I think l have to make it clear.
Tbh, I don't even care a bit if it turns out Erika being a villain ( l don't think she is as of now). Nor do l have interest in painting her as one.
I like analyzing character's intention behind their actions. Why they are doing this？What goal do they try to achieve？
It's an enjoyment when the story is written in a realistic style (except time traveling and the cause of it. That's the part l don't want to discuss).

You can disagree with me and express your own opinions, which might convince me (or not). I don't get the point of accusing someone hating certain character while they did explain why they are viewing things this way.

It's like this: if you and I both read a scene of Erika thinking "I'm such a piece of shit" and I go "poor Erika, she has such a poor self image, because she's obviously a good person based on her actions" and you go "that piece of shit Erika has an accurate self image, so all her actions probably have secret bad intentions," we're both making choices, informed by the context of the story and our personalities and experiences. And in such a situation where people have essentially opposite readings of the same text, is it not understandable that people might wonder why you read Erika unsympathetically compared to those who read her sympathetically?

I don't think I've seen anything concrete in the story or discussion that points to Erika deserving to be seen in such a negative light except her own thoughts where she feels guilty for hoping for a happiness that would come at the expense of her friend. And I'd point to that guilt as itself evidence of her being good: she doesn't embrace that desire, she's repeatedly shown resisting it and feeling terrible for even having the passing thought. And I think having a selfish thought and feeling bad about it and not acting on it is a pretty normal relatable thing, personally.

Fwiw it does seem plausibsinglele to me that Aya would've gone back to Koto quickly without Erika's intervention. We can see from this chapter she doesn't even really view Koto's actions as abusive. And she still depends on Koto for housing and other expenses; she can't stay with Erika forever.

If Erika refused to help her then that's plausible for what would have happened simply out of a need for a place to sleep, although I could see Aya stubbornly refusing and instead using her part time job money to sleep in a manga cafe or something. Most people, even 14 year olds, don't respond well to someone demanding they give up all their aspirations and let themselves be locked away from the world.

It's like this: if you and I both read a scene of Erika thinking "I'm such a piece of shit" and I go "poor Erika, she has such a poor self image, because she's obviously a good person based on her actions" and you go "that piece of shit Erika has an accurate self image, so all her actions probably have secret bad intentions," we're both making choices, informed by the context of the story and our personalities and experiences.

You literally made me spill my drink because I can't stop laughing when reading your text.

"that piece of shit Erika has an accurate self image, so all her actions probably have secret bad intentions,"
That's not true. I never consider Erika a bad person. And having bad intention doesn't mean she's one. Same goes for Koto.

"As the one who's not being loved, Erika always compromises her own principles when things related to Koto."
I actually believe Erika has a high moral standard. However, this standard can be changed when things related to Koto. She does sincerely see Aya as a friend but has to use her like a tool to make Koto change. That's the reason she has self-loathing when Aya said "you're really a great friend". Because she knows she isn't in her own standard.

And in such a situation where people have essentially opposite readings of the same text, is it not understandable that people might wonder why you read Erika unsympathetically compared to those who read her sympathetically?

I won't deny l can't sympathize with her compared to Koto due to my own life experience. But l don't think l am being especially harsh on Erika. You can even see my previous post to get the same conclusion that l hate Koto, which is really far away from the truth.

I don't think I've seen anything concrete in the story or discussion that points to Erika deserving to be seen in such a negative light except her own thoughts where she feels guilty for hoping for a happiness that would come at the expense of her friend. And I'd point to that guilt as itself evidence of her being good: she doesn't embrace that desire, she's repeatedly shown resisting it and feeling terrible for even having the passing thought. And I think having a selfish thought and feeling bad about it and not acting on it is a pretty normal relatable thing, personally.

I have to disagree here. From my point of view, I think Erika did ACT on it. Several times.

Chapter 1：
"There's no need for us to be in love yet, right？"
The last, hopeless act trying to stop Koto to confess again.

Chapter 3：
"If your feelings died down and you move on…You have to make it clear to her, don't you think？"
You can't sense anything wrong in this way of speaking？

Chapter 13：
Throwing her laundry basket hard on the sofa with Aya sitting very next to it.

