OK, Erogequeen, we get it—your readings are always right because of your superior understanding of Japanese language and your deep insight into the nuances of Japanese culture, and your freedom from the blinders that prevent we benighted Westerners from grasping the true significance of what we’re looking at.

I understand why condescension must be so unavoidable when redressing the ignorance of others,

Personally I'm looking forward to the reasoning as to how their cultural knowledge and familiarity with the plot is superior to Saburouta's when things don't go the way they want.

And now I know you're just messing up with me.
Homura is and always will be the best character in anime history ( don't change my mind) and madoka was Aoi Yuki's one of her best voice works. ( Don't change my mind about that either)
I think you just like to be edgy or really you're just an idiot with an opinion about everything ( you wanna know more about Nene? The most insignificant character in citrus?? really???)

Just remember that you are dealing with someone who thinks "Matsuri is the most mature character in the series" https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/637415 , and what sort of person that would be.

Then it all makes sense (and doesn't seem worth arguing about).

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 4:23AM

Just to note, every Japanese reader probably is of the same opinion that I have.

Just how presumptuous can you get ? And seriously ? That's your proof, you can found easy arguments to why she've done it rather than jumping immediatly to "Harumin was in love with Yuzu" bandwagon. Just when and how Harumin would have fall in love ? Their relation were nothing but friendship but you never see Harumin acting more romantic toward Yuzu during the main series ever (beside your interpretation of the confession, which will make no sense because it will be out of nowhere). Like my interpretation at why Harumin is affectionate is because she feel guilty she couldn't help Yuzu during the main series abouther troubles with Mei.

Nene IS a joke character, but she’s also in the plot for a reason. Whether she was meant to be a superficial joke character, or have a bigger significant role later in the story remains to be seen.

The reason is already in the past because her arc is finish. I don't see Sabu reusing Nene as a plot device.

Mitsuko would probably have a bigger appearance if there were to be a Harumin arc.

No shit Sherlock

And now I know you're just messing up with me.
Homura is and always will be the best character in anime history ( don't change my mind) and madoka was Aoi Yuki's one of her best voice works. ( Don't change my mind about that either)
I think you just like to be edgy or really you're just an idiot with an opinion about everything ( you wanna know more about Nene? The most insignificant character in citrus?? really???)

Just remember that you are dealing with someone who thinks "Matsuri is the most mature character in the series" https://dynasty-scans.com/forum/posts/637415 , and what sort of person that would be.

Then it all makes sense (and doesn't seem worth arguing about).

Yes I've read all the nonsense they wrote

OK, Erogequeen, we get it—your readings are always right because of your superior understanding of Japanese language and your deep insight into the nuances of Japanese culture, and your freedom from the blinders that prevent we benighted Westerners from grasping the true significance of what we’re looking at.

I understand why condescension must be so unavoidable when redressing the ignorance of others,

Personally I'm looking forward to the reasoning as to how their cultural knowledge and familiarity with the plot is superior to Saburouta's when things don't go the way they want.

Right—Saburouta, in contrast to all the dozens if not hundreds of other manga we’ve read, is channeling the deeply ingrained essence of Japanese cultural identity.

Especially the part about stepsisters having lesbian relationships and getting gay-married.

HaruMatsu SAILS

I mean, japanese culture and values have always been an important factor in the writing of citrus, that much is true. Mei's entire struggle in the original series was her commitment to be what was expected of her from society rather than what she wanted. Yuzu on the other hand served as her foil due to her complete disregard of those society expectations in favor of her own.

Calling Matsuri the most mature might be an exaggeration but she definitely has the most awareness out all the cast.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 9:44AM

I mean, japanese culture and values have always been an important factor in the writing of citrus, that much is true.

I doubt if there's a single conscious reader of Citrus who failed to get that from the first few chapters.

"Everyone in Japan agrees with me" needs to become the new Dynasty argument-clincher.

As in: "Everyone in Japan agrees with me that the side characters in Citrus are more interesting than the MC, except this one guy in southern Hokkaido, but he's always been kind of a prick, and more than half-Ainu anyway."

"It is a truth universally acknowledged that 84% of all statistics quoted on the Internets must be made up on the spot."

Is not entirely wrong though.

The value dissonance at play when it comes to citrus is easily spotted when you look at what the different fandoms all over the world think about the series. American fandom is by far the most vitriolic since the notion of having to live according to old traditions is deemed as insane for most Americans. In contrast, Spanish-speaking fans are much more receptive to the premise since those countries exist similar traditions. And for what it's worth, looking for the series or the characters' names in Japanes on twitter shows generally positive opinions from Japanese accounts.

