The more I think about it, it does seem that Shiho has something like an incel mindset. She had feelings for Aki. Aki was treating her normally, and Shiho felt that she was entitled to more.

All Shiho asked was not to be forced to remain next to the girl that didn't love her back.

This is patently false—Shiho didn’t ask anything of Aki, because she never communicated anything at all except that she was quitting the band and didn’t want to be around them anymore.

She was in the wrong for trying to force Shiho into a friendship that she didn't want and hurt her.

And I agree with the author that Aki was wrong, because I did the same when I was a teenager and I regret it.

Blastaar claiming that this is a reversal of responsibility is, quite frankly, shocking.

How many times does it have to be said that Aki had no way of knowing that she “hurt” Shiho because Shiho never told her anything about it.

This is all straight-up victim-blaming. Aki isn’t a mind-reader, so her so-called “responsibility” is entirely imaginary.

Oh boy, what's in store for us next? It's been years since the last arc change so I'm actually shocked we're finally almost over this arc LOL.

Victim-blaming ? Victim of what ? Of someone not wanting to be her friend ? If someone says they don't want to be friend to you, they are required to pour out their personal feelings first, otherwise you have a right to harass them every day to come back to you ? That's exactly the incel mindset icekatze was talking about.

Shiho made her wish to remain away from Aki clear, unequivocally and repeatedly. She didn't state her reason and didn't have any obligation to - not being friends with Aki, because she didn't want to be, was well within her rights.

And obviously, stating her reasons would just have made things worse for Aki - she'd have felt responsible for Shiho leaving and pressured to do something about it, at a time when she still had strong feelings for Yori.

The more I think about it, it does seem that Shiho has something like an incel mindset. She had feelings for Aki. Aki was treating her normally, and Shiho felt that she was entitled to more.

All Shiho asked was not to be forced to remain next to the girl that didn't love her back.

This is patently false—Shiho didn’t ask anything of Aki, because she never communicated anything at all except that she was quitting the band and didn’t want to be around them anymore.

She was in the wrong for trying to force Shiho into a friendship that she didn't want and hurt her.

And I agree with the author that Aki was wrong, because I did the same when I was a teenager and I regret it.

Blastaar claiming that this is a reversal of responsibility is, quite frankly, shocking.

How many times does it have to be said that Aki had no way of knowing that she “hurt” Shiho because Shiho never told her anything about it.

This is all straight-up victim-blaming. Aki isn’t a mind-reader, so her so-called “responsibility” is entirely imaginary.

To add to that, Shiho's refusal to communicate straight up hurt Aki. Aki was not trying to "force" Shiho into anything, she was understandably hurt from Shiho just walking out of her life and wanted to know why, that is not her fault. Trying to blame Aki only makes sense if there had been some kind of talk between them beforehand where Shiho clearly stated her issues (and even then it would be shaky at best).

Apart from that, Shiho did not just solemny distance herself, she went out of her way to antagonize Yori (which is incredibly petty) and use Himawari for it. She did plenty wrong, and from her own expressions and dialogue, was extremely bitter about the whole thing, lashing out at everyone, even people not involved in the slightest. That is were the pretty accurate Incel comparisons come from.

Victim-blaming ? Victim of what ? Of someone not wanting to be her friend ? If someone says they don't want to be friend to you, they are required to pour out their personal feelings first, otherwise you have a right to harass them every day to come back to you ? That's exactly the incel mindset icekatze was talking about.

Shiho made her wish to remain away from Aki clear, unequivocally and repeatedly. She didn't state her reason and didn't have any obligation to - not being friends with Aki, because she didn't want to be, was well within her rights.

And obviously, stating her reasons would just have made things worse for Aki - she'd have felt responsible for Shiho leaving and pressured to do something about it, at a time when she still had strong feelings for Yori.

Not just "not wanting to be her friend", aprubtly and without reason ending an existing friendship, which is way worse. Being friends for a longer time, you are damn well obligated to tell people why you don't want to be friends anymore. Not doing so risks emotionally hurting them and is near abusive.

And don't try to pass this off as a noble sacrifice Shiho is doing to protect Aki, her dialogue is even color-coded in this latest chapter to show she still resented Aki for what happened.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 6:39PM

Victim-blaming ? Victim of what ? Of someone not wanting to be her friend ? If someone says they don't want to be friend to you, they are required to pour out their personal feelings first, otherwise you have a right to harass them every day to come back to you ?

