Maybe Americans hug random strangers, or their friends, all the time, but it's not the case in every culture. For some people, including me, it's an invasion of personal space and it's uncomfortable to be touched.

I don't hug my friends, even if I trust them. I may lightly kiss them on the cheek though.

Don't go on assuming everyone needs hugs for a "better world". Your world is not my world.

It is so sad hearing not everyone likes to be hugged.

It is so sad hearing not everyone likes to be hugged.

What you said. :-(

So we had the "trends in behavior amongst children who've been subject to domestic violence" in chapter 2 and missing hymen now. This is more than foreshadowing

Most women have the majority of their hymenal tissue worn away by adolescence.

Wait, really? Is that true? But it's flesh, won't it renew itself?

It's actually a membrane rather than muscle. It doesn't regenerate, and some girls don't have one in the first place.

Fun fact: hymen are membranes like nez said, but more often than not it's just a membrane that is narrower than the rest of the vagina. Besides that there are a few other different sorts of hymen, and there are even cases where the hymen completely closes off the entrace and must be removed surgically once the girls starts menstruating. And hymens don't break. They can stretch, but is often suddenly overstreched which can result in tearing, and a bit of bleeding.
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Maybe Americans hug random strangers, or their friends, all the time, but it's not the case in every culture. For some people, including me, it's an invasion of personal space and it's uncomfortable to be touched.

I don't hug my friends, even if I trust them. I may lightly kiss them on the cheek though.

Don't go on assuming everyone needs hugs for a "better world". Your world is not my world.

My male American friends hug each other occasionally... I have a problem with the way they hug each other though since it seems like they're making a joke out of being gay when they're not (well, it's possible they are, but they say they're straight in any case), especially taking the kind of things they say while hugging each other into consideration... My female friends hug each other from time to time as well and it seems like it's more serious in that case... I mean, to them, I think it's a way to show (platonic) affection. I like to see same-sex hugging and all, but my joy at seeing anything remotely gay in real life is kind of stifled by the fact that they're obviously not being serious about it... Of course, we're all Asian, so, I don't know, maybe white Americans act differently... we certainly don't kiss each other like all the manga say we do (that always annoys me a bit since I've never seen anyone outright kiss a friend) or hug/kiss random strangers though.

Minutoh posted:

Maybe Americans hug random strangers, or their friends, all the time, but it's not the case in every culture. For some people, including me, it's an invasion of personal space and it's uncomfortable to be touched.

I don't hug my friends, even if I trust them. I may lightly kiss them on the cheek though.

Don't go on assuming everyone needs hugs for a "better world". Your world is not my world.

My male American friends hug each other occasionally... I have a problem with the way they hug each other though since it seems like they're making a joke out of being gay when they're not (well, it's possible they are, but they say they're straight in any case), especially taking the kind of things they say while hugging each other into consideration... My female friends hug each other from time to time as well and it seems like it's more serious in that case... I mean, to them, I think it's a way to show (platonic) affection. I like to see same-sex hugging and all, but my joy at seeing anything remotely gay in real life is kind of stifled by the fact that they're obviously not being serious about it... Of course, we're all Asian, so, I don't know, maybe white Americans act differently... we certainly don't kiss each other like all the manga say we do (that always annoys me a bit since I've never seen anyone outright kiss a friend) or hug/kiss random strangers though.

I'm French and we don't hug. It's a culture thing.

http://french.about.com/od/culture/a/hugging-in-france.htm

Being hugged makes me uncomfortable.

I think most Japanese would be uncomfortable about being hugged too. They are even more reserved than French people.

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 3:18AM

Japanese culture has very stringent mores and taboos regarding displays of affection or intimacy in public. It's not that Japanese people are unfeeling, their society simply conditions them to reserve those things for private, personal contexts. Notice that one of the first things the prostitute tries to do is establish a sense of privacy in their meeting, which in theory should allow her client to relax, open up, and * ahem * get down to business.

But this is Nagata.

A prominent source of emotional intimacy is with immediate family, particularly parents. Nagata's relationship with her mother is distant at best. She's never been in an intimate romantic or sexual relationship, either. So no point of reference for her there, either. Nagata not only doesn't know how to open up her heart to others. When someone gets close to her - physically or emotionally - she has no idea what to do with any part of herself.

