I guess my standards for "femininely" aren't so strict as to preclude pants, so we can go with another word if we want. Implying women in Japan don't wear due to the supposedly alien culture was the type of thing I was wanting to avoid, but I do have the impression that beauty standards are somewhat stricter.

Most women are wearing pants in Japan and are still feminine. Even most office lady are wearing pants nowadays. It's 2024, even in Japan...

Saying that just because she is wearing pants, we can switch Erika's face with a man and it wouldn't be out of place is nonsense. You can be plenty feminine while wearing pants... Pants for girls are not cut the same way as the one for guys, same goes for Tshirt, shirt or any other type of cloth. Erika is definitely feminine in her way of dressing up. Not overly, but she is. Honestly, both her style and Koto's style are pretty standard if you are looking at women in their 20ties in Japan. In contrast, it is true that Aya is dressing in a more childish way.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 9:17AM

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am saying that to me being normatively feminine can involve pants, rather than precluding ("precluding" means "not being possible with") pants. Therefore pants being acceptable doesn't show a lack of pressure to dress femininely as I define the word.

I am also saying I wouldn't mind if we used some other word than feminine to describe the standards around what's seen as the proper way for women to dress.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 9:35AM

I think you are misunderstanding me. I am saying that to me being normatively feminine can involve pants, rather than precluding ("precluding" means "not being possible with") pants. Therefore pants being acceptable doesn't show a lack of pressure to dress femininely as I define the word.

Sorry, I misinterpreted the word precluding indeed.

I know there's pants only for the ladies but why Erika never dressed in skirt…

Aya is dressing in a more childish way

Because she is still a kid… bro

Btw, have any idea what happened on Kabocha recently? She haven't updated her Twitter nearly two months

@Aikosaurus

Sorry, I misinterpreted the word precluding indeed.

No problem, this is a thread where we take turns misunderstanding each other.

@rosetammy25

I know there's pants only for the ladies but why Erika never dressed in skirt…

My guess is that, in addition to possibly being known for a type of image, skirts are associated with looking "mature" due to being more common in past times. "Mature" quickly becomes "stuffy" for a younger person trying to look fashionable, while 21 is still fairly young when you get down to it.

Pants also tend to be more practical, so sticking with them when you don't have a compelling reason not to seems understandable to me. Maybe we'll see Erika in a skirt eventually, like in a photo shoot or when she needs to be more formal.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 10:37AM

Btw, have any idea what happened on Kabocha recently? She haven't updated her Twitter nearly two months

She wrote about having a mental breakdown a few months ago on her Pivix fanbox. That's when the publication schedule changed from one chapter a month, to one every two months. At that time, she wasn't active on Twitter as well. My guess is that she had relapse (but I hope I'm wrong and she is just taking a break).

That's such a lazy attempt to trigger the libs. "if a woman wears pants she's like a man" is a brand of sexism so old that it died out before it could even be broadcast as an opinion over the radio, let alone seriously argued on the internet lmao. Even your grandfather's grandfather didn't earnestly believe that shit and yet you expect us to believe you're serious instead of trying to troll without putting in a single iota of effort? foh

Btw, have any idea what happened on Kabocha recently? She haven't updated her Twitter nearly two months

She wrote about having a mental breakdown a few months ago on her Pivix fanbox. That's when the publication schedule changed from one chapter a month, to one every two months. At that time, she wasn't active on Twitter as well. My guess is that she had relapse (but I hope I'm wrong and she is just taking a break).

Ch 17 is already out (non english) and the next ch part will be realized on 6 jan probably.

Answering the question of the possible significance of how the characters dress gets at that “principles of textual interpretation” thing I previously mentioned, as a way of of avoiding idiosyncratic garbage takes like “Erika looks like/dresses like a man.” The first thing is to start inside the text rather than jumping to reference real-life cultural norms (although we can assume that the author consciously or unconsciously has such norms as one pole of reference).

• When we first meet our trio of MCs, they are in fact dressed quite differently from one another: Aya of course is in her middle-school uniform, Erika is wearing pants, and Koto appears to have on a long top over tights (we don’t really see her in an outfit like that again).

• As is to be expected in the scenes set in middle-school or high school, all the characters are either wearing uniforms or PE clothes.

• In the present, when Erika is choosing her own clothes she does indeed consistently wear pants. (But it’s technically false that “Erika never wears a skirt”—she’s wearing a skirt when we see her on stage.)

Is this unusual for her age group in this storyworld? While we don’t get many crowd scenes in this series, the answer is clearly “no.” For instance, Koto’s college friend (the one to whom she introduces Aya as a “cousin’s daughter”) wears pants, as do Erika’s acting kouhai Tsukuba as well as Aya’s work boss Kamagaya.

• In public Koto does tend to wear skirts, but at home/casually she’s seen wearing pants more often than not.

• Aya, who at first in the narrative present has no need to consider a public persona (no school or job responsibilities) does wear an array of clothes that might be considered “younger”—shorter skirts than Koto and (unlike either of the other two) shorts, often fairly short in length.

