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Thing is, Touko doesn't know what she wants to do.
This part is especially hard on Touko because she’s previously been someone who knows exactly what she wants to do—imitate her dead sister, be in love with Yuu, have Yuu be her campaign manager, put on the play, etc. Her main moment of crisis wasn’t about choosing among several different concrete possibilities, but when she couldn’t see what came next—what would happen after the play was performed.
Touko kept control all those years by keeping herself locked down emotionally and stubbornly sticking to the single principle of being “perfect” on the (supposed) model of her sister. Now she’s broken out her self-imposed constraints, and she’s both more free and more vulnerable than ever.
Yuu, in the meantime, is depressed and hurt. She was afraid of rejection, but she got past her fear by reassuring herself that she wouldn't be rejected, not by accepting the consequences that would come if she was.
Did Yuu really take Touko’s acceptance for granted, though? I thought it was more like she just couldn’t keep going on the way she was. (That “I may be about to do something stupid, but I just don’t have any other choice” feeling was painfully familiar to me.)
I don't mean she took it for granted, I mean she quelled her fears by assuring herself they were unfounded.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch34#15
"It'll be okay. I'll still be by her side..."
She never let herself actually think through "What do I do if she rejects me outright?" I mean, she couldn't. It'd be paralyzing if she did. All she could do was steel herself, hope for the best, and act.
... this hurts so good...
Thing is, Touko doesn't know what she wants to do.
This part is especially hard on Touko because she’s previously been someone who knows exactly what she wants to do—imitate her dead sister, be in love with Yuu, have Yuu be her campaign manager, put on the play, etc. Her main moment of crisis wasn’t about choosing among several different concrete possibilities, but when she couldn’t see what came next—what would happen after the play was performed.
Touko kept control all those years by keeping herself locked down emotionally and stubbornly sticking to the single principle of being “perfect” on the (supposed) model of her sister. Now she’s broken out her self-imposed constraints, and she’s both more free and more vulnerable than ever.
Yuu, in the meantime, is depressed and hurt. She was afraid of rejection, but she got past her fear by reassuring herself that she wouldn't be rejected, not by accepting the consequences that would come if she was.
Did Yuu really take Touko’s acceptance for granted, though? I thought it was more like she just couldn’t keep going on the way she was. (That “I may be about to do something stupid, but I just don’t have any other choice” feeling was painfully familiar to me.)
I don't mean she took it for granted, I mean she quelled her fears by assuring herself they were unfounded.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch34#15
"It'll be okay. I'll still be by her side..."
She never let herself actually think through "What do I do if she rejects me outright?" I mean, she couldn't. It'd be paralyzing if she did. All she could do was steel herself, hope for the best, and act.
The translation made a mistake here. In the raw after Touko says she wants things to remain as always , Yuu was about to back down and not confess , trying to convince herself that keeping the status quo is fine and that Touko will keep changing so that someday... someday what? That's when Yuu jumps towards Touko and decides to confess. She wanted to run away, but in the end she decides not to, so I think she did not think about rejection since everything was too sudden, and when she was "rejected" it just hit her too hard.
Did Yuu really take Touko’s acceptance for granted, though? I thought it was more like she just couldn’t keep going on the way she was. (That “I may be about to do something stupid, but I just don’t have any other choice” feeling was painfully familiar to me.)
I don't mean she took it for granted, I mean she quelled her fears by assuring herself they were unfounded.
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/bloom_into_you_ch34#15
"It'll be okay. I'll still be by her side..."
She never let herself actually think through "What do I do if she rejects me outright?" I mean, she couldn't. It'd be paralyzing if she did. All she could do was steel herself, hope for the best, and act.
Ah, right—I guess I didn’t think through the actual potential outcomes any more fully than Yuu did. I suppose if the confession scene had allowed them just a bit more time together, Touko might have recovered from her surprise enough to soften the blow a bit. (Just another reason that double-edged “I’m sorry” line is so brilliant.)