This is one of the reasons administering a blanket application love and attention doesn't magically "fix" a depressed or socially anxious person all by itself. They're either unable or even never knew how to accept or process those things; that ability is - to a certain degree - learned. That probably sounds crazy to a lot of people, but that's because most people were taught subtly and subconsciously by their family, friends, and society in general. Others, like Nagata, were missing one or more of those sources during their social and psychological development and... well... this manga does a pretty good job of illustrating the result.

Even if a person has learned how to process and express love and intimacy, their ability to apply that knowledge can be disrupted or even lost via psychological trauma.

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 4:05AM

The prostitute was very kind to her. Leaving aside the fact that a) it's her job, and b) lesbian prostitutes probably have lots of experience and/or training with handling anxious first-timers, she definitely did her best to make it a pleasant and positive experience beyond just the sexual side of the encounter. It may have been a hopeless effort at the time, but Nagata clearly has feelings of gratitude toward her in retrospect, so that's something. We haven't yet heard her full thoughts on the interlude as a whole, but even from this chapter I'd say she realized some important things about herself from it.

Thank you very much, Tetsu.

So the recent discussion about hugs has made me research the physiological benefits of hugging, and most of the studies I found (e.g. this and this) link them to the production of oxytocin, which has normalizing effects on blood pressure and heart rate. A newer study found a correlation between hugging and stronger immune system response to certain infections, but the mechanism is not clear yet.

Perhaps more relevantly to the topic, another series of studies showed that supportive touch in general (not specifically hugging, so this is just as an addendum) helped people with low self-esteem avoid automatic negative thoughts.

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 10:52AM

Koveras posted:

So the recent discussion about hugs has made me research the physiological benefits of hugging

Mothers from any country touch and hug their children all the time. Lovers do too.

I wasn't arguing against any kind of hug or touch. If Americans want to smother each other with hugs and feel better for it, more power to them.

Just against people who want to hug the MC of this manga as if it will help her and make her feel loved.

I understand it's out of empathy, but as I imagine some people going there, meeting her and just going "I read your story, you poor thing, lemme give you a hug...", I can't help but shiver at the thought of her distress. Not only is she Japanese, but also incredibly socially awkward.

That would be a disaster.

You may note, however, that hugging was step 3 on my list. There were two more there, listed in a very specific order. :-)

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 12:27PM

Here in Venezuela we hug and kiss (in the cheek) all the time, men would hug each others when they have been apart for weeks but without the kiss, and when it comes to woman there's a kiss a hug even in cases when you've met them a day before and they will be like "AAAAHHH OMG IT'S YOU!!" but I don't like hugs, not between friends or my family... There has been many cases where a girl would lean towards me expecting a kiss and I avoid that, it's very awkward, I just raise my hand and say "hi!" or I just do it to avoid problems.

I've been there, where your chest hurts and you feel worthless.... But my advice would be trying to send your words alone to her like "Hello, I'm from XXXX Thanks so much for sharing your great manga!" because I feel really great when people say nice things to my work (and I would doubt of kind words to me as person and treat them as pity) and ask for more... I don't need a hug from my followers that's for sure lol, and as we've seen already in the manga more than once... When she receives words of encouragement and praise, those help a lot.

In Portugal it's a cultural thing to greet others (mostly family members and females) with two kisses on the cheeks (one on each cheek), I abominate this ever since I was born. I love getting hugged by a reserved circle of people, but I hate that, culturally, we are made to greet others with two kisses. Most men don't have to kiss other men (family/friends) when they meet them, so why would we (girls) have to? Sure, I have the option not to greet anyone that way, but it's extremely frowned upon, just like a Muslim woman not wearing something covering her head.

Also, you should really stop making it seem like Americans are somehow ALL into getting smothered with hugs. Just because it's not a weird thing to display affection in public in the USA it doesn't mean everyone likes to be filled with hugs out of nowhere the entire time.

Also, you should really stop making it seem like Americans are somehow ALL into getting smothered with hugs. Just because it's not a weird thing to display affection in public in the USA it doesn't mean everyone likes to be filled with hugs out of nowhere the entire time.

