You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them,

An example of a self-enacting statement.

Although ironic and hypocritical, it doesn't change the underlying truth in the statement.

You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them,

An example of a self-enacting statement.

Although ironic and hypocritical, it doesn't change the underlying truth in the statement.

Look, we asked for the argument in favor of the "platonic" reading, and we got a bunch of stuff that amounted to: "Well, if you explain away everything that looks like something else, it could be platonic."

I "accept" that the person holds that opinion. I also think that the opinion is based on a methodical misreading of the text and a refusal to draw first-order inferences from the textual evidence.

Earlier in the series there was arguably some ambiguity in the nature of the relationship between Kasumi and Sakurako, but recent chapters have been increasingly explicit about how the two of them see that relationship--as permanent, monogamous, and loving--and I hardly think it's "insulting" to find that attempts to explain away that text itself are unconvincing.

You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them,

An example of a self-enacting statement.

Although ironic and hypocritical, it doesn't change the underlying truth in the statement.

Honestly, I find Nyangomaru's (is that their profile name?) statement true for all people involved on either side. Very much including Nyangomaru themselves.

@ Bugdevil

You're twist my words and say I'm ignorant, even though I said, "I'm not saying that's impossible for Kasumi to have romantic feelings for Sakurako, but it could also be platonic." Who can not accept that it may be possible that she has platonic feelings for Sakurako !? You and not me!

And no, there does not have to be a sexual act, but I just do not feel like Kasumi is in love with Sakurako!
But I understand now, your opinions are facts for you, just like the kiss on the CHEEK.

I agree that Kasumi's feelings for Sakurako could be platonic, but that doesn't preclude her loving her.

That's all what i wanted to say.

I know I'm kinda retreading territory you already covered, but while you made a strong argument for why it's -not- a cheek kiss, I really wanted to cover that even if it was, it's still definitely romantic.

No no, it's fine, I actually prefer your point. I just can't see that reaching someone who is with their head in the sand... below a layer of concrete.

PS: I read that as "Faraday Cat". That's equally parts disturbing and hilarious.

http://doktorjohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/electric-cat.jpg

@Nayngomaru
Okay, if the argument was just "There is a faint possibility, 1 to 1 million, thanks to the theory of probability, that Kasumi has platonic feelings for Sakurako" I wouldn't even be arguing here.

The issue is that you actually believe it's true despite mountains of contradicting evidence. You are simply ignoring the obvious things to keep up a completely ludicrous "possibility". Saying "She might love Sakurako, but I don't think so" doesn't change that you are wrong. You are admitting a possibility you don't believe in. If that is what you want from us, to simply state that the possibility we all see clearly contradicted all the time, is there, then it's rather pointless indeed.

I can say that there is a completely unlikely possibility that pigs can fly, but common sense dictates they don't and until I see evidence of flying pigs I won't actually consider it. If you want the shallow victory of someone saying "Pigs could theoretically fly if the laws of physics changed all of a sudden", then by all means take it. You are so very right.

PS: I read that as "Faraday Cat". That's equally parts disturbing and hilarious.

http://doktorjohn.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/electric-cat.jpg

lol

last edited at May 7, 2019 4:48PM

I feel a remarkable sense of deja vu. Except I was sorry for Nyangomaru. As long as we are all sorry...
I can also feel another deja vu coming with the response.

No, there won't coming a response, because it is meaningless.
So, let's end this. You're all too stupid to accept opinions from other people, and you're offended and insulting them, so, good job!

So I need to explain something to you.

Thinking someone is wrong about something? Not an insult. Saying they're wrong? Not an insult. Saying they aren't listening to your arguments when they visibly aren't? Also not an insult. Saying you have failed to understand things you have visibly exhibited a lack of understanding of? Also. Not. An. Insult.

Calling someone stupid? Explicitly an insult.

So, y'know. Bite me.

You're even say there's certain way to do a cheek kiss, it's just stupid. #facepalm

What I said, and what you are too dishonest or deluded to acknowledge, is that there is a way that cheek kisses are commonly done, that is part of their nature as a platonic gesture. Aaaaand I entered into evidence exhibit A: Every goddamned picture of a cheek kiss ever. But I also said hey, ignore that, and proceeded to demolish your attempt to rationalize away the kiss as aromantic -anyway-, but I doubt you even read my entire post, because you didn't address any of my points in any serious way.

last edited at May 7, 2019 5:02PM

Okay, I'm cutting this short. Or rather, not nearly short enough. People are getting personal and condescending on both sides of the issue, and I'm now forced to step in and say KNOCK IT OFF.

