lol Macysan and I are always agreeing. But yeah what she said ^

Hotaru is a person who genuinely loves Yuma, because shitty people full of problems can also fall in love. Yuma actually accepts that by the end of the story. She knows Hotaru is cunning and passive-aggressive af ("garbage" as Kodama herself said), and yet after knowing all of her, decides to stick with her. It was written like a genuine love story, 2 people who have seen each other at their worst. So in that sense it's better than most.

As for Fujiwara, he was literally an abuser. Those also exist in droves. I actually wish his character had been more explored, but maybe it would have turned the story even darker.

So yeah these types of people exist, and it doesn't even take a lot of effort to find them. Go to a club every weekend, pick up one girl every time; In my experience you will draw a Hotaru-type out of the dance floor at least 20% of the time lol

last edited at Jul 25, 2019 10:46PM

There are tons of boring mangas out there. Yet this is the trash? Trashy characters is different than trash manga. It's like reading for example Dexter, then saying the book was bad because the guy was a serial killer. That's exactly the point of the story. To showcast characters like that. It is not supposed to be a happy cUtE story.

I think you're still misunderstanding why people think it's trash. There are good stories about trashy people. Most of Kodama Naoko's works fall into that category, in my opinion. Her one-shots and shorter series are well-paced and engaging. Netsuzou on the other hand is just a complete mess of a story.

The main characters in Moratorium and Cocytus are bad people. Mao is incredibly selfish. She's obsessed with Itsuki and she wants to keep her to herself forever. However, she isn't really Itsuki's friend. She doesn't actually care about her. She deliberately manipulates her to try and make it so Itsuki can never leave her, regardless of how painful the relationship is.

Shiina is a coward. She's afraid to stand up for herself, and she's completely unwilling to stand up for Kuroneko. She takes advantage of Kuroneko's kindness in private while at the same time treating her like shit in public. However, the stories do a good job of getting us to empathize with these people. We understand why they do what they're doing. They may be bad people, but they feel human.

Netsuzou is mostly not like that. Hotaru is tormented at the thought that Yuma will never love her back, so sleeps around with random guys to dull the pain. But at the same time, she can't resist making moves on Yuma. Then when Yuma actually likes her back, she runs away because she thinks she's too shitty a person to get what she wants. That's rather extreme, but it's interesting. A character like that could make for a good story. In fact, I'm sure it's made for many different good stories, some of which I've read.

Yuma is too fucking dumb to realize that her friend who's constantly coming on to her might harbor feelings for her, and too dumb to realize that the fact that she enjoys it might mean that she reciprocates those feelings. Oh, and she's nice to people. That's... uh, not as good. I guess you could have this character in a short story, and in might still be interesting. Or maybe she could be a running joke in a gag manga. But having her as the main character of your 30 chapter dramatic series is like writing an epic about a bowl of oatmeal. She's just too dumb to be believable and to boring to care about.

Fujiwara is... evil? I feel like there was supposed to be some explanation of why he does the shit he does, but it never materializes. Maybe he was like a mirror of Hotaru, gay for his friend but unable to do anything about it? I forget. Also, he's not much of a villain. He's constantly presented as this menacing figure, but then all he does is say mean things to them and then spread (true) rumors about them. Maybe a character like this could carry a short arc in a long-running series with otherwise strong characters. But as a primary antagonist, he just doesn't have enough going on. It's clear very early on that he's not actually a threat, and then after that he's just a complete waste of space. The other guy is so plain as to be not worth mentioning.

So overall, you've got this really half-baked premise based around one very out-there, but complete, character, and three cardboard cut-outs. The presentation is over-the-top, and for me that saves it through sheer ridiculousness. It turned out to be a very funny series. It's certainly not the worst manga out there. It was more ambitious than something silly like A Room For Two or something very basic like Girl Friends, but it just didn't accomplish what it set out to do, whereas those two series deliver exactly what they promise.

The reasons Netsuzou gets more shit than other, even worse series is probably because it also got way more hype. It turned out to be very popular, and the popular and mediocre always receives far more criticism than the unheard of and abysmal.

last edited at Jul 26, 2019 10:47AM

It was written like a genuine love story, 2 people who have seen each other at their worst. So in that sense it's better than most.

That's not how love stories are written. That is one factor of a story, but not its entire sum and NTR did not even manage to get that part right. Yuma didn't do anything and has no "worst" moment. She is exactly the same bland flat character from start to finish. Unless you mean her obliviousness is her "worst" in which case, I think everyone sees her at her worst all the time.

As for Fujiwara, he was literally an abuser. Those also exist in droves. I actually wish his character had been more explored, but maybe it would have turned the story even darker.

