Kanda-Kun zigs and Ookuma-San zags

SCREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

You mean "let's bang" isn't about firing explosives at one another? Man, no wonder my last relationship didn't work out.

No wonder you thought that's what it means. You're a physics major IIRC.

Sounds more like a chemist thing IMO... o3o

Where's that one post Heavensrun made in the Futaribeya thread months ago when I need it?

The one about solar intensity at the beach?

You mean "let's bang" isn't about firing explosives at one another? Man, no wonder my last relationship didn't work out.

No wonder you thought that's what it means. You're a physics major IIRC.

Sounds more like a chemist thing IMO... o3o

Where's that one post Heavensrun made in the Futaribeya thread months ago when I need it?

The one about solar intensity at the beach?

Yep

EDIT: Found it!

last edited at Jul 12, 2020 5:23AM

People are similarly taking the "I might attack you" think too far as well by reading "attack" too literally. Love making is a very "vigorous" action. Just as "attack" is used in sports, it doesn't necessarily mean literally violent action.

{Love making is a very "vigorous" action.}

THIS. No truer words have been spoken.

last edited at Jul 12, 2020 5:51AM

not if you're a pillow princess

In a bicycle race "attack" means you petal harder to pass an opponent or escape from the peloton. Nothing violent.

Shouldn't Ookuma (great bear) have bear ears?

Well, that's a very interesting discussion with very interesting arguments, but can we all agree on One thing :

Those Fluffy animal parts are better drawn than the entire chapter.

I think this series should get the "Cross-Dressing" tag. For the main character has the intent to hide her identity with another mode of dress. If she wasn't concerned about her appearance to her friend, she would have confessed immediately.

• Sees twitter update * Well it looks interesting.

wow this got good real fast

I think the people who are reading too much into this are reading the English too literally and forgetting that this is a translation of Japanese and that English words are approximations of Japanese meaning. Even the translated title has different nuance than the English "Sheltered Girl". The Japanese title has "hakoiri musume" which is literally "daughter kept in a box". She's wasn't just sheltered, she was kept from almost all knowledge of the world and thus doesn't even know what genitals look like to tell male from female. This doesn't feel like a stretch to me.

People are similarly taking the "I might attack you" think too far as well by reading "attack" too literally. Love making is a very "vigorous" action. Just as "attack" is used in sports, it doesn't necessarily mean literally violent action.

The criticism isn't only based on the use of the word "attack", it's also based on the way the text explicitly uses the concept that people, and specifically men, cannot control themselves when they are aroused. This idea is reproduced uncritically and without commentary by any of the characters. The fact that it turns out not to be true about Kanda, and that in reality she's actually really good about consent, doesn't change that.

I think this series should get the "Cross-Dressing" tag. For the main character has the intent to hide her identity with another mode of dress. If she wasn't concerned about her appearance to her friend, she would have confessed immediately.

Considering that Kanda doesn't consider herself a man, and was already dressing that way before she cared what anyone thought of her gender presentation, that seems wrong. There are plenty of butch girls who dress like that, and they're not cross dressing.

Considering that Kanda doesn't consider herself a man, and was already dressing that way before she cared what anyone thought of her gender presentation, that seems wrong. There are plenty of butch girls who dress like that, and they're not cross dressing.

How would a girl crossdress anyway? There isn't really a lot of "masculine-gender-locked" clothing anymore. A suit or tuxedo (with a suit jacket, not a blazer) comes to mind, maybe a shirt, everything else, meanung most everyday clothing men wear, is unisex. Unlike skirts and dresses, which are (with very few exceptions) locked to the feminine. Blouses are basically just shirts adapted to female anatomy, so I'm not even sure if we should distinguish them from shirts, and tight-fitting t-shirts (similar to girly-shirts) have found their place in masculine fashion as well.

How would a girl crossdress anyway? There isn't really a lot of "masculine-gender-locked" clothing anymore.

Well if she's deliberately trying to pass for the opposite sex rather than, say, buying male-pattern trousers simply because those have proper useful pockets like my mother does, I'd say the intent makes the difference.

Unlike skirts and dresses, which are (with very few exceptions) locked to the feminine.

Skirts are manly yo

o3o

The two comments above me reminded me of how I thought of the clothes of the peoples in the northern regions of eastern Heshul in the Story of Zadura and Odlega as season-locked, rather than gender-locked (long-sleeved thick shirts and thick long pants in winter, thin shirt-sleeved shirts and skirts reaching just above the knees in summer).

The two comments above me reminded me of how I thought of the clothes of the peoples in the northern regions of eastern Heshul in the Story of Zadura and Odlega as season-locked, rather than gender-locked (long-sleeved thick shirts and thick long pants in winter, thin shirt-sleeved shirts and skirts reaching just above the knees in summer).

That's, uh, kinda normal at high latitudes you know. The winter cold kills without some serious bundling up, which sort of wear conversely nets you a heatstroke in the summer heat.

