No, we're complaining because you're bullshitting us.
Let's make something clear: you're free to do what you want. You translate out of your free time and nobody is paying you. Just don't lie to your fans. You say you're very busy, yet you release every citrus chapter within 24 hours after getting the raws. And MUL gets stalled for 3+ months. And then you claim you care and give no preferences to either. That's such a blatant lie, not even 10 year old kids lie this badly.
Just admit you hate the series and drop it, nobody will hate you for that. That would be the normal and mature thing to do.
I'm glad the other group intervened, otherwise god knows how much longer you'd have stalled it.

Nez-chan, HELP!

Stop it sadhomu82, you were clearly warned by Staff.

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 11:21AM

just nobody posted:
[snip]

I'm pretty sure it's a blatant and direct violation of Rule 4 of this forum.

And using a "newly created" account to spout bullshit.... how courageous.

ChaosTeam dropped some series in the past, but they always warned people about it. Since it was a misunderstanding, all this debate should have stopped a long time ago. It was a mistake by Dynasty, but please don't fan the flames more than needed.

No, we're complaining because you're bullshitting us.
Let's make something clear: you're free to do what you want. You translate out of your free time and nobody is paying you. Just don't lie to your fans. You say you're very busy, yet you release every citrus chapter within 24 hours after getting the raws. And MUL gets stalled for 3+ months. And then you claim you care and give no preferences to either. That's such a blatant lie, not even 10 year old kids lie this badly.
Just admit you hate the series and drop it, nobody will hate you for that. That would be the normal and mature thing to do.
I'm glad the other group intervened, otherwise god knows how much longer you'd have stalled it.

Ok here's the deal
I'm only pressuring my translator for citrus , it's easier to finish up , she sometimes stays up all night and does it . It's mandatory cause she's busy
Sometimes I can't even find her on messenger etc
The person who typesets mul was busy as well so she didn't bother reminding my already busy translator to give her the translation
So it all fell behind when shit hit the fan
But I am still pressuring Citrus cause I egoistically wanna read it , so citrus release falls on me to make it happen
I don't get involved in mul releases, I can't do both
Sorry if we came out as liars and we're aware of the extent delay which honestly didn't have an excuse anymore
Plus, citrus is our first ever title and sometimes I wish it was our only one since we dropped many series we tried to take but couldn't handle them and made a statement about it
The only reason we're keeping mul is that the other team members , especially the typesetter, loves the manga and wants it for our group
All I can say is we're truly sorry for all this
That's the honest Truth and the reality of our busy lives ( whatever shit that may be,from work to health issues) is not bullshit
Once again sorry if we came out like liars or butt heads

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 11:29AM

In fact, have we ever seen a flashback of Reiichi and Uta interacting when they both were younger and lived with their parents?

We did early on.

When and where? I believe you--I just don't recall it

We're 31 chapters in and things we speculated about since chapter 1 never become any more clearer and in fact feel more contradictory than ever.

More contradictory how? I think you are overreaching to make your point.

Reiichi cheating--is he having a sexual affair with Risako or not? What we know as established in-story fact:

• Reiichi claimed to be out of town on an unplanned extension of a business trip.
• He was actually in town with Risako.
• Risako admitted to Uta that the two of them were together.
• Risako lied to Kaoru about not having seen Reiichi since his wedding.
• After talking to someone on the phone while Kaoru was in the hospital, Reiichi was shown asking himself, "What am I doing?"

All this strongly implies that he is having an affair.

Subsequent information:

• Risako (possibly) is not interested in Reiichi at all, but (possibly) has a thing for Kaoru.
• When Kaoru was in distress at her mother's death, Reiichi dumped Risako.

Hypothesis: there is a sexual affair. Premise: Reiichi does care for Kaoru, but only as an old friend he feels guilty toward; he really wants to be with Risako.

What, then, is Risako's motivation for carrying on the affair? She's not 'saving' Kaoru from anything, as she believes she was doing in high school. An affair at this point can only hurt Kaoru.

Hypothesis: There is no sexual affair. Premise: There is some other explanation for Reicchi and Risako being together and for their lying about it.

What is that explanation, and why has there not been the slightest hint as to what it could be?

As has been suggested, the presence or absence of a sexual affair has a profound effect on our understanding of two of the main characters and their motivations, but the more we learn about them (particularly about Risako) the less clear the answer to the central question--is Reiichi cheating with Risako or not?--becomes.

