ForumThe Gypsophila’s Short-Lived Calculations discussion

KittyCatOmaniac
E19418efd5cf90129f366e240e5156b3
joined Sep 12, 2014

So much hate in this comment section. Sure, cheating is bad but so is taking a hardline stance of "Cheating is ALWAYS bad regardless of circumstance!" Just from reading the comments you'd think the mom and childhood friend had done some hardcore NTR-play on Yukiko and the dad.

From the look of things, the marriage depicted seems to be the classic loveless marriage, where there may not be any abuse, but there's also no passion. The two just stay married because...well, they're used to being married, and the lack of love isn't a big enough problem for them to get a divorce. And lo, the childhood friend shows up and showers the mom in all the love and passion that's been missing from her marriage for who knows how long.

People are seriously overreacting. Compared to the cheating subplot in say, Yon Shimai, which made me downright FURIOUS at the two adulterers, this is downright tame.

A2bcf11834a1918b3f09b4219b2a099f_r
joined Aug 16, 2014

Sure, cheating is bad but so is taking a hardline stance of "Cheating is ALWAYS bad regardless of circumstance!"

I, for one, have yet to see any kind of cheating solving problems instead of creating more.

That said, I'm much more disturbed by how the mother seem to be leading the friend on without caring for her at all.

joined Apr 1, 2017

The problem mostly comes from how unapologetic and cold both characters involved are. If they were at least anguishing a little bit over this then I could more easily forgive it. They don't seem to give a shit though, not about her husband, not about their daughter, they come off as if they aren't doing anything remotely wrong. Meanwhile Yukiko needs to watch with a smile on her face as her friend stick her tongue down her mom's throat, knowing full well that its killing her inside.

afterschoolteatime
joined Sep 30, 2014

You can pick your nose you can pick your friends but you can't choose your family

Purple Library Guy
Kare%20kano%20joker
joined Mar 3, 2013

knowing full well that its killing her inside.

That seems a bit of an exaggeration, though?

The%20witch's%20house
joined Apr 9, 2015

i need an aangst or depressing af tag for this chapter ;n; i do ship the mom and the childhood friend but ow my heart at the last page

Profile_picture_by_small_cat_girl-d4ix520
joined Jun 12, 2017

So much hate in this comment section. Sure, cheating is bad but so is taking a hardline stance of "Cheating is ALWAYS bad regardless of circumstance!" Just from reading the comments you'd think the mom and childhood friend had done some hardcore NTR-play on Yukiko and the dad.

From the look of things, the marriage depicted seems to be the classic loveless marriage, where there may not be any abuse, but there's also no passion. The two just stay married because...well, they're used to being married, and the lack of love isn't a big enough problem for them to get a divorce. And lo, the childhood friend shows up and showers the mom in all the love and passion that's been missing from her marriage for who knows how long.

People are seriously overreacting. Compared to the cheating subplot in say, Yon Shimai, which made me downright FURIOUS at the two adulterers, this is downright tame.

Do you mean the manga Amanogawa Ke No Yon Shimai?
I've read it but it was a long time ago. What was the cheating subplot in that? I don't remember there being any. Lol then again it was a long one ago since I've read it.

Profile_picture_by_small_cat_girl-d4ix520
joined Jun 12, 2017

I find that the majority of you all are focusing on 'grr I feel so sad, angry, hateful towards the daughter' your missing the resignation she shows in giving up her unfruitful love for her friend and chooses to root for her friend's love with her own mother regardless of the cheating going on. At least that's what I got out of the ending. Bittersweet. I'm rooting for you type of vibe. Cheating regardless even if it's my mom. I want you to be happy.

One fucked up moral I've seen in real-life and fictional is that the happiness of one person from a bystander's (think of the daughter wanting her friend to be happy overall and she supports her as an example) point of view is more important than if it's morally wrong or not.
Some people take the definition Love is Love to far yes they write it in ways that it can be understood. That in a twisted way it's okay. In a twisted way, mind you. I'm not giving this angle the society norm type of way 'cheating is bad no matter what' type.
This angle is more of 'yes cheating is bad but a person's happiness isn't something to be ignored and matters overall'

Sometimes to be with someone you truly Love you have to go through the rough path that is cheating. It's fucked up Morally yes, but life just isn't simple as people say or demonstrate.

