Don't think.... feel. okay.

Every single comment thread on this site is a race to see who will be the first person to take a fictional story -- no matter how absurd, silly, or farcical -- 100% seriously.

All art should be taken seriously.

Also:

LETS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

When I saw the tittle wasn't "Two steps back".I FUCKING SCREAMED AND NOW MY MOM THINKS I'M CRAZY
I MIGHT BE

This was enough to make my day a lil bit better ówò I'm so glad that part is over

last edited at Jul 8, 2020 4:08PM by

They becaume wolfs (ˉ▽￣～)

They becaume wolfs (ˉ▽￣～)

In light of lupine mating behavior I can only see this as ABSOLUTE WIN

THIS ISN'T JUST "ONE" STEP FORWARD

For a moment I really think Ookuma parents gonna show as a suprise christmas visit there and ruin the moment

Please help I need insulin fast!

Now let's pull up a chair and have a conversation about "rape culture".

There is no point so you can put your chair back where you take it.

The notion that "if you do x I won't be able to control myself and will sexually assault you" is a lie made up by people who either want to excuse rape or put the blame for it on the victim. Empowering rapists is what I would call a problem of rape culture.

"put Kanda in a really difficult position right from the start."

I don't see it. Sure, Ookuma mistook Kanda's gender. Kanda could have said something right then. Or at any time in the past 6 months. Including early on, when she asked Ookuma "what if I were a girl?" and Ookuma basically shrugged. Kanda put herself in this position.

If someone mistakenly thinks you are the opposite sex, That's going to bruise your self esteem. If they're also smitten with you, you have the awkward combination of being both insulted and flattered at the same time.

She got herself into the relationship because of a stupid impulse, but it was Ookuma's...overpowering enthusiasm that made it difficult for her to come forward at the start, and then she caught actual feelings and started to become afraid of losing her. Everything there came from a place that was well-intentioned, if irresponsible. I'm not saying it's all Ookuma's fault, it's definitely mostly on Kanda for not coming forward earlier, but if you don't think any of that would be difficult to deal with, I don't know what to tell you.

And it's real easy to say "Haha if you were a girl? I dunno, I guess I wouldn't care" when you are absolutely convinced that it couldn't be true. It didn't necessarily do much to alleviate Kanda's worries. The fact that she apparently meant it wouldn't help Kanda in that moment, but it -does- make forgiving her much easier for Ookuma. Like I said, it's pretty easy to forgive someone for something you didn't really care about.

Now let's pull up a chair and have a conversation about "rape culture".

There is no point so you can put your chair back where you take it.

The notion that "if you do x I won't be able to control myself and will sexually assault you" is a lie made up by people who either want to excuse rape or put the blame for it on the victim. Empowering rapists is what I would call a problem of rape culture.

You're taking the scene way too literally. First of all, I don't know the exact japanese in the original, but you routinely see "attack" in manga referring to consensual sexual advances. She isn't literally saying she's going to sexually assault her, she's saying she's going to make a sexual advance. I don't know how anybody reading this comic could think Kanda is the type of person that would force herself on Ookuma without consent. You are conflating an absolutely innocent scene with people who make excuses for actual sexual misconduct.

She's saying "If you strip in front of me, I'm going to want to do stuff to you." Ookuma then -literally- says that's the plan, and that she will consent if that happens. Then she does strip, and Kanda literally asks for consent directly despite the fact that she already has it. There's no assault here, nor threat of assault, or anything approaching a threat of assault. Just two absolute dorks nervously approaching the concept of maybe wanting to do stuff to each other if that's okay.

You are jumping at shadows in a well-lit room here.

Now let's pull up a chair and have a conversation about "rape culture".

There is no point so you can put your chair back where you take it.

The notion that "if you do x I won't be able to control myself and will sexually assault you" is a lie made up by people who either want to excuse rape or put the blame for it on the victim. Empowering rapists is what I would call a problem of rape culture.

something something fun at parties

Also tortuous mental gymnastics to find something, anything to be offended over. Check that Twitter mentality at the door plox.

Through much of this series I found Ookuma to be cute but slightly annoying because she was such an idiot, but at the crucial moment she has shown herself to be an idiot pearl without price.

last edited at Jul 9, 2020 9:00AM

Now let's pull up a chair and have a conversation about "rape culture".

There is no point so you can put your chair back where you take it.

The notion that "if you do x I won't be able to control myself and will sexually assault you" is a lie made up by people who either want to excuse rape or put the blame for it on the victim. Empowering rapists is what I would call a problem of rape culture.

oh my god, are we really gonna have a discussion about this? it's obvious that kanda wasn't implying that, she would never try and do something without consent. you literally see her ask "can I touch you" in one of the last panels. pls, go back to Twitter and use that energy on real rapists.

