So I WANT this to have a triad ending but I'm expecting an inconclusive non-end where the status quo reigns.

Kotooka's chapter was awesome! I mean damn when Soccer girl (I suck at names okay spelling them anyway) ate the star and then thanked her .... Best expression Kotooka has ever had!

Not usually a fan of the love triangle bit, but this is too good to pass up.

I know right! This is how love triangles should be done. It's written so well and the characters are likeable.

Kotooka is slowly growing feelings for Tsukasa, but doesn't act on them because she wants everyone to remain friends.

No Kotooka DOES have feelings for Tsukasa, it's the main reason she was trying to push her towards dude bro. Because if she's taken she won't have to/won't be able to act on her feelings for her.

I got the impression that, at first, she was pushing Tsukasa into this to keep all her friends normal because she knew that Tsukasa liked Nadeshiko. If she could make Tsukasa 'normal' then the friendship between the three would continue. Maybe different interpretations?

It was pretty heavily implied in the first chapter that Kotooka was in love with Tsukasa, and it's even more confirmed in this one, so I'm pretty sure that the other person's interpretation is correct in this case. Yeah, she does want to make them all "normal," but that's not really the main reason.

Well Kotooka is right. The only way out of the triangle is to break one of the sides. Even if it has to be het.

So I WANT this to have a triad ending but I'm expecting an inconclusive non-end where the status quo reigns.

I think it would end the same way the trio from Kindred Spirits ended, with Tsukasa and Washio together and Kotooka as the person who help them be together. It's way too obvious that its going that route tbh. The hints about Washio's first love wearing a lame takoyaki shirt, hints about Tsukasa looking like a little boy in her younger days and her taste for food in her apparel and the part about Kotooka being the only one who understand the feelings of both of her friends.

Funny seeing everyone suddenly change their minds from "Kotooka is so annoying omg!!" to her suddenly being the favorite... She's been the most interesting one from the start. Not sure how y'all didn't see it ;]

Though now I want her with Nadeshiko, since she's smart too and seems to have caught onto how Kotooka feels. They can date and be all introspective together, yay

She was annoying and the worst for the first 5 chapters without a doubt. She acted like she knew what was best for Tsukasa by almost forcing her into dating a guy she clearly wasn't interested and she was extremely nosy during her date as well. BUT, once we saw why she was so annoying at first, everyone warmed up to her since she's probably the one who's hurting the most out of the whole group since she knows the girl she likes is into the person who likes her and none of that can't happen, according to her.

It was pretty clear early on though that she knew more than she was letting on. A few other clever folks saw it. Hats off to you guys!

It's easy to change your mind once you see her side of the story, but all I'm saying was that there was clearly more from the beginning and that she wasn't being annoying for no reason. I didn't find her annoying because of that. But I guess if you didn't see it, you didnt see it.

Just give the story some time and give my girl Kotooka the chance she deserves!

last edited at Nov 21, 2016 1:01PM

It was pretty clear early on though that she knew more than she was letting on. A few other clever folks saw it. Hats off to you guys!

It's easy to change your mind once you see her side of the story, but all I'm saying was that there was clearly more from the beginning and that she wasn't being annoying for no reason. I didn't find her annoying because of that. But I guess if you didn't see it, you didnt see it.

Just give the story some time and give my girl Kotooka the chance she deserves!

It was clear that she had some sort of cliched reason as to why she acted the way she did. Nothing clever about noticing it since its the way the story was laid out. I thought that her reason was the typical "Girls can't be together due to this girl saying it to me in the past" and that was about it. While that still might be the case, i never thought that she was aware of both of her friends feelings, thats the part that made me don't dislike her anymore since she's the one thats suffering the most.

Still, knowing her reason doesn't change the fact that she was pretty annoying during the first 5 chapters. Forcing her friend into dating a guy she didn't like or even knew and then getting way too nosy during her date. I get why she acted like that, but that doesn't mean it was the right thing to do or that it wasn't annoying.

Well Kotooka is right. The only way out of the triangle is to break one of the sides. Even if it has to be het.

Polyamorous 3-way.
Not that it'll happen, just saying technically breaking a side isn't the only way out of the triangle.
And it'd probably work fairly well. After all, although each only loves one of the other two, they all like each other very much.

Kotooka is slowly growing feelings for Tsukasa, but doesn't act on them because she wants everyone to remain friends.

No Kotooka DOES have feelings for Tsukasa, it's the main reason she was trying to push her towards dude bro. Because if she's taken she won't have to/won't be able to act on her feelings for her.

