Well that’s pretty fucked.

Well, I don't like either of these people.

You are not expected to.

this was sooooooo good i love it when relationships are treated as messy and weird and like real life fuck shit for once

Fix'd it for ya...

Gosh, after 52 years I've suddenly learned that all this time I wasn't living in real life!

last edited at Nov 24, 2017 7:21PM

I like how I can see all the spices turn up in comments for pieces like this =]]

I recognize this art style anywhere. Would be great if he/she keeps drawing yuri works

I recognize this art style anywhere. Would be great if he/she keeps drawing yuri works

Mostly yuri I think. Look it up some untranslated works on ehentai.

Why be so quick to jump into condemning these characters as absolute terrible people? Certain behaviors may give a tiny glimpse into their overall personality, but by no means is there any reason to assume that their entire personality is bad.

To me, such treatment hurts more than this story.

last edited at Nov 24, 2017 10:27PM

Hokuto posted:

Why be so quick to jump into condemning these characters as absolute terrible people? Certain behaviors may give a tiny glimpse into their overall personality, but by no means is there any reason to assume that their entire personality is bad.

To me, such treatment hurts more than this story.

Because cheating is a shit thing to do to your partner. It's as simple as that.

I like how they stop walking at the same time in the end.

Anyone knows if there are more yuri one shots by this artist?

What a lovely story. There's always something touching about seeing two twisted souls condemned to suffer with each other.

It's been a long time since I read something this interesting here, Yuzumori-san aside. I really liked how the mangaka tackled the theme of cheating, and Azusa's point of view. The story itself is relatable and, be it good or bad, cheating on your partner can be very .. arousing.

Because cheating is a shit thing to do to your partner. It's as simple as that.

Sure, but some people here act as if they were serial killers or something. For all we know, they spend the rest of their lives doing charity work, saving kittens and puppies, and helping old people across streets.

But cheat twice and you are worse than [take_your_pick]!

^Betreyal is the worst sin.

Sure, but some people here act as if they were serial killers or something.

If one of them was a serial killer that might make for a better plot device.

"I cheated on my girlfriend with a girl I knew 12 years ago in high school. Apparently she's a serial killer."

We can then spend the next 5 vols. debating on which is worse: the cheating or the serial killing. /s

two twisted souls condemned to suffer with each other

I am not sure where the suffering is supposed to be. Azusa clearly did not feel bad at any point. Midori felt bad momentarily when her girlfriend called, and later when she was rejected and realised what kind of a relationship this is. Not exactly rising to the level of suffering. If they continue with this, which they probably will, I rather doubt there would be much actual suffering. And if there would be, I imagine it would mostly be centred on Midori, because she is the one who genuinely expressed wanting a relationship with Azusa, even though it is obvious she gets off on the cheating as well.

two twisted souls condemned to suffer with each other

I am not sure where the suffering is supposed to be. Azusa clearly did not feel bad at any point. Midori felt bad momentarily when her girlfriend called, and later when she was rejected and realised what kind of a relationship this is. Not exactly rising to the level of suffering. If they continue with this, which they probably will, I rather doubt there would be much actual suffering. And if there would be, I imagine it would mostly be centred on Midori, because she is the one who genuinely expressed wanting a relationship with Azusa, even though it is obvious she gets off on the cheating as well.

Though they try to hide it, you can see the self-hatred.

ITT: People mentally pencilling themselves into the story in the role of the off-screen girlfriends.

Pyoro posted:

Sure, but some people here act as if they were serial killers or something. For all we know, they spend the rest of their lives doing charity work, saving kittens and puppies, and helping old people across streets.

But cheat twice and you are worse than [take_your_pick]!

As h3x said, betrayal is a pretty huge sin in most peoples' eyes. Look at works like Dante's Inferno, the lowest level of Hell is reserved for those who betray others.

Vankomycin posted:

ITT: People mentally pencilling themselves into the story in the role of the off-screen girlfriends.

Or... People just think cheating is such a shitty thing to do that they think lowly of anyone who does it regardless of whether it actually directly affects them or not. I'm quite disgusted with the amount of people in here defending cheating as if it's something to be encouraged.

