It took me quite a while to come to the realization that, pushed beyond a basic and fairly benign level of responding to characters positively or negatively, “shipping” often tends to become toxic, and at the far end of the spectrum amounts to a form of self-inflicted cognitive impairment.

I believe that now more than ever.

It definitely ruins story analysis that's for sure. Creates a really strong and nonsensical bias in people. Hard to get around and really makes discussions annoyingly absurd.

Please Please tell me where my analysis of story is nonsensical bias. It's not like l accuse Erika for things she didn't do. Aya disappeared after that conversation with Erika. And Erika always feels guilt of something she had done towards Aya seven years ago (this part can be sure now).

Shipping is fine as long as you don't cross the streams. Channel that energy into fanfic or something rather than trying to force it to be real. Unfortunately there's a lot of people who swing hard the other way and act like ALL romantic reads of a story are purely fanfic because they view subtext as completely meaningless for some reason. These two poles are very annoying to be stuck between.

It took me quite a while to come to the realization that, pushed beyond a basic and fairly benign level of responding to characters positively or negatively, “shipping” often tends to become toxic, and at the far end of the spectrum amounts to a form of self-inflicted cognitive impairment.

I believe that now more than ever.

It definitely ruins story analysis that's for sure. Creates a really strong and nonsensical bias in people. Hard to get around and really makes discussions annoyingly absurd.

Please Please tell me where my analysis of story is nonsensical bias. It's not like l accuse Erika for things she didn't do. Aya disappeared after that conversation with Erika. And Erika always feels guilt of something she had done towards Aya seven years ago (this part can be sure now).

I don't know you, didn't see your comment and certainly didn't say anything about you specifically. If you're unsure of whether I'm directly responding to you, just ask first. I didn't quote you and made general comments.

last edited at Dec 22, 2024 7:58AM

I don't know you, didn't see your comment and certainly didn't say anything about you specifically. If you're unsure of whether I'm directly responding to you, just ask first. I didn't quote you and made general comments.

Ok.

In the translated chapters, Erika has done nothing wrong, except maybe pick a fight with Aya 7 years ago, which cannot be rationally blamed for Aya's supernatural disappearance. The one who actually crossed a line was older Koto with her "just stay home and don't go anywhere".

Hope this helps.

We'll see what happens but everyone can bet and have a theory what'll happen or what happened in the past and I was already right w that pastErika theory... about her becoming "insanely" jealous over AyaKoto and that she takes out her frustration on Aya in some kind of way around Tanabata time. (for me it wasn't too hard to figure it out) Maybe she played a big part in the disappearance, maybe not... You sisbros are a bit too blind to see what could be behind the "walls", tbh (there are hints, imo) even tho we also just guessing.

last edited at Dec 22, 2024 2:14PM

We'll see what happens but everyone can bet and have a theory what'll happen or what happened in the past and I was already right w that pastErika theory... about her becoming "insanely" jealous over AyaKoto and that she takes out her frustration on Aya in some kind of way around Tanabata time. (for me it wasn't too hard to figure it out) Maybe she played a big part in the disappearance, maybe not... You sisbros are a bit too blind to see what could be behind the "walls", tbh (there are hints, imo) even tho we also just guessing.

Who exactly are the “sisbros”? What exactly does that term mean?

You yourself say that Erika may or may not be the cause of Aya’s disappearance, and all this business about what Erika supposedly did to Aya at the festival is pure reader speculation that might as well be fanfic. Whatever happened between the two may have been something horrible, it may have been completely innocuous, it may have been something in between. At this point, we just don’t know.

This is what I mean by saying that the “pro-/anti-character” discourse is an intellectual dead-end—it leads away from balanced readings of textual evidence to “us vs them” cheerleading.

In the translated chapters, Erika has done nothing wrong, except maybe pick a fight with Aya 7 years ago, which cannot be rationally blamed for Aya's supernatural disappearance. The one who actually crossed a line was older Koto with her "just stay home and don't go anywhere".

Hope this helps.

