FF is a romance story, so audience expects development in that scope. But now, people are more and more lowering their expectations because author-nim is delaying things needlessly.

I'm curious though, hasn't Ssamba said all along that it's about, well, the fluttering feelings leading up to a relationship? I mean it's right there on the tin, why expect something different?

I agree popularity does not mean good quality too. Look at 50 Shades...so popular, yet...

I think there are some ways to measure the quality objectively though.
-How and if the characters are developed, their personalities and their goals throughout the story.
-If there are a lot of needless moments and substories that give nothing of substance to the plot or characters
-If the story is a classic clihe one, that we've seen being played out numerous of times
-The moral and what the story is trying to teach to the readers
-Also Mary Sue and Gary Stue is a no. Although One Punch Man is ridiculusly overpowered without struggling to become so OP, yet people think it's the best anime.

Of course all those are known to have exceptions, the rules aren't really hard and fast. I mean look at Batman in light of the last one, or the number of critically acclaimed (as opposed to monetarily successful) movies based on Shakespeare plays in light of the classic one. Art's always been pretty slippery in terms of objectivity, although you can more or less do it in broad terms.

I agree popularity does not mean good quality too. Look at 50 Shades...so popular, yet...

I think there are some ways to measure the quality objectively though.
-How and if the characters are developed, their personalities and their goals throughout the story.
-If there are a lot of needless moments and substories that give nothing of substance to the plot or characters
-If the story is a classic clihe one, that we've seen being played out numerous of times
-The moral and what the story is trying to teach to the readers
-Also Mary Sue and Gary Stue is a no. Although One Punch Man is ridiculusly overpowered without struggling to become so OP, yet people think it's the best anime.
Also some poeple just want to see impossible things happening without seeing the protagonist struggling too much. Because this is what they desire in their lives too. An easy way to become powerfull, strong or have the love of their lives.
Stories and movies/anime is a way of them feeling like they could accomplish these things, or feeling special.
Movies like Twillight and 50 Shades are popular because they fullfil this premise. Your everyday Mary Sue gets everything she ever wanted without any logical explanation at all.
It's a psychology thing, rather than a good story thing.

Well, Saitama in OPM isn't a Gary Stue at all. He's nothing special, except for his ridiculous strength. And he's bald. The author deliberately deconstructed the trope of the noble hero. He's a likable character, but not one you are supposed to identify with.

The Gary Stues, these days, are in all the "reincarnation in another world" (or "trapped in a video game") stories where the protagonist is totally OP because of reasons, is smart and gets a harem.

On another note, I'm curious about what you think FF is trying to teach us? To avoid being in traffic accidents?

Anyway, every love story is a cliche. "Boy meets Girl". "Girl meets Girl". "Boy meets Boy". "Dog meets Bitch" (Disney filmed that one). We've seen them played out numerous times. What's important about them is how they manage to stir our feelings, whether we can relate or not, and if the flow of the story feels natural enough to suspend our disbelief. Yuri Kuma Arashi, for example, is completely out of whack, full of drama, pain, death and ridiculous things, and yet, everything comes together because every little piece is part of the whole picture and even if you don't like it, you can see there was a purpose to everything.

In a lot of strips of FF, I can't see the purpose of some events or thought, or even characters. Ssamba introduces characters, who do seem to play a role for a moment in the relationship between Seol-a and No-rae, but then they fail to make something of it.

Everything in FF seem geared toward character development, forgetting the relationship developement along the way. Seol-a and No-rae meet people, remember people or events, that gives depth to their personality (Seol-a is a wounded rich girl who never had a real girlfriend except one who seemed to betray her, No-rae is a seemingly happy girl who shield herself from emotions and wears a mask of selflessness).

See? We get to know the two MCs quite well. But what about their relationship? Where is it at? No idea. This thread is lost in conjecture.

Oh, there's some progress, but it's slow and disjointed. It's not a good way to tell a story in my opinion.

But you're free to like this way of course.

FF is a romance story, so audience expects development in that scope. But now, people are more and more lowering their expectations because author-nim is delaying things needlessly.