I got the impression that, at first, she was pushing Tsukasa into this to keep all her friends normal because she knew that Tsukasa liked Nadeshiko. If she could make Tsukasa 'normal' then the friendship between the three would continue. Maybe different interpretations?

It was pretty heavily implied in the first chapter that Kotooka was in love with Tsukasa, and it's even more confirmed in this one, so I'm pretty sure that the other person's interpretation is correct in this case. Yeah, she does want to make them all "normal," but that's not really the main reason.

Yes, it was implied that she had feelings for Tsukasa in the first chapter and this chapter totally confirmed it. (Working so hard to make cream puffs because they were Tsukasa's favorite, etc... Probably also the thing that will tip off Nadeshiko to Kotooka's feelings, though she might not understand why she continues to go out with any guy who asks her out. Then again, it may make her understand why she is so indiscriminate about guys... She doesn't care about them at all and is trying to compensate for the love she knows she shouldn't/can't have.)

I think that this manga is someone of a deeper, more serious treatment of same sex relationships as they are currently seen in Japan than most yuri manga. Something it has in common with Milk Morinaga's Girl Friends and a few others, though there is certainly a healthy dose of silly to go along with the serious here. But the three girl's opinions of the realistic future chances of their same sex loves fit very much with a culture that doesn't talk about, or acknowledge, the legitimacy of such relationships and treats them, at best, as a "phase" that you will grow out of once you become an adult.

Contrast that with Whispered Words (Sasameki Koto), which I dearly love and think has one of the most positive and affirming messages of any yuri manga. However, in that story, the issue is exactly what the first poster was thinking. Sumi is afraid that, if she makes her feelings known she will lose her best friend. (In addition to the fact that she feels that she is totally NOT Ushio's type and therefore she could never fall for her.)

Unlike that story, in this one and Girl Friends, a large part of the reticence of at least Kotooka and Mari is the concept that their feelings are wrong and won't be accepted by society, even if they would be accepted by the other person. Hence Kotooka is pushing Tsukasa to accept the guy's confession so she will no longer have the option to act on her feelings and maybe these "unnatural urges", as she has been socialized to perceive them, will fade away.

That is a stark contrast to much modern western lesbian fiction, where the only characters that have that type of problem are ones from extreme religious backgrounds.

last edited at Nov 21, 2016 2:12PM

zensunni posted:
Contrast that with Whispered Words (Sasameki Koto), which I dearly love and think has one of the most positive and affirming messages of any yuri manga. However, in that story, the issue is exactly what the first poster was thinking. Sumi is afraid that, if she makes her feelings known she will lose her best friend. (In addition to the fact that she feels that she is totally NOT Ushio's type and therefore she could never fall for her.)

You are belittling Sasameki Koto. It clearly addresses, from the start, the stigma that comes with being a lesbian. From the start to finish, Ushio struggles for acceptance and that only happens because Sumika and a few other supportive characters are there to watch her back. And in conclusion, the grandmother says to them that it will be difficult. Sasameki Koto never shied away from addressing the consequences of a same sex relationship. Including hurting your family (the father who dreamt Sumika would inherit the dojo by marrying a karateka).

Unlike that story, in this one and Girl Friends, a large part of the reticence of at least Kotooka and Mari is the concept that their feelings are wrong and won't be accepted by society, even if they would be accepted by the other person. Hence Kotooka is pushing Tsukasa to accept the guy's confession so she will no longer have the option to act on her feelings and maybe these "unnatural urges", as she has been socialized to perceive them, will fade away.

The social aspect of being in a same sex relationship is much more lightly addressed in Nanashi... Washio doesn't think anything is wrong about liking Kotooka. Tsukasa isn't too sure what is liking someone. Only Kotooka seems to struggle with the idea, but it's not clearly stated that it's because it wouldn't be accepted by other people. Aren't they middle-schoolers? Middle-school girls dating would raise a few eyebrows, but most people in Japan would think of it as "just a phase".

I got the impression that, at first, she was pushing Tsukasa into this to keep all her friends normal because she knew that Tsukasa liked Nadeshiko. If she could make Tsukasa 'normal' then the friendship between the three would continue. Maybe different interpretations?

I'd say it's certainly part of it, I think where we differ is our interpretations of the characters and their reasons for acting but that's only a guess really.

Kotooka does want her friends to have some semblance of "normalcy" in order to maintain the friendship that all three of them currently have. But that's because they're in a love circle rather than a love triangle, in my opinion a love triangle implies that there are two people competing for the same person rather than the situation they're currently in. Leaving my opinions on that aside, is the biggest issue for any of them getting in a relationship with one of the others is how much it'll change the group dynamic.

