I'm half Black Caribbean half Causasian myself and I thought I was finally getting some representation :(

Yeeeeaaaaahhh Japanese mangos would be a pretty bad place to look for it in general. Just sayin'.

I'm half Black Caribbean half Causasian myself and I thought I was finally getting some representation :(

Yeeeeaaaaahhh Japanese mangos would be a pretty bad place to look for it in general. Just sayin'.

The Japanese Miss Worlds 2015 and 2016 were both multiracial (half-AA and half-Indian respectively), and the place is far more diverse than anime and manga initially suggest. Of course, Japanese media are kinda terrible at representing people with even half-Japanese ancestry, let alone settled foreigners beyond European/Western stereotypes, so if your point was about industry practices rather than ground-level demographics, then I'd have to agree.

last edited at Jan 4, 2021 11:51AM

so if your point was about industry practices rather than ground-level demographics, then I'd have to agree.

While it was primarily the former, uh, did you actually read what you linked? Because the very opening sentence of the article is rather at odds with what you seem to be trying to say here...

so if your point was about industry practices rather than ground-level demographics, then I'd have to agree.

While it was primarily the former, uh, did you actually read what you linked? Because the very opening sentence of the article is rather at odds with what you seem to be trying to say here...

Shockingly, articles tend to contain more than their opening sentences. As evidenced by the second, the third, and, y'know, the rest of the article.

With that out of the way, I don't think race or diversity need much more said in this thread.

Edit: Given that we posted at the same time, I'm perfectly happy to let the post below this slide. My feelings on any further posts remain unchanged.

last edited at Jan 4, 2021 2:34PM

Shockingly, articles tend to contain more than their opening sentences. As evidenced by the second, the third, and, y'know, the rest of the article.

97.8% native Japanese, as of 2018, is ethnically homogenous as all fuck by any measure. Just because the remaining 2.2% is as wildly colourful sprinkling as anywhere else - putting aside the minor detail that between them Chinese and Korean expats amount to nearly half of the sum total - doesn't make it any less of a functionally irrelevant curiosity.

All the more so as the article explicitly points out this is after a very recent (relatively) dramatic uptick in the number of foreign residents...

Point being, the popular entertainment of a virtually ethnically monolithic island nation with a pretty bad case of literal island mentality - which tend to go together for obvious enough reasons (just ask the UK, a longtime repeat offender) - is going to be real slim pickings for "ethnic representation" in general.

Point being, the popular entertainment of a virtually ethnically monolithic island nation with a pretty bad case of literal island mentality - which tend to go together for obvious enough reasons (just ask the UK, a longtime repeat offender) - is going to be real slim pickings for "ethnic representation" in general.

I'll agree with you there. Though I've noticed a general uptick in representation lately, particularly as more studios pay attention to the demands of Western fans and globalization. Traditional anime like isekai and harems and lowest-common denominator stuff like gacha games will obviously go the pandering, safe route, but original projects tend to be surprisingly 'woke', so to speak. From what I've heard, there's something of a general divide in the anime/manga industry between creators who wanna create stock stories for fixed demographics, and those that wanna branch out and tell diverse stories about diverse people. In terms of profitability, the former is a much better choice, especially considering how hit-or-miss anime sales tend to be, but there's more support for the latter in terms of streaming platforms and so forth than there would've been a decade ago, so that's nice.

Hope those 2.2 million (and growing) people get their rep someday.

Edit: Since the post here is more of an addendum than a continuation to the argument, I don't see any reason to rescind it, but it's up to the mods to decide.

last edited at Jan 4, 2021 2:25PM

KENNY LOGGINS INTENSIFIES

The Japanese Miss Worlds 2015 and 2016 were both multiracial (half-AA and half-Indian respectively), and the place is far more diverse than anime and manga initially suggest.

Are you sure Chika Nakagawa is multiracial?

I suspect you are thinking of Miss Universe Japan 2015 and Miss World Japan 2016 -- Ariana Miyamoto and Priyanka Yoshikawa, respectively. These two are, indeed, multiracial beauty pageant titleholders.

^ Yes. I read an article about it a while ago and was a bit hazy on the details.

Lol. Getting jealous of gym clothes is pretty cute.

Why is clothes sniffing so blessed? It feels like it should be weird but it’s always so endearing every time it shows up in a manga. I need more of it in this life.

Why is clothes sniffing so blessed? It feels like it should be weird but it’s always so endearing every time it shows up in a manga. I need more of it in this life.

Because it's not weird at all, manga and anime just attempt to frame it that way. Scent is a huge part of human intimacy, not automatically a fetish. It only becomes fetish-level once it becomes (like anything else) obsessive and intrusive.

Trying to become a prince and completly changing your looks just for one person feels like it's destined to fail. "But you are a girl, you can't be a prince...also a prince is rich" is something I would expect as superficial reasoning if her friend clings to her childish dream guy idea.

At least she had a good workout.

I love shameless flirting in yuri stories.

How did some of y'all come away from reading this and think she has body dysmorphia? Simply changing your look is not body dysmorphia.

She didn’t just “change her look”, she essentially changes her identity from “princess” to “prince”, or, if you prefer from “femme” to “butch”. In one panel she asks “am I handsome” and the response is “of course not!” with the implication being to her, her crush doesn’t find her attractive as a “princess” so to be loved she has to become a “prince”.

So let’s recap. Current “princess” identity = unlovable. Different “prince” identity = lovable. Path to lovable identity requires substantial body modification to the point the “princess” is unrecognizable in her previous identity.