No more. The discussion aobut whether this series is yuri, subtext, or totally platonic is over with no further resolution in any direction. You get the series you get and you'll keep the debate to yourselves. Hopefully we're all on the same page.

Okay, I'm cutting this short. Or rather, not nearly short enough. People are getting personal and condescending on both sides of the issue, and I'm now forced to step in and say KNOCK IT OFF.

No more. The discussion aobut whether this series is yuri, subtext, or totally platonic is over with no further resolution in any direction. You get the series you get and you'll keep the debate to yourselves. Hopefully we're all on the same page.

Sry, i saw it after my last post

Okay, I'm cutting this short. Or rather, not nearly short enough. People are getting personal and condescending on both sides of the issue, and I'm now forced to step in and say KNOCK IT OFF.

No more. The discussion aobut whether this series is yuri, subtext, or totally platonic is over with no further resolution in any direction. You get the series you get and you'll keep the debate to yourselves. Hopefully we're all on the same page.

Sry, i saw it after my last post

It's okay. I removed the post because all it's going to do is tempt people to continue replying, and that's what I want to avoid. We're at the point where not only the horse is reduced to its component atoms, but the very concept of horses is taking damage.

On a completely different note from the latest debate...

I read the other day a short oneshot manga named Jewels, about the life of two girls in love. This manga, in only a few pages, told us the story of how they were childhood friends, then classmates through grade and mid school; how they started dating in high school, and continued all through college; how they came out to their supporting friends, and started living together after college; how they got married, with the blessing of their families; and, finally, how they happily stayed together for the rest of their lives (a couple of panels show them as really old grannies still loving each other and living together). Nothing else happens: the story is made only of vignettes of their daily lives, happy and waffy, from childhood to old age. The reactions of the readers were mostly positive (pretty much everyone loved it) but there were also negative comments on the lack of conflict. "This worked only because it was so short," they said, "but it wouldn't do for a long series." A few choice excerpts:

The most heartwarming about this story is the total lack of angst. It can only work for a short story though.

*

You could have the exact same story elements in a series, though. There would need to be added conflict of course.

*

What we have here would be a framework in a longer piece, tonnes of space to fit in all the little, and sometimes big, things a person, or a couple, faces in their lives.

*

It would need to make the characters miserable for the sake of keeping things "interesting".

*

That could easily arise out of their careers, personal conflicts with others, maybe friends or coworkers who don't accept them, etc.

LMAO ^^
After 56 chapters of happy, conflict-free SakuKasu bliss, I can only shake my head at the naiveté of those comments. If I ever write an article about A Room for Two, I will begin with the words journalists of old liked to use to start a story about some feat of amazing prowess: "'It can't be done!' they all said."

And then I will tell how, hot patootie, bless my soul, it was done!!!

@Fairypixie24
Well I don't know how far into the slice-of-life and 4koma scene these readers got, but there are quite a few angst free works out there which only focus on daily life and comedic scenarios. SOL is not synonymous with drama.

Conflict is whatever you want it to be. A room for two does have conflicts. They are simply not big or dramatic. Kasumi being grossed out by Sakurako's weird Kasumi themed study texbooks and throwing them away. Kasumi eliminating virtual Kasumi and Sakurako actually getting mad at her for it. HIna arguing with Saku all the time. Worrying whether Saku can make it to the same University as Kasumi.

These are all minor conflicts and hurdles, things that keep the daily slice-of-life interesting. Without any contradictions or struggles, life is meaningless. Lest people start to vegetate without drive or purpose.
What isn't needed to keep a story interesting is angst or drama. Those should just be modifiers, never the foundation.

These are all minor conflicts and hurdles, things that keep the daily slice-of-life interesting.

Heh. I was going to argue that those examples look more like jokes than conflict to me... but you did say that "conflict is whatever you want it to be" and that pretty much precludes discussion, so whatevs.

These are all minor conflicts and hurdles, things that keep the daily slice-of-life interesting.

Heh. I was going to argue that those examples look more like jokes than conflict to me... but you did say that "conflict is whatever you want it to be" and that pretty much precludes discussion, so whatevs.

All that's required for a narrative conflict is for a character to have a goal they're trying to achieve.

"Getting Kasumi to class on time" is as much a conflict as "destroying the One Ring of Sauron."

All that's required for a narrative conflict is for a character to have a goal they're trying to achieve.

"Getting Kasumi to class on time" is as much a conflict as "destroying the One Ring of Sauron."

Just not quite as easy.

These are all minor conflicts and hurdles, things that keep the daily slice-of-life interesting.

