Maybe all of them are asexual

Some people feel safe to love someone who won't reciprocate their feelings

Finding Jessica Lambert posted:

Some people feel safe to love someone who won't reciprocate their feelings

Except Uta wanted her feelings to be reciprocated, that's why she was agonizing over them.

last edited at Oct 22, 2020 3:52PM

Finding Jessica Lambert posted:

Some people feel safe to love someone who won't reciprocate their feelings

Except Uta wanted her feelings to be reciprocated, that's why she was agonizing over them.

It's called a wishful thinking

....

Anyway, my impression- this is actually the beginning of healthy love between Uta and Kaoru. The end of toxic times, cleaning and clearing the road for healthy start.
I was seeing Kaour like spinless parasite, thank God she took her life in her hands...

And, there is one detail, Uta is blushing at the door. Could they possibly be lovers already, at that time?
Ending depends on reader, I think.

last edited at Feb 23, 2023 12:28AM

Ending depends on reader, I think.

As with so much in this series—the readers couldn’t depend on the author, that’s for sure.

Finding Jessica Lambert posted:

Finding Jessica Lambert posted:

Some people feel safe to love someone who won't reciprocate their feelings

Except Uta wanted her feelings to be reciprocated, that's why she was agonizing over them.

It's called a wishful thinking :)

Rotfl. If Uta was ok with just loving Kaoru, because she knew she won't reciprocate her feelings then she wouldn't be suffering living in the same house as her, interacting with her knowing she's married, eventually confessing to her and after being rejected moving out, despite later saying she wants to live together with her, but she can't while her relationship with Kaoru is the way it is. Entire story would literally not happen and Uta would just keep living with Kaoru and Reiichi, completely content with her life.

And, there is one detail, Uta is blushing at the door. Could they possibly be lovers already, at that time?
Ending depends on reader, I think.

No shit. That's exactly the reason everyone is pissed. Because author left it up to readers.

Wow what a complete waste of time I spent reading this for the past 4 years.

Yes, yes, I agree with you, Nevri, your arguments are right.
I just did not mention Uta, saying "Some people feel safe to love someone who won't reciprocate their feelings"

It was just one thought inspired by manga, in general...

About the open ending, I would like to read part 2, a plot focused on Kuro
I really wish the open ending was the way for a side story, not leaving it up to readers

Ending depends on reader, I think.

As with so much in this series—the readers couldn’t depend on the author, that’s for sure.

Yeah, I really like to think it was just an escape into part 2

Wow what a complete waste of time I spent reading this for the past 4 years.

The fact that the last page says "Thank you all for reading these past four years!!" simultaneously angers me and makes me want to laugh. The absolute audacity of acknowledging how long the author's kept us on tenterhooks, when this is that final resolution, I feels like tMnR just stole my lunch money.

I feels like tMnR just stole my lunch money.

This is a great line—and I feel your pain.

(I only bought the first volume.)

I’m glad it ended like this; I love it so much. In all honesty, I never felt like Uta and Kaoru getting together was possible in the first place, because it sounds “convenient” and out-of-place when Kaoru, who’s had deep troubles with her husband, latch onto Uta as a romantic candidate. As told by the title, “Unrequited Love” is the final ending to me. Simply because I don’t see the two working out in the end. If anything, I’m concerned about how Kaoru manages herself.

The fact that the author is vague about the ending means that it’s not important. The central theme is about their development in those years where Uta was a child who was in love with Kaoru. How it’s going to end is just a small detail to me. If anything, I’m just glad that it seems like they both are doing well, judging from the somewhat down-to-earth, light hearted tone of the last pages. Reading this manga, I went from wanting a romance to just plainly hoping for the characters to be okay in the end. And I got that.

The only one thing is that I wish I could have seen a bit more of Kuro.. I really liked her!

Everyone: Man, I sure am tired of time skip endings in yuri manga.
Author: Two time skips in the final chapter, coming right up!

