meh, double meh for cheating, triple kill for using men, overkill for the ending of " well its probably ok...i think?, killtacular for the all men think with thier dicks statement and killtrocity for the man hate in general

All I can say is the Rio chick sounds like she needs a shrink more than anything. She sounds really messed up.

cheating

cheating

Tag seconded, I seriously doubt they're doing that threesome with bro's knowledge and approval.

wow, what an ending :v

I have to say, I enjoyed this. no fluff, no glossy love affair. just a weird mutual attraction. OK, so there was cheating involved, but don't tell me you couldn't see that coming from a mile away?

So... what does it do with ten commandments?

meh, double meh for cheating, triple kill for using men, overkill for the ending of " well its probably ok...i think?, killtacular for the all men think with thier dicks statement and killtrocity for the man hate in general

I don't know since the only guy in the chapter is pretty nice, I think were suppose to just assume Rio is more of a bigot then anything who can't admit her real feelings

Kinda wonder what bro will think when he finds out.

At first, I had no problem with this type of yuri but the more I read these manga where all the men are described as some dumb proud horny rapist, the more I feel some discomfort…

Honestly, although I'm a man I would better see a girl with another girl than with a man and I think that lots of men are dumb and pretentious but you can't generalize like this. I see very well that this kind of plot favor the yuri but I think it's going a little too far

I don't know since the only guy in the chapter is pretty nice, I think were suppose to just assume Rio is more of a bigot then anything who can't admit her real feelings

Personally, what I understood is that he is some dumb nice guy who don't understand that a girl could not want to sleep with him. I didn't took the "he forced himself on me" totally as a the lie. Maybe I was wrong x)

last edited at Oct 5, 2014 5:03PM

it's not that this Manga is about hating all men, it's about one woman who had only experienced being with horrible men in her life that made all of them "evil" in her eyes. Her father, a man she loved and trusted, brought home a woman that abuses her. The father may have known this through the prominent bruises but has chosen to ignore it and pretend everything's fine just to keep his woman. Several men he has been with to escape home had "abused" her in some kind of way. Maybe some even forced themselves on her, a minor.
So this isn't about man-hating. It's about Rio only having a series of bad experiences with men she had trusted. It had marked all men as "evil" in her books.

"They all say that I'm smexy."

cheating

Tag seconded, I seriously doubt they're doing that threesome with bro's knowledge and approval.

I concur that cheating should be added. This story left a bad taste.

So this isn't about man-hating. It's about Rio only having a series of bad experiences with men she had trusted. It had marked all men as "evil" in her books.

It is still man hating... Technically she hates all the men and thinks they are horn dogs. The brother was such a nice guy and yet the sister still screwed around. Normally I support the yuri route but this one was done in an unpleasant way. Why did she marry the guy when Rio could have just gone with the girl!?

I think it's perfectly legit to think of all men as self-absorbed horndogs who're controlled by their dicks to the point that they can't even be accused of "thinking". Guilty until proven innocent, lol. Obviously there are contextual factors one has to keep in mind when talking about human behaviours, but in this case what you have is an allegedly very attractive young woman in an environment where she is forced to be dependent on others with no technical or self-protective skills to speak of. The situation itself is pretty disgusting (unfortunately it strikes me as pretty realistic), but in such scenarios IMO it's actually preferable for women to come to the conclusion that men are absolutely worthless.

I'd say it's basic sense/human nature that given any significant form of desire, human beings have the potential to be pieces of shit. Throw in any structural imbalances of power and what you have is a recipe for violence. That older brother doesn't hold any sympathy from me because no matter what, he sits in an inherent position of power over Rio, and he took advantage of it. What Rio meant when she said that she wouldn't care if all men just fucking disappeared from the world, is that in such a case, she might've had a chance at living an actual life of decency (not being forced to give herself to men in order to protect herself, and then coerced by her body into enjoying it). I can't blame her.

last edited at Oct 6, 2014 2:21AM

in this case what you have is an allegedly very attractive young woman in an environment where she is forced to be dependent on others with no technical or self-protective skills to speak of.

Yes, this is exactly it. Rio gets hit on by older guys (men who are old enough to have their own place to live) who she can see are only interested in her body and youth, and she uses some of them to try to get herself out of an abusive situation with her family (and, in the case of the marriage to Akihiko, possibly to use him as protection from other men). She takes what freedom she can in a situation that offers her little, even when it means using and/or hurting other people.
I think the rant Rio goes on is the author showing us some of the pain and anger this girl has at the years of sexism she's endured. It's not meant to be polished or fair, or to express the complexity of her conflicted feelings about men. It's Rio pointing out how messed-up and untrue some of the stuff she's had to deal with is (like being told that women are less smart/rational or that it's her fault grown men hit on her because she "makes" them want her by being pretty) and how awful it is to feel powerless in her situation/society.

in this case what you have is an allegedly very attractive young woman in an environment where she is forced to be dependent on others with no technical or self-protective skills to speak of.