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 11:36AM

Nez-chan, HELP!

Stop it sadhomu82, you were clearly warned by Staff.

Sorry won't happen again

Long time ago, I was thinking more of the Kaoru's father and Uta's mom( Kaoru's mother's best friend) having an affair since Kaoru's witnessing Reiichi with Risako has an "intense" negative impact...hahaha... I guess, it is not the case...

This manga really gives me emotions. On one hand, I think Uta deserves more than Kaoru and I would be happy if she finds someone else, but on the other I also want her to be with Kaoru as she was happier living with her than with her parents.

Honestly never in my life have I seen such hate over a translating team

Sure someone don't know about the SSSSS team

Who dat

It's better if you don't know.

Honestly never in my life have I seen such hate over a translating team

Sure someone don't know about the SSSSS team

Who dat

It's better if you don't know.

Now I'm intrigued

In fact, have we ever seen a flashback of Reiichi and Uta interacting when they both were younger and lived with their parents?

We did early on.

When and where? I believe you--I just don't recall it

I don't have the time to browse through the manga again, sorry. But I very vividly remember that in the early chapters when Uta and Kaoru remembered the past all three of them were in those flashbacks together and talked.

As has been suggested, the presence or absence of a sexual affair has a profound effect on our understanding of two of the main characters and their motivations, but the more we learn about them (particularly about Risako) the less clear the answer to the central question--is Reiichi cheating with Risako or not?--becomes.

While you very well summarized the plot points, I don't see in what way this has raised any more contradictions. You cannot contradict what was not there in the first place. It is only a contradiction if your assumption is that the love affair is set in stone and even then the "contradiction" only comes from your lack of info on why they act that way.

When Nevri said that the plot is becoming more contradictive I wanted to hear serious contradictions that make plot points simply incongruent with each other, not things that don't even seem that hard to explain simply by changing your perspective.

Maybe for some people the whole "has Reiichi actually cheated" thing is dragged. Personally I don't feel like it, because there is a good reason for it.
It is about how Kaoru deals with the situation. It is aligned with her personality of avoiding uncomfortable situations, just like her mom did when she was sick. The situation is dragged because Kaoru is dragging it.

Kaoru's whole point is not just loneliness and dependency, it's also her weak resolve.
Although I don't like her much, I find interesting reading about her, because it is a representation of a weak and maybe coward main character, something you don't come across in stories.
The whole ambivalence of whether there was a cheating is a great way to bring out Kaoru's true personality on the surface and even force her to change. If the situation was resolved fast, Kaoru would soon go back to her old ways.
Reiichi cheating-she would go back to how she was after her mom died.
Reiichi not cheating- keep living like she did during their first married days, and keep being insecure of whether he actually loves her or just married her out of obligation. Wasting years like that.

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 12:09PM

Honestly never in my life have I seen such hate over a translating team

Sure someone don't know about the SSSSS team

Who dat

It's better if you don't know.

Now I'm intrigued

Shitty-meme translations, translating only the chapter he like, translate the chapter in random order. He can translate Ch.63 and just after put Ch.56. Has uploaded for several mangas the last chapter, even if a team was working on it. Act like a troll, saying that people are free to ignore him. It's probably the most hated and blocked person on Mangadex for all those causes. Also has play the victim card that people where mad at him when it was clearly his intentions. Not ban because of Mangadex weird politics about uploading chapters.

last edited at Apr 11, 2020 12:26PM

Maybe for some people the whole "has Reiichi actually cheated" thing is dragged. Personally I don't feel like it, because there is a good reason for it.
It is about how Kaoru deals with the situation. It is aligned with her personality of avoiding uncomfortable situations, just like her mom did when she was sick. The situation is dragged because Kaoru is dragging it.

Kaoru's whole point is not just loneliness and dependency, it's also her weak resolve.
Although I don't like her much, I find interesting reading about her, because it is a representation of a weak and maybe coward main character, something you don't come across in stories.
The whole ambivalence of whether there was a cheating is a great way to bring out Kaoru's true personality on the surface and even force her to change. If the situation was resolved fast, Kaoru would soon go back to her old ways.
Reiichi cheating-she would go back to how she was after her mom died.
Reiichi not cheating- keep living like she did during their first married days, and keep being insecure of whether he actually loves her or just married her out of obligation. Wasting years like that.

