I’m mostly talking about his role in the overall story: useless meddling pain in the ass.

Don't be so hard on Jun-nii - his words were one of the reasons for pushing Asuka to confess in chapter 5.

If it's necessary to establish how we got to a certain point or what the connection to a character is, then how is it stretching anything out? I'd call it crucial information.

I prefer to leave these things hinted at or open to interpretation or revealed in the current time-line.

I’m mostly talking about his role in the overall story: useless meddling pain in the ass.

Ah, well. He's that dude in a lesbian story. It was inevitable, even if he's a mellow incarnation of that trope.

If it's necessary to establish how we got to a certain point or what the connection to a character is, then how is it stretching anything out? I'd call it crucial information.

I prefer to leave these things hinted at or open to interpretation or revealed in the current time-line.

That can result in vague wishy-washy writing. Or for the latter, in exposition that has exactly the same effect as a flashback. A flashback has the advantage of actually feeling natural and a real story arc, rather than just something the characters recall and babble about.

Finding a natural way to convey such a large bulk of info in the present is not easy and usually encumbers a work more than anything. If you know a bunch of cases where it worked then those are pretty amazing.

last edited at May 11, 2019 3:50PM

I’m mostly talking about his role in the overall story: useless meddling pain in the ass.

Don't be so hard on Jun-nii - his words were one of the reasons for pushing Asuka to confess in chapter 5.

You’re right, and since this is a flashback, he’s only retroactively being a pain in the ass.

But like Pyoro suggests, the “male childhood friend who thinks he has some sort of claim on the budding lesbian,” is one of my un-favorite yuri character tropes.

last edited at May 11, 2019 3:53PM

don't get involved with the lezzie

But like Pyoro suggests, the “male childhood friend who thinks he has some sort of claim on the budding lesbian,” is one of my un-favorite yuri character tropes.

Well, would it be better if he was a girl?

also what the heck kind of claim are we talking about here? lol

Finding a natural way to convey such a large bulk of info in the present is not easy and usually encumbers a work more than anything.

What "large bulk of information"? So far I don't see anything that significantly alters any of the characters or the plot.

But like Pyoro suggests, the “male childhood friend who thinks he has some sort of claim on the budding lesbian,” is one of my un-favorite yuri character tropes.

Well, would it be better if he was a girl?

also what the heck kind of claim are we talking about here? lol

Well, it ranges from “assumes they’re going to be engaged” to instructions like “stay away from so-and-so—rumor is she’s a sexual deviant.”

I’m talking about the guys who exist mainly as yuri-blockers—from time to time we do see instances of the helpful male yuri wingman, and more power to them.

Finding a natural way to convey such a large bulk of info in the present is not easy and usually encumbers a work more than anything.

What "large bulk of information"? So far I don't see anything that significantly alters any of the characters or the plot.

1. Asuka had a sexual awakening before she even understood she was a lesbian or loved her mom (pretty important psychologically speaking).
2. Miyuki was a childhood friend/acquaintance (although that was mentioned in the present time flashback first).
3. A bunch of stuff about Miyuki's character I'm too lazy to reiterate.
4. Jun knowing about Miyuki and having warned Asuka beforehand.

EDIT: Almost forgot
5. Rui trying to distance herself from Asuka back then so she could make new friends and wouldnt rely on her. Clearly something's changed since then.

Sure some of these are easy to integrate (Jun saying something like "I warned you about her back then" or Miyuki talking about their childhood and how meeting again in middle/high school was a nice coincidence). But the flashback also isn't over yet.

It's definitely more natural to show their dynamic back then than to just talk about it. Makes the (possible) betrayal more emotional, believable and crucial.

Well, it ranges from “assumes they’re going to be engaged” to instructions like “stay away from so-and-so—rumor is she’s a sexual deviant.”

I’m talking about the guys who exist mainly as yuri-blockers—from time to time we do see instances of the helpful male yuri wingman, and more power to them.

Well we don't know why he warned her yet, so that's still uncertain at least.

Cool, but Jun doesn't really fit into this trope at all. He had a crush on Asuka and confessed, but got shut down and accepted it. He also took her reveal about her incestuous feelings surprisingly well. Most people would break off friendship right then and there, especially in prudish Japan.

last edited at May 11, 2019 4:17PM

To be honest I don't see Jun so much as a "obstacle"-type character, but as an "overprotective older brother/father" - who, granted, also tends to get into the way a bit, but is usually supposed to be viewed somewhat sympathetically and ultimately doesn't actively oppose anything (much).

Admittedly lines blur a lot there.