And the fact that a close-friend confession is inherently a point-of-no-return reminds us of the incredibly toxic foundation of what has mostly been a sweet and mutually supportive relationship. It’s awful when a person has to struggle with the problem of confessing and possibly ruining a precious friendship, but the stakes are even higher when the relationship has included a never-fall-in-love clause AND is so emotionally asymmetrical.
That “I will love you only as long as you do not love me” business that seemed like an extremely quirky set-up for an otherwise charming romance plot now comes off like a self-centered piece of emotional blackmail, the consequences of which Touko has only just begun to realize.
Speaking of translation mistakes, I noticed a fairly significant difference between two translations of one of Ichigaya's lines in Chapter 21(Page 11), in response to Touko protesting that Mio wasn't like the person she remembers. In the translation on this site, Ichigaya says "Maybe (Mio) was just putting on an act to look cool in front of her little sister," but in the localization, he says "In a way, you may have surpassed your sister because of that." The latter is fairly consistent with Ichigaya's point that Touko is a better student council president than Mio, but if the former's true, it could paint Touko's relationship with Mio in a new light- we don't know much about that apart from that Touko admires Mio.
As for this chapter, as heartbreaking as it is, it does tie back to the characters themselves. Not only does Yuu not know what it's like to really be in love, but she's also not entirely sure what it means to have that love rejected, whereas Touko's forced to come to terms with the consequences of her insistence that Yuu not love her.
Of course, while Touko's insistence on loving Yuu while not being loved herself is an obstacle that must be overcome, I don't think either of them necessarily thinks of it as "emotional blackmail." To Touko, anyone who claims to love her present self merely loves the version of her that is a replica of her sister, while anyone who loves her "real" self loves a part of her that Touko wants to cast aside, and it logically follows that they won't necessarily continue to love her once she changes. As for Touko's love for Yuu, Touko seems to see it as something she freely gives for her own sake (as seen in Chapter 28, when she says it's the only part of her she knows belongs to her), rather than something she can choose to withhold if Yuu doesn't do what she says. Perhaps the solution(or at least part of it) may be for Touko to consider Yuu's perspective- that just as Touko chose to love Yuu, Yuu chose to do the same for Touko- and accept Yuu's choice.
After reading the chapter again, i realized that in this page both of them are showing how each of them are dealing with their feelings through the straps. Touko is trying to put the feelings she has for Yuu away, but ultimately can't and even seems to want to act upon them. Yuu is frustrated with her own feelings so she locks them away, maybe expecting them to just dissapear eventually. I'm pretty dumb and i just thought there wasn't any meaning behind it other than the straps reminds them of each other.
Nakatani always weaves an impressive amount of symbolism into her work. It's part of what makes her such a good mangaka. When ever a new chapter comes out I always read it twice. The first time I just read it causally for the story and the second time I go through more carefully admiring all the symbolism and amazing little details she crafts into each page.
Nakatani really is a master of putting the visual dimension of manga story telling to great use. Even though this chapter was just a series of panels illustrating Yuu and Touko's mundane school activities the composition and use of visual ques gives the reader a real sense of loneliness and sorrow. You can really get a feel for the numb, hazy bubble Yuu is wandering through her day in.
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 12:52AM
ooh boy... wow, so it seems (to me) that they both have given up on the relationship... even though it wasn't a "real" relationship to begin with.... and now they are both dealing with the backlash of something they kept denying. Well, I have no sympathy for them.... at least I'm trying not to... sniff sniff... you can't play at love.
One thing that bothers me (possibly just me) is that only Sayaka has come out to someone. She knows who she is. She has someone to talk to. Yuu and Touko don't. Is this what the title of this chapter implies? I'm really not sure.
I kinda want Yuu's sister to emerge as a key player here. I imagine it might start when she notices that that senpai hasn't come around in a long time, since soon after the "who asked who out" car conversation.
Probably not happening though, as that would take a time lapse with lots of passivity on the protagonists' part.