In all seriousness, I'm not sure how to feel about this ending. I certainly didn't expect it to come so soon, which is probably why I'm unsure. I didn't think there was a clear ending in sight yet, so it just kind of feels like, "Oh, I guess it's over now. Okay." And not like it was brought to a natural and meaningful conclusion. I am glad that everyone seems to be happy now, so that's something. It's not a horrible ending, but it caught me off guard, leaving me a bit unsatisfied. I guess it felt like the manga was about to do more things, interesting things, and didn't.

The fact also remains that the central dramatic question of the manga titled "My Unrequited Love" has always been Will Uta's love ever be requited?, a question that is never really answered. I guess the answer might be supposed to be "No", and I'm not really sure what my feelings on that are if that's the case, but the lack of clarity on top of that makes it feel disappointing and confusing. There's some good stuff in this manga, but I can't help but feel that it missed the mark a bit with what it was trying to do.

last edited at Oct 22, 2020 10:57PM

What kind of ending was that wtf, so rushed. Kinda disappointed but at the same time I'm not, I more or less expected this kind of thing.

If the purpose of writing is communication, the author did a piss-poor job of delivering that communication, because no one knows exactly what happened at the end of this "story." It doesn't matter how many people purchase a bucket of shit for $9.99, it's still a bucket of shit.

But it is probably good shit, if you are growing roses it might be just what you want. If you put it in your sandwich, then complain about it being shit, then that says more about you.

last edited at Oct 23, 2020 1:40AM

circamoore posted:

If the purpose of writing is communication, the author did a piss-poor job of delivering that communication, because no one knows exactly what happened at the end of this "story." It doesn't matter how many people purchase a bucket of shit for $9.99, it's still a bucket of shit.

But it is probably good shit, if you are growing roses it might be just what you want. If you put it in your sandwich, then complain about it being shit, then that says more about you.

I love how you give up on addressing all the arguments that completely invalidate yours and choose to reply to easiest to refute.

If the purpose of writing is communication, the author did a piss-poor job of delivering that communication, because no one knows exactly what happened at the end of this "story." It doesn't matter how many people purchase a bucket of shit for $9.99, it's still a bucket of shit.

But it is probably good shit, if you are growing roses it might be just what you want. If you put it in your sandwich, then complain about it being shit, then that says more about you.

Then what does it speak of when that bucket-o-turd is being sold for putting onto bread (and people still, ahem, eat it up)...?

last edited at Oct 23, 2020 3:32AM

Wow. Just wow. That was the ending? So glad we all wasted 4 years following this series to get that kind of ending.../s

The author should feel ashamed to conclude the story like that. What a load of bullshit.

circamoore posted:

If the purpose of writing is communication, the author did a piss-poor job of delivering that communication, because no one knows exactly what happened at the end of this "story." It doesn't matter how many people purchase a bucket of shit for $9.99, it's still a bucket of shit.

But it is probably good shit, if you are growing roses it might be just what you want. If you put it in your sandwich, then complain about it being shit, then that says more about you.

I love how you give up on addressing all the arguments that completely invalidate yours and choose to reply to easiest to refute.

Because people have been doing exactly that to any post where I put more than one paragraph, I was restricting my responses.

I have challenged people repeatedly to explain how (other than reader projection) the question of a real concrete relationship (or not) between Kaoru and Uta could be a central theme, when the possibility only entered the text in chapter 36, and I have been met with a resounding silence (once we exclude people deciding to pick on a context sentence for an easy win).

Not to mention the related point, also repeatedly raised - Uta and Kaoru started the story being tortured by their feelings, and ended the story having come to terms with their own feelings and eachothers - how is that not a resolution?

The writing has not been perfect. My central theme over and over again is that it is more useful to see the quality of the work as a nuanced multidimensional whole - an aggregate of strengths and weaknesses, successes and failures of storytelling, rather than to write off a flawed work as "bad writing". For many of us the strengths in this work outweigh the weaknesses - it is positive for us, "good", even if not perfectly so. Perhaps for you it isn't. That doesn't mean one person's taste is better than another, it means they are different.