LOL what's the big deal.
It's not like she really forced Aya to stay home. All Koto had done was beg, which she already apologized to Aya afterwards. Aya was her girlfriend. How can it be crossing a line when there's no threatening or force.

In Erika's case, however, she just proved how suck a friend can be. Koto was not her girlfriend, nor did she know Erika's feelings. Then you went fight with her girlfriend behind her back??? Who the hell does Erika think she is to have that right??? Admit it. She just DGAF of others having their own thoughts and feelings. Only her fucking unrequited love is a thing which everyone has the obligation to help her be reciprocated. Not to mention Erika isn't better as a fucking grown up ass woman. For those who still can't get it now, imagine someone you don't even have a little interest use you to masturbate all this time while faking a face of caring friend in front of you and your love. Not really give a hand or useful advice cause them want you to be theirs. Who in the world would want this kind of friend???

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aya disappeared right after the conversation with Erika. Ofc it's just a coincidence.

last edited at Dec 22, 2024 10:42PM

Aya is her financially dependent and underage girlfriend living with her. Making a request like that is pretty creepy at least, which is why Aya left.

There is no evidence so far that Erika knowingly caused Aya to disappear. Even if she wrote down a Tanabata wish to that effect, it would reasonably have been emotional venting, not something she would expect to happen. Even if Erika turns out to have caused Aya's disappearance somehow, it is unlikely she is morally responsible for it.

It's hilarious that people think Erika did something horrible that night at the festival when she's the one who brought it up, with a tone suggestion she feels awkward or embarrassed, not guilty or ashamed.
Erika has, very literally, done nothing wrong so far in this manga. We have not seen her do a single harmful act or do or say anything intending a negative outcome for anyone. She's had guilty thoughts over her conflict of interest wrt Koto but those are normal things for a person to think, especially in a love triangle relationship drama. She's very average for the genre in that regard, not one of the antagonists, but also missing a bit too much spice and/or proactivity to be the main character who gets the girl. The fact that in this manga this normally side girl archetype gets be a main and her thinking explored in depth is one of the more interesting things about this manga so far imo.
Aya's got the features of a main character, and that MC archetype being nerfed by putting her at such a big disadvantage that she works to overcome is another really interesting aspect of this manga. :)
Koto's most similar to minor antagonists usually shown as two dimensional and treated as disposable, so her getting taken seriously and expanded on into a more fleshed out believable character is a third interesting feature of this manga lol

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 2:00AM

Aya disappeared right after the conversation with Erika. Ofc it's just a coincidence.

This bad-faith paraphrase of what a number of people have been saying is just another example of the intellectual bankruptcy of your argumentation in this thread.

The text has indeed made the strongest suggestion that what happened between Aya and Erika at the Tanabata festival had something to do with Aya’s disappearance; nobody here has been arguing that it’s a mere irrelevant coincidence. We assume that at some point that “something” will be revealed, but perhaps not.

You’re certainly free to build elaborate castles in the air out of your personal hostility towards the character concerning what you fantasize that scene must have been like, but you haven’t given any reason for anyone to take those fabulations seriously as a thoughtful reading of the story.

Aya is her financially dependent and underage girlfriend living with her. Making a request like that is pretty creepy at least, which is why Aya left.

I can see Aya gets angry cause she doesn't feel like being treated equal. But considering she disappeared out of the blue seven years ago. Koto's fear and request are not unreasonable.

There is no evidence so far that Erika knowingly caused Aya to disappear. Even if she wrote down a Tanabata wish to that effect, it would reasonably have been emotional venting, not something she would expect to happen. Even if Erika turns out to have caused Aya's disappearance somehow, it is unlikely she is morally responsible for it.

Yeah. So what? Erika still suck as a friend. How many people in real life would go fight their friend for daring to accept their crush's confession?

It's hilarious that people think Erika did something horrible that night at the festival when she's the one who brought it up, with a tone suggestion she feels awkward or embarrassed, not guilty or ashamed.

She's obviously more curious about Aya's disappearance at that moment. And the reason she's not feeling guilty or ashamed is because the conversation they had on Tanabata festival was not the one (unpleasant confrontation) which result in Aya's disappearance.