One thing to be clear. Erika hasn't done anything l would see her as a villain yet. Her action is quite realistic as the one who is hopelessly in unrequited love with someone.

That's not true. I never consider Erika a bad person. And having bad intention doesn't mean she's one. Same goes for Koto.

One thing to be clear. Erika hasn't done anything l would see her as a villain yet. Her action is quite realistic as the one who is hopelessly in unrequited love with someone.

First thought I have when seeing your name is "oh look it's that poster who thinks Erika killed their firstborn".
Sorry I've just been skimming your posts for a few chapters now because I wrote them off as little more than unfiltered hatred for Erika.

Or perhaps I'm confusing you with another poster that doesn't have a profile pic?

If others have similar thoughts about your posts, you may want to consider condensing your posts a bit so they're not as easy to misinterpret and/or adding a profile pic that makes you easier to identify.

Or it's just laziness and poor reading comprehension on my part.

First thought I have when seeing your name is "oh look it's that poster who thinks Erika killed their firstborn".
Sorry I've just been skimming your posts for a few chapters now because I wrote them off as little more than unfiltered hatred for Erika.

It's not like l care. You can go ahead.

Or perhaps I'm confusing you with another poster that doesn't have a profile pic?

If others have similar thoughts about your posts, you may want to consider condensing your posts a bit so they're not as easy to misinterpret and/or adding a profile pic that makes you easier to identify.

You know there's a reason l don't even want to talk to you？You are so condescending.
Don't bother to quote me again, l won't reply.

Or it's just laziness and poor reading comprehension on my part.

Not my problem lol.

Ah that was a good talk :)

Just some pages where how they act may be relevant. I'm writing this down for easier access once there are more chapters and I want to revisit those scenes.

Erika:
School girl usual romance talk, pages 12-13
Tanabata day memories conversation, pages 27-30
Her opinion on how Koto should act about being reunited with Aya, pages 08-11
It's not clear what she means by fair in this, pages 30-31
Self-deprecation? Page 07
Briefly mentions how Koto "has changed", pages 17-18
Calling herself awful, pages 24-25
"What do you think? Aya.", pages 17-18
Recognizing herself as Aya's stand-in, pages 25-28
In the same chapter, pages 29-30, tanabata is brought up again and her wish is shown.
Still within chapter 8, "I consider myself an awful jerk" pages 35-36
Flashback from briefly after Aya's disappearance, makes a question Koto seems a bit confused about, page 11
"I'm not... Anyone's great friend.", pages 20-24
Her animosity towards Aya becomes more noticeable and so does the fact that she's hiding something, pages 09-13, Aya briefly recalls something and Erika's muttering seemed to be directed at herself.
Later, "meaningfully" smiles towards Aya, page 22

Koto:
Second confession, already showing her desire to be the center of Aya's attention, pages 28-31
"I just knew she would respond that way" script and stage, which could mean nothing, pages 32-36
Anxious over Aya's sleeping figure, pages 24-29
Anxious over Aya seeking for a job, pages 31-33
Watching Aya leave for work, page 32
Her wish for Aya to quit leaks a bit, pages 07-12
and in the same chapter, gets somewhat more intense, pages 19-25, as Aya talks about how she wants to keep moving forward
gets more anxious when Aya starts to focus on achieving her goals, pages 35-36
"I would never let go of Aya-chan", pages 31-36
Loses her cool, pages 01-05
and then feels betrayed pages 17-18
Lastly, the part where her emotions leak and she tries to control Aya's actions, pages 25-36 and makes it clear that she is a child and that she is scared of Aya disappearing again.