So yeah these types of people exist, and it doesn't even take a lot of effort to find them. Go to a club every weekend, pick up one girl every time; In my experience you will draw a Hotaru-type out of the dance floor at least 20% of the time lol

You once again make the mistake of equating "They exist in real life" to "good writing". Those are not linked. NTR isn't a dark story in the first place... it's wannabe melodramatic and edgy, but not dark. The worst thing that happened is that... uh... I guess cheating? But not really cheating actually.
I mean it is kind of revolting that Hotaru throws herself at random guys to drown out her stupidity, but it's not dark.

Look, we aren't talking about your hook-ups here, we are talking about actual relationships and love. How you can possibly even compare the two, I have no idea. Even worse that you think you can gauge a person's character like that after one night.

Anyway, Kodama likes writing about trashy people, but she often forgets to also add a story that utilizes those characters. It's like a teenager who has to let out their angst in fanfics every now and then and doesn't care about the end result as long as they could give way to that urge.

last edited at Jul 26, 2019 5:27AM

It was written like a genuine love story, 2 people who have seen each other at their worst. So in that sense it's better than most.

That's not how love stories are written. That is one factor of a story, but not its entire sum and NTR did not even manage to get that part right. Yuma didn't do anything and has no "worst" moment. She is exactly the same bland flat character from start to finish. Unless you mean her obliviousness is her "worst" in which case, I think everyone sees her at her worst all the time.

As for Fujiwara, he was literally an abuser. Those also exist in droves. I actually wish his character had been more explored, but maybe it would have turned the story even darker.

So yeah these types of people exist, and it doesn't even take a lot of effort to find them. Go to a club every weekend, pick up one girl every time; In my experience you will draw a Hotaru-type out of the dance floor at least 20% of the time lol

You once again make the mistake of equating "They exist in real life" to "good writing". Those are not linked. NTR isn't a dark story in the first place... it's wannabe melodramatic and edgy, but not dark. The worst thing that happened is that... uh... I guess cheating? But not really cheating actually.
I mean it is kind of revolting that Hotaru throws herself at random guys to drown out her stupidity, but it's not dark.

Look, we aren't talking about your hook-ups here, we are talking about actual relationships and love. How you can possibly even compare the two, I have no idea. Even worse that you think you can gauge a person's character like that after one night.

Anyway, Kodama likes writing about trashy people, but she often forgets to also add a story that utilizes those characters. It's like a teenager who has to let out their angst in fanfics every now and then and doesn't care about the end result as long as they could give way to that urge.

Well let’s agree to disagree then. In my opinion although the situations in NTR were played up for the drama, which happens in almost every manga out there, the situations are totally believable including Yuma’s obliviousness. Maybe you don’t think it’s believable and simply disregard it as “trash” because you haven’t seen anything similar.

So I mentioned real life simply because if something happens in real life, in my opinion even if it seems contrived in writing, it takes guts for an author to show it as it is even when it doesn’t seem like a good story to write. To show that a lot of people are dumb, selfish, passive aggressive, and do stuff just to make others squirm.

As you mentioned, readers didn’t like that Yuma the main character was so dumb (or as Hotaru suggested, she was oblivious out of convenience) and that Hotaru was such a horrible cunning person. Which is why most of the comments on the NTR thread, if you go look, are about taking pity on the nice guy, and why ”Yuma and Hotaru are such bitches”. Needless to say, despite the torrent of complaints about the characters being awful people, from page 1 to the last in the thread, apparently lots of people continued reading including I am assuming yourself LOL

Any explanations I have seen you give about why the story is bad, are pretty obviously just rationalization on the fact that you disliked the characters because you can’t relate to them and doesn’t find taking their perspective interesting.
Which is fair enough, but in terms of actual storytelling quality, I cannot see why the story is any worse than most of the manga on this site. It has beginning, middle, and a satisfying if a bit rushed ending, with most stuff explained and good suspense. Heck, it even has some makeout scenes and the characters even have sex (!). Kodama literally delivered all the goods lol It is just not a cute fluffy story.

last edited at Jul 26, 2019 9:07AM

Well let’s agree to disagree then. In my opinion although the situations in NTR were played up for the drama, which happens in almost every manga out there, the situations are totally believable including Yuma’s obliviousness. Maybe you don’t think it’s believable and simply disregard it as “trash” because you haven’t seen anything similar.

I didn't have to read farther than that to indeed disagree. Anyone who thinks Yuma's harem protagonist level density and indeciveness that border on a disability is "realistic" can't possibly judge things objectively.

So I mentioned real life simply because if something happens in real life, in my opinion even if it seems contrived in writing, it takes guts for an author to show it as it is even when it doesn’t seem like a good story to write. To show that a lot of people are dumb, selfish, passive aggressive, and do stuff just to make others squirm.

But that is not what the manga does. It portrays absurdly bad caricatures of real life stereotpyes in the most unstructured way possible.

Needless to say, despite the torrent of complaints about the characters being awful people, from page 1 to the last in the thread, apparently lots of people continued reading including I am assuming yourself LOL

That's no argument. "You kept reading" has no relevance to quality. Just like I sometimes can't pull my head away from looking at a car accident, I also read this manga to completion. To be fair, I didn't have to wait for new chapters, I read it all in one go, so that was probably the main reason I pulled through. Having to wait 1 month for a new chapter in which nothing happens, 12 months in a row, would definitely get even me to quit.

