Forum › Giniro no Genders discussion

Jo
joined Jan 1, 2019

That was brave, there is no way in Hell I could go through that list and claim I listen to any one of them. Except Amuro, I do love me some Namie.

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

^ Heh, true.
New volume, great! Knowing Hachimitsu, we'll prolly get the next chapters quite fast.

Don't%20forget%20the%20best%20girl
joined Jul 22, 2018

Damn, Asa is so wholesome

Mostly%20sunny
joined Oct 26, 2016

Damn, mom got DECKED

nice

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Lol... probably the case of a bisexual girl that was just fooling around for a time.

Everyone hates bi people. ;)

The author sure loves his cliches.

last edited at Dec 3, 2019 6:58AM

Arqxpgpd_700w_0
joined Apr 2, 2018

(https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#11)
(https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#12)
(https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#13)
(https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#14)https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#15)
(https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#16)
(https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/giniro_no_genders_ch18#17)

^ Someone send these images to Damares* see!

This is how the Brazilian says when this situation happens: "the 'traditional conservative family' didn't like it!" ¯ \ _ (ツ) _ / ¯

  • refers to Damares Alves, Minister of Family, Women and Human Rights in the Jair Bolsonaro government (currently without a party).
joined Dec 17, 2018

Are there going to be new chapters soon?

4
joined Nov 21, 2018

Huh, this one was a long time coming.

Utena%20rose%20white%20200x200
joined Mar 28, 2014

Wow, what an intense chapter

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Portraying the Lesbian as a desperate jealous bitch, check.
Portraying the Gay guy as an obsessed psycho, check.
Portraying the Bisexual as a fickle person taking other people's feelings as "whatever", check.
Portraying the crossdresser as a sissy, check.

Now, I wonder how the Trans guy, Sumon, will be portrayed...

There must be a cliche out there that fits him, I'm sure...

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Jumping to conclusions much, Sumon? How is crossdressing a proof he identifies as female? As far as the story went, he's a straight/bicurious male who enjoys crossdressing.

I hope it's not a cue for "Gin self reflecting and deciding that, yes, he feels like he should be a girl!"

That will make your gay psycho friend sad!

It would make Gin a lot less interesting.

This author clearly isn't interested by the LGBT theme. His characters are cardboard cuts.

last edited at May 21, 2020 4:46AM

bubbleteabird
F6c7d5d1-1d08-49c3-974d-d6169caf13f6
joined May 8, 2017

Wow, I was so anxious for Gin when Gin started taking off the wig. Fortunately, Sumon did not react negatively.

Utena%20rose%20white%20200x200
joined Mar 28, 2014

Jumping to conclusions much, Sumon? How is crossdressing a proof he identifies as female? As far as the story went, he's a straight/bicurious male who enjoys crossdressing.

I hope it's not a cue for "Gin self reflecting and deciding that, yes, he feels like he should be a girl!"

I quite doubt that to be honest. Gin has been strongly established as a straight male cross-dresser. He might be questioning himself here and there based on the characters he interacts with, but he's clearly attracted to female bodies and he himself firmly identifies himself as a guy who likes cross-dressing.

That will make your gay psycho friend sad!

Oh come on, what makes you jump to this conclusion? As in, what makes you see Gin's friend as a psycho?

This author clearly isn't interested by the LGBT theme.

Is there some proper, saint, if you will, way of being interested by the LGBT theme?

His characters are cardboard cuts.

How is it so? I see a lot of resemblance in this author's characters to people around me, regardless of their identity and sexuality by the way. In fact, this manga feels a lot more realistic than many others in that respect.

Nevri Uploader
Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

Ugh...

takachi posted:

Oh come on, what makes you jump to this conclusion? As in, what makes you see Gin's friend as a psycho?

She was making a joke how the gay friend is in love with Gin and wants to fuck him and needs to struggle with his desires every night and only fapping to his friend can stop him from raping Gin. Representing homosexuals as people who struggle with their desires 24/7 and only think about sex isn't exactly very positive way to show them as people.

Is there some proper, saint, if you will, way of being interested by the LGBT theme?

"Saint" lol. How about not portraying them only as weirdos and terrible people for starters?

In fact, this manga feels a lot more realistic than many others in that respect.

I'm sorry, but since when getting almost raped and then saved by the girl so you'll only get blackmailed with photos about your rape, forced to dress as a girl when going to school and being told to make a guy fall in love with you, by lesbian that had bad experiences and now wants to get revenge on guy that stole girl she liked from her (I believe that was the deal with lesbian character) more realistic than many other stories? If that's the more realistic one, I'm afraid to read less realistic works...

Utena%20rose%20white%20200x200
joined Mar 28, 2014

takachi posted:

Oh come on, what makes you jump to this conclusion? As in, what makes you see Gin's friend as a psycho?

She was making a joke how the gay friend is in love with Gin and wants to fuck him and needs to struggle with his desires every night and only fapping to his friend can stop him from raping Gin. Representing homosexuals as people who struggle with their desires 24/7 and only think about sex isn't exactly very positive way to show them as people.