People make life complicated by being unable to rein in their emotions and do the right thing. It takes a lot to be courageous, brave or to simply be a better person. Unfortunately.

Freeze%20667
joined Dec 15, 2015

I guess I'm the only one fond of cheating here. It's easier and more pleasurable to live on a hedonist way; which is what the mother seems to be doing, and which I value.

We're not swans, we're not bald eagles. The desire eventually fading away for your partner is natural, and part of the human nature. We've to acknowledge it and act accordingly ;)

But I concede that tricking people and manipulating them is immoral and should be avoided.

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

Rose 0fLife posted:

Do you mean the manga Amanogawa Ke No Yon Shimai?

I'm pretty sure they mean this in which case I can agree 1 adulterer was indeed unredeemable.

Tumblr_oacx7rl55f1tltatqo1_500
joined May 19, 2016

Cant this author be a little bit happier?

Marion Diabolito
Dynsaty%20scans%20avatar%20from%20twgokhs
joined Jan 5, 2015

I don't think it's deeply thought out. Just vaguely that the husband is always away. Maybe to give the mom a good lifestyle. I don't want to stereotype, but according to domestic articles, even, there's often no communication about these issues. The mom in this story repeatedlly says no one notices her, says they love her, or ever praises her. In Japan relationships often go from that mysterious Japanese ESP that's very romantic to a very gender-divided lifestyle where you don't communicate. The husband providing is, like, the only thing that matters.

KittyCatOmaniac
E19418efd5cf90129f366e240e5156b3
joined Sep 12, 2014

Rose 0fLife posted:

Do you mean the manga Amanogawa Ke No Yon Shimai?

I'm pretty sure they mean this in which case I can agree 1 adulterer was indeed unredeemable.

That is indeed the story I was referring to. Mind you, I didn't find the adulteress COMPLETELY irredeemable. The rational part of my brain wants to understand her and even agree with her on some points, whereas the emotional side of me wants her to burn alive for stuff that are too spoileriffic for me to mention because I don't know ho to hide stuff behind spoiler tags because I'm a massive Luddite! xD

Popcorn
joined Jun 5, 2015

Rose 0fLife posted:

Do you mean the manga Amanogawa Ke No Yon Shimai?

I'm pretty sure they mean this in which case I can agree 1 adulterer was indeed unredeemable.

That is indeed the story I was referring to. Mind you, I didn't find the adulteress COMPLETELY irredeemable. The rational part of my brain wants to understand her and even agree with her on some points, whereas the emotional side of me wants her to burn alive for stuff that are too spoileriffic for me to mention because I don't know ho to hide stuff behind spoiler tags because I'm a massive Luddite! xD

I meant the guy, girl while also took part in it, I can at least understand her reasoning. Sure there will be people saying she didn't have to choose someone married, but even then the fault is on the side of married guy for agreeing to do adultery. She didn't pick him because he was married (at least story doesn't imply anything like that). Also you do spoilers like that.

last edited at Jun 12, 2017 7:31PM

Bleach_589___giselle_gewelle_alux-d7quz%20(1)
joined Dec 2, 2014

I kinda feel bad for both, the Wife and the Husband. I think both of them would be happier if they would peacefully divorce.

1575781067560
joined Jun 3, 2014

People are way too sensitive about cheating. I actually don't mind it...this series is pretty good.

I agree

Eh
joined Dec 16, 2014

I want another sequel with the dad's side. I can't settle nor root for these two and how their daughter just support them like that.

Image
joined Oct 13, 2015

[edit: spelling, punctuation and general cleaning up]

Glad to see the demand of blood. Will remember this chapter later and still be mad.

Diaclaimer: what follows is not entirely written towards the quote. I may have gone on a bit of a rant.

People are way too sensitive about cheating. I actually don't mind it...this series is pretty good.

I agree

I cannot understand. Do you mean being cheated on, being the cheater or both is wrong? i may be weird but discovering that i was cheated on and lied to for a number of months really cut deep. And when given the opportunity i always declined because it would mean breaking someone's trust and hurting them.