This is easiest to see with Kotooka (Who had the single best chapter so far) as she's in the precarious situation of realizing the feelings of both her friends. Kotooka is in love Tsukasa but recognizes that she doesn't love her back, as she has feelings for Washio. From my understanding Kotooka's dilemma comes from wanting her friends to be happy but she can't act on any of her feelings as that will leave someone out in the cold.

By not accepting Washio's feelings for her and not acting on her own love for Tsukasa she risks pushing them towards each other which would leave her to wallow in her own unrequited love and possibly breaking Tsukasa's heart as Washio doesn't recognize her feelings for her. By accepting Washio's feelings for her she takes the object of Tsukasa's love, causing both of them pain as Kotooka has to accept what she's done to the person who actually holds her affections.

In Kotooka's eyes "normalcy" is a far better option than possibly destroying their friendship. She wants to engineer a situation in which the three of them can stay together for as long as possible, and if that means forsaking the romantic feelings of everyone? She seems to be that determined at least.

Now onto other things:

Did anyone else notice how Subaru dressing as his sister is very reminiscent of his namesake constellation? Subaru being another name for the Pleiades, or the Seven Sisters/Daughters of Pleione. As well as taking the Japanese meaning of the word which is "Coming Together." Seemingly he wants to be as close to his sister as possible, which is why he dresses as her.

Ah well, interpretations aside for now:

Personally while I'm a fan of Tsukasa and Washio together, I wouldn't mind seeing Tsukasa and Kotooka together, either. But for the former, I would then like to see Kotooka getting together with Subaru, because, hey, then they can all be happy together!

Just reread again and oh my god "Scales" is such a good chapter. It just pushes this manga up a notch. That last line in it as well really just sums up how hopeless the whole scenario is

so gooood

Tbh, I seriously, like, srsly want Kotooka to be with Tsukasa.No matter what. Washio can surely deal with it somehow. But polyamory doesn't sound bad at all.

I am BUZZING.

Ah seems like my hope for a Washio and Tsukasa end game won't be happening. This kind of manga where person A likes person B but knows person B likes person C, still person A end up being together with person B in the end. That's how it all ends -_- and Kotooka being understanding and not expecting to be liked back, that kind of manga character mostly end up with the person they like..I mean it's basically the same situation for the three of them but I sense Kotooka having more importance in this manga than Washio -_- and I just don't like her for Tsukasa. She's okay but I want Washio and Tsukasa end game. I don't know if I should keep reading this. I might just end up with a broken heart -_-

So, we got more hints at how this is going to unfold eventually. Kotooka is going to be the one that gets Washio and Tsukasa together in the end by rejecting Washio and telling her how Tsukasa always felt about her.

I'm really warming up to Kotooka's character after that awful 1st impression she gave to me, so i really hope that when she said "Or am i going to do the same thing over again?" she isn't planning in becoming that awful character from the beginning again.

I thought that what kootoka's said about "or am I going to do the same thing over again?" is that she might did the same things again to pair up Tsukasa with guy, and pair up washio with the other guys... To make their friendship normally..

In my thought about the ending, well.. Might be their Love triangle / love circle willn't going to break on it's side, and maybe it will remain status quo, since three of them were the main character..

After reading chapter 19...

Oh god, is it starting? Is the triangle crumbling now that Kotooka has finally snapped?! I haven't read the other chapters, but I feel like Nadeshiko is well aware of where Kotooka's feelings lie. After this chapter, I think with all of the alone time Tsukasa has to spend, she might figure out that Kotooka knows about everyone else's secrets OR Tsukasa's going to end up realizing that Kotooka actually likes her.

last edited at Nov 23, 2016 1:42AM

What a fantastic chapter. I was losing hope in this manga but with this chapter, I feel fully invested in all the characters now!

After reading chapter 19...

Oh god, is it starting? Is the triangle crumbling now that Kotooka has finally snapped?! I haven't read the other chapters, but I feel like Nadeshiko is well aware of where Kotooka's feelings lie. After this chapter, I think with all of the alone time Tsukasa has to spend, she might figure out that Kotooka knows about everyone else's secrets OR Tsukasa's going to end up realizing that Kotooka actually likes her.

You can read japanese? Thats cool.

