This was an uncomfortable read made even more uncomfortable by the people denying the racist undertones. Why should it matter if the author didn't have racist intentions when it still plays into the trope of making the sole brown woman swole? And note that, compared to the other girls, she was already relatively masculine before even deciding to get into bodybuilding.

This is sexist to say that a character wearing a t-shirt and having short hair is more masculine. This is a perfectly fine style, and neither short hair nor casual clothing is "relatively masculine". Women don't need to have long hair or wear traditionally feminine clothes to be considered feminine and i also think there is a difference between having a masculine personality, a masculine appearance and simply having a different fashion sense.

The 'west' isn't the only place where lighter skin
is seen as more desirable and feminine, so of course there's also a tendency to portray brown women in ways that are culturally masculine in many asian countries and their respective works. I refuse to believe none of you have ever seen those videos of brown asian women "removing" their melanin with skin lightening soap.

This is true, and this was true even when Japan was cut out from the rest of the world and when the vast majority of people weren't even aware of the existence of darker skin color. This is a class issue, not necessarily a racial one (in the case of Japan). Tan skin was associated with outside work, and outside work was associated with lower class people. And I agree that this is a harmful stereotype. Especially when you can see the length some girls go to not get tan in the slightest (wearing long sleeves in summer, when it's 38 degrees).

That being said, I don't think we should necessarily treat classism and colorism as mutually exclusive. A beauty standard can have originated from class differences and still develop into colorism. But I also don't think that every instance of a darker skinned woman being muscular is automatically an example of that stereotype being reinforced.

Are we going to say racist or otherwise bigoted caricatures stop being racist just because the person behind them didn't know? People aren't attacking the author by pointing this out (why would be pointing out something possibly harmful an attack...?), and they clearly explained why this trope it's a form of racism. It's just recognizing a social trend that nobody is immune to and pointing it out.

I'll be honest, I don't understand the issue here. So the problem is that it's considered less attractive to be more masculine (that's an harmful stereotype as well btw...), and that muscular people are often represented as darker skinned, right?

But in this case, being more muscular is portrayed as being attractive, and the character is not the more assertive one. The character is cute, sexy and portrayed in a positive way. Isn't that also a way of challenging the stereotype that muscular women, or darker skinned women, are less feminine and less attractive?

I understand that positive representation doesn't automatically mean that this is not a harmful stereotype. A character can be positively portrayed and still reinforce certain associations. But I think there needs to be more than just the existence of a historical association to establish that this particular portrayal is problematic.

Otherwise, in a way, we also creating another restrictive expectation for brown/black women. That they need to be portrayed as traditionally feminine, or else their appearance is reinforcing a racist stereotype.

If anything, the girlfriend can even be perceived as more masculine because of her assertiveness... Which is why I don't think we should be conflating physical appearance, personality and femininity like they're all the same thing.

Holy fucking shit.

That wasn't really necessary...

EDIT: I wrote this back when we were on forum page 3 in direct respons to girlswhokiss and then walked my dogs. I haven't catched up on anything since

I'm not from the USA and you shouldn't assume everyone speaking in english is from there, or any other anglophone country.

I never did that though? It's mostly about the (apparently now deleted, but still quoted by swapbats) comment which, for some reason, had to point out that Miyuki isn't "white", which displayed an ethnic understanding of "white" as racial term rather than skin colour that more or less only comes from North America.

it doesn't make sense to say people who are mixed or visibly from a different ethnicity aren't going to be stereotyped and discriminated

Thank goodness everybody in this thread has been reasonable so far and not said that?

This isn't even the first time this author has designed a character like this, they have another work about a 40 years old woman who meets another woman (29 years old) in an online game where they start to date, and her character is a buff brown woman while the other's is another small light skinned woman, so this is something that sticks out in an unpleasant way even if there was no ill intent.

Checking that manga I'm kind of eh on that one. Like, it's a non-human fantasy character (possibly an Oni, who are historically drawn with skin in many colours which we just can't tell in B&W). Even if we assume it to be ethnically-coded there's still the massive baggage of how modern fantasy races are derived to unravel which may or may not absolve sono. (That's is a very interesting discussion by the way, but I have to admit to not know enough about that, especially when it comes to the japanese adaption of many western fantasy tropes.)

Since you, girlswhokiss are together with arka the only ones to explicitly state to have found this work racist (in contrast to having a more general discussion about the undeniable colorist stereotyping), I just want you to point them out: What in particular is wrong about having a physically strong and tall women be dark-skinned? Especially since sono's aforementioned track record of drawing way more light-skinned buff girls? Just because a certain combination of traits can be (and frequently is) used with racist connotations mustn't mean it necessarily is racist. (Just imagine banning crime thrillers from having dark-skinned suspects and culprits.)