Oh I like the way you put it at the end, very Schrödinger's cat theory like.... just open the damn box Kaoru!!!!!

Honestly never in my life have I seen such hate over a translating team

Sure someone don't know about the SSSSS team

Who dat

It's better if you don't know.

Now I'm intrigued

Shitty-meme translations, translating only the chapter he like, translate the chapter in random order. He can translate Ch.63 and just after put Ch.56. Has uploaded for several mangas the last chapter, even if a team was working on it. Act like a troll, saying that people are free to ignore him. It's probably the most hated and blocked person on Mangadex for all those causes. Also has play the victim card that people where mad at him when it was clearly his intentions. Not ban because of Mangadex weird politics about uploading chapters.

OMG what
This sounds like science fiction

Maybe for some people the whole "has Reiichi actually cheated" thing is dragged. Personally I don't feel like it, because there is a good reason for it.
It is about how Kaoru deals with the situation. It is aligned with her personality of avoiding uncomfortable situations, just like her mom did when she was sick. The situation is dragged because Kaoru is dragging it.

Kaoru's whole point is not just loneliness and dependency, it's also her weak resolve.
Although I don't like her much, I find interesting reading about her, because it is a representation of a weak and maybe coward main character, something you don't come across in stories.
The whole ambivalence of whether there was a cheating is a great way to bring out Kaoru's true personality on the surface and even force her to change. If the situation was resolved fast, Kaoru would soon go back to her old ways.
Reiichi cheating-she would go back to how she was after her mom died.
Reiichi not cheating- keep living like she did during their first married days, and keep being insecure of whether he actually loves her or just married her out of obligation. Wasting years like that.

It's an interesting theory that characterization of Kaoru is the purpose of withholding confirmation of the cheating.

But Kaoru only knows: a) that she saw her husband and Risako together; b) that Risako lied about seeing Reiichi recently.

Much of the evidence about the possible cheating, and much of what makes the issue confusing, is known only to the audience, not to Kaoru:

• Reiichi's guilty-sounding phone call at the hospital.
• Risako's casual admission to Uta that she was with Reiichi when Kaoru had her accident.
• Risako's (possible) sexual attraction to Kaoru.

None of that plays into how Kaoru does or doesn't deal with the possibility that her husband is cheating--it just tosses signals to the audience going in several different directions.

@Michykat

I think I just turned that post of yours into comedy gold by saying "Lesbians are coming" in Ned Stark's voice.

Oh man!!! That just became even more epic.

( ╹▽╹ )

The whole ambivalence of whether there was a cheating is a great way to bring out Kaoru's true personality on the surface and even force her to change. If the situation was resolved fast, Kaoru would soon go back to her old ways.
Reiichi cheating-she would go back to how she was after her mom died.
Reiichi not cheating- keep living like she did during their first married days, and keep being insecure of whether he actually loves her or just married her out of obligation. Wasting years like that.

It's an interesting theory that characterization of Kaoru is the purpose of withholding confirmation of the cheating.

But Kaoru only knows: a) that she saw her husband and Risako together; b) that Risako lied about seeing Reiichi recently.

Much of the evidence about the possible cheating, and much of what makes the issue confusing, is known only to the audience, not to Kaoru:

• Reiichi's guilty-sounding phone call at the hospital.
• Risako's casual admission to Uta that she was with Reiichi when Kaoru had her accident.
• Risako's (possible) sexual attraction to Kaoru.

None of that plays into how Kaoru does or doesn't deal with the possibility that her husband is cheating--it just tosses signals to the audience going in several different directions.

The average audience member isn't coming from the same place as Kaoru (emotionally, or in terms of knowledge), in order for them not to dismiss her fears as overreaction, we get told a bit more so we can emphasise with her uncertainty.

As others have pointed out there is a difference between contradictory and incomplete - what we "know" from the story is internally consistent, but incomplete - it is the divergent speculation about the missing parts that are contradictory.
All stories are incomplete (authors aren't omniscient, world building will always have holes), but in what you might call "normal" story telling authors deliberately draw attention away from the holes to create the illusion of completeness. "Good writing" and "feels complete" aren't the same thing, there are many styles (particularly those leaning towards first person perspective) that deliberately dwell on incompleteness and inconsistency, eg "unreliable narrator" is absolutely a thing, while detective mysteries (and even dramas) use misleading partial information all the time.

