I hope Touma falls in love with someone and it never becomes requited, so she can get a taste of her own medicine. And truly, how could one get charmed by a person like her. She is basically an air-headed idiot with average looks.

First off, chill... It's not that serious. Secondly, I actually would like that to happen, but for a different reason. Maybe after that happens she'll realize what she's been doing to some girls up until that point. With it possibly being followed by some flashbacks or something.

Also, have you seen harem anime? That's pretty much the whole setup and there are tons of those out there. People still watch it, though. It's different here. Touma isn't our focus, she's the focus of the girls who fall for her charms. Our focus are the girls who do and the self-discovery journey they go on.

Lastly, "average looks"? That sounds a bit salty to me.

Compared to the other girls in the manga, she is average to worse. And in harem anime the MC is usually somehow innocent and ends up trying to push away the attention, but here the MC is basically like a pervert who can actually get her hands on people and not just have wishful thinking about doing things with people. The word "like" is key here, since I wouldn't want to have my words twisted around.

last edited at May 17, 2018 2:30PM

You do realise a lot of very successful seducers (of either sex) IRL aren't even spectacularly good-looking? It's more about interpersonal skills and that ever-ephemeral "charm" or "charisma" or whatever you want to call it.

And Touma really comes across as someone who doesn't quite grasp the actual meaning of what they're doing. She probably just thinks she's being nice.

last edited at May 17, 2018 3:01PM

Touma seems dumb af and all the girls are falling for her I don't get it

You do realise a lot of very successful seducers (of either sex) IRL aren't even spectacularly good-looking? It's more about interpersonal skills and that ever-ephemeral "charm" or "charisma" or whatever you want to call it.

And Touma really comes across as someone who doesn't quite grasp the actual meaning of what they're doing. She probably just thinks she's being nice.

Let's agree to disagree on the looks part, because no one extremely ugly, even if they were the most charismatic person in the world, could be great at seducing people. That is just not how things work. Looks matter more than people want to believe, because lying to themselves about things they don't have makes them feel better.

I also get that she might not know what she is doing, but that in no way makes it less cringe and bad. If someone stole without knowing it was bad, they would still get punished, because what is done is done.

Touma seems dumb af and all the girls are falling for her I don't get it

Insert *Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well" meme

Touma knows she's doing cute girls' hair nicely and having casual sex with them. She doesn't understand what hang-ups other people would have about that, but that's part of why she's able to do it. It would be seedy if someone who understood did it anyway, but Touma probably wouldn't do it if she did understand, which would be kind of a shame rather than a good thing.

Let's agree to disagree on the looks part, because no one extremely ugly, even if they were the most charismatic person in the world, could be great at seducing people. That is just not how things work. Looks matter more than people want to believe, because lying to themselves about things they don't have makes them feel better.

You sure showed that strawman who's boss.

last edited at May 17, 2018 4:24PM

God damn most of you take this silly ass manga WAY to seriously

I briefly went to grad school for literature, so yeah...

Let's agree to disagree on the looks part, because no one extremely ugly, even if they were the most charismatic person in the world, could be great at seducing people.

This is simply false. I have known personally of two people who were, if not “extremely ugly,” definitely physically unattractive who had a constant stream of partners, almost all of whom most outside observers would consider to be significantly more attractive than they were. One of them routinely got out of bed with one person to go have sex with another one before going home to their spouse.

Call it “charisma,” call it a miracle, call it whatever you want, but I can guarantee that those people were exceptionally “attractive” without being good-looking at all.

I think the girls are more attracted to her hair skills than anything else bc they don’t particularly talk abt her looks its more like “touma-kun youre so nice, do my hair too!! make me pretty!”

Touma has a real potential to be the next really powerful cult leader. I mean she's got the whole student body and all the teachers under her thumb at this point. She's just waiting on her world debut

last edited at May 17, 2018 11:17PM

Let's agree to disagree on the looks part, because no one extremely ugly, even if they were the most charismatic person in the world, could be great at seducing people.