I'm curious though, hasn't Ssamba said all along that it's about, well, the fluttering feelings leading up to a relationship? I mean it's right there on the tin, why expect something different?

Because of the length. If it had been told in 50 chapters or so, that could have been a nice ride. But with 100 chapters, you can hope for something more, instead of The-Cockblock-Of-The-Week.

Now, some people on the ride are just asking wearily "are we there yet?"

I repeat, I don't "hate" FF. I love Seol-a and No-rae a lot because Ssamba made me love them. I just feel sad and disheartened that she doesn't seem to know what to do with her wonderful characters.

Sometimes, characters "talk" to their author. They take control of the story, they tell the writer how it is going to play. Something like Korra x Asami, where the authors didn't plan the relationship, it just happened because the characters wanted it and the authors felt it.

It's like Ssamba doesn't listen. Or torture them. I don't know... ;_;

last edited at Mar 15, 2016 11:27AM

Their r/s is still being friends. They both have aknowledged their feelings for each other to themselves too. Now they have to show it to each other, which is a whole different story and very complicated too.

What I get from FF (besides Seolrae) is how the characters are usually genuine and nice. That's refreshing to be honest, since in most of the stories the characters have some "villain" side of them too.
It's nice to see good famillies besides the typical disfunctional type or the dead parents in the protagonists.
Also the male characters are nice, and I don't like how in yuri they are portrayed as bad or even rapists, only to make the main couple seem better.

I agree some events don't lead to something major regarding Seol-A and No-Rae's relationship. They are just there. I guess the author could be bying some time by using them?
Or, if you think about it, for example Enah. She gave them the ski trip and it was there where Seol-A and No-Rae almost kissed. If it wasn't for her, there would be no almost kiss, and maybe this wouldn't happen at all.

Also, I never believed that a relationship (whether it's a dating, or just having feelings for someone) automatically gets more points after they start dating. Sure, we get to see another side for them, and how they act with each other, so this is good too. But for some people, if the two main characters won't start dating, their whole relationship gets deemed as worthless, which is something I don't agree with, although I understand why thiss happens.

My issue right now is, that I don't want this to start going in cycles. I think this is a good time for their relationship to take a step further, and if some external force stops them again, I think this would be a bad move from Ssamba. But it's not like I'll stop reading it lol.

Just dropping my two cents here: From what I've read so far on the story, Ssamba's writing seems to have slipped into decompressed storytelling, that by itself isn't a bad thing mind you, but on a long running series like this is only natural for readers to start feeling burnt out on the whole thing (and personally, I find her artstyle to not be the most fitting for the trope)

Well this was needlessly personal.

I wouldn't say it's needlessly. It wouldnt get personal if she didn't repeatedly attacking the author "personally."

I never attacked the author as a person. Nor did I ever "insult" her, as you pretend for that matter.

u didn't outright insulting the author but u repeatedly making 'appraisal' that she is lack of experience, bad writing, too much cliques, didn't think things through...The series has NOT ended. you r entited to your opinion but is it fair to the author?

To write a work and release it to the world is to expose yourself to criticism of your work. If you can't handle it, don't write or keep it as a diary.

nothing wrong with your statement. but drawing criticisms on unfinished work?

last edited at Mar 15, 2016 6:43PM

Well this was needlessly personal.

I wouldn't say it's needlessly. It wouldnt get personal if she didn't repeatedly attacking the author "personally."

She didn't insult anyone personally that was all you. Nya-chan critiqued the authors ability as a writer not as a person. I don't know why you brought up her personal life, maybe it's because you don't have the evidence to counter her argument? or maybe it's because you just aren't articulate enough to layout a sufficient counter argument. That's my honest opinion. I hope you will improve.

When did I insult Nya-chan? Did u read my prior comments? did you read her prior comments? I don't remember I have insulted any members on this board. I don't think I will ever go after someone personally bc I'd get nothing out of it.