This is quite a distorted straw-man argument. “Saying why” (even if it’s just an excuse) is not the same as “being required to pour out your feelings.”

So in your world, when people who are friends suddenly declare they’re no longer friends but refuse to say why, the normal thing to do is to shrug and say, “Well, that’s that.” And to try and make up with such a (former) friend is an ethical violation. A novel view of interpersonal relations, I must say.

I realize that it happened, like, years ago at this point, but I can go back and pick a random chapter from the beginning of this arc and read pages where Shiho insults, gaslights, and belittles Aki; trying to make her feel regret and damage her friendships with others in the band.

So this one is gonna get an anime? Allow me to interrupt the fascinating discussion about side characters motivation by mentioning how cool it WILL be to hear in real life the actually good part of this manga, Yori's song of chapter 15, song which that utter maniac of Takeshima Eku actually wrote.
Yeah, more excited about that, that about all the drama of whatever-her-name with whatever-else-her-other-name.

Edit to use positive, affirmative language. This. WILL. Happen.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 7:09PM

Is distancing yourself from a friend over an unrequited love really that crazy to some of you? I'm not saying that she couldn't have acted differently, but the more I think about it, the less reasons I find to blame her for her behavior.

Shiho suffered as much, if not more, than Aki.

The first couple was fine, but I couldn't describe it as more than a nice yuri romance, although that's still praise. The way the second couple was written, developed, and the source of their conflicts felt far more real, unique and significant, and elevates this far beyond just "one more romance story".

I agree, and a couple of months ago I wrote something along those lines: While I used to like the series before, since her appearance it has become something more special and unique. I guess at first was mainly because she was a disruptive character in a otherwise much more predictable and formulaic story. But then little by little that changed, to the point that I began to be more interested in Shiho and her (and Aki's) story than any other aspect of the series. By this point, when I think of the manga, the first thing that comes to mind is her.

Until the next time Shiho wants something Aki cannot give or does not know about. Since Shiho did not change, I see no reason to assume it is gonna go differently the next time.

Being willing to start over with Aki is definitely a change on her part. And a pretty big one.

Victim-blaming ? Victim of what ? Of someone not wanting to be her friend ? If someone says they don't want to be friend to you, they are required to pour out their personal feelings first, otherwise you have a right to harass them every day to come back to you ?

This is quite a distorted straw-man argument. “Saying why” (even if it’s just an excuse) is not the same as “being required to pour out your feelings.”

So in your world, when people who are friends suddenly declare they’re no longer friends but refuse to say why, the normal thing to do is to shrug and say, “Well, that’s that.” And to try and make up with such a (former) friend is an ethical violation. A novel view of interpersonal relations, I must say.

Not only the mental gymnastics are amazing but the selective memory is also in another level with the shiho fans, it's just hilarious that people are trying to blame aki of anything when in reality aki did gave shiho space, as the mature person she is, she accepted shiho s childish tantrum and kept on with her life and band activities. Shit really went south when himari intervene and tried to forced a reconciliation and even at that point aki always acted mature and never tried to force anything out of shiho
It also hilarious that people were lika nah bruh the shiho character development is coming there's no way Takeshima eku will just put everything on aki and call it a day. And when Takeshima eku did just that as I predict they just went "actually it was aki s fault all along"
Nostrabenja back at it again

Is distancing yourself from a friend over an unrequited love really that crazy to some of you? I'm not saying that she couldn't have acted differently, but the more I think about it, the less reasons I find to blame her for her behavior.

Fortunately, few people have been questioning the basic concept of distancing oneself from an unrequited love—that is not all the “behavior” that is regarded as problematical.

Leaving the band and dropping her friends without even giving an excuse, then fomenting hostility within her old band and between the two bands—that “behavior” is an entirely different matter.

Yes, she “could” have handled all that differently, but she didn’t.