This is simply false. I have known personally of two people who were, if not “extremely ugly,” definitely physically unattractive who had a constant stream of partners, almost all of whom most outside observers would consider to be significantly more attractive than they were. One of them routinely got out of bed with one person to go have sex with another one before going home to their spouse.

Call it “charisma,” call it a miracle, call it whatever you want, but I can guarantee that those people were exceptionally “attractive” without being good-looking at all.

Looks are subjective. You might think they were ugly, but others might think they are gorgeous. And also, the dude fucking around when having a spouse is a piece of shit.

Looks are subjective. You might think they were ugly, but others might think they are gorgeous. And also, the dude fucking around when having a spouse is a piece of shit.

The first part kicks the chair from under your own previous argument. The second, while arguably true, is irrelevant to the topic except inasmuch that it illustrates being a dodgy bloke is no issue. ʅ ( • ε • ) ʃ

Looks are subjective. You might think they were ugly, but others might think they are gorgeous. And also, the dude fucking around when having a spouse is a piece of shit.

The first part kicks the chair from under your own previous argument. The second, while arguably true, is irrelevant to the topic except inasmuch that it illustrates being a dodgy bloke is no issue. ʅ ( • ε • ) ʃ

When did I ever say that looks are not subjective though? Of course, there are looks who more people find attractive, aka. toned body, symmetrical face, tall, nice skin, but some like things like obese women, hence the BBW fetish. Also, there is no way to prove the legitimacy of your claim, since it could be something you made up. Looking at it from an objective standpoint, seducers are mostly to always great looking.

She's clearly a succubus.

SomethingOrOther posted:

Looking at it from an objective standpoint, seducers are mostly to always great looking.

You clearly don't understand how charisma and seduction work. If you were so good looking women go to bed with you without issue, you wouldn't need to seduce them in the first place.

Also "looking from an objective standpoint". Lol. And where is your prove majority of seducers are good looking?

...I just have a feeling that Touma's seducing magic has already made its way into the discussion. So here we have faction 1: people who find her amusing and charismatic, and faction 2: people who realize that they don't want to be in a cult lololol

^ Let's agree to disagree. The latest chapter seriously gives me a manipulative vibe. I guess I am out of here. I don't even know if I want Touma-kun to suffer or to be happy anymore lol

This has nothing to do with what I want for the characters or what my values are. The story says that Touma is crazy charismatic and irresistible, so that’s what she is.

Also I am just coming back to say that "dude, chills~ I am not judging you or anything". I was just saying Touma-kun is nothing close to charismatic because the people around her seem to be under her spell when she didn't even cast any spell... That just puzzles me, that's all (one of the many reasons I don't like Harem genre)

Look, charisma is a thing. Some people have a kind of magnetic personality that draws other people to them and that makes those people believe in them. In fact, charismatic people often don’t have to directly say things and other people go away thinking, “That person is great and really likes me—we share a special bond,” even if the other person never actually said or did anything to make them think that.

Some of those people use that ability to get other people into bed, and some of those people are far from matching conventional standards of beauty. I worked with one such person (a guy, 3 out of 10 on the beauty scale) and was a distant acquaintance of another (a woman, maybe 3.5/10).

And Touma-kun, whatever one’s “subjective” evaluation of her beauty, clearly is charismatic.

EDIT:

I was just saying Touma-kun is nothing close to charismatic because the people around her seem to be under her spell when she didn't even cast any spell.

LOL—that’s the textbook definition of “charismatic.” And I’ll say it again—the question is not whether readers find Touma charismatic, the characters in the story obviously do.

last edited at May 18, 2018 7:01AM

SomethingOrOther posted:

Looking at it from an objective standpoint, seducers are mostly to always great looking.

You clearly don't understand how charisma and seduction work. If you were so good looking women go to bed with you without issue, you wouldn't need to seduce them in the first place.

Also "looking from an objective standpoint". Lol. And where is your prove majority of seducers are good looking?