So I would say that Aya’s style is the most potentially thematically significant—Aya is consistently seen with exposed legs in a way that the other two never are. That can be read in several different ways: as more “childish” than the age group/social set in which she finds herself; as more confident in her physical self than the other two (which would be consistent with the brash, outwardly self-assured Aya we saw in middle school); or as a sign of her vulnerability given her uncertain present situation. Or indeed as some combination of these aspects.

EDIT: I would add that panels of Aya are often framed so that we see that her legs are bare, not in a fanservice-y way, but just that that aspect of her physical appearance is visible.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 12:45PM

I feel like I need to point out no one actually said they think Erika dresses like a man. Just in case anyone is still not getting this. I love you all, but this has to be the most high strung discussion of a comic I've seen.

Rosetammy25 might think skirts are more feminine than pants (they are if by feminine you mean "clothing men don't typically wear," rather than "clothing seen as normatively appropriate for women" like I did), but that's pretty far from saying a woman who wears women's pants is dressing like a man. And Aikosaurus thought I was stereotyping Japanese attitudes as medievally regressive, rather than stating my own attitude.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 1:14PM

I feel like I need to point out no one actually said they think Erika dresses like a man. Just in case anyone is still not getting this. I love you all, but this has to be the most high strung discussion of a comic I've seen.

Rosetammy25 might think skirts are more feminine than pants (they are if by feminine you mean "clothing men don't typically wear," rather than "clothing seen as normatively appropriate for women" like I did), but that's pretty far from saying a woman who wears women's pants is dressing like a man. And Aikosaurus thought I was stereotyping Japanese attitudes as medievally regressive, rather than stating my own attitude.

No, the poster I was referring to certainly did not make a cultural generalization. They said:

“We can switch [Erika’s] face with a man at any moment and wouldn't feel out of place.”

My post was about trying to get at the question of what, if any, significance the way the characters are dressed might be by referencing the text itself.

Why you feel the need to scold anyone about this escapes me entirely.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 1:27PM

Because it was my turn to misunderstand someone, clearly. I missed that sentence, so the first time I thought it was referenced was Aikosaurus posting a disagreement to me. Though rosetammy has since acknowledged the reality of women's pants.

Apologies if I came across as scolding, in any case. I can go sit in a corner and scold myself instead.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 2:02PM

Because it was my turn to misunderstand someone, clearly. I missed that sentence, so the first time I thought it was referenced was Aikosaurus posting a disagreement to me. Though rosetammy has since acknowledged the reality of women's pants.

Apologies if I came across as scolding, in any case. I can go sit in a corner and scold myself instead.

OK, I’m sorry too—I know you’re trying to keep the discourse civil.

Because it was my turn to misunderstand someone, clearly. I missed that sentence, so the first time I thought it was referenced was Aikosaurus posting a disagreement to me. Though rosetammy has since acknowledged the reality of women's pants.

Apologies if I came across as scolding, in any case. I can go sit in a corner and scold myself instead.

Well, it's mostly my fault, sorry. I did misinterpret part of your post but I also didn't quote Rosetammy's post, even if I was mostly answering to that sentence in my post "We can switch her face with a man at any moment and wouldn't feel out of place.".

I never thought you had regressive thoughts about Japan, quite the contrary.

I have to admit, I have been a bit frustrated with that user because they are quite rude and condescending. But answering rudely on my side because of it is definitely not smart... My bad.

@Aikosaurus
I had seen you interact with Kabocha on the Twitter (you use the same user name) so l know you can speak Japanese. What do you think about " 琴から連絡来てたんだ " ? Could it be Erika's talking?
It's interesting both English and Chinese translator have made the same mistake. l got to admit it's a good way to tell they actually can't speak Japanese irl if that's not a misreading.

And isn't internet a place letting people say whatever they want? As long as they don't insult users, l can't see any wrong of it. I saw some users here had made post making others feel rude and condescending. Why are you only aiming at me? Because l hate Erika? Well, that would never change ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

I appreciate everyone's understanding. I want for people to feel comfortable continuing to share their unique perspectives, with even the pants discourse leading to people sharing insights about the story. My own conduct is still clearly lacking when I express that in a way where I am condescending or not properly listening to others. So I must assume my own blame as far as that goes.

And isn't internet a place letting people say whatever they want? As long as they don't insult users, l can't see any wrong of it. I saw some users here had made post making others feel rude and condescending. Why are you only aiming at me? Because l hate Erika? Well, that would never change ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

Well, not strictly. Some of what people want to say could be a crime, like organizing a group to murder me would be, while other choices could have a bad impact on others like triggering someone's PTSD. I'm intentionally using examples you haven't done to make a broader point.