Being attentive to societal issues is a good thing, but please please please uphold the presumption of innocence. There's thousand of black-man-steals-your-wife NTR hentai out there more deserving of being brigaded.

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 3:19PM

Good Lord, dynasty comments going absolutely batshit again I see.

Can't even draw a tan buff lady without a mob showing up and somehow taking offense and making it about imagined racism.
Pro tip: if you're looking for something, you will find it whether it's there or not.

You believe in misandry

Holy shit lmao

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 3:47PM

Wholesome AF my heart is so hard from reading and laughing! Thanks for translating!

That cover made me go "Robin and Nami!?", also very nice thanks for the translation!

LMAO same

Why does it feel like everytime a series makes a actual female body builder character they make her 8 feet tall?

Looking through the comments some and how they trying play race. Then here I am just looking at it as the standard bronze tanning and chemical tans many competitive bodybuilders do to show their lines better..

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 5:16PM

Good Lord, dynasty comments going absolutely batshit again I see.

Can't even draw a tan buff lady without a mob showing up and somehow taking offense and making it about imagined racism.
Pro tip: if you're looking for something, you will find it whether it's there or not.

You believe in misandry, not in a position to imply the people elaborating on an aspect of this work that they didn't like are insane. Not engaging anymore.

I didn't call you insane I said you're being offended by imaginary racism because you're so obsessed with finding it that you see it where there is none.
That being said...

Claims not to be insane -> Claims that misandry doesn't exist and that belief that misandry exists is somehow basis for being mentally unsound.

I don't even think I need to point out the crazy there, you're doing a great job yourself.
Don't think misandry is a prevalent issue? Sure.
Don't think misandry exists at all? Your favorite drink might be cool-aid.

This forum really needs a report feature, people like you are why we can't have nice things.

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 5:26PM

Looking through the comments some and how they trying play race. Then here I am just looking at it as the standard bronze tanning and chemical tans many competitive bodybuilders do to show their lines better.

No, she's darker skinned when she's younger and slim. She only bulks up because she overhears her crush saying bulkier women are hot. Before then there's nothing suggesting she was into bodybuilding and her size was the same as everyone else. She just seems like a sweet innocent girl with a crush and is just as sweet and cute when she's larger.

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 6:14PM

Misandry isn't real.

i'm probably swinging a bat at a hornet's nest here, but uh. japanese people tan pretty easily in the sun and there's a wide range of skintone there because of that. that's why you get the sporty -> tan trope. it has literally nothing to do with race here. they're all the same race! the points you're all making are very applicable to people of minority races in light skinned countries, and if this character was eg black it would apply. but she isn't.

anyway my take is that the muscles are so absurd in scale that it makes the work feel cartoonish. feels like reading jojo or something lmao

I came here to say how cute and wholesome this felt, but the comments section totally ruined it.

When I see a dark skin character, I don't think it's racism. I just think that they are probably athletic and do a lot of outdoor sport.

I came here to say how cute and wholesome this felt, but the comments section totally ruined it.

When I see a dark skin character, I don't think it's racism. I just think that they are probably athletic and do a lot of outdoor sport.

Not getting into all the other arguing that's going on but I'd agree she's meant to be a Japanese person who tans naturally, probably through athletics (they mention she was always active). Yes, very cute. The other series someone linked from them is also super sweet. Posting again because I don't know if people realize it was being translated "A Star's Warmth, A Returning Dream". I don't think this series warrants these kinds of discussions but they're here anyway.

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 7:32PM

...well, I thought it was cute
guess this one goes in the problematic faves list

One time our class is taking group picture at somewhere rather dark. I half jokingly said "you're so dark, will you show up the in picture?" to our lecturer, can't remember his race, I think he's Indian.

And a classmate say I'm racist. Which puzzled me at that time. It wasn't until years later I realised people think this is racist.

Imagine if it's a baby that make a "racist" comment, do we think it's racist?

I know we're coming at good heart when we said other is racism and then should stop doing so. But at the same time, sometimes I also wonder between that makes racist common (especially unintentionally) vs the one think it's racism, who is the one promoted racism more.

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 7:37PM

One time our class is taking group picture at somewhere rather dark. I half jokingly said "you're so dark, will you show up the in picture?" to our lecturer, can't remember his race, I think he's Indian.

And a classmate say I'm racist. Which puzzled me at that time. It wasn't until years later I realised people think this is racist.

Imagine if it's a baby that make a "racist" comment, do we think it's racist?

I know we're coming at good heart when we said other is racism and then should stop doing so. But at the same time, sometimes I also wonder between that makes racist common (especially unintentionally) vs the one think it's racism, who is more racist.