Aya:
The "If not here, where is it?" scene, pages 18-25, Koto feels as if she's being messed with.
still during the first chapter, she's found looking somewhere far away, pages 28-30
Can't recall what happened and feels insecure about how the current Koto feels about her, pages 27-34
Her reaction to her grandfather's death, pages 01-02
Her reaction when Koto first confessed, pages 01-02
During their date, reminisces on how her feelings for Koto changed since her first confession, pages 10-15 and is now more aware of how she is attracted to her.
Still within the same chapter, her fear of being abandoned becomes apparent, 18-28, at this point she's still very naive and unaware of her partner's mental state or what it means to have disappeared for 7 years.
Becomes lost in thought again, looking somewhere far away. pages 05-07
This entire part where she isn't certain of her standing with the other two, pages 19-36
Feeling bad again for being the only one left behind and a child, pages 23-35
Anxious over a possible break up, pages 02-05
Feeling anxious over Koto, pages 15-30, and getting very awkward after and "comfortable".
During Koto's emotional moment, pages 27-33 her being a child and her disappearance are the two things she seems to be the most sensitive about. In this I'd say her desire for not being "stuck" is made clear.
And she does want to be independent, pages 07-09
Starts to question how she feels towards the current Koto, pages 16-17
And finally starts to become aware of the gravity of her situation, pages 28-36

Just some pages where how they act may be relevant. I'm writing this down for easier access once there are more chapters and I want to revisit those scenes.

Erika:
School girl usual romance talk, pages 12-13
Tanabata day memories conversation, pages 27-30
Her opinion on how Koto should act about being reunited with Aya, pages 08-11
It's not clear what she means by fair in this, pages 30-31
Self-deprecation? Page 07
Briefly mentions how Koto "has changed", pages 17-18
Calling herself awful, pages 24-25
"What do you think? Aya.", pages 17-18
Recognizing herself as Aya's stand-in, pages 25-28
In the same chapter, pages 29-30, tanabata is brought up again and her wish is shown.
Still within chapter 8, "I consider myself an awful jerk" pages 35-36
Flashback from briefly after Aya's disappearance, makes a question Koto seems a bit confused about, page 11
"I'm not... Anyone's great friend.", pages 20-24
Her animosity towards Aya becomes more noticeable and so does the fact that she's hiding something, pages 09-13, Aya briefly recalls something and Erika's muttering seemed to be directed at herself.
Later, "meaningfully" smiles towards Aya, page 22

Koto:
Second confession, already showing her desire to be the center of Aya's attention, pages 28-31
"I just knew she would respond that way" script and stage, which could mean nothing, pages 32-36
Anxious over Aya's sleeping figure, pages 24-29
Anxious over Aya seeking for a job, pages 31-33
Watching Aya leave for work, page 32
Her wish for Aya to quit leaks a bit, pages 07-12
and in the same chapter, gets somewhat more intense, pages 19-25, as Aya talks about how she wants to keep moving forward
gets more anxious when Aya starts to focus on achieving her goals, pages 35-36
"I would never let go of Aya-chan", pages 31-36
Loses her cool, pages 01-05
and then feels betrayed pages 17-18
Lastly, the part where her emotions leak and she tries to control Aya's actions, pages 25-36 and makes it clear that she is a child and that she is scared of Aya disappearing again.

Aya:
The "If not here, where is it?" scene, pages 18-25, Koto feels as if she's being messed with.
still during the first chapter, she's found looking somewhere far away, pages 28-30
Can't recall what happened and feels insecure about how the current Koto feels about her, pages 27-34
Her reaction to her grandfather's death, pages 01-02
Her reaction when Koto first confessed, pages 01-02
During their date, reminisces on how her feelings for Koto changed since her first confession, pages 10-15 and is now more aware of how she is attracted to her.
Still within the same chapter, her fear of being abandoned becomes apparent, 18-28, at this point she's still very naive and unaware of her partner's mental state or what it means to have disappeared for 7 years.
Becomes lost in thought again, looking somewhere far away. pages 05-07
This entire part where she isn't certain of her standing with the other two, pages 19-36
Feeling bad again for being the only one left behind and a child, pages 23-35
Anxious over a possible break up, pages 02-05
Feeling anxious over Koto, pages 15-30, and getting very awkward after and "comfortable".
During Koto's emotional moment, pages 27-33 her being a child and her disappearance are the two things she seems to be the most sensitive about. In this I'd say her desire for not being "stuck" is made clear.
And she does want to be independent, pages 07-09
Starts to question how she feels towards the current Koto, pages 16-17
And finally starts to become aware of the gravity of her situation, pages 28-36

WOW!!! Thank you for sharing this. it's incredibly useful and helpful! :D

It's very interesting! Compared to them, Aya seems like a saint, but I wonder if she has her own crippling flaws we just haven't had a chance to see yet...