Heh. I was going to argue that those examples look more like jokes than conflict to me... but you did say that "conflict is whatever you want it to be" and that pretty much precludes discussion, so whatevs.

Well, even if you ignore my generalization, why can a joke not be a conflict too? Most comedy is centered around conflict in fact, mostly based on suffering. Humor often depends on one side having something negative happen to them in some way.

A room for two's conflicts are not dwelled on for long. They are either instantly solved or ignored or stay very lowkey in the background (Like the definition of Sakurako's and Kasumi's relationship. That has been a constant issue for both of them since halfway through the manga).

last edited at May 8, 2019 4:55PM

So, in the recent argument about the nature of yuri in this manga, some of you argued that Sakurako and Kasumi became a romantic couple halfway through the story (around volume three/four), while others contested that there has never been anything romantic between them and they are just good friends. Then... it looks like nobody agrees with my interpretation of the story, where they have been in a relationship since chapter 1?

Bah! Shikata ga nai ne... I'll just go sit in a corner, reread all ARFT and ignore everyone. Hmph.

So, in the recent argument about the nature of yuri in this manga...

This would have been an excellent place to hit the back button.

So, in the recent argument about the nature of yuri in this manga...

This would have been an excellent place to hit the back button.

As soon as my computer is repaired, I'm gonna make a video showing that recent argument, but in countryball form. Once I upload it on YouTube and link to it on Dynasty (still deciding whether to do so here, or on Dynasty Cafe, or both), it's gonna be rewind time.

Dynasty Cafe

I've heard people talk before about taking arguments and discussions to the "Cafe." But I don't know where it is.
I'm kind of a newbie in this forum...
Can someone give me a link?

Dynasty Cafe

I've heard people talk before about taking arguments and discussions to the "Cafe." But I don't know where it is.
I'm kind of a newbie in this forum...
Can someone give me a link?

Here you go.

Dynasty Cafe

I've heard people talk before about taking arguments and discussions to the "Cafe." But I don't know where it is.
I'm kind of a newbie in this forum...
Can someone give me a link?

Here you go.

Thanks! :-D

Sakurako has yet to meet her new roommate. Then, the girl arrives... and Sakurako can't believe her eyes: she's an ABSOLUTE GODDESS! A stunning blonde beauty with the body of a supermodel, big firm boobs, flawlessly fair skin, perfect shapely legs, a sexy round butt and a face so pretty it's breathtaking! And yes, she's only 15, just like Sakurako. Our poor Sakurako is so stupefied she even wonders if they are the same species! Like, she's Homo Sapiens Sapiens, but Kasumi (that's her roommate's name) must be Homo Perfectis Divinis or something!

You'd have thought Kasumi's calling should naturally have been to become the trophy wife of some hunky multimillionaire stud -- and forever enjoy a delicious life of pleasure, luxury and dolce far niente.

Sakurako can't believe her eyes: she's an ABSOLUTE GODDESS! A stunning blonde beauty with the body of a supermodel, big firm boobs, flawlessly fair skin, perfect shapely legs, a sexy round butt and a face so pretty it's breathtaking! And yes, she's only 15, just like Sakurako. Our poor Sakurako is so stupefied she even wonders if they are the same species! Like, she's Homo Sapiens Sapiens, but Kasumi (that's her roommate's name) must be Homo Perfectis Divinis or something!

You'd have thought Kasumi's calling should naturally have been to become the trophy wife of some hunky multimillionaire stud -- and forever enjoy a delicious life of pleasure, luxury and dolce far niente.

Yes, exactly: that would be the most likely choice of path, in real life, for someone with Kasumi's looks. That's why I described this manga as a simple lesbian wish-fulfillment story with a main focus on Sakurako.

That kind of talk (let's not call it objectification for the sake of peace), does kinda make me wonder how some people really see this story.

Do they identify with Sakurako and indeed see this as some sort of "lesbian wish fulfillment story" which would imply Kasumi is the ideal object of interest? Is Sakurako the most likely point of self-insertion?

Or are people more enarmored with the perfect wife level Sakurako has attained so that they actually identify more with Kasumi living in the lesbian married life simulator where they don't have to do anything, because the cute and amazing housewife takes care of them?

I don't tend to pick a viewpoint to follow as my guide through these kinds of stories, so this is kind of fascinating. Certainly never saw this as "wish fulfillment" at least. The empathy to identify with characters is there, but it's still separate from my own desires. I don't want to "be" the characters, I just want to see their lives play out for them. Guess that is why I never joined the "waifu" craze.
[Me x Character] is indeed the worst pairing as a reader. lol