And if you meant for the story, that the cheating in the story was fine for the storyline; yes. Otherwise we have no story. But people empathise with the characters. More seem sympathetic towards the dad or the daughter because they have less relative control over the situation compared to the friend and mom. The cheating works for much of the first chapter because we see the mom's perspective and understood what it does for her. but there's more wrong with this situation than just cheating now we see through the daughter. The cheating is, though not the root cause, certainly exacerbating things.

This notion of the mother feeling neglected and she's cheating because, though the husband provides financial support, he gives nothing else. I have seen no evidence that the wife is any better. He goes to work, does his job, comes home (maybe goes out but in these examples he is sober and home early enough to see his daughter). She's doing a Fucking terrible job raising her child in a home where she cheats on her husband in front of her daugher with an underage child. Read that sentence again. He doesn't speak to her, compliment her or notice her? Did she even speak to him? Ask him how his day was? Say anything nice to or about him at all?
No. Their marriage has gone to shit not because of him but both of them. It was stable but unfulfilling. Not perfect but more than what a lot of people get. She wanted attention and the moment someone gave it to her, she let them do as they wanted.

Next, the love thing. The mother certainly doesn't love the girl which is besides the point. The child may be in love with the mother but it's the adult's responsibility to stop that. This whole notion of forbidden love is nonsense. It makes it sound more romantic than it should. 2 men/woman? 3 people? A harem? One man and his right hand? Who cares as long as it involves consenting adults. There are certain laws in place for damn good reason. Does a pedophile love a child? Maybe. doesn't make it fine even if it is love from both sides.

Lastly, that cliché end. Daughter is inlove with friend? I don't see where that was alluded to. the friend turns out to be a smug little bitch anyway. And finish it off with the worst bit of 'i'm rooting for you' crap. You're supporting the 'friend' that's only close to you now to get to your mom, who is cheating on your dad. You SUPPORT that? The girl you like nonetheless - though who knows why, the friends you were chatting with earlier were prettier and less bitch-like.

Sorry. I'll return to my cave now.

last edited at Jun 14, 2017 6:52AM

schuyguy Uploader
Imura%20ei%20music%20concert%20face
Yuri Project
joined Jul 14, 2016

Not a huge fan of the way it turned out the daughter was "in love with" her friend, but it seems to be a very odd kind of love, where perhaps the love she felt was different than the love Sayuri accused her of. Either way, I think the perspective shift in this chapter was compelling, and succeeded in adding something interesting.

Like most of the author's works, this is written in a realist style where characters are flawed or even broken, and the author passes no judgement on them, except through the telling of their thoughts and decisions, and the results of their actions. It's pretty clear that the affair will not end well. It's a selfish act of impulsive people. Katakuro Ako obviously isn't promoting infidelity, just writing a story about it, examining how the characters would respond in such a situation, and what emotions drive their actions.

That character's romanticizing "forbidden love" is juxtaposed against the unhappiness shown to result from the affair - the twisted emotions, petty cruelties, and of course the constant potential for exposure. The fact that there is no "reason" for the adultery is an important element of the story. Chitose's not cheating because her husband beats her or abuses her or is always gone or cheats on her himself. She's doing it because she feels empty, because she's attracted to Sayuri, and because she can. These are far more common motives for infidelity than any of the dramatic nonsense that might morally "justify" it in the minds of readers.

I just think it's strange to get so hung up on adultery in a story like this. If you want to read stories that are only about good people, then you're really going to miss out on the vast majority of literature.

Wizardofwonder
Image
joined Sep 11, 2015

Seems Yukiko accepts her mother's and Sayuri's relationship at the end. The only thing that has not been addressed yet is the father.

last edited at Jun 17, 2017 12:57AM

007
joined Apr 11, 2016

what bothers me isn't the cheating but for the fact that both the mom and the childhood friend doesn't really care about yukiko and the dad. from the first story, it was already obvious that it was somewhat a loveless marriage that they have, but still not a reason to cheat on the dad. also, didn't the childhood friend think that she was ruining yukiko's life? i'm also bothered that yukiko thinks cheating is okay as long as it's "love". like, no. cheating is not okay. in other circumstances it could be, but in this case? i see no reason.

the story was nicely written. yukiko deserves better. i hope something happens w those cheating gals.

last edited at Jun 17, 2017 10:51AM

Nep
joined Apr 28, 2016

sick manga 0/10

JustAYuriFangirl
Morikubo-nono-full-1788867
joined Feb 13, 2016

[edit: spelling, punctuation and general cleaning up]

Glad to see the demand of blood. Will remember this chapter later and still be mad.

