I'm kind of surprised that they actually did it. Usually that's a misdirect. Also, they're both so useless lol

Special up elsewhere (here soon, I suppose).

This is one of those rare series that go from Questionable Morality to Pure Diabetes.

Not that I’m complaining.

Yeah, further confused by it being sex she was getting something out of, namely leniency on her rent. Is prostitution under the influence rape? Is prostitution under duress under the influence rape? Like, it's clearly unethical from the landlady, but it's unclear exactly what form of unethical, and she's clearly trying to become a better person. I'd condemn the hell out of it in real life, but in fiction, kinda complicated, and people can change a lot more easy in fiction.

Coerced sex and sex with someone too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

Yeah, further confused by it being sex she was getting something out of, namely leniency on her rent. Is prostitution under the influence rape? Is prostitution under duress under the influence rape? Like, it's clearly unethical from the landlady, but it's unclear exactly what form of unethical, and she's clearly trying to become a better person. I'd condemn the hell out of it in real life, but in fiction, kinda complicated, and people can change a lot more easy in fiction.

Coerced sex and sex with someone too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

So if you should ever encounter Landlady-san in real life, by all means notify the police.

Dude, I didn't even say anything about the story stop trying to start shit. I don't need another essay about how you don't think real world morality should have any bearing on my opinion of fictional characters.

Sorry, I need to remember where the useless conversations are.

Sorry, I need to remember where the useless conversations are.

So any of the ones involving you.

THIS IS SO GAY I LOVE IT

Yeah, further confused by it being sex she was getting something out of, namely leniency on her rent. Is prostitution under the influence rape? Is prostitution under duress under the influence rape? Like, it's clearly unethical from the landlady, but it's unclear exactly what form of unethical, and she's clearly trying to become a better person. I'd condemn the hell out of it in real life, but in fiction, kinda complicated, and people can change a lot more easy in fiction.

Coerced sex and sex with someone too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

I'm quite aware of both of those facts. It's not entirely clear to me that she was too drunk to consent, nor that it was coerced. Prostitution is not rape. Again, I think it's bad, and the specific definition or form of badness is not clear, but it's not like her sleeping with her landlady because she couldn't make rent is rape in a vacuum, it's much closer to prostitution. And I'm not entirely sure how drunk she was (signs point to "too much" but still), but it is clear that if that was the only thing going on people would not be calling it rape. I believe heavily in consent in all manners of life, and it clearly was not here enough in this case, but the specifics of it are at least slightly muddied.

God they're so gay

God they're so gay

Jupp and i like it that way for them( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I think it's pretty clear from the story that MC was binge drinking. If someone has drunk enough to forget everything by the next day, they were obviously far too drunk to give consent. And Landlady-san acknowledges that, saying she shouldn't have had sex with MC-chan when she was in that state. (Even if MC did remember some of it later on, the fact that she forgot about it at all is an indicative of binge drinking).

But like I said before, it's a gray area situation in this case, because MC-chan doesn't seem to consider that abuse. For instance, I've had sex with my ex in a couple of situations where we were both too drunk to care, and none of us ever thought of that as abuse.

I think the thing about alcohol is that it doesn't necessarily imply rape every time, but since people under alcohol lose the ability to withdraw consent, when you have sex with someone in that state, you are admitting the possibility that you may be raping them.

last edited at Jan 19, 2020 9:16PM

Did this just pop up out of nowhere or have I overlooked it? It's actually pretty cute. Without getting into the seriousness above, I find the characters to be adorable.

I think it's pretty clear from the story that MC was binge drinking. If someone has drunk enough to forget everything by the next day, they were obviously far too drunk to give consent. And Landlady-san acknowledges that, saying she shouldn't have had sex with MC-chan when she was in that state. (Even if MC did remember some of it later on, the fact that she forgot about it at all is an indicative of binge drinking).

But like I said before, it's a gray area situation in this case, because MC-chan doesn't seem to consider that abuse. For instance, I've had sex with my ex in a couple of situations where we were both too drunk to care, and none of us ever thought of that as abuse.

I think the thing about alcohol is that it doesn't necessarily imply rape every time, but since people under alcohol lose the ability to withdraw consent, when you have sex with someone in that state, you are admitting the possibility that you may be raping them.

I would guess it comes to what each person thinks of it afterward? What if BOTH where blackout drunk and BOTH felt like they didn't consent? Is that rape or is it just a case of an akward regret for both parties afterward?

Yeah, further confused by it being sex she was getting something out of, namely leniency on her rent. Is prostitution under the influence rape? Is prostitution under duress under the influence rape? Like, it's clearly unethical from the landlady, but it's unclear exactly what form of unethical, and she's clearly trying to become a better person. I'd condemn the hell out of it in real life, but in fiction, kinda complicated, and people can change a lot more easy in fiction.

Coerced sex and sex with someone too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

I'm quite aware of both of those facts. It's not entirely clear to me that she was too drunk to consent, nor that it was coerced. Prostitution is not rape. Again, I think it's bad, and the specific definition or form of badness is not clear, but it's not like her sleeping with her landlady because she couldn't make rent is rape in a vacuum, it's much closer to prostitution. And I'm not entirely sure how drunk she was (signs point to "too much" but still), but it is clear that if that was the only thing going on people would not be calling it rape. I believe heavily in consent in all manners of life, and it clearly was not here enough in this case, but the specifics of it are at least slightly muddied.