If anyone has ever paid their attention, they would notice the day of Tanabata festival is Saturday, the day students don't need to go to school. Then why Aya shows up (chapter 1) with her uniform on and holding her schoolbag? Because she got spirited away a day before the festival. In chapter 17, sb's (aka fucking Erika) flashback, Aya also was wearing uniform while sb's on her PE uniform.

Don't even know the Aya Erika had talked with on Tanabata day is real Aya or the Aya who has time traveled again.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 10:56AM

It's hilarious that people think Erika did something horrible that night at the festival when she's the one who brought it up, with a tone suggestion she feels awkward or embarrassed, not guilty or ashamed.

She's obviously more curious about Aya's disappearance at that moment. And the reason she's not feeling guilty or ashamed is because the conversation they had on Tanabata festival was not the one (unpleasant confrontation) which result in Aya's disappearance.

If anyone has ever paid their attention, they would notice the day of Tanabata festival is Saturday, the day students don't need to go to school. Then why Aya shows up (chapter 1) with her uniform on and holding her schoolbag? Because she got spirited away a day before the festival. In chapter 17, sb's (aka fucking Erika) flashback, Aya also was wearing uniform while sb's on her PE uniform.

Don't even know the Aya Erika had talked with on Tanabata day is real Aya or the Aya who has time traveled again.

I have to say your observation is brilliant, at least better than half of the people on this forum. Well, it would be more convincing if you didn't hate Erika this much.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 11:30AM

Aya is her financially dependent and underage girlfriend living with her. Making a request like that is pretty creepy at least, which is why Aya left.

I can see Aya gets angry cause she doesn't feel like being treated equal. But considering she disappeared out of the blue seven years ago. Koto's fear and request are not unreasonable.

There is no evidence so far that Erika knowingly caused Aya to disappear. Even if she wrote down a Tanabata wish to that effect, it would reasonably have been emotional venting, not something she would expect to happen. Even if Erika turns out to have caused Aya's disappearance somehow, it is unlikely she is morally responsible for it.

Yeah. So what? Erika still suck as a friend. How many people in real life would go fight their friend for daring to accept their crush's confession?

It's hilarious that people think Erika did something horrible that night at the festival when she's the one who brought it up, with a tone suggestion she feels awkward or embarrassed, not guilty or ashamed.

She's obviously more curious about Aya's disappearance at that moment. And the reason she's not feeling guilty or ashamed is because the conversation they had on Tanabata festival was not the one (unpleasant confrontation) which result in Aya's disappearance.

If anyone has ever paid their attention, they would notice the day of Tanabata festival is Saturday, the day students don't need to go to school. Then why Aya shows up (chapter 1) with her uniform on and holding her schoolbag? Because she got spirited away a day before the festival. In chapter 17, sb's (aka fucking Erika) flashback, Aya also was wearing uniform while sb's on her PE uniform.

Don't even know the Aya Erika had talked with on Tanabata day is real Aya or the Aya who has time traveled again.

1) we don't know the conversation was Erika yelling at Aya. An equally likely emotional conversation: Aya confessing about her desire to run away/disappear in spite of her relationship with Koto.
2) Japanese schools do have class on Saturday, and especially club activities. They got rid of it around 2000, but then brought it back a decade later. And we know Aya was in a club back then, they all were.

edit: to expand on 1, Koto said Aya promised to take her with if she ever ran away from home, but did Koto ever have or express a desire herself to run away? Was there anything about her life at 14 she disliked, other than the possibility of Aya leaving her behind? If what Koto was saying was "I'll throw away my good life to be a homeless child with you," I can imagine Aya feeling incredibly conflicted and probably guilty over it, and wanting advice. Who would she go to for that advice but Erika? And if Aya said to Erika "That girl you like wants me to take her away and be homeless together but like she only wants it to be with me I think, not because her home life is bad, so I'm really reluctant to do that, what do you think Erika?" how would she respond?

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 12:33PM

1) we don't know the conversation was Erika yelling at Aya. An equally likely emotional conversation: Aya confessing about her desire to run away/disappear in spite of her relationship with Koto.