In my research earlier, I encountered several sources claiming that US is, on average, actually one of the more touch-averse nations out there, but I didn't found any reputable surveys to back that up, so I didn't link any here.

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 3:52PM

Also, you should really stop making it seem like Americans are somehow ALL into getting smothered with hugs. Just because it's not a weird thing to display affection in public in the USA it doesn't mean everyone likes to be filled with hugs out of nowhere the entire time.

In my research earlier, I encountered several sources claiming that US is, on average, actually one of the more touch-averse nations out there, but I didn't found any reputable surveys to back that up, so I didn't link any here.

It depends a lot on what part of America, or Canada too for that matter. Being so big and covering such widely separated regions, with different colonial cultures influencing each, it's pretty hard to make an across the board statement about something like willingness to be touched. Like despite all being French-based, you might have considerably different experiences in Louisiana, Québec and the Bras d'Or Lakes.

In Poland, at least from my experience, it is normal for girls being touchy-feely with each other while it would be awkward between guys (most likely cos too gay). But when I attended a few anime conventions event, something that I really liked, was the idea that as long as you don't mind, everyone hugging everyone was common place. You could find people walking with sign "Free hugs". It really made you feel like part of open community. So to me hugging is basically like the universal way of showing closeness that you can share with even strangers in order to connect. Like if you don't know what to do, hugging is way to go and you can't never go wrong with it. Hugs are like purest way to express concern. It really breaks my heart it isn't that way for everyone.

FWIW, when I belonged to the Society For Creative Anachronism waaaaaaaay back, the locals were very much into hugs, regardless of gender. They were also very good about it if someone didn't like hugs, which was nice. It was a really warm group.

In my family, everyone hugs constantly, like several times throughout the day. I no longer initiate hugs with non-family members after bad experiences where I hugged people who weren't comfortable with it. Just thinking of wanting to hug people makes me feel guilty now.

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 9:08PM

It depends a lot on what part of America, or Canada too for that matter. Being so big and covering such widely separated regions, with different colonial cultures influencing each, it's pretty hard to make an across the board statement about something like willingness to be touched. Like despite all being French-based, you might have considerably different experiences in Louisiana, Québec and the Bras d'Or Lakes.

We very much hug here. Ofc, some people don't like hugs, so well, don't hug them.
I noticed once, this Chinese immigrant girl who was really awks about hugs. Like some ppl are like that, so I didn't give it much thought until now. I think it's a cultural thing. I just asked my mom, and she said that Chinese and Taiwanese ppl don't hug, and added that hugging is weird. I'm thinking about this, cus I know like, Chinese ppl who have immigrated here at a young age who are huggers. Hmm, I also know Chinese immigrants who have come here later than the latter, and altho they don't go out of their way to hug, they are okay accepting them, so I guess ppl can get used to it, even if it's a culturally weird thing to them

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 9:35PM

My family is Filipino, and we do a lot of hugging. This is somewhat paradoxical, as I'm very anxious in social situations. I never initiate a hug with anyone outside of my family, and even when I do it's mostly out of an unspoken social obligation. But at the same time I'm comfortable with and usually enjoy being hugged by almost anyone I have a neutral or positive disposition towards, regardless of their level of familiarity.

I live on the east coast of the US in a fairly multi-cultural area, so the social acceptability and "rules of engagement" regarding hugging varies a lot depending on where exactly you are and whose company you're in.

last edited at Oct 16, 2016 11:12PM

I admire those who can be physically affectionate but I don't care to take part in it at all.

Really good chapter. Looking forward to seeing where our lead character goes from here.

I just read elsewhere... We only have one chapter left!?

I'm not ready to Let It Go!

There was that diary thing by Nagata Kabi someone mentioned in this thread earlier... What is it, exactly?

Koveras posted:

There was that diary thing by Nagata Kabi someone mentioned in this thread earlier... What is it, exactly?

it's something of an ongoing continuation of this book, quite literally diary entries about stuff in her life in manga form.

here: https://comic.pixiv.net/works/2308

Her life story is depressing but I think this segment of it is non-depressing. She did what she decided to do. It seems her life was almost entirely on hold once she left high school.