Not only the mental gymnastics are amazing but the selective memory is also in another level with the shiho fans, it's just hilarious that people are trying to blame aki of anything when in reality aki did gave shiho space, as the mature person she is, she accepted shiho s childish tantrum and kept on with her life and band activities. Shit really went south when himari intervene and tried to forced a reconciliation and even at that point aki always acted mature and never tried to force anything out of shiho

I really don't think the point of this arc is to blame either of them. However, Aki and Hima did indeed push this confrontation onto Shiho. Their first meeting was random (Aki and Shiho did not know they would be in the same event), then Aki pushed her questions (which she has a right to do). Aki was the one to introduce and challenge Shiho to this battle of the bands. Hima was the one to trick them into meeting for lunch and work behind the scenes for them to meet (once again tricking Shiho to go). Shiho also was not bad to Hima and certainly did not "go out of her way to antagonize Yori by involving Hima." Aki repeatedly expressed her desires not to be involved with Shiho and was shown on multiple occasions to avoid them. She did not care about Aki's band until Aki challenged her to the battle. I'm not sure that her actions could be described as "fomenting hostility." Her band had no hostility. She kept that to herself (meaning coming from herself) and at most wanted them to win the battle. She had two moments where she involved Hima, one coming after Aki pushed the battle of the bands idea, and the other at the festival. Both times she immediately apologized for getting caught up in the moment. Beyond that she did not do much and showed far more moments of friendship and genuine closeness with Hima, closeness which Hima reciprocated. Shiho also admitted her faults to Hima and accepted her responsibility for not ending things properly, to Hima. When she finally decided to end things right, Hima and Aki again pushed against that desire (once again tricking Shiho to meet them), eventually leading to this chapter. There's a couple narrative and thematic reasons for this constant pulling (or "saving") of Aki back into the fold by Hima and Shiho but that's a whole different thing. The way Shiho is discussed is beyond the pale compared to what she actually does in the series. I almost think people have forgotten the sequence of events because its been so long. "Incel behavior" is out of this world. Either way, blame, again is not really a useful lens to look through here. The fixation with that is really messing up any useful discussion and I do not think the author intended for that to be what you get out of this (and that may be what separates our ability to enjoy this arc) but we obviously disagree.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 8:28PM

However, Aki and Hima did indeed push this confrontation onto Shio. Their first meeting was random (Aki and Shiho did not know they would be in the same event), then Aki pushed her questions (which she has a right to do). Aki was the one to introduce and challenge Shiho to this battle of the bands. Hima was the one to trick them into meeting for lunch and work behind the scenes for them to meet (once again tricking Shiho to go).

Maybe I'm misremembering but I'm pretty sure aki didn't force the battle of the bands as a means to get an answer out of shiho, iirc shiho as usual started to antagonize sunny spot and belittle them as an inferior band and in the heat of the moment aki challenged her. Himawari clearly overstepped in this situation but trying to paint the situation as aki "pushing a reconciliation" is simply not true

Shiho also was not bad to Hima and certainly did not go out of her to antagonize Yori by involving Hima.

Did she not tho? I'm pretty sure there's even a chapter when hima has to step up to confront shiho because she simply won't shut up about how he's better than yori and how she will beat Sunny spot

Either way, blame, again is not really a useful lens to look through here. The fixation with that is really messing up any useful discussion and I do not think the author intended for that to be what you get out of this (and that may be what separates our ability to enjoy this arc) but we obviously disagree.

If the latest chapter weren't about whose fault was, why there's such an emphasis on aki realizing her "mistakes" and her apologies to shiho in the form of her song

I'm not sure that her actions could be described as "fomenting hostility."

Go back and read Chapter 20 again, before the battle of the bands proposal was even made. Shiho approaches Aki and makes demands that Aki renounce her own band and friends. Chapter 21, again before the bet is made, Shiho is insulting Aki and her friends. Aki tries to be polite, and Shiho literally grabs her by the collar and yells in her face.

Maybe I'm misremembering but I'm pretty sure aki didn't force the battle of the bands as a means to get an answer out of shiho, iirc shiho as usual started to antagonize sunny spot and belittle them as an inferior band and in the heat of the moment aki challenged her. Himawari clearly overstepped in this situation but trying to paint the situation as aki "pushing a reconciliation" is simply not true

You are misremembering. I can give you the chapter if you want. Aki literally introduced the battle in order to make Shiho promise that if Aki could win, Shiho would reveal why she left the band. That was the entire reason. She talks with her band and with Yori right before doing this. In fact, that happens right after Shiho is again snuck up on by Aki in a hallway. Also Hima specifically and deliberately discusses her plans to force reconciliation. She literally talks about this on numerous occasions.