It’s clear there are two schools of thought on this series—one sees it as executing a sophisticated narrative long game, the other sees it as meandering, erratically focused, and ad hoc in its plot developments.

Readers have done a fine job talking inconsistencies into complexities; after a lifetime of studying experimental storytelling in literature and especially in comics, I see little convincing evidence of that complexity on the pages of the text itself.

It strikes me that Reiichi cheating or not cheating is almost a detail at this point. Even if he was doing it for work, sometimes you gotta draw the line, especially if your wife wants you around more. My mom actually had problems with my dad over this, and she's not AT ALL like Kaoru (he ended up changing jobs and we moved to a different state).

They are a couple with problems, and like a lot of couples where cheating may or may not be happening, it's not really the crux of the issue.

As for the Kaoru/Uta thing, the one part of Kaoru we have hardly touched on is her sexual identity. Her emotional needs completely overshadow any sexual aspect in this story, but ultimately to be in a sexual relationship you need to be, you know, sexual? In a sense that may be the root of the issue with Kaoru and Reiichi, even if he likes her as a childhood friend, if he can't hold down the other side of a couple relationship it ain't gonna work. And if Uta can, and Kaoru feels it, well...

It strikes me that Reiichi cheating or not cheating is almost a detail at this point. Even if he was doing it for work, sometimes you gotta draw the line, especially if your wife wants you around more.

We're talking Japan here. The perpetually-absent sarariman father is such a recurring cliché for a reason in their entertainement...

It strikes me that Reiichi cheating or not cheating is almost a detail at this point. Even if he was doing it for work, sometimes you gotta draw the line, especially if your wife wants you around more.

We're talking Japan here. The perpetually-absent sarariman father is such a recurring cliché for a reason in their entertainement...

Its not just physical absence, he blows her off when he is home too.

It’s clear there are two schools of thought on this series—one sees it as executing a sophisticated narrative long game, the other sees it as meandering, erratically focused, and ad hoc in its plot developments.

Readers have done a fine job talking inconsistencies into complexities; after a lifetime of studying experimental storytelling in literature and especially in comics, I see little convincing evidence of that complexity on the pages of the text itself.

There is a major hole in your classification tree - that the author is trying a complex approach but isn't succeeding (from your perspective, anyway).

Ad-hoc stories (which are a legitimate genre) require incredible effort to keep the "facts" consistent, just look at the way inconsistencies creep into TV series, and into prequels/sequels in franchises that weren't originally planned that way. We just aren't seeing that kind of inconsistency - our interpretations may be constantly shifting, but the story facts always end up dovetailing with what we already know, and with the development of the characters. It seems very unlikely the author could do this if they are jumping back and forth on a whim and pulling story out of their ass.

This is very much an emotional story, the objective plot is little more than scenery against which the emotional plot plays out. eg It doesn't even matter if Reiichi is cheating or not, just that Kaoru has lost faith in her marriage. Just look at Citrus, 10 volumes, 41 chapters and SFA actually happened, or was revealed; the entire story was in the meandering emotional journey of the protagonists.

In contrast we can look at traditional western comics, where objective plot developments are obligatory, they end up in a complete clusterfuck of retcons, reboots and AUs because that "skillful" directed development simply isn't sustainable for a long running story.

How I wish Dynasty had a button to like comments and follow users. Need it so badly. ^_^

We have since seen that her parents are, basically, a couple of unfeeling pricks. Were they always this way? If so, why was Uta a happy, cheerful kid until relatively recently? Or did something happen, perhaps related to whatever bad happened regarding Kaoru's mother, that alienated them and caused them to ignore Uta? Were the "hardships" simply having to live with asshole parents who then broke up, or did something happen that was more specific to Uta herself?

I'm not sure that it needs explaining. But a lot can be inferred with common sense. The thing about that sort of person is that they are fine as long as things go well, you really only see what they are lacking when the sh*t hits the fan and they are MIA (or even actively bad). It is also important to note that for most of her childhood she had both Reiichi and Kaoru - Reiichi until he went to Uni; Kaoru until her mother died, unfortunately at the exact same time as things would have fallen apart with Uta's parents.