Though usually trousers were then worn year round since they're pretty practical, just lighter patterns in the warm seasons. The Eurasian horse nomads had pants as default garb for both sexes because fuck riding in a skirt, but among more sedentary peoples some manner of skirt was usual for women for practical reasons (notably relieving yourself).

The Eurasian horse nomads had pants as default garb for both sexes because fuck riding in a skirt, but among more sedentary peoples some manner of skirt was usual for women for practical reasons (notably relieving yourself).

You dare assume I didn't know those? I AM THE RESIDENT HISTORY ENTHUSIAST IN THIS SITE

The Eurasian horse nomads had pants as default garb for both sexes because fuck riding in a skirt, but among more sedentary peoples some manner of skirt was usual for women for practical reasons (notably relieving yourself).

You dare assume I didn't know those? I AM THE RESIDENT HISTORY ENTHUSIAST IN THIS SITE

Screw you I was here first =3=

among more sedentary peoples some manner of skirt was usual for women for practical reasons (notably relieving yourself).

And often usual for men, especially upper class men. Well, maybe robes instead of skirts? Anyway, trousers are for barbarians.

The Eurasian horse nomads had pants as default garb for both sexes because fuck riding in a skirt, but among more sedentary peoples some manner of skirt was usual for women for practical reasons (notably relieving yourself).

You dare assume I didn't know those? I AM THE RESIDENT HISTORY ENTHUSIAST IN THIS SITE

Screw you I was here first =3=

Alright, let's both be then.

And often usual for men, especially upper class men. Well, maybe robes instead of skirts? Anyway, trousers are for barbarians.

"Panty flash or go home"
- the Samnites, probably

...mind you both the Romans and the Chinese ended up adopting dirty barbarian trousers at least in the military because the stupid sexy things were just too practical compared to bedsheets, especially if you wanted to get serious about cavalry :P

Alright, let's both be then.

I can work with that o3o

How would a girl crossdress anyway? There isn't really a lot of "masculine-gender-locked" clothing anymore. A suit or tuxedo (with a suit jacket, not a blazer) comes to mind, maybe a shirt, everything else, meanung most everyday clothing men wear, is unisex. Unlike skirts and dresses, which are (with very few exceptions) locked to the feminine. Blouses are basically just shirts adapted to female anatomy, so I'm not even sure if we should distinguish them from shirts, and tight-fitting t-shirts (similar to girly-shirts) have found their place in masculine fashion as well.

At this point it probably comes down almost entirely to intent. It would have to be something like a girl adopting a style of dress for the express purpose of passing as male, while still identifying as female. Or being a drag king I guess.

Of course, this is relative to culture. If you're in, say, Saudi Arabia, there's still clothing that is 100% masculine coded.

At this point it probably comes down almost entirely to intent. It would have to be something like a girl adopting a style of dress for the express purpose of passing as male, while still identifying as female. Or being a drag king I guess.

Of course, this is relative to culture. If you're in, say, Saudi Arabia, there's still clothing that is 100% masculine coded.

Yeah, I guess intent and resulting behavioural adaptations would be a big part of it, and I can also see how traditional clothing has a much stronger gender exclusivity in many parts of the world. Even here, in southern Germany, the traditional "Lederhosen" are still largely masculine-exclusive, despite some women wearing them on occasion (which may even elicit negative reactions from traditionalists).

If we assume that "behaviour" is part of crossdressing, I think it's rather fair to say that Kanda is crossdressing as masculine, because she's deliberately wearing gender-neutral or masculine clothing (even making sure Ookuma won't notice her breasts) and playing the part of the boyfriend.

@random
I was specifically thinking of Kilts when I noted that there were some exceptions to skirts being feminine-coded ;-)
And I agree, Kilts are masculine a.f., especially if you wear them commando, and super comfy in hot summers.

last edited at Jul 31, 2020 5:37AM

How would a girl crossdress anyway? There isn't really a lot of "masculine-gender-locked" clothing anymore.

Well if she's deliberately trying to pass for the opposite sex rather than, say, buying male-pattern trousers simply because those have proper useful pockets like my mother does, I'd say the intent makes the difference.

But that's the thing, she -isn't-. This is her normal style, and while it accidentally led to Ookuma thinking she was a boy, she wasn't. So in this case her "cross dressing intent" consists of wearing what she normally wears while also wearing an (apparently unnecessary) corset and not correcting a misconception. That's pretty ambiguous.

But that's the thing, she -isn't-. This is her normal style, and while it accidentally led to Ookuma thinking she was a boy, she wasn't. So in this case her "cross dressing intent" consists of wearing what she normally wears while also wearing an (apparently unnecessary) corset and not correcting a misconception. That's pretty ambiguous.

Pretty sure it's the addition of deliberate deception - however nonmalicious - that makes the difference here ya know.