Forum › I'm the Only One Not Crossdressing!? discussion

Fetish%20notebook%20lsmol
joined May 20, 2013

Not to prod a verbose hornet's nest, but what exactly is the logical conclusion that you want to bring this to, @SillieHonka?

Do you want this stuff to not be hosted? To have plentiful content warnings before hand? Or do you just want to voice your displeasure?

1385408507407
joined May 4, 2013

that bit over your preferences sounds pretty eggy, @Throbelisk ngl

Also this annoying twat of an insecure MC isn't being made to question anything of his.
The humor of this manga relies solely on shock value, but you can only get so much
milage out of jokes with a punchline as simple as "look how manly these characters are,
now look at how girly they are, ain't that weird?"

last edited at Sep 18, 2020 9:04PM

GendoIkari Uploader
Tsuglenda
joined Aug 10, 2011

mmmmmmmmm
clothes still with boys' body heat

Blanksmall
joined Nov 24, 2017

that bit over your preferences sounds pretty eggy, @Throbelisk ngl

Also this annoying twat of an insecure MC isn't being made to question anything of his.
The humor of this manga relies solely on shock value, but you can only get so much
milage out of jokes with a punchline as simple as "look how manly these characters are,
now look at how girly they are, ain't that weird?"

I don't know what the hell "eggy" means, other than covered in egg. Maybe you had a stroke and didn't realize it. Also, it's only the second chapter, and none of the humor has been anything of the sort like you're describing. I think you're projecting your own insecurities onto something that's been very benign for the subject matter. Maybe you should learn to not take comedies so seriously. You're just going to have a bad time.

Mask
joined Jan 6, 2015

I love his hair.

joined Aug 15, 2020

sooo, isn't this basically Princess Princess?

10807fb9dea2e14573bdced1ea4c45e9
joined Aug 19, 2019

Lol Ueda the mindfucker.

1385408507407
joined May 4, 2013

I don't know what the hell "eggy" means, other than covered in egg. Maybe you had a stroke and didn't realize it.

Like transy without insinuating someone being outright trans. Metaphor for closeted trans folk, when they come out they "hatch" from said egg.

Tumblr_pt8g0ejdkp1u02i96o1_500%20(1)
joined Jan 24, 2020

Not to prod a verbose hornet's nest, but what exactly is the logical conclusion that you want to bring this to, @SillieHonka?

Do you want this stuff to not be hosted? To have plentiful content warnings before hand? Or do you just want to voice your displeasure?

I assume their intent is to argue that people engage with this sort of media more critically (in the sense of like intellectual critique, not like "i am saying things i don't like about this" critical) just like we would with a manga that implicitly upholds for example, the class -s idea that "girls having relationships together is just something they grow out of and doesn't have anything to do with real lesbianism". In both cases we could still read and enjoy a manga like that, being aware of that, but also understand (and even maybe address) the problems that underlie it.

Blanksmall
joined Nov 24, 2017

I don't know what the hell "eggy" means, other than covered in egg. Maybe you had a stroke and didn't realize it.

Like transy without insinuating someone being outright trans. Metaphor for closeted trans folk, when they come out they "hatch" from said egg.

It's nothing like that, though I have actually considered it. It's more of a commitment to not conforming to stereotypes. I've never felt uncomfortable as a male or thought I should have been born female. I just don't care about adhering to behavior patterns considered to be masculine. Keeping all options open, basically.

Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

Throbelisk posted:

I just don't care about adhering to behavior patterns considered to be masculine. Keeping all options open, basically.

Masculinity and femininity doesn't exist anyway, It's all stereotypes and social norms. We all would be much better off, if we stopped labeling things as one or another and just let everyone live however they feel like.

1448607546000
joined Jan 22, 2015

Well this forum became a shit-show.

GendoIkari Uploader
Tsuglenda
joined Aug 10, 2011

Kiryu-san

10807fb9dea2e14573bdced1ea4c45e9
joined Aug 19, 2019

I wonder if Tozawa will end up giving in and cross dressing at the end or something

Blanksmall
joined Nov 24, 2017

I wonder if Tozawa will end up giving in and cross dressing at the end or something

The characters seem to have two facial types in this: a more angular type for the less-passable characters, and a rounder type for the ones that you can't even really tell are crossdressing. Tozawa definitely has the latter facial type, so I'd bet money on him finally giving up his stupid quest for masculinity and joining in...eventually.

Fetish%20notebook%20lsmol
joined May 20, 2013

Kiryu-san

Josuke-kun

last edited at Oct 21, 2020 7:31PM

Kiarabg
joined Sep 6, 2018

It makes me sad to see strife like this when people are talking about something so important and personal, so I’d like to lend a voice in a way that is not attacking anyone. I hope to address some of the talk been going on, as well as the manga itself.

First, I want to clarify for the sake of knowing where I’m coming from that I am a trans woman; obviously that doesn’t tell you everything my experience and perspective, but I hope it does frame my point of view.

So. I really don’t think the Internet, and especially forums, are the place have important discussions, and I almost never think that coming at people is effective or appropriate. I think the big problem, in the end, is that people have different frameworks, and if you approach them working entirely under the assumptions of your own frameworks and theirs are very different, it’ll just create argument—you’re not even really talking about the same things. Arguing about frameworks, coming at people for having different frameworks, is nearly always counterproductive. And sometimes we won’t agree, and that can be okay. To me it’s about promoting reasonable, complete understandings of what we know together with kindness towards people—that’s generative, and helps everyone who’s willing to consider new perspectives, take in knew information, and improve their frameworks.