So where's the joke? I don't get it tbh. Also, I don't see how it represents anything about homosexuals, if anything it represents a male desire for sexual intercourse/masturbation, likely driven by high-level of androgens. We haven't seen Gin's friend from other sides much, so I have no idea how one can make a fair evaluation/judgement of his true character given such a narrow perspective. That's just unreasonable labelling IMO.

Is there some proper, saint, if you will, way of being interested by the LGBT theme?

"Saint" lol. How about not portraying them only as weirdos and terrible people for starters?

Are you saying all manga that you read portrays the LGBT characters as weirdos or terrible people and not the other way? Actually, why of all things do LGBT characters have to be portrayed as saints? That is plain, boring, cardboard, and unrealistic. Can't they just be portrayed as humans? With their positive and negative sides regardless of their sexuality and identity?

In fact, this manga feels a lot more realistic than many others in that respect.

I'm sorry, but since when getting almost raped and then saved by the girl so you'll only get blackmailed with photos about your rape, forced to dress as a girl when going to school and being told to make a guy fall in love with you, by lesbian that had bad experiences and now wants to get revenge on guy that stole girl she liked from her (I believe that was the deal with lesbian character) more realistic than many other stories? If that's the more realistic one, I'm afraid to read less realistic works...

First of all, I wrote "in that respect" referring to characters, not the plot devices driving the story, which does indeed end up being artificially exaggerated. And that is fine as it creates the situations in which the characters act to express some of their traits in front of the reader.

White%20rose%20index
joined Aug 16, 2018

Yay, another chapter! Hachimitsu likes to release whole volumes instead of magazine-scanned chapters, so we can expect all the remaining chapters in this latest book to be out soon!

bubbleteabird
F6c7d5d1-1d08-49c3-974d-d6169caf13f6
joined May 8, 2017

Are you saying all manga that you read portrays the LGBT characters as weirdos or terrible people and not the other way? Actually, why of all things do LGBT characters have to be portrayed as saints? That is plain, boring, cardboard, and unrealistic. Can't they just be portrayed as humans? With their positive and negative sides regardless of their sexuality and identity?

Sorry for intruding on this argument, but I think it is ironic for you to say, "With their positive and negative sides regardless of their sexuality and identity?" when the author does not write the characters that way. Because, fundamentally, this manga's characters' flaws all tie in with their sexuality and identity; the butch lesbian's blackmailing of MC stems from her lesbian desire for the other dance girl; the MC's gay friend's masturbation and nipple-licking stems from his pent-up homosexuality; the bisexual girl's pursuit of new partners stems from her bisexuality. These characters literally act on their sexuality and identity; the author literally based their dominant personalities off of inhibiting LGBT stereotypes. And your question, "Can't they just be portrayed as humans?" should be redirected towards the author.

(But anyway, I'll still be reading this manga because it is just bewitching how over-the-top it can be :P)

Anyway, have a nice day!

Nevri Uploader
Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

takachi posted:

So where's the joke?

That's why Nya-chan called him psycho.

Also, I don't see how it represents anything about homosexuals, if anything it represents a male desire for sexual intercourse/masturbation, likely driven by high-level of androgens.

Except you're forgetting that homosexuals are often stereotyped as very sex driven and dangerous to be around, exactly because there's the assumption that all they can think about is fucking every person of the same gender they see and it takes all their effort to suppress those urges to avoid turning into uncontrollable rapists. Exactly how he's portrayed here. While men are often portrayed to always wanting/thinking about sex, they're never demonized to such degree and portrayed as if their simple existence is a danger.

We haven't seen Gin's friend from other sides much, so I have no idea how one can make a fair evaluation/judgement of his true character given such a narrow perspective.

And that's exactly the issue. He barely gets any spotlight/character and yet the one thing author goes out of their way to portray is how much he agonizes about not being able to fuck Gin. That's exactly portraying homosexuals as 1 dimensional stereotypes.

Are you saying all manga that you read portrays the LGBT characters as weirdos or terrible people and not the other way?

I never said so, but you need to be incredibly ignorant to think that it never was a common issue in the media. For very long time LGBT people were rarely portrayed in media and when they did, they were almost always portrayed as a villains. For the longest time, being gay/lesbian etc. was considered a villain trait, because only those characters exhibited those traits. It got better overtime, but tendency to portraying LGBT characters in negative light is still pretty common one. We barely have characters that have other role first and foremost and are LGBT second (it's just part of their identity). Most of the time, those characters are written as LGBT first and their being LGBT is entire focus on their character. I'd say it's a long way before LGBT characters are normalized in media as just people first.

Actually, why of all things do LGBT characters have to be portrayed as saints? That is plain, boring, cardboard, and unrealistic. Can't they just be portrayed as humans? With their positive and negative sides regardless of their sexuality and identity?

