Forum › Hanayome wa Motodanshi discussion

Chinatsu%202
joined Jan 27, 2016

Oh, I forgot to actually comment on the manga D:

It's super cute and relatable especially when it comes to the various insecurities and worries that come with transition and being trans in general. I also love that the author is careful not to portray her own particular story and path as the One True Trans Narrative and address the fact that the experience of being trans can differ greatly between individuals and there are many equally valid ways to deal with it.

76047650-352-k633682
joined Jul 17, 2015

Alice Cheshire posted:

Transgenderism has nothing to do with biology or anatomy and everything to do with psychology. So those scientists could hold those opinions but they'd be entirely wrong and their training is irrelevant to the subject since transgenderism does not pertain to their field.

Wat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism#Biological-based_theories

Also, people: transgender is an adjective, not a noun. There is no such thing as "transgenders".

Good manga btw.

last edited at Feb 22, 2016 6:28PM

Alice Cheshire Moderator
Dynasty_misc015
joined Nov 7, 2014

Madame_Firenze posted:

Wat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism#Biological-based_theories

This is what I get for trying to argue with an idiot after having taken a sleeping pill, lol. I should have specified that there are parts of it which can be tied to biology but that handling transgender people needs to come from a psychological standpoint since the effects of it tend to be felt mentally and not really physically.

S129
joined Aug 2, 2015

Nez Note

XenonVoid is now topic banned from this discussion. Any attempt for them to continue posting in this thread will result in a 1-hour suspension.

This message brought to you by life's too short to waste on this.

THANK YOU. Wow, reading all those comments was giving me a headache.
You're the best Nez

joined Jan 16, 2016

Cute art! And very informative.

Definitely bookmarking this.

Yuu
joined Mar 28, 2015

Aw, I missed the fun of a flamewar about transgenderism and the summoning of logical fallacies to stop an argument in its tracks. Oh well...

I was pretty sure this manga was quite consensual though. It's about the author's personal experience, so there's nothing to argue about but praise them for being so cute. Everyone has their own story. Some people don't even have a story.

I liked it. And she's quite lucky to have a supportive family and husband. Almost a faitytale.

Wait
joined Feb 8, 2014

yeesh I'm glad the trash got taken out. Who comments on a manga they haven't read? anyways.

Super cute manga some of the phrasing can be a bit bothersome for some more sensitive folks it's still super cute. Are we sure this is autobiographical? because dat family acceptance seems straight up fantasy.

Also for the record not all trans folk have dysphoria and most don't have it all day every day. It's not the general disconnect between body and gender. It's a specific discomfort type feeling regarding that disconnect often times abotu certain aspects of one's body (for example face or chest or whatever).

Cryssoberyl Uploader
Booklet1-high-pink-experiment
Zefiberyl Translations
joined Apr 11, 2011

There's a lot I could say, but I'll just leave it as, I'm happy this exists. This and the positive experiences that formed it. If only they could all be like this.

last edited at Feb 23, 2016 10:52PM

67351033_10220293459155029_8283322322757091328_n
joined Jul 22, 2015

I can only say I'm envious of Chii. Though it seems I started transitioning earlier than her, she has the hair-skin combination to allow laser hair removal and also the proximity to Thailand made getting her SRS/GRS/GCS much more financially achievable. Sadly I don't have the $35k USD it would take to get my surgery in North America. It's usually cheaper (about $15-20k USD) in Thailand, but the costs to go there and live there for a month are prohibitive at best.

Yes I'm one of the transgender women that frequent this site.

5b3c524e-e066-4eaf-8e5f-ae4e37b5edda
joined Jan 18, 2016

It's kinda cute
Maybe it's something handy for transgender peepz on this site.

last edited at Feb 24, 2016 6:52AM

%20%c3%93%c3%83%c2%a4
joined Feb 24, 2016

"If you're gay or transgender, you must have good taste" HAHAHAHA, i love this manga, idk.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

I can only say I'm envious of Chii. Though it seems I started transitioning earlier than her, she has the hair-skin combination to allow laser hair removal and also the proximity to Thailand made getting her SRS/GRS/GCS much more financially achievable. Sadly I don't have the $35k USD it would take to get my surgery in North America. It's usually cheaper (about $15-20k USD) in Thailand, but the costs to go there and live there for a month are prohibitive at best.