That said, I understand why people would have a strong reaction to being able to change Erika's face with a man's. Even if your real position is "I would otherwise accept Erika's character design on a male character and I find it strange that the fashionable model has only worn a skirt as part of a costume" (I'm like 90% sure you think this), a reader could misunderstand the phrasing you used. The reader could also be a woman who has been judged harshly for their clothing choices, which typically leads to feeling defensive. This person would be less uncomfortable and more receptive to what you want to say if you made it clear you aren't one who likes to police how women dress.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 8:47AM

And isn't internet a place letting people say whatever they want? As long as they don't insult users, l can't see any wrong of it. I saw some users here had made post making others feel rude and condescending. Why are you only aiming at me? Because l hate Erika? Well, that would never change ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

Well, not strictly. Some of what people want to say could be a crime, like organizing a group to murder me would be, while other choices could have a bad impact on others like triggering someone's PTSD. I'm intentionally using examples you haven't done to make a broader point.

That said, I understand why people would have a strong reaction to being able to change Erika's face with a man's. Even if your real position is "I would otherwise accept Erika's character design on a male character and I find it strange that the fashionable model has only worn a skirt as part of a costume" (I'm like 90% sure you think this), a reader could misunderstand the phrasing you used. The reader could also be a woman who has been judged harshly for their clothing choices, which typically leads to feeling defensive. This person would be less uncomfortable and more receptive to what you want to say if you made it clear you aren't one who likes to police how women dress.

Ofc women can dress whatever they want. None of my business lol. I just want to express what l feel about Erika's taste in clothes. Like @Gabinomicon also said Koto is dressed very immaturely. At least Koto chooses skirts or dresses sometimes, which let me feel more feminine. It's really laughable and ridiculous a stranger's opinions (without personal attack) on the internet can trigger anyone's Ptsd.
If that's the case, I will suggest them stop using Internet from now on.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 10:38AM

If you wanted to trigger someone's PTSD, you can probably find lots of ways to do this where that would not be ridiculous for them to react that way. Some other people (ie not you) actually do enjoy tormenting mentally ill people, who are also people who may be isolated and otherwise benefit a lot from online communities.

This, while being unrelated to anything you did, disproves that people should say what they want if it's online. Whether online or not, we have to be thinking about the consequences of speech, while hopefully still allowing for freedom of thought as much as possible.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 12:02PM

Erika could have confessed, considering Koto was drunk, but it would have been pointless since Koto might not remember it the next morning. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch17#33

I'm all caught up. No more chapters before a while.

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 5:27PM

Feels like they're chasing Aya's back (Aya is literally like 15)

Edit: Guys have you been to Japan, women wear pants all the time. They wear skirts/dresses when they're trying to be cute tho, or to signal that they're like. Straight. (Idk how else to describe it)
Pants give off the impression of being more chic though
I also noticed more women wearing pants in Tokyo compared to anywhere else

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 6:38PM

Most important information this chapter: Another chapter of Erika wearing pants and Koto wearing a skirt / baggy clothing. Like Koto is trying to hide almost.

That being the most important information was a joke, but this was a good chapter in terms of Erika. We see her being careful to try to have a good impact on everyone, including drunk Koto. This is despite snarking at people and questioning herself. The fact that she's not sure if she "has a right" to confess suggests to me that getting with Koto is in fact not her primary goal, despite it clearly being something she wants a lot.

but this was a good chapter in terms of Erika. We see her being careful to try to have a good impact on everyone, including drunk Koto. This is despite snarking at people and questioning herself. The fact that she's not sure if she "has a right" to confess suggests to me that getting with Koto is in fact not her primary goal, despite it clearly being something she wants a lot.

I agree, this chapter was good in terms of Erika. It made me even more curious about Erika's intentions and the purpose of her character in the story. For me, this chapter highlighted that when Aya isn’t around, Erika is the one taking care of Koto, and vice versa. I have a feeling the story is going to get really intense. For some reason, I can’t shake the thought that Erika might leave the picture toward the end of the series, realizing her feelings for Koto won’t reach her.
Chapter 8 kind of hinted at this through Erika’s internal thoughts.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch08#26

Also I don’t mean to sound rude by saying this, but after reading the discussion about Erika in this forum, I feel more confused than informed. The discussion about whether she is or isn’t manipulative or selfish etc are slightly distorting my perception of her. At this point, instead of speculating about what might happen, I’m more curious to see how the story unfolds with each update and being surprised along the way. :D

last edited at Dec 28, 2024 7:54PM

While it’s not exactly hard information, I thought this page was extremely suggestive:

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/how_to_break_a_triangle_ch17#34

• Top three panels: flashback montage from middle school through high school to the immediate present (they’re wearing same clothes as the preceding scene). Then:

• Tanabata wishes on a tree. (If I recall correctly, we saw a similar shot when Erika wished for Aya’s return, but not as part of her original disappearance.)

• Then what looks like a distressed Erika talking to Aya, who is dressed in her middle-school uniform.

I read this last sequence as reinforcing the suggestion that Erika did write a wish that Aya would disappear, either before or after their festival conversation. Erika’s distraught expression in the last panel suggests that she’s telling Aya that she loves Koto, not that she’s attacking Aya.

The last chapter and that other girl asking about aya being spirited away suggests there is a timeframe aya has forgotten, and was possibly peter pan'd. Erika had mentioned before about tanabata day but aya swore she was only there til the day before. She has definitely lost time she can't remember. Might also have to do with what happened to her grandpa that night.