Stopped reading so I can binge a few chapters just to be welcomed by another trope. I'll just wait for chapter 24 I think.

Okay okay lol, yes I suppose it's a meta discussion. Irl Ayaka should just stay single and start making some friends, she's obviously not ready to be dating :P
Aside from that, the tittle kinda gives it away. If the tittle was "Ayaka is a lesbian!" or something like that... then I guess she could plausibly end up with Risa since the manga would be about Ayaka's journey and not about her liking Hiroko.
Otherwise yeah, maybe it could work with a full circle of Ayaka and Hiroko getting together then breaking up and Ayaka realizing Risa was her true love all along, of Risa is explored more.
It could work like in the acclaimed novel and movie Call me by Your Name where the main characters have an affair and later break up but in the sequels Elio gets together with other people from what I've heard so it's plausible that by the end of the series Hiroko and Ayaka break up and then there's another series where Ayaka dates Risa like "Ayaka is in love with Risa, Ayaka part 2" lol... But that novel I mentioned is much more realistic and serious in tone than this and while this has its moments it's still very romcom in comparison. It could still work though but I think Ayaka and Hiroko need to get together or hook up for it to be a catalyst or sth. And if the series went like that who's to even say Ayaka will end up with Risa? Maybe she gets together and breaks up with her too XD and it becomes a tragic story of how a messed up love life leads to womanizing so we see her become just like Hiroko in the future.
Anyway I still prefer Hiroko lol.
But what are your ideas of how Ayaka could end up with Risa?

An absolutely monumental miracle setup that defies all odds, followed by the biggest fumble the entire universe has ever seen.
Sappho herself is spinning in her grave fast enough to ignite the surrounding Earth into a cataclysmic wave of lava.

Write clearly. Reread before posting. Mind ambiguity. Remember implied is not the same as stated and context is not the same as text. Don't expect other people to intuit your meanings. Say exactly what you want to say, in no uncertain terms; no more, no less. And if you fail, accept your responsibility; don't throw the blame onto others.

You read my multiple comments and what I was responding to and thought I meant Ayaka didn't like Risa as a friend? There's the responsibility of the writer but also responsibilities of the reader as well. But that's the last I'll say on that. It's become a bit dramatic.

But what are your ideas of how Ayaka could end up with Risa?

I like your ideas actually, if it were to happen. I'm not sure if you're going to get concrete responses to your question though, honestly. The issue is that the manga has 24 chapters and with it's normal pacing, there's not enough time to have two relationships created and one ended within 10 or so chapters. So for those reasons alone I don't see it. But I appreciate the basics of the idea.

Personally, even if the series were longer, I wouldn't see a potential RisaxAyaka for all the in-text reasons I've stayed in my past comments but yeah. I mean even now her being pushed to Risa is because everyone is telling her she should give up. Risa is saying it, Hiroko seems to be pushing her to Risa. This is again a situation where Ayaka's agency is being ignored. She's being tested and at a crossroads. She's said she doesn't want Risa and only wants Hiroko but everyone in the manga (and I guess outside it) is telling her what's best for her.

It's being set up again for Ayaka to scream the title from the hilltops (exclamation point and all) in a defiant, self assertive way. It's character progress or development through an obstinate continuation of the character's journey. Obstacles are telling her what to do and (I think) she will say "No! I know what I want! And I'll get it! Watch me!" The joke is that Hiroko is the mountain she's heroically (sometimes comically) scaling. She's always been tough and determined right? That's part of what makes her endearing.

Anyway, how was "Call me By Your Name" BTW?

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 6:13AM

It's being set up again for Ayaka to scream the title from the hilltops (exclamation point and all) in a defiant, self assertive way. It's character progress or development through an obstinate continuation of the character's journey. Obstacles are telling her what to do and (I think) she will say "No! I know what I want! And I'll get it! Watch me!" The joke is that Hiroko is the mountain she's heroically (sometimes comically) scaling. She's always been tough and determined right? That's part of what makes her endearing.

Anyway, how was "Call me By Your Name" BTW?

For the record, I'm Ayaka×Hiroko all the way XD I'm just trying to wrap my head around how she could plausibly end up with Risa since people like her so much lol but yeah if the series is 24 chapters I don't really see it. Plus there would have needed to be some subtle foreshadowing that Ayaka might have some interest in Risa which... there isn't. Or there should be more characters like in Nagi no Asukara, where it's a huge love polygon or something. Whether that is detrimental to the story or not I'm not sure... personally I didn't love the change in direction so much.
I don't like the trope of character has unrequited love for their friend since forever and gets rewarded at the end. Since it's a friend it usually doesn't make sense that someone would be friends and never realize they are attracted to this person unless it's the first time they experience attraction or are demisexual or sth along those lines that has to be noted in any case. However I thoroughly enjoy unrequited love where one character is unsure about their feelings or has some commitment or other issues preventing them from reciprocating whether there is a happy ending or not.
Basically I asked because I think Ayaka×Risa is a detriment to the overall story so I wonder how people think it could work or still be fulfilling in some way, other than "Hiroko sucks, Risa is best girl" so therefore she should get the girl.
Call me By Your Name arguably has some problematic aspects but I loved it all the same. I don't think it endorses whatever is happening. It's just a story about a young man falling in love with someone older that is arguably not the best for him. I like it because I've liked older people and at the end of the day you grow up and realize that sometimes the age gap is not the best thing in the world.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 8:42AM