Nya-chan's prior comment got personal "Maybe it's something cultural to Korea and this story is tailored to a Korean audience who likes to be blueballed." A Korean audience = a specific Korean audience. we all know who that is. if u dont call this personal I dont know what is.

so yeah I hope in future u will get your story straight before casting stone on someone

last edited at Mar 15, 2016 6:47PM

Can we maybe call a moratorium on throwing stones in general? That'd be swell.

Nya-chan doesn't care for how the story is told. Cool. Fine. We've known it for months, and every week we get reminded of it again. Other people don't care for it to lesser degrees. That's cool. No need to throw stones at them, or for people on their "side" to throw stones back.

In fact, let's do away with the stones altogether, seeing as it makes everyone involved look bad.

It's rather because I care too much about Seolrae. If I didn't care I wouldn't be so frustrated and I wouldn't post in this thread. I try really hard to stay on topic, but it's difficult in the middle of a hail of stones.

It's gotten strangely awkward to follow this thread; reactions are either hopeful excitement, frustration, dissatisfaction, or uh, increasingly aggressive/sarcastic whatever tone people use to communicate their annoyance while trying to not directly disrespect forum rules/whatever they can get away with towards disagreeing commentators.
Uuh better luck next week maybe

My two cents: I really love this story just the way it is, and I've found many of the comments and speculations quite insightful. Sure, I would love it if they get together in chapter 69 as someone predicted, and the rest of the story were about their fluttering relationship and perhaps the trials and perils of coming out to their friends and families. But I have no preconceptions; I'm sure I'll love it regardless. That is my opinion, and only my opinion.

And my hope: As Nezchan said, maybe, as we express our incompatible opinions, we can avoid throwing stones from any side? And I hope the people who've stayed away from this forum recently because of the thrown stones will come back soon. And I really hope we can avoid another knock down drag out fight.

And please note: I am not referring to any specific person or event; I'm not taking any side. And I do think things have been kept a little cooler on this most recent chapter.

This is going to be a little disjointed because my brain is fried from midterms and also there's too many different things I wanted to respond to (so many new posts, dang). Holy crap this got long...

Re: all the comments saying "FF is supposed to be a romance but why isn't the romance happening"

As I mentioned a few days ago, on comico FF is clearly labeled as slice-of-life, alongside romance and drama (+ serialized, Korean). It isn't tagged as such on Dynasty, and overtoon doesn't translate that bit of the comico header, so I guess a lot of people aren't aware of this... though ssamba's Q&A said as much tbh. With that in mind, everything that's been happening in the last few chapters is completely in line with the type of story FF is billed as, and with the way the series has been progressing thus far... so I'm a little ??? at the sudden wave of complaints. I mean, given the current point in the story, I understand people saying "omg get together already" because that's how we're supposed to feel as readers, but the "ssamba doesn't know what they're doing" comments are a different thing altogether.

There's tons of other series where every event, interaction, and introduced side character all wonderfully, purposefully, and efficiently serve to advance the romance plot. If that kind of focused and driven storytelling is what you need, great, but don't go demanding it from this manhwa because that's pretty much the opposite of ssamba's style. FF is generally structured as a series of episodes that are very loosely connected plot-wise. Just like real life, not every piece of story has consequences for some greater overarching narrative. And just like real life, the level of excitement goes up and down. Sometimes things seem like they're about to reach a head but then you lose the moment. The story has always been like this (for the past 60+ chapters!) so idk why people expect FF to suddenly change to a straightforward romance plot just because one almost-kiss happened (at least that's what I assume is the reason since it seems the amount of criticism jumped after that).

Honestly, if I just consider plot points alone, FF kind of reminds me of fanfiction lol. But it doesn't need to be brilliantly plotted because its strength is in its characters. Each episode is full of small moments and interactions that deepen our understanding of the characters and/or make us root for them even more. There is development, even if not necessarily for the plot as some people would like. i.e. after the ski trip, just because Seol-a never went "hey No-rae, let's talk about how we almost kissed last night" (which would make no sense/be OOC?) doesn't mean she forgot it happened or was unaffected. Just look at how she's being so much more skittish/awkward/blushy about physical contact than usual.