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 1:02AM
Why do I have a feeling this is gonna have a troll Touko x Sayaka ending and Yuu x Forever alone ending?
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 1:12AM
@Ultraxion:
Insofar as the word “blackmail” implies conscious intent, you’re right—that’s not how either Touko or Yuu thinks of their basic “agreement.” But that agreement is based on several false and extremely misguided premises—that Yuu is and will continue to be unable to ever fall in love, that Touko’s public self isn’t real, and that her “real” self is unworthy of love.
If those premises turn out to be untrue (as they do), it would inevitably create a no-win situation for both characters (as it does). So while “blackmail” may be an imprecise description, Touko has in any case built a system that can only function on the terms she has dictated, and most of the consequences of potential deviation from those terms work in Touko’s favor.
Looked at cynically, Touko really doesn’t need Yuu’s emotional support anymore—she can be herself, a self that she accepts, around many other people now. She explicitly did not want love from Yuu, and (one might argue) Yuu has now lost the one attribute that made her uniquely suitable for Touko to love (her supposed inability to return Touko’s love), and Touko no longer needs that anyway. In fact, to accept Yuu’s love at this point could be seen as a retrograde move, with Touko clinging to the crutch she needed for her previous dysfunctional psychology rather than expanding her horizons by finding mutual love with some new person.
That’s not who Touko really is, of course, but if you look at the terms of that initial “contract,” Touko ends up in an objectively better position than Yuu does when that contract is no longer viable.
That’s not counting the loss of one of the cutest and most sensible little darlings in human history, needless to say, which Touko will eventually realize is far too high a price to pay, hopefully sooner rather than later.
It seems to me that Rei would be someone to spot Yuu's heartbreak quickly. The seed was planted in chapter 33. Rei could be the one that explains to Yuu that she'll know if it's love if it breaks boundaries, and being in love with a girl is a big boundary.
As for anybody else, excluding Maki, no one knows about Yuu's relationship with Touko, so they wouldn't assume she was having "love" issues.
Why do I have a feeling this is gonna have a troll Touko x Sayaka ending and Yuu x Forever alone ending?
True Trolling would be Touko x Guy who got her into acting and Yuu x some guy.
I'd probably set my apartment on fire with me in it if that happened though.
The translation made a mistake here. In the raw after Touko says she wants things to remain as always , Yuu was about to back down and not confess , trying to convince herself that keeping the status quo is fine and that Touko will keep changing so that someday... someday what? That's when Yuu jumps towards Touko and decides to confess. She wanted to run away, but in the end she decides not to, so I think she did not think about rejection since everything was too sudden, and when she was "rejected" it just hit her too hard.
Eh, I addressed this "mistake" at the time (page 129 of this thread) And I disagree with that interpretation of the original Japanese.
And in general, I get pretty antsy when people start talking about "translation mistakes". It usually ends up feeling pretty Dunning-Kruger to me when people start going "Well, they literally said -this-, so the person that translated it must have screwed up."
Speaking of translation mistakes, I noticed a fairly significant difference between two translations of one of Ichigaya's lines in Chapter 21(Page 11), in response to Touko protesting that Mio wasn't like the person she remembers. In the translation on this site, Ichigaya says "Maybe (Mio) was just putting on an act to look cool in front of her little sister," but in the localization, he says "In a way, you may have surpassed your sister because of that." The latter is fairly consistent with Ichigaya's point that Touko is a better student council president than Mio, but if the former's true, it could paint Touko's relationship with Mio in a new light- we don't know much about that apart from that Touko admires Mio.
Language is complicated. It's full of idioms and opposite meanings and things that a casual translator in another language wouldn't understand or pick up on. Things like "I'm sorry" being a standard rejection to a confession, or the word "Bad" often having positive connotations in English. Or the way the words "hot" and "cool" can have similar meanings despite being opposites in literal definitions.
