Is not entirely wrong though.

The value dissonance at play when it comes to citrus is easily spotted when you look at what the different fandoms all over the world think about the series. American fandom is by far the most vitriolic since the notion of having to live according to old traditions is deemed as insane for most Americans. In contrast, Spanish-speaking fans are much more receptive to the premise since those countries exist similar traditions. And for what it's worth, looking for the series or the characters' names in Japanes on twitter shows generally positive opinions from Japanese accounts.

Is not entirely wrong though.

The value dissonance at play when it comes to citrus is easily spotted when you look at what the different fandoms all over the world think about the series. American fandom is by far the most vitriolic since the notion of having to live according to old traditions is deemed as insane for most Americans. In contrast, Spanish-speaking fans are much more receptive to the premise since those countries exist similar traditions. And for what it's worth, looking for the series or the characters' names in Japanes on twitter shows generally positive opinions from Japanese accounts.

What 'premise' are you referring to? Lesbian stepsisters? Or arranged marriages?

I certainly never had a problem with "traditional values" in the series. Lazy, unfocused writing and hand-waving problem-solving, yes. But traditional values, no.

What 'premise' are you referring to? Lesbian stepsisters? Or arranged marriages?

Arranged Marriages

I certainly never had a problem with "traditional values" in the series. Lazy, unfocused writing and hand-waving problem-solving, yes. But traditional values, no.

Handwaving problem-solving was certainly an issue but a lot of the grievances the US fandom directly stem from a combination of both the looming "threat" of Mei's arranged marriage and her lack of initiative to do anything about it.

Handwaving problem-solving was certainly an issue but a lot of the grievances the US fandom directly stem from a combination of both the looming "threat" of Mei's arranged marriage and her lack of initiative to do anything about it.

Insofar memory serves the serious issue with that whole arc was how it kinda came out of nowhere, was handled clumsily to put it mildly, and finally resolved with what can be best described as "handwave conga line."

Not that the whole Suddenly Arranged Marriages thing being a dead-horse trope in the genre particularly helped ofc.

What 'premise' are you referring to? Lesbian stepsisters? Or arranged marriages?

Arranged Marriages

I certainly never had a problem with "traditional values" in the series. Lazy, unfocused writing and hand-waving problem-solving, yes. But traditional values, no.

Handwaving problem-solving was certainly an issue but a lot of the grievances the US fandom directly stem from a combination of both the looming "threat" of Mei's arranged marriage and her lack of initiative to do anything about it.

There again, the problem with that for me was that the story had established that with Sensei McRapey gone, arranged marriage for Mei was off the table until Saburouta, clearly at a loss for what to do with the story after wandering around aimlessly in the middle Shirapon/festival, etc. chapters, pulled it out of her ass to set up the big (handwaving) finale.

Had that arranged-marriage development been prefigured even a bit methodically, or had Mei mentioned it to her supposed partner like a halfway rational human being, it would have been a different, and more coherent, story.

I of course cannot speak for "US fandom," only for myself.

But the nuances of Japanese culture in terms of inheritance, wealthy family expectations, etc. got extensive discussion here, and for all the problems people had with the execution of the storytelling, the gist of the opinions was not simply "those values suck."

The cultural specificity of the kind of families that live in houses with The Thing That Goes "Doink" (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThingThatGoesDoink) is hardly news to anyone who reads very much manga--generational expectations, overbearing parents and grandparents, arranged marriages, etc. are among the hoariest of manga tropes.

EDIT: tl;dr: what random said.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 11:15AM

As in: "Everyone in Japan agrees with me that the side characters in Citrus are more interesting than the MC, except this one guy in southern Hokkaido, but he's always been kind of a prick, and more than half-Ainu anyway."

LMAO

the cmt section of Citrus is even more dramatic than the manga LOL.

the cmt section of Citrus is even more dramatic than the manga LOL.

Not an incredibly high bar these days, to be sure.

they have a lot of time ig specially haters LMAO

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 12:45PM

-sigh- I’m getting bored of entertaining the vitriol in this discussion, it has digressed way too far from any discussion of the latest chapter, and that’s what I was originally here for. Maybe it was my fault for poking the hornets’ nest with a stick regarding the Mei discussion but I was looking for someone to have a mature debate about the plot, not get attacked because I prefer the side characters over the main ones. And honestly, if you can’t see that the immature act Matsuri puts on is just that, AN ACT, then there’s really no point in further continuing this discussion. Not that it was even a discussion in the first place.