Quoting Knightingale:

A luxurious part-time-job that led to a holiday at a ski-resort at which coincidentally Norae’s ex-boyfriend stayed at the same time which led to Seola breaking down in tears, having an accident and a nearly-kissing-moment

When put that way, wow, sounds like a domino effect headed straight for the gay except ssamba dropped the ball/decided to be a huge tease at the last minute, right? But then go back and remember that the part-time job chapters contained really interesting/telling conversations between our MCs and Prez Yoon, a boatload of awesome fluff, and that No-rae monologue among other thing. Same with other episodes. Stop and smell the flowers!

I'm not saying FF is perfect by any means, or that it's above criticism, but I do think some people need to re-examine their expectations for the series.

Re: "we need No-rae POV"

Completely agree, but at the same time I trust that ssamba will provide it when it's necessary (like I said earlier, the POV pendulum will swing back eventually, as it always does). As for when enough is enough/when we've reached the point of too long without No-rae POV, well, everyone has different patience levels so that's pretty subjective. Personally I'm getting there but can wait a few more chapters. It helped that chapter 65 gave us a little bit, albeit in a really indirect form. Also, while some people reacted to chapter 66 with "I get it already, Seol-a's frustrated, nothing new here" I thought what we were shown about her past relationships and the contrast drawn with how she's approaching (or hesitating to approach) No-rae was quite interesting.

Someone said that the way ssamba shows us the characters' thoughts was inconsistent, but I think it's very deliberate on ssamba's part, whether it's to modulate the tension or to make us empathize with a character. ssamba usually leaves just enough hints to point us in the right direction, and every once in a while gives more direct guidance via stuff like internal monologues. It's fun to interpret all the small details that ssamba includes, to try and infer what characters are thinking or what will happen next. In a way it's like actively interacting with and thinking about the story, rather than just being spoon-fed each character's inner consciousness.

cipp, what do you think will happen in the next chapter? Will there be a conversation between Seola and Sungpyo? Even a non-verbal one? So as to make clear that they are rivals over Norae's heart? I personally really want that to happen. And I want that they both know this about each other. I mean that they know that they are rivals. That Seola's not just a friend. And that Sungpyo doesn't want to stay as just friends either.

also curious what ieeheh thinks about it. Really miss her presence here. Same goes for anon - she really disappeared from the thread somehow. And overdaline small fan comics are superb! Please continue! Your drawings are so cute xD

last edited at Mar 17, 2016 9:44AM

*lurk lurk lurkity lurk*

Wasn't anon- a robot dinosaur not a she tho oO

*steals anon-

Wasn't anon- a robot dinosaur not a she tho oO

*steals anon-

You gonna tell a robot dinosaur they can't be a she?

I thought their gender was robot D:

@cipp

I'm not saying FF is perfect by any means, or that it's above criticism, but I do think some people need to re-examine their expectations for the series.

I think that’s what all comes down to, doesn’t it? Nobody says FF is flawless and I think we pretty much all agree that the highlights are the characters and especially the little romantic moments of their interactions. But as a series FF isn‘t equally satisfying for all of us right now.

FF is generally structured as a series of episodes that are very loosely connected plot-wise.

And very loosely structured. Let’s not forget that. All the secondary plot-stuff in FF which could help sell this episodic format aren’t the strong foundation they need to be for this episodically paced romance-story. FF would certainly be a better slice-of-life if the characters‘ lives were more interesting to talk about. That doesn’t mean they have to be more exciting. It just needs to be something worth talking about and not just a joke or the newest plot-complication for one of those „episodes“.

FF is generally structured as a series of episodes that are very loosely connected plot-wise. Just like real life, not every piece of story has consequences for some greater overarching narrative. And just like real life, the level of excitement goes up and down. Sometimes things seem like they're about to reach a head but then you lose the moment.