Do you even know what seducing means? So you are telling me that seducers are ugly with great charisma? Oh do you have it all wrong.Look at Casanova, the most renowned seducer in the world. In his times, his looks were most sought after. Look at Ted Bundy, a serial killer with lack of emotions, mischievous, and also great looking. Name one well known seducer who is ugly, I'm waiting. And don't you dare name Uganda's ugliest man. He may have had 3 wives and has 8 children, but that is because he is famous for something and also has a heart of gold. At least that is what his 3rd wife says. Just because you are the ugliest man, doesn't mean there won't be people who find you attractive. All I am saying is, that people who get it on a lot are good looking. If you look at famous people with great looks, they have had up to 77 known partners.

SomethingOrOther posted:

SomethingOrOther posted:

Looking at it from an objective standpoint, seducers are mostly to always great looking.

You clearly don't understand how charisma and seduction work. If you were so good looking women go to bed with you without issue, you wouldn't need to seduce them in the first place.

Also "looking from an objective standpoint". Lol. And where is your prove majority of seducers are good looking?

Do you even know what seducing means? So you are telling me that seducers are ugly with great charisma? Oh do you have it all wrong.Look at Casanova, the most renowned seducer in the world. In his times, his looks were most sought after. Look at Ted Bundy, a serial killer with lack of emotions, mischievous, and also great looking.

I never said all seducers are ugly. You're the one saying they all have to be certain way. It's nice that you at least can name some examples, though 2 is nowhere near "majority". Also yes. I do. It is the act of tempting someone to do something (usually sex). Nowhere it says you are supposed to tempt only with your good looks. In fact, I bet both examples you stated had also charming personality (or at least knew how to talk to girls) as well as good looks. The point is you can seduce people without looking like top model from fashion magazine, but it definitely make it easier. Also I love how you assume all women are so shallow they will go to bed with anyone as long as they are good looking. Sure some will, but even the best looking man in the world need to have something else going for him if he wants all ladies to flock to him. That is where charisma comes into play.

Name one well known seducer who is ugly, I'm waiting. And don't you dare name Uganda's ugliest man. He may have had 3 wives and has 8 children, but that is because he is famous for something and also has a heart of gold. At least that is what his 3rd wife says. Just because you are the ugliest man, doesn't mean there won't be people who find you attractive. All I am saying is, that people who get it on a lot are good looking. If you look at famous people with great looks, they have had up to 77 known partners.

Man, you are so hypocritical. So he doesn't count because he is famous, but other famous people who happened to be good looking do? Also the part about heart of gold is basically what charisma and seduction is in a nutshell. You get people interested into you by other values than your look. It's sad to hear someone honestly believe women don't care about people being smart, interesting, funny etc. and only want to fuck pretty people regardless of their personality.

Honestly, I wrote much more than you deserved, because you are condescending af in your posts and act as if what you say is some ultimate truth everyone should agree with, while making pretty hasty generalizations on top of that. I don't expect to convince you, since you clearly think you already figured everything out and nobody can prove you wrong, so I'm not going to bother with you more than that.

EDIT/ I did a quick google search:
"Many of Bundy's young female victims regarded him as handsome and charismatic, which were traits that he exploited to win their trust."
He strove to be the ideal escort in the first act— witty, charming, confidential, helpful—before moving into the bedroom in the third act.

last edited at May 18, 2018 10:45AM

SomethingOrOther posted:

SomethingOrOther posted:

Looking at it from an objective standpoint, seducers are mostly to always great looking.

You clearly don't understand how charisma and seduction work. If you were so good looking women go to bed with you without issue, you wouldn't need to seduce them in the first place.

Also "looking from an objective standpoint". Lol. And where is your prove majority of seducers are good looking?

Do you even know what seducing means? So you are telling me that seducers are ugly with great charisma? Oh do you have it all wrong.Look at Casanova, the most renowned seducer in the world. In his times, his looks were most sought after. Look at Ted Bundy, a serial killer with lack of emotions, mischievous, and also great looking.