Did she not tho? I'm pretty sure there's even a chapter when hima has to step up to confront shiho because she simply won't shut up about how he's better than yori and how she will beat Sunny spot.

Yes, Shiho makes some comments about Yori in an effort to tick off Aki (and of course her own insecurity). There was not a whole chapter about this at all. It was a moment at the end of a chapter. Hima confronted her about it and Shiho genuinly apologized and explained why she feels that way and where it comes from. That was when Shiho then confides in Hima and reveals that she had loved Aki in the past, again to Hima. If you'd call that some concerted effort to antagonize Yori with Hima, then fine. We'd have to disagree.

If the latest chapter weren't about whose fault was, why there's such an emphasis on aki realizing her "mistakes" and her apologies to shiho in the form of her song

Because Aki is a character/person just like Shiho is, and they will rationalize their situations using that language. Shiho also blames herself and admits her culpability to Hima in an earlier chapter. The latest chapter is about their reconciliation and overcoming their obstacles whether self-made, products of their past, or their circumstances. There was a reason Shiho saw the ghost of her dead "rival," before fully giving in. It was about Aki saving Shiho from herself and her destructive isolation but also Aki (inadvertently through the help of Shiho) fully embracing a life free of her unrequited love (which she already realized was dead, a few chapters ago).

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 9:13PM

You are misremembering. Aki literally introduced the battle in order to make Shiho promise that if Aki could win, Shiho would reveal why she left the band. That was the entire reason. In fact, that happens right after Shiho is again snuck up on by Aki in a hallway.

Yeah my b shiho belittling aki and her friends and regarding them as low level band were all different instances but I guess is justified because she is oh so hurt by aki

Yes, Shiho makes some comments about Yori in an effort to tick off Aki (and of course her own insecurity). There was not a whole chapter about this at all. It was a moment at the end of a chapter. Hima confronted her about it and Shiho genuinly apologized and explained why she feels that way and where it comes from. That was when Shiho then confides in Hima and reveals that she had loved Aki in the past, again to Hima. If you'd call that some concerted effort to antagonize Yori with Hima, then fine. We'd have to disagree.

Nop she indeed throws shade at yori in order to tick off aki but in the festival chapter she just keeps bad mouthing yori in front of her girlfriend wich lead to hima stepping up, she does apologizes for that but let's not forget that when she notices yori jealousy she looks at her and gives a smug look, if that's not antagonizing yori by using hima I guess we'll just have to disagree indeed

Because Aki is a character just like Shiho is, and they will rationalize their situations using that language. Shiho also blames herself and admits her culpability to Hima in an earlier chapter. The latest chapter is about their reconciliation and overcoming their obstacles whether self-made, products of their past or their circumstances.

Shiho didn't actually overcame anything, she literally just ironed her will to be alone and throw aki aside just to literally be dragged by hima and then aki did literally everything to save that relationship
Shiho is not sorry for being rude to her friend she's sorry for not being able to throw them off completely. She hasn't and probably never apologize for all the times she called them and inferior band and other instances of her being a complete ass

it was about Aki saving Shiho from herself and her destructive isolation but also Aki fully embracing a life free of her unrequited love (which she already realized was dead, a few chapters ago).

Yeah I can certainly agree with that, this arc truly was about aki going head first into the mud that is dealing with shiho, to drag her out even is she didn't deserve it, truly cementing her as the best character of this manga

Nop she indeed throws shade at yori in order to tick off aki but in the festival chapter she just keeps bad mouthing yori in front of her girlfriend wich lead to hima stepping up, she does apologizes for that but let's not forget that when she notices yori jealousy she looks at her and gives a smug look, if that's not antagonizing yori by using hima I guess we'll just have to disagree indeed