Good, bad, strong, weak, succeed, fail - they can all only be judged in context, with a purpose, and everybody's context is different; some things work broadly, some things fail broadly but nothing is universal. People weight different points differently, have differing assessments of a particular point, and don't even use the same set of set of points.

Popularity/success of a work is a strong indication that it has "worked" for many people, that in their contexts it did something right.

The experience of different people reading the same work is connected, but also unique - that's fandom in all its ugly splendor.

I'm going to risk an analogy, even though they always seem to bite me in the ass. Let's talk about fun.

I expect there are a lot of neurodiverse people here (it is a forum for a web manga site after all; if you aren't, you know someone who is).
As a neurodiverse person Imagine some kind happy party-going extrovert butting in on whatever you are enjoying doing and telling you that you need to get out and have some fun. Imagine that well-intentioned but clueless bastard thinking they have the universal and exclusive definition of what "real" fun is.

Now imagine they are confidently asserting that the thing you enjoy is "bad" because it doesn't meet their expectations of it.

By all means talk about what does and doesn't work for you, but don't presume that people who perceive things differently are wrong or blind.

If the purpose of writing is communication, the author did a piss-poor job of delivering that communication, because no one knows exactly what happened at the end of this "story." It doesn't matter how many people purchase a bucket of shit for $9.99, it's still a bucket of shit.

But it is probably good shit, if you are growing roses it might be just what you want. If you put it in your sandwich, then complain about it being shit, then that says more about you.

Then what does it speak of when that bucket-o-turd is being sold for putting onto bread (and people still, ahem, eat it up)...?

Or did you just assume that it was, because it was billed as nutritious - when consumed by organisms with needs different from your own.

last edited at Oct 23, 2020 5:29AM

My take on the ending? Uta may have met someone but didn't work out; Kaoru sorted herself, and then at some point they meet again at Uta's graduation and from then on started spending time again together and finally realized they're now on the same page. Its kinda awkward though when Uta and Kaoru lives so close to Reichi's because well.. That was your husband and now you're dating his sister? XD I wonder what is everyone else's take on the final chapter. Like if you were the author, how would you have ended things?

circamoore posted:

Because people have been doing exactly that to any post where I put more than one paragraph, I was restricting my responses.

Ok, now that's just straight bullshit. You kept using as your main argument that the story was never about Uta's unrequited love and so people kept disagreeing with that fact. It's the entire crux of your argument, so if we can't agree on that, talking about anything else is pointless. And even then, you have pages upon pages of history of people trying to explain exactly how and why the story is flawed, even as recently as last pages. People addressed all your arguments. You simply always disagreed and repeated the same exact argument in longer or shorter form.

I have challenged people repeatedly to explain how (other than reader projection) the question of a real concrete relationship (or not) between Kaoru and Uta could be a central theme

I repeatedly said that entire premise is based on the fact that Uta suffers, because she loves Kaoru and knows she can't be together with her. Yes, there's character growth and change of perspective both from Uta and Kaoru, I'm not denying it. But that doesn't change the fact that source of Uta's angst is wanting to be with Kaoru. She tried to distance herself from her, because being together when she knew she'll never be together with her was too painful. As many people said over and over, they finally maturing and growing as a people was first step of the story. We finally got to the point where they can actually work out their feelings together. Something that was completely skipped by the author and they just jumped right to the point where everything was solved and then again to when they live together. The answer to what's their relationship now, the entire reason we read the damn thing, is missing. And if they really just live together again, but Uta is fine simply loving Kaoru and Kaoru still sees her as her younger sister, then fine, that's some conclusion (which again, author did not bother to confirm nor deny), but then it's also not exactly satisfying ending after all this drama. Again, the whole issue people have is that we don't know how exactly they got to the point we see them at the end and what this exactly mean for their relationship. Relationship that was the fucking center focus of entire manga. And if you tell me it was actually about Kaoru's marriage to Reiichi or something, I'll probably lose it.