Either way I don't like either type anyway. ^^

To be honest I don't see Jun so much as a "obstacle"-type character, but as an "overprotective older brother/father" - who, granted, also tends to get into the way a bit, but is usually supposed to be viewed somewhat sympathetically and ultimately doesn't actively oppose anything (much).

Admittedly lines blur a lot there.

Either way I don't like either type anyway. ^^

Wholeheartedly agrees with this statement.

...I can not see this ending the way the daughter wants it to.

Same... But I'm still hoping for it

I don't get at all the monologue in page 16. What is Miyuki trying to say?

Is she implying that Asuka has chosen isolation and loneliness, and trying to tactfully hint that it's a mistake?

Probably just warning against going (further) down that route. The way she talks about the whole thing seems rather precocious for her age and has the ring of being based on some degree of personal experience, or at least bearing witness; wouldn't be surprised if we heard more about that topic soon enough.

"You shouldn't get too involved with the president." I know right, those philosopher types are the worst.

Sure, they may just start out talking about Schopenhauer, but the next thing you know it’s Kierkegaard, and that’s the sickness unto lesbian bed death . . .

im pretty ready for this whole back story arc to be over. it seems to be trying a bit too hard.

Ahhh, so happy there is an update. But u like need more. Ugh, this story is so good. Need more Ayako and asuka.

Prez is pretty cool

Maybe he's trying to warn her about something (hopefully, it's not about her sexual preferences leaning toward same sex), but "You shouldn't get too involved with the president." was poorly phrased (unless it's the translation).

It implies that he's got some some of authority over Asuka and that he's made the decision for her beforehand.

If he had just said something like "by the way, I think there's something you should know about the President...", it would have been more appropriate.

Maybe he's trying to warn her about something (hopefully, it's not about her sexual preferences leaning toward same sex), but "You shouldn't get too involved with the president." was poorly phrased (unless it's the translation).

It implies that he's got some some of authority over Asuka and that he's made the decision for her beforehand.

If he had just said something like "by the way, I think there's something you should know about the President...", it would have been more appropriate.

My guess is that she is playing around with a lot of people. Slut rumors are always bad. Well that's just one possibility, but I kinda doubt he is worried about sexuality here.

"You should not" is not the same as "you can't/aren't allowed to", come on.

BugDevil posted:

"You should not" is not the same as "you can't/aren't allowed to", come on.

Technically, no.

But, come on, it's typically the phrasing adults use to tell kids to not do something for their own good. In the context of having a friendship with someone, it's going overboard.

Most of the time i see that sentence in manga, "you shouldn't get involved with so and so", it's typically because the person in question is a "nail that sticks out" for various reasons, ranging from "they are a sexual deviant", "they sleep around" to "their family is poor/strange/not normal", and we can't have that kind of people around.

Maybe he's justified and since it's a flashback, we know that Asuka "suffered" because of the President, but every failure is a learning experience that makes you grow up and suffering is sometimes better than being sheltered, especially when it comes to relationships.

BugDevil posted:

"You should not" is not the same as "you can't/aren't allowed to", come on.

Technically, no.

But, come on, it's typically the phrasing adults use to tell kids to not do something for their own good. In the context of having a friendship with someone, it's going overboard.

Most of the time i see that sentence in manga, "you shouldn't get involved with so and so", it's typically because the person in question is a "nail that sticks out" for various reasons, ranging from "they are a sexual deviant", "they sleep around" to "their family is poor/strange/not normal", and we can't have that kind of people around.

Maybe he's justified and since it's a flashback, we know that Asuka "suffered" because of the President, but every failure is a learning experience that makes you grow up and suffering is sometimes better than being sheltered, especially when it comes to relationships.

This is Japan we are talking about though, so anything beyond the norm is treated as undesirable. So it's not really something unexpected. Unless there are very specific reasons to not get associated with her, it might as well just be a standard warning anyone could give.

All I'm opposing here is the "authority" aspect. I doubt Jun meant it that way. It was just advice.

"You shouldn't get too involved with the president." I know right, those philosopher types are the worst.

I know this is a joke but amateur philosophers are in fact incredibly annoying.

isn't it rude to say "no" outright in japan? thats why you see translations of people responding to a question with "it's a little [inconvenient]..." afaik that is the polite way to say "no" to a request.

i wonder if telling her "you can not" vs "you should not" is similar here? my japanese is still very rudimentary though so i'm not sure.

That warning. I just found this and I am loving this. I finally found something else I can enjoy.

How long can you hide from what you really are?

...

Not for very long

last edited at May 14, 2019 10:56PM