Yes I'm one of the transgender women that frequent this site.

Not to mention, the prospect of taking a 10-12 hour plane ride within a couple of days of surgery sounds unpleasant at best.

Chinatsu%202
joined Jan 27, 2016

Holy frick was that an adorable proposal.

joined Oct 10, 2015

Madame_Firenze posted:

Wat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism#Biological-based_theories

This is what I get for trying to argue with an idiot after having taken a sleeping pill, lol. I should have specified that there are parts of it which can be tied to biology but that handling transgender people needs to come from a psychological standpoint since the effects of it tend to be felt mentally and not really physically.

You seem honest in how you feel about this, but, you're wrong. The general path to transition looks something like:
1. See psychologist, get cleared to transition. Past this point, they are largely uninvolved.
2. Go get medical assistance to transition (Hormones, hair removal, masectomy)
3. If desired, get bottom surgery.

Your idea of treating dysphoria as a mental health problem was actually tried for a good while, and even with some well applied CBT (Cognitive-behavioral therapy) didn't really work well, at all. Medical transition, on the other hand, has an excellent success rate.

59453ac1563a3102b9b5731298ad55a7
joined Aug 31, 2014

Nez Note

XenonVoid is now topic banned from this discussion. Any attempt for them to continue posting in this thread will result in a 1-hour suspension.

This message brought to you by life's too short to waste on this.

will u clean the messages out?

last edited at Feb 24, 2016 5:09PM by Nezchan

Ourobouros2
joined Feb 17, 2016

Aah, marriage. I grew up hating everything about it, all the ceremony, the clothes, the supposed inevitability, the changing of names, the reduction of indefinable emotion to a legal document.

When you begin to suspect you're fundamentally shut out of the process, it all grows blurry, like you wonder whether the objection or the rejection came first. After that, it gets even more confusing when barriers fall but you can still feel something in the way, like even if you changed everything about yourself and society, you'd still be incapable of playing either husband or wife. I know roles are fluid and you can tailor details according to your relationship, but once you bend words so far, you find yourself speaking another language from everyone else and it's a lonely place to be, especially when people are silently mapping their own definitions on to you.

Still, enough angst, I've got all the love in the world for people who can find happiness and fulfilment in either role, especially when they have to surmount all kinds of personal obstacles, I'm really proud of my friends and their families.

5b3c524e-e066-4eaf-8e5f-ae4e37b5edda
joined Jan 18, 2016

Ah yes yes, really good!
Very cute!
" if you're gay or transgender, you must have good taste. "
Hm, my taste is not THAT good.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

will u clean the messages out?

Doesn't seem to be too much demand for it. If people want, I will though.

In the meantime it's ample evidence for why I banned them from this thread.

Nezchan Moderator
Meiling%20bun%20150px
joined Jun 28, 2012

Ah yes yes, really good!
Very cute!
" if you're gay or transgender, you must have good taste. "
Hm, my taste is not THAT good.

I thought it was if you're trans, you're probably a computer programmer. There was a joke in the 90s that CRT radiation actually caused GID, so many were in the trade.

Purple Library Guy
Kare%20kano%20joker
joined Mar 3, 2013

Love this little manga. Very cute indeed.

Looking over that argument (I actually hate to have missed it, I'm a fairly argumentative sort) there was one tangential but I feel important thing that was slid past. Whatsisname was talking about tolerance, and how terrible it is that "liberals" preach tolerance and then are intolerant of people who disagree with them. Disclaimer: I'm not what Americans call a "liberal", I'm what Americans call a "Radical looney socialist pinko" and what The Computer would call a "Commie mutant traitor" (Serve the computer. The computer is your friend!)

Anyway. The thing about tolerance is a common and dangerous category error. Leaving aside the general inadequacy of "tolerance" as a way of dealing with difference, let's imagine it was a more positive thingie than it actually is. The point is, "tolerance" and other similar concepts are intended for more or less inherent differences between people (How 'bout I use the word "tolerance*" from here on to indicate the general complex of not-being-bad-to-people or actively-being-good-to-people concepts in that space).