Yeah. The conversation Erika has regret past seven years. Very persuasive.

2) Japanese schools do have class on Saturday, and especially club activities. And we know Aya was in a club back then, they all were.

Can't believe l really have to explain this lol. Man. I don't want to sound like mean. But you should have taken lessons in logic. Koto was in same class, same club as Aya and Erika. Even if that's the case (they had class or club activities on the day of festival lol), why she didn't get to see Aya on that day. She thinks Aya got spirited away a day before Tanabata festival.

edit: to expand on 1, Koto said Aya promised to take her with if she ever ran away from home, but did Koto ever have or express a desire herself to run away? Was there anything about her life at 14 she disliked, other than the possibility of Aya leaving her behind? If what Koto was saying was "I'll throw away my good life to be a homeless child with you," I can imagine Aya feeling incredibly conflicted and probably guilty over it, and wanting advice. Who would she go to for that advice but Erika? And if Aya said to Erika "That girl you like wants me to take her away and be homeless together but like she only wants it to be with me I think, not because her home life is bad, so I'm really reluctant to do that, what do you think Erika?" how would she respond?

LOL
Aya doesn't even have a chance getting to know coward Erika's unrequited love. Cause Erika literally did nothing when Koto was chasing after Aya. It must be Erika confessing her feelings towards Koto to Aya (lol), no other way around.

I'm not saying Aya would go to Erika's advice because of her crush on Koto. Aya would go to Erika for advice, as we've seen her do multiple times already, because they're friends.

Castles in the air never run out of construction materials—because they consist of nothing substantial.

When Aya returns, she thinks it’s the day before the Tanabata festival, but Erika seems to remember a conversation with Aya the night of the festival. And then Aya seems to get a flash of such a memory too. So one or both of the characters have incomplete or incorrect memories. That’s what we know.

And as to all this blather about Erika’s guilt: as has been pointed out many times before, it seems likely that Erika did have some kind of negative thoughts about Aya and/or such an encounter with Aya after Erika saw Koto kiss Aya. Then Aya disappeared. For all anyone knew for seven years, the most likely explanation was that Aya had been abducted and murdered. So it’s completely natural that Erika would feel bad about how she and Aya parted ways. Asserting that the only explanation for Erika's feelings must be because she did or said something dire to Aya is, as usual with this person, entirely unsupported.

I can see Aya gets angry cause she doesn't feel like being treated equal. But considering she disappeared out of the blue seven years ago. Koto's fear and request are not unreasonable.

The request might be understandable, in a psychological sense, but it is completely unreasonable. Nearly abusive, even. "Give up your dreams and obvious desire to grow and be independent, to stay home and isolated so I feel safer about you."

It's not even particularly rational from a fear perspective; since they have literally no idea how Aya disappeared in the first place, they have no reason to think staying home will keep her safer from disappearing again than anything else she might do.

I'm not saying Aya would go to Erika's advice because of her crush on Koto. Aya would go to Erika for advice, as we've seen her do multiple times already, because they're friends.

Yeah.
The only time Aya went to Erika for advice was chapter 9 but which, merely because she thinks Erika has a lot of experience regarding this kind of affairs.
Who in the world would want to ask advice from a friend who is far more childish than you when you intended to run away from home???

Castles in the air never run out of construction materials—because they consist of nothing substantial.

Only because you lack this kind of abilities (detect obvious hints all over the ground etc) doesn't mean others have to give up their talent ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

When Aya returns, she thinks it’s the day before the Tanabata festival, but Erika seems to remember a conversation with Aya the night of the festival. And then Aya seems to get a flash of such a memory too. So one or both of the characters have incomplete or incorrect memories. That’s what we know.

LOL
As l said before, Aya returned with her uniform on because of the day she got spirited away is not Tanabata festival (Saturday).
There's two conversation for sure.
No.1: an unpleasant confrontation Erika had with Aya before Tanabata day due to they both having their uniform on (chapter 13, chapter 17).
No.2: the day of Tanabata day. But we don't even know that's real Aya or the Aya who has time traveled again.