Yes, this is exactly it. Rio gets hit on by older guys (men who are old enough to have their own place to live) who she can see are only interested in her body and youth, and she uses some of them to try to get herself out of an abusive situation with her family (and, in the case of the marriage to Akihiko, possibly to use him as protection from other men). She takes what freedom she can in a situation that offers her little, even when it means using and/or hurting other people.
I think the rant Rio goes on is the author showing us some of the pain and anger this girl has at the years of sexism she's endured. It's not meant to be polished or fair, or to express the complexity of her conflicted feelings about men. It's Rio pointing out how messed-up and untrue some of the stuff she's had to deal with is (like being told that women are less smart/rational or that it's her fault grown men hit on her because she "makes" them want her by being pretty) and how awful it is to feel powerless in her situation/society.

+1, i seriously didn't think about this as 'man hate' and i totally agree with the concept that women (no matter their sexuality) put up with a lot of sexism.

i have put up with a lot of ...genderism shall we say? (meaning people assign me qualities and characteristics based on their perception of my perceived gender... in short they assume everything about me based on their idea of what my gender is) and while it hasn't made me bitter it is very off putting.

so i can understand what was going on in this manga.

also don't think that 'man hate' was the authors intention, and even before i read the comments i wasn't getting a man hate vibe, more like a look at rio's inner personality.

*edit: though upon reading the entirety of Sol Falling's comment, i do have to say that the first paragraph of that post is pretty filled with sexism... though i do agree with the second paragraph of Sol Falling's post

last edited at Oct 6, 2014 3:20PM

I think it's perfectly legit to think of all men as self-absorbed horndogs who're controlled by their dicks to the point that they can't even be accused of "thinking". Guilty until proven innocent, lol.

I thought it was innocent until proven guilty! Oh well, that's just in the law, fact is we discriminate and form our opinion and previous experiences incredibly quick, humans are so judgemental usually. It doesn't have to be about guys or girls really, it can be about anything. It's hard for me to assume another guy is not a douche when he's wearing sunglasses at night, I try real hard to not think of him like that when I first meet him.... But, it's quite hard.

The situation itself is pretty disgusting (unfortunately it strikes me as pretty realistic), but in such scenarios IMO it's actually preferable for women to come to the conclusion that men are absolutely worthless

If you start with the idea that they're dumb, then you aren't hurt or surprised when they are. It's pretty much my exact philosophy in life, assume the worse and you can only be pleasantly surprised when you get proven wrong. I do that with everything, from video games, tv shows to relationships.

I'd say it's basic sense/human nature that given any significant form of desire, human beings have the potential to be pieces of shit. Throw in any structural imbalances of power and what you have is a recipe for violence. That older brother doesn't hold any sympathy from me because no matter what, he sits in an inherent position of power over Rio, and he took advantage of it. What Rio meant when she said that she wouldn't care if all men just fucking disappeared from the world, is that in such a case, she might've had a chance at living an actual life of decency (not being forced to give herself to men in order to protect herself, and then coerced by her body into enjoying it). I can't blame her.

Agreed, give the opportunity to do something without the law getting involved and most people would do many more things. Just think about all the times in your life you might of done something if you weren't scared of the consequences? Oh man, all those candies at the store when I was 6-7... I think I did it once, peer-pressure from classmates. But that grumpy old man at the front is sort of to scary to do it more.

Considering she lies a lot I'm not entirely sure he forced himself on her, who knows really. It's/he's not really important, what is important really in this work is her attitude and past experience.

All in all, although I don't really like the story in general because the blond is not really a person I'd want to hang out with but I can understand why she's the way she is.

When you are hurt by people, you either use that to your advantage, or you don't interact with them ( this is usually has an adult ). Women who stayed single because they were raped, and did not engage in any relationship with men are pretty common. Some try to slowly break down the wall they built themselves but some are just unable to heal and just give up. It's a sad thing really.

Sol Falling, I could not agree more!

And nobody has problems with, lets say, a 26/27 year old man dating a 15/16 year old girl? Innocent until proven guilty? In many countries that is statutory rape. The entire notion of "Lolitas" is bullshit. Young people (both girls and boys) cannot give that kind of consent as adults are able to manipulate youth (due to inexperience and power dynamics), especially ones wounded by all the adults in their lives. That makes the boyfriend a predator. Guilty.