Well folks, did I call it or did I call it? Lol.

I really like this chapter. Despite Aya being more or less the main character we didn't actually know much about her, so it's great to finally get a chapter that focuses on her past and how it made her the way she is now. Moreover, I think the major theme of the story is finally coming into view: perhaps as should have been obvious, it's time, the inevitability of change, and the various maladaptive ways people have of reacting to that inevitability. Thinking about it, I feel like Koto kind of represents the "past," Aya the "present," and Erika the "future." Let me explain.

In a lot of ways, Koto and Aya are pretty similar. They both have abandonment trauma, and they both have a fear of change. But their ways of responding to that fear are very different. Koto, as we've seen, is still living in the past and wants to keep things the way she's remembered, which is what led to her abusive behavior toward Aya. However, Aya is...well...an actress. She's very skilled at adapting herself to whatever situation she finds herself in -- even being flung 7 years in the future at age 14 with very little support system, she's somehow managing to rebuild her life again. I think maybe this is precisely why she admired Koto so much. For Aya, everything is constantly in flux, including herself, so someone who (to her) was honest and sincere enough to always stay the same would naturally stand out to her.

Erika, by contrast, almost does the opposite of Aya; she is constantly rejecting her present reality and is looking toward a more hopeful future. Whether that be her continued competition with Aya over acting roles or her (I guess) decade+ hope of Koto someday returning her feelings, Erika is never satisfied with how things are, she's always looking forward to how she hopes things will be someday. But while Koto and Aya are limited by their fear of change (even as they react to that change very differently), Erika is limited by her fear of recognizing reality. She escapes into her dreams of the future to ignore and repress her grief over Aya's disappearance and apparent guilt over the part she seems to have played in it.

I really, really love this manga. At the rate it's going it might actually end up one of my favorite manga of all time.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 12:01PM

After reading chapter 14, l tend to believe the theory Erika is the cause of why Aya disappeared in the first place.
Aya definitely has no motivation to wish herself away. Her looking for "if not here, where is it？" was just an imagination of the place she truly belongs to.
Some of the readers had been misled by the way the author intentionally showed us. You had been tricked (just like Koto). Freedom is not that important in Aya's desire list.

She longs for something which would never change. She loves Koto because she believes she (Koto) is the last person in this world would have a change.

However, like l said before, Aya never gets to understand the real weight of that "love" she asked for. That's why l am glad she can start experiencing now. To figure it out if "this" is what she really wants.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 12:34PM

Aya definitely has no motivation to wish herself away. Her looking for "if not here, where is it？" was just an imagination of the place she truly belongs to.
Some of the readers had been misled by the way the author intentionally showed us. You had been tricked (just like Koto). Freedom is not that important in Aya's desire list.

I wouldn't be so sure. We also saw in this chapter that, after her grandmother died, her grandfather's mental capacities started declining rapidly. With her mother not in the picture, Aya was facing the prospect of soon having to become a full-time caretaker of a senile elder while still only being 14 herself. This is a situation almost anyone would want to escape from.

I wouldn't be so sure. We also saw in this chapter that, after her grandmother died, her grandfather's mental capacities started declining rapidly. With her mother not in the picture, Aya was facing the prospect of soon having to become a full-time caretaker of a senile elder while still only being 14 herself. This is a situation almost anyone would want to escape from.

Well, other people maybe. But this is Aya.
A ridiculous 14 yo who has an incredible strong heart. Since she never gives up on anything, nor does she ever even consider it, l will tend to believe that's not the case.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 1:04PM

I wouldn't be so sure. We also saw in this chapter that, after her grandmother died, her grandfather's mental capacities started declining rapidly. With her mother not in the picture, Aya was facing the prospect of soon having to become a full-time caretaker of a senile elder while still only being 14 herself. This is a situation almost anyone would want to escape from.