I saw images of chapter 19 and damn, it looks like things took a turn for the worst in the future. I tried to avoid /u/'s spoiler filled thread, but i couldn't help it since i saw that slap and got curious as to why she slapped Washio. It seems that a girl from another trio of friends is trying to get with one of Kotooka's exes so they go and ask her for his number or something, but she snaps at them since she was feeling jealous of the trio of girls who supported each other for the sake of their friend happiness. Washio told her that she went too far and somehow that granted a slap from Kotooka? I was very confused by that part, so i would like to know what exactly went down if you read it too

It also seems that Washio is now aware that she has been rejected by Kotooka, but refuses to let go of her feelings for her. Kotooka on the other hand, refuses to give into her feelings for Tsukasa, but she does things that contradict that, like when she tells the glasses kid that Tsukasa is already in love with someone else and basically tells glasses kid to back off of her

I still stand by my theory, that by the end of the series, Kotooka is going to be the one that gets Tsukasa and Washio together and all of the actions in future chapters have done nothing but convince me that this is where the story its going.

After reading chapter 19...

Oh god, is it starting? Is the triangle crumbling now that Kotooka has finally snapped?! I haven't read the other chapters, but I feel like Nadeshiko is well aware of where Kotooka's feelings lie. After this chapter, I think with all of the alone time Tsukasa has to spend, she might figure out that Kotooka knows about everyone else's secrets OR Tsukasa's going to end up realizing that Kotooka actually likes her.

You can read japanese? Thats cool.

I saw images of chapter 19 and damn, it looks like things took a turn for the worst in the future. I tried to avoid /u/'s spoiler filled thread, but i couldn't help it since i saw that slap and got curious as to why she slapped Washio. It seems that a girl from another trio of friends is trying to get with one of Kotooka's exes so they go and ask her for his number or something, but she snaps at them since she was feeling jealous of the trio of girls who supported each other for the sake of their friend happiness. Washio told her that she went too far and somehow that granted a slap from Kotooka? I was very confused by that part, so i would like to know what exactly went down if you read it too

It also seems that Washio is now aware that she has been rejected by Kotooka, but refuses to let go of her feelings for her. Kotooka on the other hand, refuses to give into her feelings for Tsukasa, but she does things that contradict that, like when she tells the glasses kid that Tsukasa is already in love with someone else and basically tells glasses kid to back off of her

I still stand by my theory, that by the end of the series, Kotooka is going to be the one that gets Tsukasa and Washio together and all of the actions in future chapters have done nothing but convince me that this is where the story its going.

Hey, nice Yuzuriha profile picture. ;) I haven't gotten around to playing Aki-hen yet (too lazy, but I know how it ends at least since I shamelessly skipped to the end, LOL). I'm still patiently waiting for Fuyu-hen to come out.

Anyway...

I was going to make this brief, but I ended up writing the summary of the whole chapter (minus the last couple pages).

You're spot on. The three girls grouped up and the one with the short hair (Ogawa) has feelings for one of Kotooka's ex-boyfriends (the Muu-tan guy from the early chapters that you hear about - I think the one that she broke up with when she found out that Washio and Tsukasa were making homemade chocolates behind her back). However, Muu-tan (real last name is Mutou) rejected Ogawa since he supposedly still loves his ex-girlfriend, which is Kotooka. So now Ogawa's like "Please come see Mutou-kun one last time" and Kotooka's friends both want her to do it since they see nothing wrong with it, but Kotooka strongly objects to it.

Kotooka gets pissed and is all like, "What, is it my fault? Am I in the wrong?!" and so the problem here is that Tsukasa and Washio are essentially trying to pressure her (albeit lightly) into meeting this guy when she really doesn't want to do it, saying that she can't help if he still has feelings for her and wants to talk to her. Kotooka starts to wonder to herself why she is there listening to Ogawa's request in the first place and gets a little jealous about Ogawa and her relationship with her two friends. Kotooka kind of snaps here as she twirls her hair and just says "Nah, I'm not going to meet up with Muu-tan. Never. I mean, it's gross. Isn't this borderline stalking? Does he need to see me that badly? Impossible. That's sooo gross~"

And then Kotooka goes on to belittle Ogawa, even going as far as saying that her doing all of this for Muu-tan is the reason why no guys (such as Muu-tan) would like someone like her. Tsukasa's like, "Kotooka, you've said way too mu-" as Ogawa bursts into tears. Ogawa's friend shoves Kotooka away, Washio catches her ever-so-valiantly (this is important) and the Ogawa crew takes their leave but not before calling Kotooka "the worst".