Is not entirely wrong though.

The value dissonance at play when it comes to citrus is easily spotted when you look at what the different fandoms all over the world think about the series. American fandom is by far the most vitriolic since the notion of having to live according to old traditions is deemed as insane for most Americans. In contrast, Spanish-speaking fans are much more receptive to the premise since those countries exist similar traditions. And for what it's worth, looking for the series or the characters' names in Japanes on twitter shows generally positive opinions from Japanese accounts.

What 'premise' are you referring to? Lesbian stepsisters? Or arranged marriages?

I certainly never had a problem with "traditional values" in the series. Lazy, unfocused writing and hand-waving problem-solving, yes. But traditional values, no.

What 'premise' are you referring to? Lesbian stepsisters? Or arranged marriages?

Arranged Marriages

I certainly never had a problem with "traditional values" in the series. Lazy, unfocused writing and hand-waving problem-solving, yes. But traditional values, no.

Handwaving problem-solving was certainly an issue but a lot of the grievances the US fandom directly stem from a combination of both the looming "threat" of Mei's arranged marriage and her lack of initiative to do anything about it.

Handwaving problem-solving was certainly an issue but a lot of the grievances the US fandom directly stem from a combination of both the looming "threat" of Mei's arranged marriage and her lack of initiative to do anything about it.

Insofar memory serves the serious issue with that whole arc was how it kinda came out of nowhere, was handled clumsily to put it mildly, and finally resolved with what can be best described as "handwave conga line."

Not that the whole Suddenly Arranged Marriages thing being a dead-horse trope in the genre particularly helped ofc.

What 'premise' are you referring to? Lesbian stepsisters? Or arranged marriages?

Arranged Marriages

I certainly never had a problem with "traditional values" in the series. Lazy, unfocused writing and hand-waving problem-solving, yes. But traditional values, no.

Handwaving problem-solving was certainly an issue but a lot of the grievances the US fandom directly stem from a combination of both the looming "threat" of Mei's arranged marriage and her lack of initiative to do anything about it.

There again, the problem with that for me was that the story had established that with Sensei McRapey gone, arranged marriage for Mei was off the table until Saburouta, clearly at a loss for what to do with the story after wandering around aimlessly in the middle Shirapon/festival, etc. chapters, pulled it out of her ass to set up the big (handwaving) finale.

Had that arranged-marriage development been prefigured even a bit methodically, or had Mei mentioned it to her supposed partner like a halfway rational human being, it would have been a different, and more coherent, story.

I of course cannot speak for "US fandom," only for myself.

But the nuances of Japanese culture in terms of inheritance, wealthy family expectations, etc. got extensive discussion here, and for all the problems people had with the execution of the storytelling, the gist of the opinions was not simply "those values suck."

The cultural specificity of the kind of families that live in houses with The Thing That Goes "Doink" (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheThingThatGoesDoink) is hardly news to anyone who reads very much manga--generational expectations, overbearing parents and grandparents, arranged marriages, etc. are among the hoariest of manga tropes.

EDIT: tl;dr: what random said.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 11:15AM

As in: "Everyone in Japan agrees with me that the side characters in Citrus are more interesting than the MC, except this one guy in southern Hokkaido, but he's always been kind of a prick, and more than half-Ainu anyway."

LMAO

the cmt section of Citrus is even more dramatic than the manga LOL.

the cmt section of Citrus is even more dramatic than the manga LOL.

Not an incredibly high bar these days, to be sure.

they have a lot of time ig specially haters LMAO

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 12:45PM

-sigh- I’m getting bored of entertaining the vitriol in this discussion, it has digressed way too far from any discussion of the latest chapter, and that’s what I was originally here for. Maybe it was my fault for poking the hornets’ nest with a stick regarding the Mei discussion but I was looking for someone to have a mature debate about the plot, not get attacked because I prefer the side characters over the main ones. And honestly, if you can’t see that the immature act Matsuri puts on is just that, AN ACT, then there’s really no point in further continuing this discussion. Not that it was even a discussion in the first place.

Also sadhomu, I wasn’t joking, Homura is my most hated character in the MadoMagi, still is. I can even safely tell you that I like Nagisa more than Homura LOL. I won’t argue with your preferences, I’m just stating mine. Madoka was a good starting role for Yuki Aoi, it gave her a step up into the world of mainstream but it wasn’t one of her best roles. It was a good role that fit her though, but it stereotyped her roles for a while cuz it was just too iconic even though that role wasn’t her full potential.