You're missing the point, since nobody even argued they're supposed to be only saints and you clung to it for some reason. Anyway, I actually share your perspective on that. I think LGBT characters should be portrayed both ways. The issue is, historically they were only portrayed in negative way for very long time, so now people try to overcorrect it by never portraying them in negative way at all. While getting more positive representation is a good thing, studios etc. who try to score on woke points, now pretty much mandates that you can't see LGBT characters doing anything considered bad, ever. So it's nice LGBT characters are not delegated to being bad guys by default anymore, they're only being portrayed in good light and any show that have LGBT character shown doing something bad is automatically criticized by people who lived through those dark times. So we have issue with this work exactly because it seems to be doing the same thing those old shows did, by portraying all LGBT people only in bad light.

plot devices driving the story, which does indeed end up being artificially exaggerated. And that is fine as it creates the situations in which the characters act to express some of their traits in front of the reader.

You say it's "only initial premise and way to get story going". I say "the fact you need to do it in order to get story going in the first place is the entire issue".

EDIT/ bubbleteabird My point exactly.

last edited at May 21, 2020 3:04PM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

I called him a psycho because of his behavior? If you meet people acting like him in real life, I hope you steer clear from them. I distinctly feel that Gin is in danger around him.

This is a normal behavior?. If I see someone doing this, I'd be genuinely scared. I think the author is doing a disservice to gay guys in general (even if such people exist).

I called these characters cardboard cuts because their sexuality defines their personality in the worst possible way, with negative cliches.

The author took the letters L.G.B.T. (as emphasized on the 1st page) and made characters around these sexual orientations. It looks like some editor asked him to make a manga about LGBT and he took it literally.

Sumon seems to be the most "normal" (as in with a stable personality) character (for now) because his "condition" isn't a sexual orientation in itself, so there's no trope attached to him yet.

I hope author doesn't introduce a "real" MTF. It'll be a massacre.

But I don't get past him to construe Gin as a MTF.

last edited at May 21, 2020 2:56PM

White%20rose%20index
joined Aug 16, 2018

But I don't get past him to construe Gin as a MTF.

That's simply not going to happen.

If you really believe what you said, there's the problem with your reading comprehension.

Ke_Zukulenzia
joined Jul 23, 2019

The part where he removes his wig in the café reminded me of the end of the movie Tootsie. This kind of scene always make me panic. I was almost jumping on my seat and yelling "Nooo!!! Not in front of everyone you dork!!!!!!!" lol

Utenaanthy01
joined Aug 4, 2018

I see a lot of resemblance in this author's characters to people around me, regardless of their identity and sexuality by the way. In fact, this manga feels a lot more realistic than many others in that respect.

I feel the same way.

I wrote "in that respect" referring to characters, not the plot devices driving the story, which does indeed end up being artificially exaggerated. And that is fine as it creates the situations in which the characters act to express some of their traits in front of the reader.

Well... yes. It's, like, one of the basic, most universal tools of narration. It amazes me that there actually was a need to explain it.

Kaseyamada
joined Jun 28, 2019

Jumping to conclusions much, Sumon? How is crossdressing a proof he identifies as female? As far as the story went, he's a straight/bicurious male who enjoys crossdressing.

I hope it's not a cue for "Gin self reflecting and deciding that, yes, he feels like he should be a girl!"

I quite doubt that to be honest. Gin has been strongly established as a straight male cross-dresser. He might be questioning himself here and there based on the characters he interacts with, but he's clearly attracted to female bodies and he himself firmly identifies himself as a guy who likes cross-dressing.

That will make your gay psycho friend sad!

Oh come on, what makes you jump to this conclusion? As in, what makes you see Gin's friend as a psycho?

This author clearly isn't interested by the LGBT theme.

Is there some proper, saint, if you will, way of being interested by the LGBT theme?

His characters are cardboard cuts.

How is it so? I see a lot of resemblance in this author's characters to people around me, regardless of their identity and sexuality by the way. In fact, this manga feels a lot more realistic than many others in that respect.

Takachi, thank you so much for your posts. I'm really happy that there are other people here who understand and appreciate this manga. "Realistic" is, indeed, the word. This level of realism is not found anymore in the West, where political correction has blighted the media and turned all LGBT characters who appear in fictional works into stuffed models: show after show, movie after movie, it's always the same puppets dancing always the same jig. The worst thing is that the taste of the public has been so badly vitiated that, when someone like a Japanese author (blissfully free of the pc taint) writes a serious and truthful story about LGBT youths, a great many Western readers get so incensed they start lambasting it as wrong and faulty — simply because it clashes with the trite, stale clichés to which they are used. It's like watching an oil spill over clear water, it's sad to witness.

last edited at May 21, 2020 4:47PM

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

White Rose posted:

But I don't get past him to construe Gin as a MTF.

That's simply not going to happen.

If you really believe what you said, there's the problem with your reading comprehension.

That was my point since the beginning. Some people earlier in this thread said we needed to call Gin "she", because they are a transwoman.

I never agreed to that since everything points to Gin to be "just" a crossdresser enjoying the attention and clearly cismale and straight. I don't have any reading comprehension problem.

But I'm not sure it's intentional from the author, since he uses tropes after tropes. The straight crossdresser doesn't fit how he narrates the other characters.

So, I hope he doesn't make Gin a lesbian transgirl, just because he needs that kind of character down the line.

last edited at May 21, 2020 5:36PM

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