) ) - so giving space to this made sense as it contributes to the central narrative of the story.

Which this chapter only did in a way that could have been done more effectively, I think. So that's the critique, not there being a guy.

Mh, well, that turned into quite the wall of text. Oh well. Good thing there's so much space on the Internet ...

In a het romance manga where the female MC bonds with her female friends, would you say that's out of place or a waste of time and the artist should stick to her romance? This is the same.

I think there is a idea (that some readers subscribe to) of an "ideally spherical yuri in a vacuum", i.e. a girl-girl coupe who meet, fall in love, and confess to each other, the end, with absolutely zero context regarding the time and place they live in, other relationships in their lives, or anything else that makes fictional characters human. But how is this Platonic ideal of yuri devoid of any actual humanity supposed to elicit an emotional response? That's what I always think when I read complaints about characterization getting in the way of yuri.

ideally spherical yuri in a vacuum

Now that should be the title of a oneshot or something.

ideally spherical yuri in a vacuum

Now that should be the title of a oneshot or something.

Would Be Good Name For A Rock Band

Haha look at this mess of carnage and ideals. Just as predicted.
Elicit human response? So what? If its fun its fun, if its not it not. I dont look to fiction for reality, that takes away the appeal of such made up entertainment. I would watch a live action show if i wanted reality on fiction.

It's ridiculous some people tend to think that fiction and reality should always share the same ideals. Sure lesbian straight friendship is great ideal in the real. But if i wanted to be politicaly correct all the damn time, i woudnt read specialzed niches like GL. Just consider it a difference of ideals and go on with your life. What u want out of yuri and what i want are different.

last edited at Jul 18, 2018 9:52PM

You... were kind of talking like you expected everyone to actually share your particular take on the matter and anyone claiming otherwise to be lying to at least themselves, earlier.

Just sayin'.

And any opinion and matter of taste you deem fit to make public is inherently fair game for disagreement and critique by any part of the audience that feels like doing so, so eh.

Haha look at this mess of carnage and ideals. Just as predicted.
Elicit human response? So what? If its fun its fun, if its not it not. I dont look to fiction for reality, that takes away the appeal of such made up entertainment. I would watch a live action show if i wanted reality on fiction.

It's ridiculous some people tend to think that fiction and reality should always share the same ideals. Sure lesbian straight friendship is great ideal in the real. But if i wanted to be politicaly correct all the damn time, i woudnt read specialzed niches like GL. Just consider it a difference of ideals and go on with your life. What u want out of yuri and what i want are different.

Before I start ranting about this, I'd like to say that I'm sleep-deprived, so this might be nonsensical. But, yeah, I think I should at least be able to get my point across. Also, this is probably bait, isn't it? Literally everything you've said in this thread is complete bullshit, so it probably is, but... whatever.

Don't try to pull that "oh, don't be so politically correct!!" bullshit now, idiot. No one's saying anything about how "fiction and reality should share the same ideals." No one's taking any moral high ground. They're just saying that it's nice to finally have a dude in yuri who's actually just a friend since that pretty much never shows up in yuri (okay, I'm super tired right now, so it's possible that some people actually are, but I'm pretty much most people here aren't... not that it's wrong to believe that anyway but that's besides the point). Call it idealistic, but I call it something relatively unique to the genre. If you're okay with reading the same "girl meets girl at an all-girls school that has all girls and no boys and they fall in love (no boys anywhere)" story over and over again, then that's fine, but some people like to actually spice things up and try out new things. It has nothing to do with being "politically correct." Also, you can't pull that "we just like different things" card when you were the one that claimed that everyone who likes something different is lying to themselves.

ALSO, who says realistic fiction can't be appealing? In most serious works, looking to fiction for reality is... kind of the point. Yeah, sure, not in this manga in particular, but I'd say that's the most appealing part of many fictional works. You're really limiting yourself if you legitimately think that.

And, besides, if you actually one thing right about the Rin being gay thing, I'll take it as a... tradeoff, I suppose. It seems the only thing she's ever written (surely, there must be more than just this and Prunus Girl...?) was a yaoi manga with a yuri sidecouple... and this is, according to you, a yuri manga with a yaoi sidecouple... which seems like it'll be far less important anyway since Shion and her girlfriend were pretty important characters and this new dude definitely won't be. I find Rin to be a funny character myself, and it'd be cool if he's fleshed out a bit. Yeah, I admit that it's a problem that there's only one volume left and a lot will apparently be used on him and I'd definitely prefer more actual yuri, but... I don't share the same dumb reasoning as you, at least. If the series weren't axed, I'd be perfectly fine with it.

last edited at Jul 19, 2018 12:15AM

And any opinion and matter of taste you deem fit to make public is inherently fair game for disagreement and critique by any part of the audience that feels like doing so, so eh.