From Erika's perspective, the No.2 conversation is the last time she saw Aya before the disappearance.

And it's pretty obvious Aya is the one who has incomplete memories due to her supernatural encounter (chapter 13).
@Gabinomicon
You can see Erika doesn't even want to face the reality she had that No.1 conversation with Aya lol.

And as to all this blather about Erika’s guilt: as has been pointed out many times before, it seems likely that Erika did have some kind of negative thoughts about Aya and/or such an encounter with Aya after Erika saw Koto kiss Aya.
Then Aya disappeared. For all anyone knew for seven years, the most likely explanation was that Aya had been abducted and murdered. So it’s completely natural that Erika would feel bad about how she and Aya parted ways. Asserting that the only explanation for Erika's feelings must be because she did or said something dire to Aya is, as usual with this person, entirely unsupported.

Then why she still feels guilt after Aya came back. It just doesn't make sense.

The request might be understandable, in a psychological sense, but it is completely unreasonable. Nearly abusive, even. "Give up your dreams and obvious desire to grow and be independent, to stay home and isolated so I feel safer about you."

It's not even particularly rational from a fear perspective; since they have literally no idea how Aya disappeared in the first place, they have no reason to think staying home will keep her safer from disappearing again than anything else she might do.

She apparently can't be rational due to her trauma lol.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 7:28PM

Only because you lack this kind of abilities (detect obvious hints all over the ground etc) doesn't mean others have to give up their talent ┑(￣Д ￣)┍

It’s quite remarkable that a person who reveals themselves over and over to be ignorant of the most basic principles of textual interpretation has such an inflated opinion of their own abilities.

Or maybe that’s exactly what should be expected.

Maybe someday people on internet forums will be as Aya to each other as Aya is to Koto and Erika.

Though yeah, I do think Erika likely did something bad, given how guilty she is. She doesn't seem like someone who would hardcore blame and punish herself like that for so long for no reason. She's also likely missing information, so it may not be as bad as she thinks, but likely still bad enough to be interesting.

A lot of her "selfish" behavior as an adult is actually pretty reasonable (eg, an adult dating a child is probably a bad idea and something to discourage, it's good to help Aya adjust and make new connections, etc). Even if she has ulterior motives, that's not a reason for her to not do the right thing. We won't really know about her current ethicality until that comes into conflict with her ulterior motives. At that point she'll have to pick one to prioritize, which is when we will see her true colors.

I've said already that I think her true goal is healing Koto and that she doesn't feel like she deserves to even consider dating someone else while Koto is like this. Normally you would move on after that long, no matter how much you liked someone as a kid. Her sense of guilt is the only explanation we currently have for why she hasn't. Even if it turns out to be something else, the author is a good enough writer that there is likely some explanation other than Erika just sucking.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 8:31PM

I've said already that I think her true goal is healing Koto and that she doesn't feel like she deserves to even consider dating someone else while Koto is like this. Normally you would move on after that long, no matter how much you liked someone as a kid.

Insofar as that last sentence is true (and it probably is), wouldn’t that be exponentially even more true of Koto? Again, as far as anyone knows, after Aya disappears without a trace, she’s most likely never coming back. I suppose there’s a way to see Koto’s carrying a torch for the missing Aya as something like the way the parents of kidnap/murder find it impossible to move on emotionally. That’s a pretty extreme fetishization of early-teen “first love,” though.

Another way to read Erika’s attitude is that she knows there’s no possibility of a romantic relationship as long as there’s an Aya-shaped hole in Koto’s heart, rather than it being about her feelings of “deserving” Koto’s love.

Yeah, Koto and Erika are similar in that way. The difference is that for Koto it happened with no explanation, so she doesn't blame herself like Erika does. That's why she attempted to date other people. The shock of suddenly losing Aya still made it too hard for her to move on or feel comfortable with any other person, which she likely wouldn't if Aya had broken up with her instead.

"Another way to read Erika’s attitude is that she knows there’s no possibility of a romantic relationship as long as there’s an Aya-shaped hole in Koto’s heart, rather than it being about her feelings of “deserving” Koto’s love."