You're mixing up events. Those things did not happen together or back to back. Those were chapters apart, not all at one event (on completely different days). Also the "glance" was just that, a glance after Shiho ran into them during the festival at night. She glanced at Yori as she left Yori and Hima to themselves because she saw Yori watching how friendly she and Hima had become (since she was their manager). That chapter was all about Yori's insecurities. Also she is not really being rude at the moment Hima "steps up." They are at school, not the festival. After seeing Hima light up from Yori's text, she says "What do you like about her anyway...your senpai is a wonderful person to you, maybe." Not nice but not some major attack, more an acknowledgement that she views Yori differently because of her past (and clearly resentment because of her past etc). That is what prompts Hima (who had already been wondering why Shiho also disliked Yori) to finally ask where that was coming from. Shiho apologizes for saying that in front of Hima, not for disliking Yori. Shiho obviously dislikes Yori, that is not in dispute. And lastly, the original comment discussed some effort to mess with Yori by using Hima. That is what I responded to anyway. "Using Hima" only happened with that quick glance. That's it. Otherwise she genuinely liked Hima and loved having her around.

Shiho didn't actually overcame anything, she literally just ironed her will to be alone and throw aki aside just to literally be dragged by hima and then aki did literally everything to save that relationship
Shiho is not sorry for being rude to her friend she's sorry for not being able to throw them off completely. She hasn't and probably never apologize for all the times she called them and inferior band and other instances of her being a complete ass.....Yeah I can certainly agree with that, this arc truly was about aki going head first into the mud that is dealing with shiho, to drag her out even is she didn't deserve it, truly cementing her as the best character of this manga

If that's how you want to continue to view it (blame, deserve), that's your right. We obviously are focused on different things.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 9:52PM

I would just like to thank Bielna, SrNevik and Kabu for fighting the good fight. I always like to look at the comments on chapters I'm very happy with because it always amazes me how people always find reasons to hate it and call it bad writing.

I never would have ever interpreted Shiho's actions as her feeling 'entitled to more' from Aki, or that this outcome was the author blaming either of these characters for everything. As stated before, the story isn't even about blame, but regardless I don't think anybody is really to blame here. They are all understandable in where they are coming from; Shiho distancing herself and lashing out due to her heartache, Aki wanting better answers and understanding, and even Hima-- who as SrNevik pointed out, pushed them together because she was friends with them and didn't understand why they wouldn't get along with each other because she thinks they are both great people.

People keep saying it's Shiho's fault for not giving a reason for distancing herself... but she did? She expresses multiple times (in what people describe as antagonizing the band) that she thinks they are low level and she's better than them. That's her excuse, that the SS Girls weren't serious enough and she's too good for them. Aki doesn't accept that later, which she's right obviously, that wasn't really the reason, but it's still a solid reason and why she's fallen out with bands before.

Now, I won't argue that Shiho didn't do anything wrong, but it is understandable. She is hostile about Yori and Aki obviously because of her jealously and heartache respectively. She doesn't want Aki to 'renounce her band and friends', she really just wants Aki to say she's better than Yori, in some way. She can't beat Yori for Aki's heart so she wants to beat her in singing, and when Aki won't even give her that, yeah she gets upset and "yells in her face" (I wouldn't really describe that scene that way but whatever, I guess so).

If you just don't like characters who ever say a single mean thing when they are upset, then I guess there's no helping not liking Shiho, but still. I would have thought people would at least be grateful all the drama is not happening with the main, wholesome pairing, but no. People always want to complain, so they complain that the series is too long and should have ended. I guess the author should have done what Bloom Into You did with Sayaka and just made a different series for Aki's story.

Also, someone said the author made Aki "commit character assassination" because she "magically" isn't in love with Yori anymore, and I also disagree with that. I don't think this was very sudden, although it may seem like that to people. I think Aki let go of her romantic feelings for Yori when she accepted Hima and Yori were together and in love with each other, she just didn't know it at the time. I also think there's an argument that Aki never really had true romantic feelings for Yori, and they were more akin to a fan infatuation with a celebrity, but I digress.

It just always amazes me how unsympathetic and/or empathetic people can be.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 10:35PM

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHA

Fuck this series. The writer’s brain needs to be studied because science can weaponize this level of fucking stupid. A child could write a story with less predictability/cliches. This story is a disgrace

Basically, the whole story peaked at chapter 15 (because cliches are tools, and can be used right... or not), and from that inwards has been a trainwreck. Let's just hope the anime stops at that chapter.