Also sadhomu, I wasn’t joking, Homura is my most hated character in the MadoMagi, still is. I can even safely tell you that I like Nagisa more than Homura LOL. I won’t argue with your preferences, I’m just stating mine. Madoka was a good starting role for Yuki Aoi, it gave her a step up into the world of mainstream but it wasn’t one of her best roles. It was a good role that fit her though, but it stereotyped her roles for a while cuz it was just too iconic even though that role wasn’t her full potential.

You guys can say whatever you want about me wanting more character development about the most ‘insignificant character in the story’ I was stating that as an example, but even joke characters have their own story especially since she is WAAAAY more than just a cameo character, just seeing how often she appears together with the main cast in the story is enough to peak my interest in how and why did she get significant enough to be with them in so many panels, I mean if her presence in the manga was like Shirapon senpai or even Momokino, popping up every once in a few chapters/volumes, I probably wouldn’t care less about what her story is. I simply want more insight on the universe of Citrus and for more expansion and development on the supporting cast.

Maybe because I see Citrus as something close to a Shoujo manga, and an expansion of the characters followed by a character arc is always present. Especially for characters that are always within the same circle as the ‘main characters’.

Anyways, I’m done here. Getting a bit too toxic to stay.
Might be back when the next chapter is out for plot input if there’s any.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 1:56PM

Just seeing how often she appears together with the main cast in the story is enough to peak my interest in how and why did she get significant enough to be with them in so many panels

Spoiler : She is just here for the HaruYuzu running gag. I don't think it's good to think too much on why Nene is here. Beside her arc, she has stay as a joke character who just fantasm on HaruYuzu.

but it stereotyped her roles for a while

Like a lot of Seiyuus tbh.

Also sadhomu, I wasn’t joking, Homura is my most hated character in the MadoMagi, still is.

I will be honest that i'm just curious why, if you can explain in a more appropriate topic.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 2:02PM

Also sadhomu, I wasn’t joking, Homura is my most hated character in the MadoMagi, still is. I can even safely tell you that I like Nagisa more than Homura LOL. I won’t argue with your preferences, I’m just stating mine. Madoka was a good starting role for Yuki Aoi, it gave her a step up into the world of mainstream but it wasn’t one of her best roles. It was a good role that fit her though, but it stereotyped her roles for a while cuz it was just too iconic even though that role wasn’t her full potential.

First of all HEATHEN. you hate Homura? the protagonist of Madoka? I guess you were not paying any attention while watching the anime.
also Madokas voice, personally I never heard a similar voice acting like hers and trust me I watch a lot of anime. all characters in madoka are interesting but the one driving them all is and always will be Homura since she trapped everyone including her self in her universe.
also Aoi was known for other roles before madoka,mostly shaft anime works.

You guys can say whatever you want about me wanting more character development about the most ‘insignificant character in the story’ I was stating that as an example, but even joke characters have their own story especially since she is WAAAAY more than just a cameo character, just seeing how often she appears together with the main cast in the story is enough to peak my interest in how and why did she get significant enough to be with them in so many panels, I mean if her presence in the manga was like Shirapon senpai or even Momokino, popping up every once in a few chapters/volumes, I probably wouldn’t care less about what her story is. I simply want more insight on the universe of Citrus and for more expansion and development on the supporting cast.

I am gonna say this once. NENE sucks and she is boring and personally I believe that nothing would be different in the manga if she never existed,unlike Harumin and Matsuri.
the most backstory Nene could get would be that she is secretly a doujin artist of yuri manga about HARUYUZU and Mei suddenly discovers those. that would be a blast. other than that,thanks but no thanks,not interested

I am gonna say this once. NENE sucks and she is boring and personally I believe that nothing would be different in the manga if she never existed,unlike Harumin and Matsuri.

I've always thought Nene was pretty obviously Saburouta trolling HaruYuzu shippers, period.

I am gonna say this once. NENE sucks and she is boring and personally I believe that nothing would be different in the manga if she never existed,unlike Harumin and Matsuri.

I've always thought Nene was pretty obviously Saburouta trolling HaruYuzu shippers, period.

LMAO that too,but in all honesty,nothing in the story would be different if she was never around

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 3:03PM

Well, Nene was the catalyst for Mitsuko's little wager with Mei and the subsequent modification to the Academy rules that eventually let Matsuri attend in all of her pink-haired glory, so there's that.

Well, Nene was the catalyst for Mitsuko's little wager with Mei and the subsequent modification to the Academy rules that eventually let Matsuri attend in all of her pink-haired glory, so there's that.

Right, the "gyarus corrupting the next generation" business--Nene's moment of glory.

Subsequently she's had all the presence of Mei's teddy bear and about an equally (heck, arguably less) risible story function.

Her backstory is probably best held back for the Citrus: Secret Origins spinoff.

WELL HOT DAMN CITUS + IS FUCKING AMAZING.