Well, other people maybe. But this is Aya.
A ridiculous 14 yo who has an incredible strong heart. Since she never gives up on anything, nor does she ever even consider it, l will tend to believe that's not the case.

In Chapter 3, Aya says that when she found out her grandfather was dead, "The first thing that came to my mind was that it was finally over."

I wouldn't be so sure. We also saw in this chapter that, after her grandmother died, her grandfather's mental capacities started declining rapidly. With her mother not in the picture, Aya was facing the prospect of soon having to become a full-time caretaker of a senile elder while still only being 14 herself. This is a situation almost anyone would want to escape from.

Well, other people maybe. But this is Aya.
A ridiculous 14 yo who has an incredible strong heart. Since she never gives up on anything, nor does she ever even consider it, l will tend to believe that's not the case.

In Chapter 3, Aya says that when she found out her grandfather was dead, "The first thing that came to my mind was that it was finally over."

Yeah, l remember that part of story.

(This is my way of understanding, you can disagree with me)
Aya's biggest fear is things will end up changing. She is so fed up with losing sb dear to her.
First, her friends, then her mom, now her grandma.

Her grandfather is dying in a slowest way. She knows she will lose him eventually. That's why she acted that complex way in chapter 3.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 1:33PM

Well, other people maybe. But this is Aya.
A ridiculous 14 yo who has an incredible strong heart. Since she never gives up on anything, nor does she ever even consider it, l will tend to believe that's not the case.

She did want to escape it though, considering her relief when she found out that he had died. If anything I'd say that for her the Koto that didn't change was some sort of "sign" she could always come back to, her safeplace, but wasn't necessarily chained to it like she is now, kind of like a stray cat.
She went from being chained to waiting for her mother to finding her place (free to be herself, on the same level as the others and capable of understanding them, quite the opposite of how it was before her resolve to understand and look at the present Koto) and then back to being chained and not an equal with the others.

I really like this chapter. Despite Aya being more or less the main character we didn't actually know much about her, so it's great to finally get a chapter that focuses on her past and how it made her the way she is now. Moreover, I think the major theme of the story is finally coming into view: perhaps as should have been obvious, it's time, the inevitability of change, and the various maladaptive ways people have of reacting to that inevitability. Thinking about it, I feel like Koto kind of represents the "past," Aya the "present," and Erika the "future." Let me explain.

And yeah I agree with this and yes one could say I'm too insistent on the idea that she values freedom, but isn't that what the present is about? All the opportunities we have and the actions we can take now rather than depending on a nebulous future that may never come at all or seeking for refuge in the past?
Of course, Aya is naive, she couldn't have expected Koto to be this unhealthy but that is because she too was stuck on her idea of Koto, someone who would love her no matter what and would never change... Someone she could go back to despite everything. If she didn't value being free and an equal, she would have accepted being completely dependent on Koto because that, other than their relationship, was the main thing at stake.

And could not that place she wants to belong to be one where she is an equal and not chained to things she doesn't want to be? Her fear of change is connected to her fear of abandonment I'd say.

For Aya, everything is constantly in flux, including herself, so someone who (to her) was honest and sincere enough to always stay the same would naturally stand out to her.

Quoting this because I think it describes her well.

last edited at Sep 8, 2024 4:31AM

Any ideas what happened with Aya's parents? We went from happy family -> "your mom is dirty" -> mom ditching her and disappearing -> also dad seems to have vanished.

I'm guessing adultery and divorce? But also wondering if mom's still alive out there. Or dad, for that matter.

Reading this comment section is so fun, the human mind works in mysterious ways indeed. The time analysis was good, I agree with it. But what about the parents? Ok, mom probably cheated and dad just left, as if breaking off with a partner means breaking off with your own child, even if somehow the kid is a "bastard". When grandmother died, where was mom? When Aya was found, where were the parents? In chapter 3, Erika said Aya was interrogated, how come we only know about the parents in chapter 14? Zero mention about the parents after Aya's reappearance is weird. To me, this Koto drama right now is secondary, and I am more interested about the parents. Still love Erika and hope she can move on from Koto, this girl has no appeal c'mon

Any ideas what happened with Aya's parents? We went from happy family -> "your mom is dirty" -> mom ditching her and disappearing -> also dad seems to have vanished.