Hmm, but couldn’t you actually look at these points as a description of episodic storytelling in general? Like, any secondary, romantic will-they-or-won’t-they-plot in a crime-procedural can have big romantic moments in one episode but we don’t expect this romance to get resolved in that episode or the next or change their dynamic fundamentally or have a big impact on the procedural.

after the ski trip, just because Seol-a never went "hey No-rae, let's talk about how we almost kissed last night" (which would make no sense/be OOC?)

I see it that way: The problem here is rising expectations. The bigger the romantic moment is the higher the audience’s expectations for its consequences are. Imagine the same scene with its result just being Norae blushing and trying to leave the room as fast as possible. It’s easier to imagine that moment to not have very big consequences. Sure, then some of the less satisfied readers will say “Where’s my progress?!” but if Ssamba’s style isn’t interested in creating a consequence-driven escalation and creating mounting tension (as you say, it just goes up and down) in the narrative why include such a big moment like a nearly-kissing-scene in the first place? Now some people hope something will happen in chapter 69. And I think that’s still rising expectations at work here. I think we all looked at that moment and thought: “What will happen next?”

ssamba usually leaves just enough hints to point us in the right direction, and every once in a while gives more direct guidance via stuff like internal monologues.

So it IS inconsistent. But you’re also right in describing it as deliberate. It isn’t like any chapter has fallen apart internally because of these choices. I just wish there would be some sort of pattern to these stylistic choice besides Ssamba’s personal preference for how she wants to present a chapter.

Knightingale, what do you think will happen in the next chapter?

*lurk lurk lurkity lurk*

yaaaaaaaaaaay!!! anon's alive ^__^

I thought their gender was robot D:

I forgot what was your gender by the way... but that's reaaaaally going offtopic... xD

last edited at Mar 17, 2016 7:19PM

Fungoid <_<

cipp, what do you think will happen in the next chapter? Will there be a conversation between Seola and Sungpyo? Even a non-verbal one? So as to make clear that they are rivals over Norae's heart? I personally really want that to happen. And I want that they both know this about each other. I mean that they know that they are rivals. That Seola's not just a friend. And that Sungpyo doesn't want to stay as just friends either.

My two-cents, to show that I'm not only about criticism...

The latest chapter, with Sung-pyo and Seol-a bringing back home a very drunk No-rae is an obvious setup for a conversation between the two. if it doesn't happen or it time-skips to something else (the morning after, or even later), it'll be disappointing.

But...

I don't think there will be a showdown between them, establishing them as rivals or something. Seol-a isn't sure she can seduce No-rae and Sung-pyo never said or thought "I want another chance". I think he's still hesitating.

So, I'm betting on a conversation between them about No-rae and about Sung-pyo's intentions (remember, Seol-a wondered if his presence was a coincidence), which may clear the path for Seol-a.

And sorry about making this thread radioactive... ^^

last edited at Mar 18, 2016 8:04AM

^ Legit sweetest comment
Notice them, senpai

My two-cents, to show that I'm not only about criticism...

I think u actually really love the manhwa. I mean who doesn't love fluttering feelings :)

The latest chapter, with Sung-pyo and Seol-a bringing back home a very drunk No-rae is an obvious setup for a conversation between the two. if it doesn't happen or it time-skips to something else (the morning after, or even later), it'll be disappointing.

But...

I don't think there will be a showdown between them, establishing them as rivals or something. Seol-a isn't sure she can seduce No-rae and Sung-pyo never said or thought "I want another chance". I think he's still hesitating.

So, I'm betting on a conversation between them about No-rae and about Sung-pyo's intentions (remember, Seol-a wondered if his presence was a coincidence), which may clear the path for Seol-a.

I agree there would be no showdown between Seol-a & Sung-pye. They will talk abt Nora-e but I doubt they will discuss abt his intention. Sung-pye must have already noticed changes in Nora-e. He sees that she is happy now, and he is not the cause of Nora-e's hapiness. Sung-pye will realize or already realized there is no going back between them. What they had is a memory.

last edited at Mar 18, 2016 6:15PM

Yes, I think so too I think the story is good now but if it drags on more it won't be as good. For now the dragging hasn't been too bad I think, it just makes feel on the edge buuut! now we need to move forward a bit!