Basically I asked because I think Ayaka×Risa is a detriment to the overall story so I wonder how people think it could work or still be fulfilling in some way, other than "Hiroko sucks, Risa is best girl" so therefore she should get the girl.
Call me By Your Name arguably has some problematic aspects but I loved it all the same. I don't think it endorses whatever is happening. It's just a story about a young man falling in love with someone older that is arguably not the best for him. I like it because I've liked older people and at the end of the day you grow up and realize that sometimes the age gap is not the best thing in the world.

Yeah I know your stance I was just interested in your thoughts. And I haven't seen Call Me yet but maybe I should based on your description. I generally agree with your "Hiroko sucks, so Risa" idea. A lot of the times it feels like we're endorsing who we would personally like or date, rather than who the characters have expressed interest or compatibility with. But that's another discussion and people seem extra testy about Risa as it is lol. Thanks for the response.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 8:57AM

Honestly I can't hate Hiroko on this. She actually did the responsible thing. She's her junior. She's 13 years older. Like she's dense but like in real life, this would be a major faux pax and so many people would get sketched out and create a toxic environment due to that level of power.

Where she even says that like 'yeah, I would love to but I can't give you what you want. To be out, happy and in love. Risa on the other hand can'

Talk about meta-discussion: All these people indignant that anyone would dare say that Risa is nicer and they don't like Hiroko. I'm not sure what the problem is with this? It's a valid form of discussion of the story. The notion that a reader might like Risa better doesn't mean that's the only way this story should go. The love triangle is still a part of the story, and therefore still worthy of being discussed.
The MC can get into a relationship with someone the readers disapprove of, and it's okay for the readers to disapprove of it, so I don't get this need to jump on anyone who expresses that sentiment.

Guess this is par for the weird Dynasty discussions course though. Sometimes people get hung up on the weirdest things. You'd think it'd be Team Risa who were upset because the story is already set, but it's actually Team Hiroko that are upset that other commenters think she's trash.

ah Risa, you really deserved the W but you're not getting it, yeah Ayaka just isn't into you which sucks but. I hope Risa gets a W by the end of this, there's so many other lesbians around Risa and they'll love you I just know it.

I feel like the characters in this series have realistic motivations and hang ups.

most of the reason any of this Risa V. Hiroko discussion is happening is people aren't used to seeing a character like Hiroko in the role she's in taking the actions she's taking

ah Risa, you really deserved the W but you're not getting it, yeah Ayaka just isn't into you which sucks but. I hope Risa gets a W by the end of this, there's so many other lesbians around Risa and they'll love you I just know it.

at the very least there's a lesbian bar she knows that she can go to for support

Yeah, Ayaka wasn't into it but Risa knew she was in a precarious position after Ayaka told her that she wasn't interested back in an earlier chapter. She pushed for this situation as a last chance attempt and that's fair! But Ayaka just isn't romantically attracted to her even with Hiroko temporarily out of the mix (but not really). Seemed like Ayaka was "out of it" on all their dates. I really see them as sisterly and I think she does too, as she couldn't wrap her mind around looking at Risa in a romantic way at all.

Hopefully they can talk through this moment but that'll take Risa's being OK with remaining a best friend. It's not like Ayaka pushed for this, she seemed to accommodate the request to be nice. I'd hate for Risa to blame Ayaka for not have feelings when Ayaka already told her this a long time ago. Risa makes Ayaka happy but as a friend and that should eventually be OK too. Risa, go to that bar! Lots of great people there.

Now Hiroko is getting into her background! Great. Should be interesting to see what incidents might have raised her concern levels and how Ayaka the pitbull can maybe represent a different path. "Senpai" seems to have some parallels to her current situation.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 12:34PM

Talk about meta-discussion: All these people indignant that anyone would dare say that Risa is nicer and they don't like Hiroko. I'm not sure what the problem is with this? It's a valid form of discussion of the story. The notion that a reader might like Risa better doesn't mean that's the only way this story should go. The love triangle is still a part of the story, and therefore still worthy of being discussed.