That comment would definitely be insensitive at the very least. Not sure what you're talking about with the baby stuff but this is all going way off the topic of the chapter.

last edited at Nov 7, 2026 7:34PM

Holy shit, Superman could never.

a hip abduction machine?

It's a . . . machine that kidnaps your hip?

goals

One time our class is taking group picture at somewhere rather dark. I half jokingly said "you're so dark, will you show up the in picture?" to our lecturer, can't remember his race, I think he's Indian.

And a classmate say I'm racist. Which puzzled me at that time. It wasn't until years later I realised people think this is racist.

Imagine if it's a baby that make a "racist" comment, do we think it's racist?

I know we're coming at good heart when we said other is racism and then should stop doing so. But at the same time, sometimes I also wonder between that makes racist common (especially unintentionally) vs the one think it's racism, who is more racist.

That comment would definitely be insensitive at the very least. Not sure what you're talking about with the baby stuff but this is all going way off the topic of the chapter.

How is it insensitive? Someone's skin is a colour that makes them difficult to make out from a dark background and that is mildly amusing. What exactly is "insensitive" about that? Acknowledging that they have dark skin? What's wrong with dark skin? Do you think having dark skin is like having a massive scar across your face and you're not allowed to acknowledge it without their consent?

This is exactly what I meant earlier when I said people projecting their racism sensitivity onto non-racist things are problematic. They are creating problems where none exist because they're so sensitive to the possibility of a problem that they pre-emptively aggressively attack people as if they've been caught actually committing some crime when all they did was act like a person would if they're not racist.

All you're accomplishing is making people angry and worried, most likely pushing them further towards an extreme opinion in one direction or the other.

(See the absolute nutjobs like girlswhokiss above, who honest-to-god doesn't accept that "misogyny" has a reversed equivalent concept.)

Yeah, I'm personally holding every single yuri author at gunpoint so they write things the way I want. Sono is trapped in my room right now for writing an one-shot that had a detail that bothered me a little. Be serious lmao, if you really think what I'm saying is against the rules, you're more than free to post about it on the FAQ, Help, & Suggestions thread and the mods will discipline me accordingly! But you're not the only person with the right to discuss things here, and you don't get to dehumanize me by calling me a "mob" and yes, calling me insane for seeing things that supposedly aren't there.

Consider your life experiences aren't the only ones and you don't know shit about systemic oppression.

Nice made-up hyperbole of what I said, try connecting with reality for a second.
I want the ability to report you because your posts are outrageously inflammatory and hateful to the point of delusion, aggressively attacking people with accusations of "racism" for something as ridiculously innocent as "submissive partner is dark skinned, that is racist because it implies black people are submissive."

last edited at Nov 8, 2026 2:04AM

(because I wished to get enough strength to surprise princess-carry my then-fiancee the big day - I double dog-dare you all to find a better reason for doing strength building)

Can't do, because you're 100% correct.

How is it insensitive? Someone's skin is a colour that makes them difficult to make out from a dark background and that is mildly amusing. What exactly is "insensitive" about that? Acknowledging that they have dark skin? What's wrong with dark skin? Do you think having dark skin is like having a massive scar across your face and you're not allowed to acknowledge it without their consent?

I'm not going to get into all that but as a black person myself, I'm just letting you know. That specific joke is known as an insensitive one because it is often used by people deliberately to be offensive, not as a general observation. It's not always a problem and with friends it doesn't matter but with strangers it could be an issue. There's not a kid from where I grew up (multicultural community) who wouldn't know that whether they're black or not. Even if you meant it innocently, it shouldn't be difficult to understand what someone else's experiences might be with jokes like that. You were initially upset because someone called you racist but I guess "that joke was insensitive" also annoys you too. Not really engaging the rest of your comment because that seems like a rabbit hole and like you're getting ideas off your chest more than anything.

last edited at Nov 8, 2026 9:44AM

The discussion in this thread is beyond the forums scope, if you want to keep discussing it, please do so privately

Specifically BoobTwinkler and girlswhokiss, your comments are causing a lot of this in the first place, so stop.

a hip abduction machine?

It's a . . . machine that kidnaps your hip?

"Abduction" in this case is a motion that moves a limb directly away from your body's core. The opposite motion is called "adduction."

Yes, this does mean that when you do jumping jacks you end up abducting all of your own limbs.

Yes, it's a bit weird that the buff darker character is tall and buff, but it's not portrayed in a negative way nor does it make momoko "the man". Of all things to discuss this is an issue that does not need to be battled in this instance, there are worse cases to tackle, it can be brought up of course but seriously there are taller hills to die on folks.

Amazing stuff