Tolerance* is for stuff that is about the person themselves which does not by its nature do anything to others around them. It does not apply to people's opinions, or their evil deeds, or their ideologies. Believing in "tolerance*" of difference does not mean you have to "tolerate*" fascists, racists, rapists, warmongers et cetera; and most relevant, it does not mean you have to "tolerate*" intolerance. To the contrary, doing so undermines the whole tolerance* schtick, and bigots calling for non-bigots to be "consistent" and tolerate them often know it perfectly well.

Incidentally this is why religion is always an uneasy criterion for "tolerance*"--religion so often has ethical implications, and while the mere idea of believing in (some important supernatural being or pattern of existence) is a reasonable thing to tolerate*, believing that the important supernatural being tells you to treat women, LGBT, blacks, arabs etc. like shit is not.

last edited at Feb 24, 2016 8:43PM

joined Aug 11, 2014

Re: Gender dysphoria as a psychological thing versus a biological thing. As was mentioned, there are biological markers of gender dysphoria. It's not especially well understood, yet - it's only relatively recently that medical science even began to acknowledge transgender identity as a legitimate state of being, let alone actively studying it - but there are studies that point towards aspects of brain activity and neurochemistry that are consistent between cis and trans people of the same gender, even if their reproductive organs are different.

Some stuff about me, since we're on the subject: I'm not one of the people who just always knew, in some way, that they were transgender. Even when I could tell my interests didn't quite match up with the gender I was given, as a child, I didn't see anything strange or inherently wrong with my body. It just was. So when puberty started, and I suddenly started getting intense stress migraines, prolonged bouts of depression, and chronic exhaustion, it was pretty baffling. Dysphoria is a hard thing to describe. For me, it felt like my body had stopped being mine, that I had stopped being me; my consciousness was a ghost, inhabiting the walking corpse of some poor kid whom I started to pity and resent in equal measure. I wasn't sure "I" even existed, or if I was just the delusion of this bizarre alien creature I was tethered to, and I would one day just dissipate into the ether, replaced by some other imaginary entity dreamed up by whoever it was this body actually belonged to. That was an odd few years.

Point is, what changed all that was hormone therapy. It wasn't an identity thing - I wasn't even sure I had an identity, at that point - but as soon as I started blocking the hormones my body was naturally producing, that's when I started feeling human again. That's when I realised how fucking insane I had gotten. It seems like such a small thing, to be able to look at your own hand and recognise it as yours, but even now, I can't help but marvel at the feeling.

My own gender is more or less a work in progress. I still don't feel all that strongly about it, so whatever, I figure I'll just make however many little changes I feel like making, and see where I end up. Maybe I'll even settle back into the gender I was raised as! Who knows! It's a mystery. My biological sex, though? Total mess. It was exactly, precisely, exquisitely wrong. As a dry, clinical, scientific matter, seperate from issues of culture and psychology and identity, my own body biologically fucked itself in the head, and required medical correction as a basic matter of survival.

So like, I might not have a terribly scientific basis for it, but from my (unreliable, unstable) sample size of 1, there is very much a biological component to gender dysphoria. It's also part of why I really dislike the practise of describing people as "biologically male" or "biologically female", because even from a medical perspective, the human body can be a total clusterfuck when it comes to sex and gender.

Rosmontis
Nevrilicious Scans
joined Jun 5, 2015

Super cute ♥

ChocolateCakeLover
Gigi7
joined Feb 4, 2015

Very cute but.... so much het... ewwwwwww ;_;

love spotting when people are at 999 posts

last edited at Feb 24, 2016 10:24PM

56239_1311160211088_full
joined Oct 30, 2015

This is really cool! I hope I could find a partner like her husband. They are great couple.

Tumblr_mfrdsc3t1e1rdyfv3o1_500
joined Apr 25, 2014

this is so sweet and heartwarming, and it sucks that discussion got derailed by a terf or w/e that was, but i'm glad we're back on track ^^

but i can't believe she didn't call her bf for ten days when she was in thailand??? like even if this happened when cellphones weren't as common wouldn't you still call a guy just to let him know you're not kidnapped/dead/etc?

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