Diaclaimer: what follows is not entirely written towards the quote. I may have gone on a bit of a rant.

People are way too sensitive about cheating. I actually don't mind it...this series is pretty good.

I agree

I cannot understand. Do you mean being cheated on, being the cheater or both is wrong? i may be weird but discovering that i was cheated on and lied to for a number of months really cut deep. And when given the opportunity i always declined because it would mean breaking someone's trust and hurting them.

And if you meant for the story, that the cheating in the story was fine for the storyline; yes. Otherwise we have no story. But people empathise with the characters. More seem sympathetic towards the dad or the daughter because they have less relative control over the situation compared to the friend and mom. The cheating works for much of the first chapter because we see the mom's perspective and understood what it does for her. but there's more wrong with this situation than just cheating now we see through the daughter. The cheating is, though not the root cause, certainly exacerbating things.

This notion of the mother feeling neglected and she's cheating because, though the husband provides financial support, he gives nothing else. I have seen no evidence that the wife is any better. He goes to work, does his job, comes home (maybe goes out but in these examples he is sober and home early enough to see his daughter). She's doing a Fucking terrible job raising her child in a home where she cheats on her husband in front of her daugher with an underage child. Read that sentence again. He doesn't speak to her, compliment her or notice her? Did she even speak to him? Ask him how his day was? Say anything nice to or about him at all?
No. Their marriage has gone to shit not because of him but both of them. It was stable but unfulfilling. Not perfect but more than what a lot of people get. She wanted attention and the moment someone gave it to her, she let them do as they wanted.

Next, the love thing. The mother certainly doesn't love the girl which is besides the point. The child may be in love with the mother but it's the adult's responsibility to stop that. This whole notion of forbidden love is nonsense. It makes it sound more romantic than it should. 2 men/woman? 3 people? A harem? One man and his right hand? Who cares as long as it involves consenting adults. There are certain laws in place for damn good reason. Does a pedophile love a child? Maybe. doesn't make it fine even if it is love from both sides.

Lastly, that cliché end. Daughter is inlove with friend? I don't see where that was alluded to. the friend turns out to be a smug little bitch anyway. And finish it off with the worst bit of 'i'm rooting for you' crap. You're supporting the 'friend' that's only close to you now to get to your mom, who is cheating on your dad. You SUPPORT that? The girl you like nonetheless - though who knows why, the friends you were chatting with earlier were prettier and less bitch-like.

Sorry. I'll return to my cave now.

^^^^This ×100000000. Especially the part where her 'friend' is like "I'm fucking your mom and I bet you wish that were you" and I got so angry I got goosebumps Jesus that's so smug. The worst part is that we don't actually know how neglectful the husband because we never actually saw him so we can't make any assumptions. Cheating is never justified to me, especially not on the grounds that 'my partner isn't paying attention to me'. Obviously that's bad, but it takes two to dance, especially in this manga's case since we never saw the mother and father interacting and we don't know how much effort they each put in. But even if the husband is neglectful and a bad dude, that doesn't excuse Sayuri's undeserving smug attitude, ESPECIALLY after Daughter got mad about her mother not being nice to her. How far does your head need to be up your own behind to say that to someone who doesn't turn their nose up at your awful, toxic choices? She said she accepts you and you go and say something like that? I'm not saint, but I could never imagine saying something as awful as that to someone who embraces my faults and supports me regardless, especially if those flaws included dating my friend's married mom. Smh. Smh. Smh

last edited at Jul 20, 2017 7:34AM

Marion Diabolito
Dynsaty%20scans%20avatar%20from%20twgokhs
joined Jan 5, 2015

I think the mom does love the girl but thinks the whole thing is bad so she does the usual push away she just isnt firm about it.

Rsz_1465926231839
joined Jun 24, 2015

Makes sense. She married for convenience, but its clearly not what she truly wants. The father seems fine. Its not like he has to worry about the other person, you know, having a bigger dick, more money, getting his wife pregnant. All this girl is doing is giving the wife, comfort, youth, beauty, love. Its a win win for everyone.

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