I'm guessing adultery and divorce? But also wondering if mom's still alive out there. Or dad, for that matter.

My guess is her father died and her mother was engaging in sex work to make ends meet. She probably felt unable or unworthy to raise Aya and so left her with her grandparents.

I think it would be really interesting if her mother showed up again in the future.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 4:15PM

My guess is her father died and her mother was engaging in sex work to make ends meet. She probably felt unable or unworthy to raise Aya and so left her with her grandparents.

Oh! Interesting alternative. That does feel cleaner in a way (fewer living parents, more oomph to the 'dirty'.)

Cogito posted:

Any ideas what happened with Aya's parents? We went from happy family -> "your mom is dirty" -> mom ditching her and disappearing -> also dad seems to have vanished.

I'm guessing adultery and divorce? But also wondering if mom's still alive out there. Or dad, for that matter.

My guess is her father died and her mother was engaging in sex work to make ends meet. She probably felt unable or unworthy to raise Aya and so left her with her grandparents.

It's probably less lovely than that. A mother leaving their offspring to relatives and disappearing is a recurrent plot device in manga for a reason.

In Japan's society, a single mother has it really hard and since the mother is still young and pretty, her best bet is to find a new man. But with a kid in tow, it's really difficult.

My bet is that she started to work as a hostess (hence the "dirty" comment), but couldn't find a man to support her, because everyone in town knew she had a kid. So, she decided to raise her chances by abandoning Aya and start from a clean slate elsewhere.

Harsh, but the reality of many unwanted kids in Japan.

She's faceless, as was the father, so I doubt she'll show up ever again.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 4:32PM

My bet is that she started to work as a hostess (hence the "dirty" comment), but couldn't find a man to support her, because everyone in town knew she had a kid. So, she decided to raise her chances by abandoning Aya and start from a clean slate elsewhere.

I had the same thoughts. Must've been what the author was looking to convey if our minds went to the same place.

Well I expect this upcoming conversation with Koto won't lead to them reconciling. We still haven't gotten to the title's promise of a love "triangle" since we have a couple and another person liking the one of them one-sidedly.
I expect the two to take a bit of a break (because breaking up would destroy Koto), and Aya would live with Erika in the meantime. I can see during this time Aya eventually coming to develop feelings for Erika (which finally gives us a true love triangle).

But what Aya really needs is an adult to look after her and doesn't want to get into her pants. So living with Erika will probably be good for her emotional development.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 6:27PM

We still haven't gotten to the title's promise of a love "triangle" since we have a couple and another person liking the one of them one-sidedly.

I agree except there's a good number of people who think what you've described is a love triangle (which I disagree with). So, it depends on whether the author considers unrequited love, a love triangle. Some of these "love triangles" are just 2 people genuinely working towards a relationship and a third outsider trying to unsuccessfully weasel their way in, causing issues every now and then.

last edited at Sep 7, 2024 6:41PM

I liked this chapter a lot. It hurt.

It's probably less lovely than that. A mother leaving their offspring to relatives and disappearing is a recurrent plot device in manga for a reason.

In Japan's society, a single mother has it really hard and since the mother is still young and pretty, her best bet is to find a new man. But with a kid in tow, it's really difficult.

My bet is that she started to work as a hostess (hence the "dirty" comment), but couldn't find a man to support her, because everyone in town knew she had a kid. So, she decided to raise her chances by abandoning Aya and start from a clean slate elsewhere.

Harsh, but the reality of many unwanted kids in Japan.

She's faceless, as was the father, so I doubt she'll show up ever again.

True, that's also very plausible. Wonder if we'll ever find out for sure.

She's faceless, as was the father, so I doubt she'll show up ever again.

To add to this, Aya has already moved on, she wouldn't want to meet her mother even if she could.

I liked the symbolism with the bell, it's sound was the first thing Koto and Erika noticed when Aya reappeared back in chapter 1. In a way, it was what let them find her, just like grandma intended. Considering she still has it on all the time, does she keep it because it remains something unchanging about her?