I'd enjoy this chapter more if Kanda hadn't dragged the lie out to the point where I don't really feel she deserves Ookuma's boundless understanding. The longer the lie was maintained the less a jokey "It was never a problem in the first place" resolution works and the more it feels like the lie itself should be the source of conflict rather than the subject of the lie.

Now let's pull up a chair and have a conversation about "rape culture".

There is no point so you can put your chair back where you take it.

The notion that "if you do x I won't be able to control myself and will sexually assault you" is a lie made up by people who either want to excuse rape or put the blame for it on the victim. Empowering rapists is what I would call a problem of rape culture.

oh my god, are we really gonna have a discussion about this? it's obvious that kanda wasn't implying that, she would never try and do something without consent. you literally see her ask "can I touch you" in one of the last panels. pls, go back to Twitter and use that energy on real rapists.

lol, no. Just because a work contains no actual rapists, it doesn't make parroting of pernicious rape apologia beyond criticism. The idea that people, especially men, have no control of themselves when they get horny is a myth with negative social consequences, and noting when a piece of media reinforces that myth is entirety fair. This doesn't mean the person noticing it is offended, or looking for something to be angry about, it just means they are looking at the media they consume with a critical eye. Which is good.

This also doesn't mean mean that liking this makes you a bad person. I still like it. I enjoy tons of problematic shit. That's okay! If it weren't, there'd be basically no media we'd be allowed to enjoy.

You're taking the scene way too literally. First of all, I don't know the exact japanese in the original, but you routinely see "attack" in manga referring to consensual sexual advances. She isn't literally saying she's going to sexually assault her, she's saying she's going to make a sexual advance. I don't know how anybody reading this comic could think Kanda is the type of person that would force herself on Ookuma without consent. You are conflating an absolutely innocent scene with people who make excuses for actual sexual misconduct.

She's saying "If you strip in front of me, I'm going to want to do stuff to you." Ookuma then -literally- says that's the plan, and that she will consent if that happens. Then she does strip, and Kanda literally asks for consent directly despite the fact that she already has it. There's no assault here, nor threat of assault, or anything approaching a threat of assault. Just two absolute dorks nervously approaching the concept of maybe wanting to do stuff to each other if that's okay.

You are jumping at shadows in a well-lit room here.

Oh, I'm not talking about this couple, they seem lovely (huge lie aside) and there's clearly consent there. For me, though, a romantic sequence where the dialogue is saying, over and over again, "hey, remember how all men are rapists" without criticizing that norm is disappointing.

Oh, I'm not talking about this couple, they seem lovely (huge lie aside) and there's clearly consent there. For me, though, a romantic sequence where the dialogue is saying, over and over again, "hey, remember how all men are rapists" without criticizing that norm is disappointing.

So when we find that hypothetical story that says “all men are rapists” without criticizing that norm, as opposed to this story, which depicts that initial notion that “all men are wolves” as something that a profoundly naive and explicitly sheltered girl has gleaned from pop song lyrics, a story which couldn’t be more explicit and forthright about the need for sexual desire to be accompanied by explicit consent if it tried, that will indeed be disappointing.

The whole point of the chapter is that in this context “becoming a wolf” means “giving oneself over to mutual sexual desire,” not “being a rapist.”

damn bitch that shit was beautiful

Deym

Wait, "bore with it"? Do people talk like that?

I only just stumbled upon this gem by scanning the "college" tag entries (had my fill of high school for a bit).

I love the artstyle. Kanda's great. Ookuma's character design isn't quite for me, but whatever.

I liked the progression, and, like dear Blastaar pointed out as sharply as usual, Ookuma is finally coming into her own and may be more than just a bubbly airhead in the future.

With regards to the ongoing discussion about how the "men are all wolves" line is to be interpreted, I'd take the middle ground. It's clearly depicted as a trope, and thus a clear oversimplification, but the fact remains that it's not "challenged" per sé. On the other hand we should take into account some peculiarities about Japanese culture and, as has been correctly pointed out, the baffling prevalence of "violent" imagery and words in erotic discourse in Japanese fiction.

Personally I'm taken aback when "aggression", "attacks" and "violent" appear in a sexual context, but that seems to be a somewhat western sensibility to me. Am I wrong? I'm more than willing to expand my horizons here. Still, how Ookuma reacted in the final pages was great, emphasizing consent despite the lingo.

last edited at Jul 9, 2020 9:37PM

Personally I'm taken aback when "aggression", "attacks" and "violent" appear in a sexual context, but that seems to be a somewhat western sensibility to me. Am I wrong?

Yes. At least in English common phrases such a "I want to jump your bones" are not taken as warnings of an imminent aggravated assault.

See also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWHYwUcyhaY

last edited at Jul 10, 2020 10:46AM