We do know this is part of her motivation since she essentially said it, but, if she didn't blame herself for Koto's situation, it would still be far easier to find someone else who she wouldn't have this issue with. If Erika subconsciously feels like she can't go off and be happy with someone else while Koto is traumatized then this explains not moving on very well.

If Koto eg was in a happy and fulfilling relationship that led to marriage then I don't think Erika would be hanging around waiting for an unlikely divorce, but her emotions are trapped 7 years ago because Koto's are. Ultimately we will need more chapters before we know if I'm right about this, of course.

last edited at Dec 23, 2024 9:38PM

Then why she still feels guilt after Aya came back. It just doesn't make sense.

Because Erika has shitty self esteem and beats herself up for because every thought she has. From the very beginning of the Erika hate in this thread it's been driven by people reading Erika's negative self hating intrusive thoughts and assuming they're factual statements instead of distortions caused by her bad self esteem and depression. Ffs one of the things Erika feels guilty about, completely inappropriately, is her acting and modeling, because she's gotten that seven year "head start" on her former rival that the competition is over. Even though the alternative would be Erika completely shutting down and doing nothing for seven years, an absurd standard to judge yourself against.

Here's a fun experiment: clear your mind, and reread the manga. Every time you get to Erika thinking to herself, skip it instead of reading. Just look at what other characters think and say about her, and her actions and expressions without paying attention to her thoughts. She still comes across as depressed but otherwise just a good friend, always down to help her friends even if she grumbles a bit while doing it. She looks a lot like Natsumi, Akari's girlfriend in Otherside Picnic.

Even if it turns out to be something else, the author is a good enough writer that there is likely some explanation other than Erika just sucking.

Erika is already suck as hell considering she can't give her approval towards her two best friends relationship. Not only that, she went fighting Aya for daring to accept Koto's confession while she did nothing to tell Koto her feeling, showing she's biggest jerk as their friend. Ofc, there would be explanations from the author telling us Erika is a normal human being thus making mistakes lol. I think l will not be surprised. Just hope one day Koto and Aya can cut off this selfish snake.

Because Erika has shitty self esteem and beats herself up for because every thought she has. From the very beginning of the Erika hate in this thread it's been driven by people reading Erika's negative self hating intrusive thoughts and assuming they're factual statements instead of distortions caused by her bad self esteem and depression.

You are pretty Koto hate to me in case you didn't know lol.

Ffs one of the things Erika feels guilty about, completely inappropriately, is her acting and modeling, because she's gotten that seven year "head start" on her former rival that the competition is over. Even though the alternative would be Erika completely shutting down and doing nothing for seven years, an absurd standard to judge yourself against.

Yeah. It just took her seven years to finally want Aya to come back. Ofc she feels she's gotten that seven year "head start" on her former rival.
LOL at competition is over.
Well, the competition really ever get to start?
Erika never thinks she can ever beat Aya at acting, which is true cause she nearly panic (lol) when she stands on the same stage as Aya (chapter 17).
Not to mention Koto doesn't even pay attention (or just doesn't care) for why her childhood friend never has a relationship in those seven years. Do you think there's a possibility Koto would choose Erika over Aya???

You know what? Erika obviously thought Koto would eventually love her back if not for Aya's existence. Just like people who would choose to fight their crush's lover. "uh but I liked them first ". Bah, who cares? Liked them first and did nothing. Only had magical thinking of "one day she will fall for me!". The truth is, she won't.

Here's a fun experiment: clear your mind, and reread the manga. Every time you get to Erika thinking to herself, skip it instead of reading. Just look at what other characters think and say about her, and her actions and expressions without paying attention to her thoughts. She still comes across as depressed but otherwise just a good friend, always down to help her friends even if she grumbles a bit while doing it. She looks a lot like Natsumi, Akari's girlfriend in Otherside Picnic.

You just got to admit the way Erika react towards Aya is really creepy (first third of chapter 13) even without knowing her internal thoughts and hidden agenda.