SABUROUTA YOU DID AGAIN YOU CRAZY DEVIL WOMAN!

last edited at Nov 25, 2020 12:04AM

Knowing Sabu, she'll pretend to let Haru and Matsu get together and then end the manga. Obviously I WANT this to happen very badly (between Haru and Matsu) but knowing Sabu is the ultimate troll, I can't believe I will ever be so fortunate.

I'm shocked right now that the author is letting this happen even as a joke. I thought her original story was holy ground?

Why do I find HaruMatsu so interesting?

Tall vs short aspect.
Harumin is obviously hiding things/Matsu is obviously hiding things
Purple vs pink
Luscious vs Akihabara gamer girl
Genius vs a bit of a dimwit
Mature vs immature

They're opposites in every way. And like they say, opposites attract.

I know Sabu was playfully putting them together but I thought it was a joke. This manga would really restart if it wasn't a joke though. Like fire.

On the other hand I agree that Mei has been written into a corner, but we all know why her character conceit is the way it is. Mei broke up with Yuzu so Mei is afraid of restarting intimacy. Wouldn't you in all likelihood feel terrible if you ripped the heart out of the person you love and made them save you AGAIN? Where is Mei's agency? That's the big question, plus Sabu is leaving her on the backburner. Citrus Plus will be about how they can restart intimacy from a 60-floor luxury condo apartment building fire (metaphor for her burning down their relationship and lying to her and running away).

If I'm Sabu I've looked for interesting things to write about. As far as Mei being a ninny, yes she is, it's her conceit and it will build her character, I believe. Or at least that's what I would look for.

Harumin and Matsuri will redeem each other and Yuzu/Mei will have to redeem each other. The big reveal is what Yuzu has to do with all of this? How will she grow? That will be the hardest part to write.

Yuzu has been such a one-dimensional character as the literal representation of the author--much like Sailor Moon represented her author. I wonder if there's a way to make her grow in these arcs? She can't be happy-go-lucky medicine girl forever, eventually she has to change. What is the conceited side of Yuzu? Where is dark Yuzu? I'd like to see a role reversal, happy sun Mei and dark devil Yuzu--that would be worth paying tickets for.

Anyways, this chapter was absolute fire. Can't wait for the next and I'm so glad they continued the series if only for this chapter.

Where is Mei's agency?

First place I would look would be Sabu’s junk drawer, or wherever that one missing sock goes in the laundry room. :)

Although I personally don’t find either one of the HaruMatsu pair especially interesting, I agree with most of your post.

And it would be just like arch-troll Saburouta to end the series by giving us a HaruMatsu sex scene while Mei and Yuzu continue to cling grimly to their chastity while sleeping in the same bed.

And it would be just like arch-troll Saburouta to end the series by giving us a HaruMatsu sex scene while Mei and Yuzu continue to cling grimly to their chastity while sleeping in the same bed.

I already will be more surprised if they even end up together.

Citrus Plus will be about how they can restart intimacy from a 60-floor luxury condo apartment building fire (metaphor for her burning down their relationship and lying to her and running away).

To your “one-dimensional Yuzu” point (not that I hold it against her—at least one of the MCs is consistently written), is there any indication that Yuzu holds even the slightest resentment (or any other kind of negative feeling) against Mei for that sudden breakup (let alone for Mei not saying anything about the eventual arranged marriage while they were together)?

Yuzu just seems relieved and happy to have Mei back after her successful rescue mission. (I’m starting to see Yuzu’s role as basically the same as the protagonist in hero-dog stories.) So if in fact Mei’s current character is a function of her guilt about hurting Yuzu, it’s yet another example of her carrying everything inside without communicating with her supposed life-partner.

last edited at Nov 26, 2020 11:04AM

I actually think it is more likely than not that Yuzu/Mei will eventually have sex in Citrus+... but have all those clamoring for that considered that it almost certainly won't be what they are hoping for?

It is highly unlikely to be explicit, and there is a very good chance it won't even happen "on screen", it might be a milestone, but the actual mechanics aren't relevant at all - Y&M's sexual desire/chemistry is already long-established. Citrus's infamous "sexy" energy has always been related to misdirection (including the covers!) and misunderstanding - the genuine moments have always been soft and touching - so pillow talk would be the order of the day, not rubbing naked body parts together.

Also, although I'm not coming at this from a waiting-for-sex angle, has anyone "done the math" on the timeline: we are only around 5 weeks in at 1 July. Spring/April - high school graduation and likely date for the wedding is seeming a very long way off. Are we looking at Saburouta's long term job-security plan?

That kiss made me goo kyaaaaaaa

asdfghk

When will the next chapter will come out???????