Huh, who said i didnt expect any debate from dissenters like you? Posted expecting disagreement in the first place. I welcome debate. Go google debate if you dont know what that means. Now if you can't keep up a heated discussion or two, that's yr problem man.
And if the last line didnt make it clear, already said what i want and you want are diff.
Get over it already, geezus.

As for the super long censored reply, didnt bother reading more than a few lines.
Learn to summarize, mr sensitive wikipedia.
BS reasoning? So what? Already made clear that what i expect is diff from yrs. As far as i care about it, yr expectations are just as "BS"

last edited at Jul 19, 2018 8:17PM

So you literally made an acc to post condescending bullshit and posture arrogantly then try to play the victim card, gotcha.

raichu711 posted:

Well, besides having a grown male vampire who bites a high school girl without permission which just feels uneasy to me no matter how comedically it's brushed off; doesn't matter whether he's gay or not.

Because vampires need permission to bite anyone... I sometimes miss the times when vampires were actual scary and not some teenagers hot fantasies. Also "grown" vampire? Do you really want to go into age-gap thing with freaking vampires xD?

Oh and the BL twists near the end, because let's be honest and just acknowledge that not all yuri fans (if not most) are noble enough to accept BL in their yuri. I'm not.

It is sad, that despite being in the same boat, even gays and lesbians hate each other. Not to mention bi.

Looks like someone has shitty life and tries to run away from reality into fiction. I can understand when someone want to read work that focuses on 2 main characters and their romance without any distraction. And there is plenty of works like that. But unless their chemistry is executed really well, that kind of story is just bare-bones. That is why even most yuri works focusing only on romance aspect have at least 1 supporting character. I personally always found those "all girls school where all characters are lesbians and create couples and they are all friends to each other" very unrealistic. I can still enjoy those stories though. I don't remember which mangaka said it and it goes back to what random said, but basically it goes something like: "I can get behind romance more when it is world where both guys and girls exist. Because when it is just girls, it feels like there is no other option, but when guys also exist, it just strengthen the fact that character choose girl over a guy." I'm not saying all stories have to do it, but to me having a male character can be a actual strength of the work, rather than weakness. Sure, you can make manga with only girls in it, but the matter of fact is, guys exist, so chances of 1 of them appearing in story is very high and I agree that good, well-developed male supporting characters in yuri, are few and far between. So reading any work that actually have one is very refreshing.

I expect you to ignore what I wrote and insult me for some stupid reason like knowing how to write words properly, so I'm mostly writing it for discussion with other people.

last edited at Jul 20, 2018 11:17AM

I don't remember which mangaka said it and it goes back to what random said, but basically it goes something like: "I can get behind romance more when it is world where both guys and girls exist. Because when it is just girls, it feels like there is no other option, but when guys also exist, it just strengthen the fact that character choose girl over a guy."

Nakatani Nio.

h3x posted:

I don't remember which mangaka said it and it goes back to what random said, but basically it goes something like: "I can get behind romance more when it is world where both guys and girls exist. Because when it is just girls, it feels like there is no other option, but when guys also exist, it just strengthen the fact that character choose girl over a guy."

Nakatani Nio.

Right. After writing it down I felt like she was the one.

When will the internet stop responding to obvious bait?

kiby posted:

When will the internet stop responding to obvious bait?

Never. Obviously.

That was a lovely chapter. I want more Nana and actual relationship progression, but that was worth the pages. This is a slice of life thus far, and them hanging out definitely belongs there. Hell, they spent the whole time talking about how much of a lesbian she is, too lol. I'll take it.

Also I absolutely love how concrete the MCs sexuality is. I think it feels especially notable because back at the beginning it sounded like a set-up for a wishy washy "She prefers to drink women's blood" as a metaphor but then Rin flatly stating that she's explicitly gay, and I fucking love how her response to it was basically just "Y'know that makes sense." Like, no real angst or denial. And now that we're actually seeing her interact with men she has become very vocal about how unambiguously gay she is. Lol

last edited at Jul 23, 2018 5:24AM

It's a drought u-u

For the french people around, the manga as been licensed and the first volume is out next month !

And now that we're actually seeing her interact with men she has become very vocal about how unambiguously gay she is. Lol

That panel where she admits that girls-only school are actually paradise is basically the pinnacle of gayness.

If someone could pick this up and complete the last volume, that'd be great.

anyone kno what the onomatopoeia at the top of page 142 is? (i may look rly late to the party, but i’m just back to reread one of my favorite scenes)