I never said all seducers are ugly. You're the one saying they all have to be certain way. It's nice that you at least can name some examples, though 2 is nowhere near "majority". Also yes. I do. It is the act of tempting someone to do something (usually sex). Nowhere it says you are supposed to tempt only with your good looks. In fact, I bet both examples you stated had also charming personality (or at least knew how to talk to girls) as well as good looks. The point is you can seduce people without looking like top model from fashion magazine, but it definitely make it easier. Also I love how you assume all women are so shallow they will go to bed with anyone as long as they are good looking. Sure some will, but even the best looking man in the world need to have something else going for him if he wants all ladies to flock to him. That is where charisma comes into play.

Name one well known seducer who is ugly, I'm waiting. And don't you dare name Uganda's ugliest man. He may have had 3 wives and has 8 children, but that is because he is famous for something and also has a heart of gold. At least that is what his 3rd wife says. Just because you are the ugliest man, doesn't mean there won't be people who find you attractive. All I am saying is, that people who get it on a lot are good looking. If you look at famous people with great looks, they have had up to 77 known partners.

Man, you are so hypocritical. So he doesn't count because he is famous, but other famous people who happened to be good looking do? Also the part about heart of gold is basically what charisma and seduction is in a nutshell. You get people interested into you by other values than your look. It's sad to hear someone honestly believe women don't care about people being smart, interesting, funny etc. and only want to fuck pretty people regardless of their personality.

Honestly, I wrote much more than you deserved, because you are condescending af in your posts and act as if what you say is some ultimate truth everyone should agree with, while making pretty hasty generalizations on top of that. I don't expect to convince you, since you clearly think you already figured everything out and nobody can prove you wrong, so I'm not going to bother with you more than that.

EDIT/ I did a quick google search:
"Many of Bundy's young female victims regarded him as handsome and charismatic, which were traits that he exploited to win their trust."
He strove to be the ideal escort in the first act— witty, charming, confidential, helpful—before moving into the bedroom in the third act.

I wish I could put pictures here so I could show you this http://memes.ucoz.com/news/my_point_you/2016-09-18-3273
I never said they didn´t have charisma. Where did you get that from? All i am saying is, that charisma by itself will never make you into a seducer. The Ugandan dude is also not a seducer. Having a wife is different from having sex with many people each day. Imagine him at a club trying to get chicks. That would not end so well. He might even get thrown out. I gave two examples just so you could get the point (which you clearly didn't). I could name hundreds whilst you can't even name one from the top of your head. Yes, you didn't say that "all" seducers are ugly, but you said "If you were so good looking women go to bed with you without issue, you wouldn't need to seduce them in the first place." and you also disagree with the statement that the majority of seducers are good looking. An unknown dude or woman who is fucking hideous could mostly never seduce someone, no matter how charismatic.

Nevri, I believe we have encountered one of those rare people with the ineffable quality of never being wrong. It’s sort of like charisma, except it only works on themselves.

Moving on, I think Touma-kun is, if not “beautiful” by the current conventions of yuri manga, quite interesting looking in an ambiguously-gendered sort of way—very much the sort of look that (in terms of yuri tropes) would be attractive in an all-girls school.

I'm not a big fan of her hairstyle but she's definitely got a nice enough face. :d

Nevri, I believe we have encountered one of those rare people with the ineffable quality of never being wrong. It’s sort of like charisma, except it only works on themselves.

Moving on, I think Touma-kun is, if not “beautiful” by the current conventions of yuri manga, quite interesting looking in an ambiguously-gendered sort of way—very much the sort of look that (in terms of yuri tropes) would be attractive in an all-girls school.

The difference between facts and opinion is that, no matter what your opinion is, a fact is still a fact. You are basing your argument on mob mentality. Just because more people believe something, doesn't mean it is true. People didn't believe Copernicus and Isaac Newton, but what they said was and still is true. Arguing with "Ugh, this person just doesn't understand our opinion" does not make your statement any more true or false. It just makes you look as if you have no counter-argument.