Not to mention the related point, also repeatedly raised - Uta and Kaoru started the story being tortured by their feelings, and ended the story having come to terms with their own feelings and eachothers - how is that not a resolution?

Going from what I wrote above and what many people said. Actually leaving it at the point where chapter 36 ends or even after first time skip would work out much better as ambiguous, open ending. If author would leave it at that point, it could work without addressing anything. We know at this point they live separately, Uta is still hoping it can work in the future and Kaoru is putting her life together. It leaves future up to interpretation, but on hopeful note. The issue is those last few pages completely shoehorned in, implying that they got together later, but at the point we last saw them, it wasn't a logical leap to assume. Again, the main issue is people wanted to see how they eventually work out their issue and get together or part ways. We kinda got both as well as in the end we don't even know what this ending is supposed to mean. If author ended series on chapter 36, it wouldn't be exactly satisfying, but at least it wouldn't be confusing.

The writing has not been perfect. My central theme over and over again is that it is more useful to see the quality of the work as a nuanced multidimensional whole - an aggregate of strengths and weaknesses, successes and failures of storytelling, rather than to write off a flawed work as "bad writing".

Again, you're being dishonest. Of course that's normal. That's how all critic works. If you criticize entire work, you sum up all that was good and bad. The thing is everyone who is criticizing the ending also criticized the rest of the work and said the ending is the clear outcome of all the work that proceeded it. Most people who only complain about the ending only have issue with the ending. They read rest of the work more or less enjoying it or not finding any too big issues with it. Their only problem is ending. But people like us who are arguing with you right now always talked about other aspects of the work and for us ending is just part of the problem why entire work was badly written. Again, author was clearly setting up for a slow burn and since they introduced the whole Reiichi doesn't love Kaoru and they divorce, was setting up that they'd eventually end up together. And then they never really showed how it happened. If they really just wanted to leave it unrequited and about emotional growth, they why make Reiichi a bad husband? Making him great husband and Kaoru being in loving relationship would only strengthen the drama of Uta's love. Why divorce them giving readers hope to then completely disregard this element?

For many of us the strengths in this work outweigh the weaknesses - it is positive for us, "good", even if not perfectly so. Perhaps for you it isn't. That doesn't mean one person's taste is better than another, it means they are different.

And that's where you finally admit you misunderstood our arguments completely and we talk about 2 entire different things. Nobody ever told you that you're not allowed to enjoy it. Hell, nobody told you liking something bad is wrong. For fuck's sake, I even said in my recent posts that there's nothing wrong with liking something bad. It's you who conflates liking something with that thing being good. You're the one who considers themselves superior, that you couldn't possibly like something bad, therefore it must be good. We never talked about taste. Like whatever you like. We always talked about overall quality of the work. Not the enjoyment you can take from it. It's perfectly normal to enjoy something despite it's flaws. I like many things, while admitting that they're not perfect or have some serious issues. You can disagree that those are flaws, but don't deny them just because you like the work, so there can't be anything wrong with it.

Good, bad, strong, weak, succeed, fail - they can all only be judged in context, with a purpose, and everybody's context is different; some things work broadly, some things fail broadly but nothing is universal. People weight different points differently, have differing assessments of a particular point, and don't even use the same set of set of points.

We got it. Everything is subjective. No need to look down on us and be condescending assuming we're too stupid to understand that.

Popularity/success of a work is a strong indication that it has "worked" for many people, that in their contexts it did something right.

Yea, again something I already explained, but you kindly completely ignored it. You seem to fail to understand that people get invested into works. Good premise or likable characters is really all most people need to read the work till the end. Once you get people hooked you need to work really hard to loose them. Hell, even if your work goes completely to shit, many will keep on reading just because they're invested at this point, want to see how the thing will end for themselves or simply feel that all the time and emotions they put into reading it would go to waste if they dropped it now. Again, something I already addressed in my recent posts and you clearly didn't read or didn't bother to address.