At this point, Washio suggests that Kotooka should go apologize to Ogawa for going way too far. Here's a super brief translation of what they said to each other, actually:

Washio: I think you should apologize to Ogawa.
Kotooka: What? Why should I?!
Washio: You made her cry, didn't you?
Kotooka: So what!? You want me to listen to what they said and meet up with Muu-tan?!
Washio: That's just between you two. You are free to do whatever you want with him. However, about Ogawa... You went too far, Kotooka.
Kotooka: You realize they called me all sorts of names, don't you?!
Washio: Ogawa never said anything to you. You should be blaming her friends for that.
Kotooka: I mean, those guys were annoying!! They made me sound like the bad guy!
Washio: Aren't you the bad guy right now? If you don't want to do it that badly, then I'll apologize on your behalf!
Kotooka (gritting teeth, thinking to herself): Why... Just a while ago (referring to Washio's ever-so-valiant catch), and at that time (referring to another time in the past where Washio protected her), and even back then... (ditto) ... Why are you trying to make me like you?!
Kotooka (to herself): At our sleepover recently, we had so much fun together! That kind of feeling (of friendship, I would assume) is all I want! Why don't you get it? Why don't you realize how I feel?!
Kotooka: Nadeshiko... You're so annoying.

And then Kotooka goes on this massive rant about how she hates Washio's "I'm always right" attitude, how Washio always tries to be cool and how Washio takes her for an idiot (like how Washio never really pays much attention when Kotooka used to talk about her boyfriends). Kotooka calls her annoying again, but Washio plays it cool and just tells her to calm down. This pisses off Kotooka even more as she asks why Washio never talks back/stands up for herself and Washio just says she doesn't wanna stoop down to Kotooka's level because she thinks it's stupid. Kotooka slaps her right after this.

Washio runs away crying, Tsukasa tries to tell Kotooka she went too far, which pisses Kotooka off again because she feels like she's being isolated by Tsukasa and Washio. Kotooka runs away crying and Tsukasa's like "W-what's gotten into them?"

At school, Tsukasa realizes their fight was serious business (jeez, she's slow) when she tries to bring them together, but Kotooka and Washio both leave. At this point, Tsukasa debates if she should run after Washio or Kotooka, and she ends up picking the latter because Tsukasa is puzzled at Kotooka's words (before Kotooka left, she referred to "those two people", but I don't know who she's talking about). They talk a bit, Kotooka insists she won't apologize to Washio, and when Tsukasa asks about what she said yesterday, Kotooka gets mad yet again and runs away from Tsukasa.

Kotooka pretends to be fine and runs off to some new group of friends for like, home ec, and Tsukasa is left wondering what to do.

last edited at Nov 23, 2016 3:29AM

So I WANT this to have a triad ending but I'm expecting an inconclusive non-end where the status quo reigns.

I think it would end the same way the trio from Kindred Spirits ended, with Tsukasa and Washio together and Kotooka as the person who help them be together. It's way too obvious that its going that route tbh. The hints about Washio's first love wearing a lame takoyaki shirt, hints about Tsukasa looking like a little boy in her younger days and her taste for food in her apparel and the part about Kotooka being the only one who understand the feelings of both of her friends.

No, in the later chapters (the raws),it was shown that the takoyaki kid was a real guy lol, and he was the one who made Nadeshiko wears pigtails now.

Hey, nice Yuzuriha profile picture. ;) I haven't gotten around to playing Aki-hen yet (too lazy, but I know how it ends at least since I shamelessly skipped to the end, LOL). I'm still patiently waiting for Fuyu-hen to come out.

She's my favorite character in the whole Flowers series, so i'm kinda ecstatic to finally play as her in the third game. I haven't played it either lol, i just found a bunch of images of her from the third one in some forum and couldn't help but to use one as my profile pic. I have only played the first 2 and i was barely able to play the second one with the help of a friend since my japanese sucks ass at the moment lol.

Anyway...

I was going to make this brief, but I ended up writing the summary of the whole chapter (minus the last couple pages).

• Chapter 19 summary

Damn, thanks a lot for going into such detail, i feel like i already read the chapter by just reading your summary. I really appreciate it.

Anyways, it seems that my suspitions were true. Kotooka goes back to her awful self in future chapters, which is a shame since i was warming up to her right now. It's also a shame that in 19 chapters, there hasn't been any kind of tease of what the end game is going to be.

BTW, Is it true that she tells glasses kid that Tsukasa already has someone she likes? If so, why the hell does she does it? Was she getting jealous of him? Was she inadvertently helping her out with Washio? Why am i asking so many questions?

No, in the later chapters (the raws),it was shown that the takoyaki kid was a real guy lol, and he was the one who made Nadeshiko wears pigtails now.

Thats lame, why the hell hint at Tsukasa's tomboyish looks as a kid and awful food apparel if it leads to absolutely nothing?