I... don't think it's exactly a love triangle tbh. I think this chapter kind of solidifies Risa is being rejected. People can like whoever they want I just don't think it will happen and people will be disappointed and criticize the story, maybe I'm wrong so I'm sorry. Anyway these are just our opinions. Anyone can say whatever they want which is why I asked people what ideas they have about an Ayaka×Risa endgame.
Also, dare I say I find Risa kind of self righteous? Jk jk Hope she gets her happy ending with someone else :)

I feel like the characters in this series have realistic motivations and hang ups.

Citation needed

I feel like the characters in this series have realistic motivations and hang ups.

Citation needed

"I'm her boss and she still has her whole life ahead of her. I'm sure she'll find someone better than a woman 13 years her senior."

13 years is a big deal and it's a realistic take that Hiroko thinks about it instead of like, in some silly romcom where the older woman seduces the younger one or something.

Hiroko also knows she isn't ready to have a serious relationship.

"More than anything for all my years of dating I still insist on hiding every bit of it," she knows Ayaka wants a serious relationship and Hiroko is too insecure about her sexuality and constantly in the closet that she doesn't think she's ready for one.
Sure, she can string Ayaka along or she stay single until she figures things out.

I think it's pretty realistic given the circumstances. There's over the top scenarios and gags on one hand and on the other hand realistic issues that gay women face in their day to day lives.

As for Ayaka and Risa, they act a bit like teenagers at times so I'm not sure they're realistic in that sense. Maybe a bit exaggerated.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 1:11PM

It's just odd to have same discussion that is one pages of the manga openly between people here. Everything was laid out bare, how it works in context of this particular story, what might become a problem for Ayaka and Hiroko in long term. Side characters even gave their analysis for it. It's super rare for things to be this clear-cut.

Hiroko is that hot'n'cool onee-san. Hiroko is on Ayaka's strike zone. Risa is a regular girl with regular height. Not Ayaka's type. Risa had about same amount of chance with Ayaka as some random nice person, and she was also bad at wooing someone who has a heartbreak.

That hot person might be a trash long term spouse, of course. But that is usually outside of purview of the story itself.

Yeah like I get it because Risa is just a more tryhard Sayaka.

But like Hiroko spelled it out. All her issues are legitimate

Damn everyone who left an Ayaka x Risa comment must be reeling right now lol

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 1:34PM

For a manga that started off with the same gag many times over, MAN, the rate of development has just accelerated WHOOOOOOOOOSH.

I’m loving the pacing!

Finally we'll see the reasons why Hiroko has been acting as such.
Can't say I'm sad for Risa, never really cared for her.
On another note, the bar and it's people are the damn best.

I think it's pretty realistic given the circumstances. There's over the top scenarios and gags on one hand and on the other hand realistic issues that gay women face in their day to day lives.

Agreed, about your love triangle comment. And yeah, agreed again, here. All her hangups were laid out clear, there's not much else to do to make them clearer. It's complicated dealing with whatever her past is, being gay in a corporate environment within a socially conservative country, being 13 years older, and also being her boss.

I especially love the line asking Hiroko something like "what has been making you lie to yourself." This line further solidifies the idea that she's not been fully dense but instead in denial (a big difference). She's been running from the truth she almost realized in that earlier chapter when she got sick in her stomach (which was a hint). Guess we'll find out an extra reason why, now.

last edited at Jun 17, 2023 2:00PM

ah Risa, you really deserved the W but you're not getting it, yeah Ayaka just isn't into you which sucks but. I hope Risa gets a W by the end of this, there's so many other lesbians around Risa and they'll love you I just know it.

How about Ms. CEO who told Hiroko to go kiss a duck?

I remember a guy, he once wrote that a certain girl from a certain manga, if she turned real, could seduce any man in the real world. Any man. They would all be powerless to resist her and simply had no chance against her. This made a lot of people very angry. Questions were asked: "What about married men, would they forget their love and break their commitment? What about gay men, would she convert them? Was this girl the cure for homosexuality? What about celibates by choice? What about Catholic priests? What about...?" The guy replied in a huff that when he said "all men in the world would" he of course meant "all men except those who wouldn't" and we were all stupid for not reading his mind and getting that. After several comparable gaffes, always blaming others for his mistakes, he was banned from the forum.

Write clearly. Reread before posting. Mind ambiguity. Remember implied is not the same as stated and context is not the same as text. Don't expect other people to intuit your meanings. Say exactly what you want to say, in no uncertain terms; no more, no less. And if you fail, accept your responsibility; don't throw the blame onto others.

Great message, excellent advice. Will it get through to the people who need it, that's another matter. But don't feel bad, you did your best.

Awww, Risa-chan did her best...I hope she can find someone who is a good match for her, so that ship sunk, very deep into the ocean, now we will see how Hiroko gets together with Ayaka eh

People, I understand some things might need to more clear for those of us who are more literal but there is no need for this to escalate so much...