You guys can say whatever you want about me wanting more character development about the most ‘insignificant character in the story’ I was stating that as an example, but even joke characters have their own story especially since she is WAAAAY more than just a cameo character, just seeing how often she appears together with the main cast in the story is enough to peak my interest in how and why did she get significant enough to be with them in so many panels, I mean if her presence in the manga was like Shirapon senpai or even Momokino, popping up every once in a few chapters/volumes, I probably wouldn’t care less about what her story is. I simply want more insight on the universe of Citrus and for more expansion and development on the supporting cast.

Maybe because I see Citrus as something close to a Shoujo manga, and an expansion of the characters followed by a character arc is always present. Especially for characters that are always within the same circle as the ‘main characters’.

Anyways, I’m done here. Getting a bit too toxic to stay.
Might be back when the next chapter is out for plot input if there’s any.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 1:56PM

Just seeing how often she appears together with the main cast in the story is enough to peak my interest in how and why did she get significant enough to be with them in so many panels

Spoiler : She is just here for the HaruYuzu running gag. I don't think it's good to think too much on why Nene is here. Beside her arc, she has stay as a joke character who just fantasm on HaruYuzu.

but it stereotyped her roles for a while

Like a lot of Seiyuus tbh.

Also sadhomu, I wasn’t joking, Homura is my most hated character in the MadoMagi, still is.

I will be honest that i'm just curious why, if you can explain in a more appropriate topic.

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 2:02PM

Also sadhomu, I wasn’t joking, Homura is my most hated character in the MadoMagi, still is. I can even safely tell you that I like Nagisa more than Homura LOL. I won’t argue with your preferences, I’m just stating mine. Madoka was a good starting role for Yuki Aoi, it gave her a step up into the world of mainstream but it wasn’t one of her best roles. It was a good role that fit her though, but it stereotyped her roles for a while cuz it was just too iconic even though that role wasn’t her full potential.

First of all HEATHEN. you hate Homura? the protagonist of Madoka? I guess you were not paying any attention while watching the anime.
also Madokas voice, personally I never heard a similar voice acting like hers and trust me I watch a lot of anime. all characters in madoka are interesting but the one driving them all is and always will be Homura since she trapped everyone including her self in her universe.
also Aoi was known for other roles before madoka,mostly shaft anime works.

You guys can say whatever you want about me wanting more character development about the most ‘insignificant character in the story’ I was stating that as an example, but even joke characters have their own story especially since she is WAAAAY more than just a cameo character, just seeing how often she appears together with the main cast in the story is enough to peak my interest in how and why did she get significant enough to be with them in so many panels, I mean if her presence in the manga was like Shirapon senpai or even Momokino, popping up every once in a few chapters/volumes, I probably wouldn’t care less about what her story is. I simply want more insight on the universe of Citrus and for more expansion and development on the supporting cast.

I am gonna say this once. NENE sucks and she is boring and personally I believe that nothing would be different in the manga if she never existed,unlike Harumin and Matsuri.
the most backstory Nene could get would be that she is secretly a doujin artist of yuri manga about HARUYUZU and Mei suddenly discovers those. that would be a blast. other than that,thanks but no thanks,not interested

I am gonna say this once. NENE sucks and she is boring and personally I believe that nothing would be different in the manga if she never existed,unlike Harumin and Matsuri.

I've always thought Nene was pretty obviously Saburouta trolling HaruYuzu shippers, period.

I am gonna say this once. NENE sucks and she is boring and personally I believe that nothing would be different in the manga if she never existed,unlike Harumin and Matsuri.

I've always thought Nene was pretty obviously Saburouta trolling HaruYuzu shippers, period.

LMAO that too,but in all honesty,nothing in the story would be different if she was never around

last edited at Nov 23, 2020 3:03PM

Well, Nene was the catalyst for Mitsuko's little wager with Mei and the subsequent modification to the Academy rules that eventually let Matsuri attend in all of her pink-haired glory, so there's that.

Well, Nene was the catalyst for Mitsuko's little wager with Mei and the subsequent modification to the Academy rules that eventually let Matsuri attend in all of her pink-haired glory, so there's that.

Right, the "gyarus corrupting the next generation" business--Nene's moment of glory.

Subsequently she's had all the presence of Mei's teddy bear and about an equally (heck, arguably less) risible story function.

Her backstory is probably best held back for the Citrus: Secret Origins spinoff.