People keep saying it's Shiho's fault for not giving a reason for distancing herself... but she did? She expresses multiple times (in what people describe as antagonizing the band) that she thinks they are low level and she's better than them. That's her excuse, that the SS Girls weren't serious enough and she's too good for them. Aki doesn't accept that later, which she's right obviously, that wasn't really the reason, but it's still a solid reason and why she's fallen out with bands before.

Good point. I never got around to mentioning that she did indeed give her reasons. Reasons that the rest of the band accepted (and verbally accepted) but Aki did not. Aki this time showed an increased awareness for Shiho's feeling that she didn't have when she was fixated on Yori back then. That could be an interesting thing to discuss when thinking about how long she had actually moved on from that infatuation. The hand holding a couple chapters ago was her final moment of recognizing her crush was over. And in that moment she says something that implies she'd already known her love was over, even before the handshake test. So it was over a while before this chapter and that was hinted at (pretty bluntly) chapters ago.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 10:11PM

Go back and read Chapter 20 again, before the battle of the bands proposal was even made. Shiho approaches Aki and makes demands that Aki renounce her own band and friends. Chapter 21, again before the bet is made, Shiho is insulting Aki and her friends. Aki tries to be polite, and Shiho literally grabs her by the collar and yells in her face.

What are you talking about? In Chapter 20 all that Shiho wanted was for Aki to admit that she was a better singer/performer than Yori. And in Chapter 21 she grabs Aki by the collar after hearing her say that she "loves Yori's singing and that that opinion will never change".

Shiho has actually always been very nice while she's hanging out with Momoka and Hajime, or when interacting with Himari alone, except for that chapter at the studio when she got angry for a moment with her because of how happy she looked chatting with Yori, something for which she apologized a second later.

It's hilarious that people think Aki didn't do anything wrong.
All she wants in this arc is to get back with Shiho. However, when Shiho left the band, all Aki did is asking Yori to join the band instead of asking Shiho what's wrong.
That say. If you have a sudden fight with a really close friend, maybe you will not talk to him/her on that day. But after few days calming down and if you still want to be friend with that guy, it's reasonable that you call him/her and say something. But Aki? No she never calls Shiho or says something. I mean, if you really care about Shiho, you should at least do something to be in contact with her instead of finding another person to replace her.
All in all, if Aki doesn't care about Shiho, she did nothing wrong. But if she does care about Shiho and consider her a close friend, she made a big mistake.
Still, Shiho did many things wrong and she has to apology to all people she hurts.

last edited at Jul 21, 2023 10:18PM

Aki this time showed an increased awareness for Shiho's feeling that she didn't have when she was fixated on Yori back then. That could be an interesting thing to discuss when thinking about how long she had actually moved on from that infatuation. The hand holding a couple chapters ago was her final moment of recognizing her crush was over. And in that moment she says something that implies she'd already known her love was over, even before the handshake test. So it was over a while before this chapter and that was hinted at (pretty bluntly) chapters ago.

Oh wow, you're right. I didn't even really realize that, but that backs up my theory that Aki wasn't ever really in love with Yori and maybe when they got closer and she became her friend her feelings kinda changed but she couldn't tell because she still liked her as a friend and admired her as an artist.

It's hilarious that people think Aki didn't do anything wrong.
All she wants in this arc is to get back with Shiho. However, when Shiho left the band, all Aki did is asking Yori to join the band instead of asking Shiho what's wrong.
No she never calls Shiho or says something. I mean, if you really care about Shiho, you should at least do something to be in contact with her instead of finding another person to replace her.
All in all, if Aki doesn't care about Shiho, she did nothing wrong. But if she does care about Shiho and consider her a close friend, she made a big mistake.

Awesome point actually. You're totally right. It must have hurt Shiho a lot to see Aki just replace her, especially with Yori, and those hurt feelings must have contributed to why she's so hostile and wants Aki to say she made a mistake, that she's better than Yori in the band.

Gee, when you stomp off and quit a band it must be incredibly emotionally shattering when you get replaced. Oh, the humanity!

Gee, when you stomp off and quit a band it must be incredibly emotionally shattering when you get replaced. Oh, the humanity!

When the person in question is the girl that your crush is in love with? I'd say so, yeah.

And it's not like they're just having fun together. They're doing it while playing music, so it's doubly hard for Shiho, as we all know how complex her relationship with it has been so far.