The experience of different people reading the same work is connected, but also unique - that's fandom in all its ugly splendor.

That's the biggest nothing statement of this post so far.

I'm going to risk an analogy, even though they always seem to bite me in the ass. Let's talk about fun.

I expect there are a lot of neurodiverse people here (it is a forum for a web manga site after all; if you aren't, you know someone who is).
As a neurodiverse person Imagine some kind happy party-going extrovert butting in on whatever you are enjoying doing and telling you that you need to get out and have some fun. Imagine that well-intentioned but clueless bastard thinking they have the universal and exclusive definition of what "real" fun is.

Now imagine they are confidently asserting that the thing you enjoy is "bad" because it doesn't meet their expectations of it.

Again, nobody told you you can't have fun. Something being bad doesn't exclude you from enjoying it or having fun with it.

By all means talk about what does and doesn't work for you, but don't presume that people who perceive things differently are wrong or blind.

If you perceive things differently that's fine. We can talk and disagree about that. It's all lost the moment you say stuff like "I liked it so it must have been good" and feel like calling a work you liked bad is somehow a attack on you persona and your enjoyment of the work.

I knew talking to you is a waste of time, but I tried it anyway, but now I see it wasn't worth my time. This is last post from me, if you still don't get it, then it's not my problem.

last edited at Oct 23, 2020 6:56AM

I have challenged people repeatedly to explain how (other than reader projection) the question of a real concrete relationship (or not) between Kaoru and Uta could be a central theme, when the possibility only entered the text in chapter 36,

You mean Chapter 1. Or rather, the title. Or rather, the first fucking marketing blurb for the series before any actual chapters were even published.

If the purpose of writing is communication, the author did a piss-poor job of delivering that communication, because no one knows exactly what happened at the end of this "story." It doesn't matter how many people purchase a bucket of shit for $9.99, it's still a bucket of shit.

But it is probably good shit, if you are growing roses it might be just what you want. If you put it in your sandwich, then complain about it being shit, then that says more about you.

Blatantly refusing to understand the point and making a ridiculous comparison is a sign that you don't even believe your own argument. This isn't a question of whether people liked the ending or agreed that it should end that way. There was no ending to like or dislike in the first place. There was no resolution or explanation for anything that happened after the second time skip. Imagine if "The Usual Suspects" had ended with Verbal walking out of the police station limping and then faded to black to roll the credits. Imagine if "The Sixth Sense" had ended without Dr. Crowe seeing his wedding ring fall out of his wife's hand.

This non-ending was lazy and it was confusing, and I believe it was because the author couldn't make up their damn mind about who of the most vocal readers to disappoint - the "free Uta" crowd or the "Uta x Kaoru" crowd. So they decided, "why not both?" Readers wanted a story, not a Choose Your Own Adventure novel with all of the endings torn out.

Again, the main issue is people wanted to see how they eventually work out their issue and get together or part ways. We kinda got both as well as in the end we don't even know what this ending is supposed to mean.

This part was especially frustrating because throughout the almost three dozen chapters of the series we did get to see a whole bunch of other stuff with only indirect relevance to the main story (the Three Stooges of High School Love) as well as excruciating detail about the process by which Kaoru finally accepted the fact that Reiichi, who seemed to be a crappy, inattentive husband from the very first moment we saw him, was in fact a crappy, inattentive husband.

The parallel with the main Citrus story is obvious—both authors set up a situation where there were apparently irresolvable problems, wandered around for many chapters without directly addressing those problems, then put out a rushed finale where the central problems of the story were just handwaved away.

The difference, of course, is that Citrus committed to showing the happy ending that the rest of the story had rendered so implausible, while this one went the coy “let the reader decide” route—so a double authorial copout to match its double (arguably triple) timeskip.

last edited at Oct 23, 2020 7:44AM