I haven't looked at the raws for that scene, but often when there's a difference in translation between fan and official localizations, there's an idiom at play that one of the translators missed.
ooh boy... wow, so it seems (to me) that they both have given up on the relationship... even though it wasn't a "real" relationship to begin with.... and now they are both dealing with the backlash of something they kept denying. Well, I have no sympathy for them.... at least I'm trying not to... sniff sniff... you can't play at love.
One thing that bothers me (possibly just me) is that only Sayaka has come out to someone. She knows who she is. She has someone to talk to. Yuu and Touko don't. Is this what the title of this chapter implies? I'm really not sure.
Well, she has someone to confide in. Yuu and Touko both have support networks that will be there for them, but they don't know they can be open about it.
Yuu knows she has Maki, so if she were to seek advice, it'll probably be from him, although he probably isn't ideal because she knows he's ace and can't really relate. Her biggest ally is her sister, but she doesn't know that yet, and Koyomi is sharp enough to know something is wrong, and Akari could empathise with her heartbreak. Hell, even her friend from the softball team could probably offer solace. Yuu may not be officially "out" to any of them, but I also can't see any of them as being unsympathetic if she decides to confide in them.
Touko, on the other hand, well, she has Sayaka, and Sayaka is also in love with her, so that's a mess waiting to happen. Her parents -might- be open minded, but we don't have any knowledge of that. She might find allies at the troupe. Nara-sensei could maybe offer some sage advice, but those are connections that haven't been built up. Actually, Yuu's sister might end up giving Touko advice. We know they have each other's contact info. (That might be kind of interesting, actually. Yuu's sister is probably pretty close to the age that Touko's older sister would be now, it'd be interesting if she stepped into the role of "big sister" for her.)
Why do I have a feeling this is gonna have a troll Touko x Sayaka ending and Yuu x Forever alone ending?
Because you're a cynic, I imagine. ;p
As someone who once thought Sayaka might be a major problem for the Yuu/Touko relationship, let me try to to redress that error by predicting that, whatever happens and however things shake out, ultimately Sayaka is not going to be a problem.
She might confess her feelings, she might misunderstand the situation for a while, she might even be hurt, but by now we’ve seen who she is—she is consistently respectful of the feelings of others (including Yuu), and she especially adores Touko because of who Touko is, not for what Touko could potentially give her.
And yeah, Heavensrun, I believe as I’ve said before, a heart-to-heart between Touko and Big Sis would absolutely be pure gold.
Why do I have a feeling this is gonna have a troll Touko x Sayaka ending and Yuu x Forever alone ending?
True Trolling would be Touko x Guy who got her into acting and Yuu x some guy.
As someone said previously, best (i.e., worst) would be Yuu x That First-Chapter Confession Guy. (Chapter entitled, "Oh, What a Fool I've Been!")
I'd probably set my apartment on fire with me in it if that happened though.
My head would have exploded before I even got the matches lit.
Eh, I addressed this "mistake" at the time (page 129 of this thread) And I disagree with that interpretation of the original Japanese.
And in general, I get pretty antsy when people start talking about "translation mistakes". It usually ends up feeling pretty Dunning-Kruger to me when people start going "Well, they literally said -this-, so the person that translated it must have screwed up."
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate 4s' work and I think they're good, and I don't wanna seem arrogant but I still remain my opinion that it was a translation mistake. And if you think about it, it makes more sense that Yuu wanted to back down but still decided to do it in the end rather than just thinking "This can't go on" in that specific context. I actually asked a Japanese friend and he agreed with me. I don't think there's too much to interpret there either, Yuu's words don't really have multiple or very different meanings for one to get confused about what they really meant in context.
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 9:02AM
Talk about going off the deep end here. How little trust would one need to have to think Nakatani Nio of all people would give us a worst case scenario switcheroo hetero ending? lol
Even joking about it feels like an insult and I'm not even at the receiving end of that slander hahaha
I can't reiterate often enough that the happy ending is a forgone conclusion. The way to get there is just rocky and painful, but still very fascinating.
The only collateral will be Sayaka and I hope she will get her own new love that can mend that scar eventually.