Any explanations I have seen you give about why the story is bad, are pretty obviously just rationalization on the fact that you disliked the characters because you can’t relate to them and doesn’t find taking their perspective interesting.

Cute that you think you can analyze me, when you can't even do it with the characters you defend. I was giving you plenty of non-character related arguments for why that manga was a trashfire, but if you need more, why don't you reply to @schuyguy for once, who took it apart even further?

Which is fair enough, but in terms of actual storytelling quality, I cannot see why the story is any worse than most of the manga on this site. It has beginning, middle, and a satisfying if a bit rushed ending, with most stuff explained and good suspense. Heck, it even has some makeout scenes and the characters even have sex (!). Kodama literally delivered all the goods lol It is just not a cute fluffy story.

Your personal bias is rather tragic. Storytelling structure is something you don't care about, considering you found Bloom Into You was not very good because it actually had one.
There was no satisfying ending and the fact that you of all people applaud a straightforward predictable rushed happy end seems out of character. Almost like you only defend the story, because you like the trashy characters and gratuitous sex scenes so much... Hmmm.
The most suspense it had was in the first third of the manga. Everything else was a drag. And even worse, all the cliffhangers led to literally nothing, which made all suspense they could have created meaningless. By the 6th time people catch on to that kind of thing.

Kodama delivered almost nothing, but as long as it fits your 3 preferences you're willing to ignore it lol

What can I say?
Never change, BugDevil. Sparing with you about irrelevant manga minutia is always a treat ;)

Don't know if worth mentionning that we got a new Kodama manga on Mangadex called Umineko sou days or Seagull Villa days.

Resume : Mayumi lost her fiancee to the only person she called a friend. Throwing everything away, running from it all, and starting a new life in the countryside was her plan, but what awaits her is a blonde yankee, Rin (the manager of the housing complex Seagull Villa), that she doesn’t deal well with. A story about the daily lives and the relationship between these two women as well as the people in this seaside town!

As for more spoilers from chapter 1 For the first part of losing her fiancé, it's more than just a simple break up. Said friend not only cheat with the fiancé but also get pregnant and gonna marry him,explaining why the MC run to the countryside and meet with the other MC after a little misunderstanding. First chapter end with the Yankee drunk kissing the MC saying "Friend kiss" and we see the ex-friend trying to call MC and wondering where she was.

From what i thought, ex-friend just done her shit to make the fiance and MC break up and try to win over the MC (maybe faking her pregnancy) but she didn't expect MC to go the countryside (no shit Sherlock, you show up at the break up meeting where she heard you're pregnant and gonna marry her fiancé, of course she don't want to see you) and i theorize she will somehow know where MC goes and go see her to explain the situation (but without having breakup with the fiancé beforehand) and try to win her over. Just hope MC will be not stupid enough to forgive her that easily

^ I like the dysfunctional relationships Kodama Naoko writes. Not sure who I'm supposed to ship the mc with, although it sounds pretty hard to make the ex friend likeable. It sounds interesting though, I'll check it.

last edited at Aug 5, 2019 11:40AM

https://twitter.com/yuri_gatari/status/1169539548969201665?s=19

RT campaign! For each RT, one character of this interview with Kodama Naoko will be made available to read for free. 8k RTs will make the whole article free.

I will translate this interview if it the tweet reaches 8k. So many retweets is a bit of a tall order, but if you could help out, that'd be great!

Sensei has always been my favorite author, my favorite drawing line

Ah yes. If cointoss was a yuri mangaka.

I keep mixing her up with Shiina Nami.

Does anybody know what happens to her twitter account? It appears to be suspended....what has she done...

ah yes,another awesome author

not a big fan of drama,but this author makes it..somewhat enjoyable?

Ah, Kodama Naoko. the coin toss of yuri works. It does sometimes feel a little surreal that someone who can create utter melodramatic shitshows like NTR and other angsty shit yet can create cute fluff like Renai Manga and some of her oneshots which are so lewdly wholesome as well as stuff that straddles the line perfectly.

I swear, every time she releases a new work it's like a mystical Schrodinger's yuri as to which way it'll fall on the Naoko spectrum and nobody knows until they're able to read it.

I'd love to see her collaborate with Homura Subaru on some lewdly wholesome works because it could potentially become fluff-ception

Can pls we tag her as NTR
That would be hilarious

Can pls we tag her as NTR
That would be hilarious

But what about the light Kodama works?!

(why da heck did "works" autocorrect to "worms"?)

Huh... It's been awhile since we got sometbing from Kodama Naoko-san

She's created characters that are naughty and villainous to the point you ask 'does this happen in real life', 'do they really exist?'

yes.

yes, they really exist.