I'm quite disgusted with the amount of people in here defending cheating as if it's something to be encouraged.

Except no one did that. People here seem divided between those who liked the characters and the story, those who liked the story but disliked the characters, and those who just flat out disliked the whole thing. But even amongst people who are in the first category, such as myself, no one was defending cheating, much less treated it as something to be encouraged. You are seeing things that are just not present.

UranusAndNeptuneAreJustCousins posted:

Except no one did that. People here seem divided between those who liked the characters and the story, those who liked the story but disliked the characters, and those who just flat out disliked the whole thing. But even amongst people who are in the first category, such as myself, no one was defending cheating, much less treated it as something to be encouraged. You are seeing things that are just not present.

People shitting on people who are saying cheating is a shitty thing to do and that both these characters are extremely shitty people for doing it suggests otherwise. If that's not what they're meaning to do then they should be more careful trying to get their point across.

People shitting on people who are saying cheating is a shitty thing to do and that both these characters are extremely shitty people for doing it suggests otherwise. If that's not what they're meaning to do then they should be more careful trying to get their point across.

Or perhaps you should stop reading whatever makes you angriest into people's comments then complaining about something they never intended? Discussing characters in a story is different than discussing real life. And why do you care so much even if other people don't find cheating as reprehensible as you seem to?

Personally, I find stories about cheating much more interesting than stories about being cheated on. In the second case, the primary feeling, betrayal, dominates everything else, while in the first case you get far more interesting questions about what would drive someone to do something they know is wrong, and how they react to their own actions.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 4:58PM

People shitting on people who are saying cheating is a shitty thing to do and that both these characters are extremely shitty people for doing it suggests otherwise. If that's not what they're meaning to do then they should be more careful trying to get their point across.

I guess we operate under different definitions of 'defending' and 'encouraging', then. People who did that were of the it-is-not-*that*-bad variety, they were not saying this thing is perfectly alright. Such stances depend on personal views, and can be discussed, but again, no one was trying to defend the cheating itself, much less present it as something worth encouraging.
Also, no one was "shitting" on anyone, unless your definition of the term is 'not agreeing fully'.

Edit: Well, I guess the comment with "pencilling themselves" could be seen as such, though it is a relatively mild example. That is about it.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 5:18PM

Cheating is an integral part of this story and we get to see the POV of the cheater(s) and their reason for doing so.

Like in The Feelings We All Must Endure

We don't have to agree with their actions or their reasoning. It's just a peek into their mind.

And I personally think it's interesting.

This couple here are both cheating and getting off of it. We don't have to empathize with the unknown partners, we are invited to observe a twisted relationship and how these two women are somehow doomed to repeat the same process over and over, because they can't go on in their life without it. Their relationship is a bit on the S&M side.

last edited at Nov 25, 2017 5:11PM

As h3x said, betrayal is a pretty huge sin in most peoples' eyes. Look at works like Dante's Inferno, the lowest level of Hell is reserved for those who betray others.

Except that those two would be in the 2nd circle for Lust, not in the 9th for Treachery - that's about betrayal of kin, country, and so on, not cheating. In fact, Dante specifically meets a cheater in the 2nd circle - and after hearing her story, he faints out of pity, overcome with the cruelty of her fate for loving someone else when she was already married.

Not because he was utterly horrified by the idea of cheating.

Just saying.

At the end of the day, yes, the characters are extremely shitty people for cheating on their spouses, but the thing that makes this doujin good is the introspective-ish vibe that plays throughout. Not to mention the message portrayed about not being able to break a bad habit despite how harmful it is to you and others close to you. The bad habit being cheating and how it makes Midori hate herself and fear that she'll be hated by her spouse once she finds out. This is essentially the story about a person who has a fetish for cheating on their partner and their cheating causes them to develop a self-hatred for them self. If this doujin was glorifying the act of cheating then yeah this doujin would suck complete ass, but it's instead being a more mature take on it.

Not to mention Azusa is practically your average girl-who-thinks-she's-justified-for-cheating-because-it's-arousing type who you'd see in a Kodama Naoko work.