"these feelings have nowhere to go"
damn
that hurt. I knew all too well.
I'm not really sure the difference in translation is all that big a deal. Actually, Touko's request at this particular moment for Yuu to stay with her like always is even a little bit on-the-nose for Nakatani's dialogue--Yuu has explicitly set up this opportunity to confess, so even if she does have a moment's hesitation before saying the words, it's not like the confession is totally spontaneous or hasn't been thought through.
If I understand correctly, it's the difference between:
- "Oh crap, now that Touko has said that, I can't go through with my confession--WTF, I'm gonna anyway."
- "I can't say the words Touko wants me to say--I've got to confess."
Either way, Yuu has already thought long and hard about whether to confess or not--and any confession is a hope against hope anyway.
@BugDevil
The only reason I can have fun thinking up alternative endings is because I believe like you do. Nakatani's writing is so strong that my first impulse is to take the thematic issues extremely seriously.
My fondness for the characters leads to my second impulse, which is to laugh and wish I could knock their two heads together and say, "Listen, you fucking idiots, what did you think all that kissing and cuddling was about, anyway? Go get some of Big Sis's cheesecake and feed it to each other in the equipment shed, and don't come out until your hair's all mussd up and your clothes aren't buttoned right."
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 10:40AM
@BugDevil
The only reason I can have fun thinking up alternative endings is because I believe like you do. Nakatani's writing is so strong that my first impulse is to take the thematic issues extremely seriously.My fondness for the characters leads to my second impulse, which is to laugh and wish I could knock their two heads together and say, "Listen, you fucking idiots, what did you think all that kissing and cuddling was about, anyway? Go get some of Big Sis's cheesecake and feed it to each other in the equipment shed, and don't come out until your hair's all mussd up and your clothes aren't buttoned right."
Theorizing is fun, feeling hurt with the characters is great. I just have a feeling a few people here are far too negative, beyond reason. This was a necessary step to let them overcome their last inhibitions. Whatever drama follows will still head for the same conclusion.
That cheesecake flag has been raised a long time ago, so Nakatani better deliver. lol
"Listen, you fucking idiots, what did you think all that kissing and cuddling was about, anyway? Go get some of Big Sis's cheesecake and feed it to each other in the equipment shed, and don't come out until your hair's all mussd up and your clothes aren't buttoned right."
This is one of these times I really regret having no talent at drawing, because I would pay good money for someone to draw that panel.
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 12:52PM
Oh my goodness me. This is one of the most wonderful things I have ever read. And now I have to wait for god-knows-how-long for maybw the final chapter...? My heart can't handle it. This manga has made me feel so happy.
Um, I think the manga is coming to its end. The next chapter is in October, I feel probably like last 3 chapters to end? Now just resolution on their relationship.
Doubt the author will go on showing their lovey dovey life afterwards unfortunately. :(Note to self: Stock up on pitch forks and torches to hand to the angry mob when asakura89's jinx comes true.
Haha, I love this manga, it'll be sad to see it end and not have another one to follow. But all good things come to an end and I'm glad this one will be complete! It's a masterpiece and Nakatani is awesome for her art and symbolism.
And I do apologize for the confusion and worry to some of you; I did indeed confused the manga chapter date with the anime release date.
I do still think though that the manga will end this year with 7 volumes (Seven Seas has license for 7 volumes). If there's one chapter release per month Oct., Nov., Dec. then there's 3 more chapters left until end. Each volume of Bloom Into You have about 5 chapters per volume on average, I think Volume 6 will contain up to chapter 33 which leave 5 chapters for Volume 7. Anime starts Oct. 5 (Fri), assuming 13 episodes the last episode will be aired Dec. 28 (Fri). By past trends manga releases on the 26th of the month so literally we'll have the manga end before the anime end (which is nice considering how a lot of manga adapted anime either left open end or alt. ending kinda). Although wishful, if Nakatani would do a volume 8 with just lovey dovey that would be nice too :)
last edited at Oct 1, 2018 1:39PM