That's not prostitution, that's extortion. In fact the landlord threatening to evict someone unless they have sex with them is pretty much the default example of extortion rape. Even if she was stone sober the power dynamic between landlord and tenant is extremely inappropriate without any quid pro quo, that puts it well over the line.

I think it's pretty clear from the story that MC was binge drinking. If someone has drunk enough to forget everything by the next day, they were obviously far too drunk to give consent. And Landlady-san acknowledges that, saying she shouldn't have had sex with MC-chan when she was in that state. (Even if MC did remember some of it later on, the fact that she forgot about it at all is an indicative of binge drinking).

But like I said before, it's a gray area situation in this case, because MC-chan doesn't seem to consider that abuse. For instance, I've had sex with my ex in a couple of situations where we were both too drunk to care, and none of us ever thought of that as abuse.

I think the thing about alcohol is that it doesn't necessarily imply rape every time, but since people under alcohol lose the ability to withdraw consent, when you have sex with someone in that state, you are admitting the possibility that you may be raping them.

I would guess it comes to what each person thinks of it afterward? What if BOTH where blackout drunk and BOTH felt like they didn't consent? Is that rape or is it just a case of an awkward regret for both parties afterward?

This doesn't really make sense. How could you initiate sex without giving consent? You'd have to not consent to yourself, right? That's weird, and schizophrenic. If you're drunk and still capable of initiating sex with someone else, you're not just consenting, you're making it happen. If both parties were drunk to the point where you lose the ability to consent, sex wouldn't even happen.

Yeah, no, you know what, I'm going to take back my comments in here. My bias based on liking the character involved and some argumentative drive that I (apparently) had today led to me arguing stuff that's really not the case. I'm gonna go ahead and disavow the things I said here, the fact that it was fiction and that I have baggage(tm) about power dynamics and stuff does not change what the actual situation was.

I'm sorry mao

Literally no one in here, not one single person, has said the story shouldn't be written because a rape happened in it. Literally no one. You read into that entirely on your own. In fact, most of the people discussing the situation actively said they liked the manga. For someone complaining about virtue signaling, you're the one arguing against a thing that never happened and is a nonissue.

Edit: someone had like a 4 paragraph essay about how it was ridiculous that we were decrying the media just for featuring problematic content, even though we weren't. That's what both Cecile and myself were replying to.

last edited at Jan 20, 2020 12:29AM

@Anjelika I'm not sure I follow... I mean, if we're just debating whether the situation in this story constitutes rape or not, it's kind of a legitimate discussion, don't you think? And I don't really think we've been competing with each other (at least, I haven't).

Besides, whether this story does or doesn't normalize the unethical stuff is debatable. I can see how different people would interpret this in distinct ways.

too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

Using this context, I've raped someone while simultaneously being raped myself.

Also, the fact that MC remembers Landlady calling her name and being gentle, and a general lack of guilt toward their encounter makes me feel inclined to say that while this is certainly a dubious set of events that it wasn't rape.

The themes in this story definitely skirt the line of propriety but as far as we've seen MC doesn't feel threatened or guilty, she's actually showing positive growth. The framing of the story makes us aware of the compromised beginning, like bluntly, and doesn't try to erase it and instead uses it to show that these 2 girls are lonely and socially isolated and can learn from each other.

(so far as we know at least. some people are perfectly fine being alone at home with few friends just pursuing their own interest. jomo)

last edited at Jan 20, 2020 1:29AM

This is adorable and they obviously are happy with their arrangement (besides being totally gay for each other and wanting more) so just enjoy the yuri

The art is insane, but the story is such a shame. Why do they have to go the "I'll turn you gay" route, there isn't even a hint of the tenant being bi/gay, feels more like a stockholm syndrome story

I agree. I'm not a fan of her pushing her feelings on the other girl like this.

too drunk/high/whatever to give meaningful consent are both rape.

Using this context, I've raped someone while simultaneously being raped myself.

Also, the fact that MC remembers Landlady calling her name and being gentle, and a general lack of guilt toward their encounter makes me feel inclined to say that while this is certainly a dubious set of events that it wasn't rape.

The themes in this story definitely skirt the line of propriety but as far as we've seen MC doesn't feel threatened or guilty, she's actually showing positive growth. The framing of the story makes us aware of the compromised beginning, like bluntly, and doesn't try to erase it and instead uses it to show that these 2 girls are lonely and socially isolated and can learn from each other.

(so far as we know at least. some people are perfectly fine being alone at home with few friends just pursuing their own interest. jomo)

I don't think just because she remembers things about what happened and doesn't feel abused doesn't mean it's not still rape. She didn't want to have sec with her and when she woke up was shocked that she did, implying she wasn't in the right state of mind when it happened. Even though people see it as differently she still had sex without her being fully aware or under dubious consent, which makes me see it as rape.

There is one mystery that'll need to be solved in the chapters yet to come. Why the first time didn't count as a box getting checked off on the contract.

There is one mystery that'll need to be solved in the chapters yet to come. Why the first time didn't count as a box getting checked off on the contract.

That’s the deposit to summon up the contract.