I won’t implicate myself into the ongoing argument, except to say this; to me the manga seems on the whole to be a relatively good-natured and interesting exploration of gender roles, gendered expectations, and sexuality, and how all those things work together. I really like that part about it, and to me it makes sense that we’re seeing in our main character a mindset of rigid and distinct gendered understandings be thrust into confusion and distress through confrontation with modes of gender he doesn’t understand. The main “femboy” is different from the dismissive bait I often see, having their own maturity, wisdom, and perspective that lets them challenge and productively tease the MC about his gender in ways that the passive fetishistic gender-toys of other shows do not. At the same time, I also think that some of the frameworks that I perceive in the manga support notions I consider unkind; most prominently, the idea that crossdressers who pass more are more valid and to be considered more as women is inaccurate and unkind because of how it reinforces links between gender and beauty standards. In truth, many people who don’t pass in a conventionally attractive way can give off very femme vibes and be feminine or womanly in ways that people around them will receive—perhaps one’s immediate judgement will be different, but spending time with or interacting with such people will leave a different impression, I assure you. Even just putting on a skirt or something can change how someone carries themself and their vibe. I can understand that a focus on non-passing crossdressers may not be a part of the author’s aims, and they do good work elsewhere, and also that leaving this unaddressed contributes to something harmful.

I hope that the brief account I gave properly represents my perspective that we can allow for things to be both bad and good in a work in terms of how they promote kindness and truthfulness, and that there is room for such an approach to appreciating and criticizing the work. I don’t receive this work to be transphobic as a whole, though some frameworks stand out that affect femmes in an adverse way. However, I also believe that the frequency and emotional intensity of people’s reactions to seeing AMAB femmes in anime and manga mean that there is something there to dig into that I don’t see, whether it’s a matter of tropes, individual works, cultural background, the English-speaking community’s treatment of such things, or something else. I believe there it also room for such a discussion, and that it could be productive.

Finally, I don’t want to make this as a call-out, but I feel compelled to say that calling people eggs should not be done. I think the “egg” framework and culture can be useful for helping trans people come to terms with our pasts, and “see” ourselves and evidence of our gender before we had figured it out in an affectionate, patient, and validating light that helps heal us from the notion that our validity requires knowing our gender from birth; however, I only think “egg” talk is productive when self-applied or mutually agreed-upon; otherwise, it is challenging or labeling others without their consent, which is not just bad in and of itself but also especially harmful to people who are harboring or dealing with gendery feelings; if I have hidden trans feelings from myself as a protective measure, someone trying to expose them or point them out will just make me work harder to bury them to keep myself safe. It is aggressive and counter-productive in its reception, even when well-meant. If you do want to engage, saying something like, “you know I felt similarly at one point, I felt like that a lot before I transitioned” or “Mmm, I can relate to that,” or something like that, is better. Whatever the deal is it’s their story, and your role is to offer help or goodwill if they wish to take it, not to try to write on the next page.

So yeah. Text wall. But I hope people receive some value from this, and once again, I’m not trying to say that anyone’s feelings or perspective are wrong, or to call anyone out.

last edited at Oct 21, 2020 8:28PM

Blanksmall
joined Nov 24, 2017

I think taking any of the characters' crossdressing as anything more than just that is a little premature at this point.

Mask
joined Jan 6, 2015

I keep reading the title as "I'm Not The Only One Crossdressing?!", which is a concept I'd also like to read.

joined Oct 27, 2018

All I'll say regarding the discussions on here is that it's a little odd to have over 50% of a school be crossdressers, yet fail to even mention the possibility that some of them may be trans.

Blanksmall
joined Nov 24, 2017

All I'll say regarding the discussions on here is that it's a little odd to have over 50% of a school be crossdressers, yet fail to even mention the possibility that some of them may be trans.

For a comedy with only three chapters so far, you're setting the bar rather high, don't you think?

joined Oct 27, 2018

All I'll say regarding the discussions on here is that it's a little odd to have over 50% of a school be crossdressers, yet fail to even mention the possibility that some of them may be trans.

For a comedy with only three chapters so far, you're setting the bar rather high, don't you think?

I don't think that's a particularly high bar at all.

Blanksmall
joined Nov 24, 2017

All I'll say regarding the discussions on here is that it's a little odd to have over 50% of a school be crossdressers, yet fail to even mention the possibility that some of them may be trans.

For a comedy with only three chapters so far, you're setting the bar rather high, don't you think?

I don't think that's a particularly high bar at all.

Not for a serious piece, no. This is a comedy. I think you'd be better off adjusting your expectations to the genre (i.e. - to literally zero).

GendoIkari Uploader
Tsuglenda
joined Aug 10, 2011

Given demographics it's a little odd for any manga set in a school not to present the possibility some of the characters might be trans.

joined Oct 27, 2018

Not for a serious piece, no. This is a comedy. I think you'd be better off adjusting your expectations to the genre (i.e. - to literally zero).

"Have zero expectations" is a pretty terrible defense. Besides, you do know that trans people aren't always super dour and serious, right? We can exist in comedic stories. The bar I set was even lower than that though, it's odd the possibility isn't so much as mentioned, and I agree with you gendolkari, it's odd in tons of works, but a setting like this makes it much more jarring.

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