And let us not be uncommitted to our own logic by complaining this manga portrays all men as evil horndogs (even though the character is speaking to her plentiful experiences of abuse), then give the dude a million miles of slack for dating a young girl because she "seduced him." Pick. Either you believe in the will power and agency of grown men or you don't. Either this dude is a horndog who cannot control himself or he is a GROWN MAN taking advantage of a hurt young girl living in an unsafe environment. Either way, no sympathy from me.

P.s. the dude admits she is emotionally unstable when he inarticulately talks about her behavior and how she acts out. He talks about her family history of abuse as well, so rather than be a good guy and help a young girl out, he chose to have sex with her.

last edited at Oct 6, 2014 4:40PM

Sol Falling, I could not agree more!

And nobody has problems with, lets say, a 26/27 year old man dating a 15/16 year old girl? Innocent until proven guilty? In many countries that is statutory rape.

People have issues with it, but this work has a lot of issues, girl had/has it rough. It's hard to cover everything all at once.

You're right that in some countries this is statutory rape. But in this case, if she is 16, she can legally marry him with consent from one of her parent. Considering the father just bought a new house with step-mom #9000(?) I'm sure he's so happy to be able to get rid of her.

That makes the boyfriend a predator. Guilty.

If what we're shown and what she said is true, you are absolutely right.

last edited at Oct 6, 2014 4:49PM

That is the thing, this story isn't anomalous. It is a disturbingly common tale. I would think especially so given that this story came out of Japan in the 90s when women still seemed to have little agency over their lives.

1 in 3 women are raped in the world. People the world over blame those rapes on victims, not rapists (women shouldn't dress provacatively, walk by themselves at night, etc). Women who marry men are statistically much less likely to live in poverty because the pay gap between genders the world over is tremendous (this includes developed nations). Not mention many jobs are inaccessible to women because of sexist, gendered views of labor division. This story doesn't exist in a vacuum. Sadly, I personally know grown men (plural, as in quite a few) who happily bed teenage girls. :/

Thanks for being super respectful with your response, by the way. Totally wasn't expecting that. lol

last edited at Oct 6, 2014 5:20PM

Thanks for being super respectful with your response, by the way. Totally wasn't expecting that.

Nothing you've said needed that, what you've said is true. The only thing was that the tone you used was a bit on the "offensive" so to speak.

But as a long time internet and political forum person, I've learned to refrain from falling into that trap. As soon as you start attacking people for their belief, belittling them, you've ensured the debate/discussion will add nothing of value as you go forward.

Sol Falling, I could not agree more!

And nobody has problems with, lets say, a 26/27 year old man dating a 15/16 year old girl? Innocent until proven guilty? In many countries that is statutory rape. The entire notion of "Lolitas" is bullshit. Young people (both girls and boys) cannot give that kind of consent as adults are able to manipulate youth (due to inexperience and power dynamics), especially ones wounded by all the adults in their lives. That makes the boyfriend a predator. Guilty.

there is 0 problem with this as long as they both care for each other, girls stop maturing at 16 anyway and by that point in your life you can make your own decisions.

Sol Falling, I could not agree more!

And nobody has problems with, lets say, a 26/27 year old man dating a 15/16 year old girl? Innocent until proven guilty? In many countries that is statutory rape. The entire notion of "Lolitas" is bullshit. Young people (both girls and boys) cannot give that kind of consent as adults are able to manipulate youth (due to inexperience and power dynamics), especially ones wounded by all the adults in their lives. That makes the boyfriend a predator. Guilty.

there is 0 problem with this as long as they both care for each other, girls stop maturing at 16 anyway and by that point in your life you can make your own decisions.

Physically, yes 16 is when girls stop developing. The problem is that emotional and intellectual development is very much not done at 16.

Sol Falling, I could not agree more!

And nobody has problems with, lets say, a 26/27 year old man dating a 15/16 year old girl? Innocent until proven guilty? In many countries that is statutory rape. The entire notion of "Lolitas" is bullshit. Young people (both girls and boys) cannot give that kind of consent as adults are able to manipulate youth (due to inexperience and power dynamics), especially ones wounded by all the adults in their lives. That makes the boyfriend a predator. Guilty.

there is 0 problem with this as long as they both care for each other, girls stop maturing at 16 anyway and by that point in your life you can make your own decisions.

Physically, yes 16 is when girls stop developing. The problem is that emotional and intellectual development is very much not done at 16.

I agree. At sixteen people are still usually much too immature and impressionable to be making such serious decisions, and really they shouldn't have to be making them then - that's a very big problem.