This is far beyond buying matching hair clips or dressing up for a date. This is a person that feels they have to completely change their personality and appearance to be loved by one person. What does she do if she’s rejected by this crush, and her next crush likes “princesses”? Can she simply “take off” the physical traits she’s morphed into to become lovable to her new crush?

That is the messed up thing here. Did she even try to see if her crush would like her as a “princess”? No. So in her mind, she now sees herself as butch, completely different from her current appearance, and therein lies the dysmorphia.

I know it’s easy to see this as “cute” but in real life simply having an outwardly butch appearance is a challenge in society. And if we accept this idea, then the opposite idea that girls who are born butch and grow up butch can or would need to somehow physically change themselves to appear more femme to be accepted by a crush who only likes “princesses” is also acceptable. And let’s take this to it’s logical conclusion and say that butch girls can and should aspire to completely transforming themselves to appear more femme because, hey, it’s “cute”.

i think people are putting a lot of themselves into this. the titular character isn't dysmorphic, she's just stupid when it comes to her crush.

And let’s take this to it’s logical conclusion and say that butch girls can and should aspire to completely transforming themselves to appear more femme because, hey, it’s “cute”.

Let’s not do that because that’s not the “logical conclusion” but the very definition of reductio ad absurdum.

Look, if you want to wax self-righteous about how fictional romance stories shouldn’t be taken as handbooks for real-life behavior, knock yourself out. Assuming any rational person believes that they are.

But let’s not pretend you’re saying anything of particular relevance to this story.

Personally, I've always disliked the 'let me change everything about myself to suit someone else's tastes' trope. As some posters above have pointed out, identities and aesthetics are fundamentally vague during childhood, so it's quite normal to be inspired by a film star or a popular trend or your peers to shift your aesthetic. Sometimes it helps you get closer to your ideal self, and at others, it becomes a dark past that makes you cringe half-to-death when you look back on it. Some level of experimentation is a given, and many people do it for goals that aren't entirely self-focused- I know lots of people who've changed their look for likes on social media, or because they wanted to get into a 'popular' clique in school or college. The end results can vary from depressing to liberating, depending on a huge variety of factors ranging from time, trends, responses and so forth.

The issue with doing it for one person's approval alone is that it's very high risk-reward- if they like you, then you get validation and self-esteem, and if they still aren't into you, then all your efforts have gone to shit. There's a lot of stuff that could've gone wrong in this case, like if the girlfriend turned out to be straight rather than into the aesthetic, or if her tastes changed over time, or if she made another offhand comment that caused our 'prince' to reboot her existence into a different kind of appeal. Obviously, this is a wholesome manga, which I've recently come to realize is a genre based not around realistic depictions of healthy affection so much as idealized scenarios where romantic intent always produces a proportional reward. Much like shonen or a dating sim, hard work in manga gets you love and affection, though I suppose that's a horrible message for those that want to be loved for who they are.

Ultimately, how much you like this story will probably depend on the level of realism you're willing to mix into your cup of steaming gratification. The 'ItS OnLY FiCtioN, don't think about it!' brigade will scream their cases out better than I ever could, while the folks who ponder the real-world implications of such scenarios have made some excellent points about how unlikely and dangerous this approach would be if attempted in real life.

Personally, I don't blame the author for portraying the golden ending, although the fact that the prince's condition is referred to as the 'Curse of Handsomeness' makes me wonder if they're self-aware enough to write a confrontation down the line where the girlfriend confirms that she fell in love with the prince because of her... well, something that didn't change over half a decade and not just her new look. Only thing to do is wait and watch (assuming there are still chapters left to be released).

last edited at Jan 6, 2021 10:10AM

Personally, I've always disliked the 'let me change everything about myself to suit someone else's tastes' trope.

That's the point, though--it's a trope. Like any other trope, it can be deployed in a variety of ways and in disparate contexts. Any Dynasty reader can probably name a dozen series with the "makeover" theme off the top of their heads.

To say, "the thing done in this story, if done differently or in a different context, could be bad in real life" is to say very little.

To say, "the thing done in this story, if done differently or in a different context, could be bad in real life" is to say very little.

Making a change to one's entire appearance based solely on the thought that a crush wouldn't like you any other way is simply unhealthy. Full stop.

or

"The thing done in this story, when done exactly as it was in this story, is bad in the story and in real life."

To say, "the thing done in this story, if done differently or in a different context, could be bad in real life" is to say very little.

Making a change to one's entire appearance based solely on the thought that a crush wouldn't like you any other way is simply unhealthy. Full stop.

or

"The thing done in this story, when done exactly as it was in this story, is bad in the story and in real life."

And the bad consequences demonstrated in the story (as opposed to readers who feel "this is is bad') are what, exactly?

Interesting that there are people here who read a story about body dysmorphia and say, “oh, that’s so cute, I love that”.

There are others who read this story about body dysmorphia and say, “wow, that’s fucked up”.

Everyone is entitled to their reaction to the portrayal of body dysmorphia. Some people enjoy it, that says a lot about them as a person. Others do not enjoy it, and that also says a lot about them as a person.

Interesting that there are people here who read a story about body dysmorphia and say, “oh, that’s so cute, I love that”.

There are others who read this story about body dysmorphia and say, “wow, that’s fucked up”.

Everyone is entitled to their reaction to the portrayal of body dysmorphia. Some people enjoy it, that says a lot about them as a person. Others do not enjoy it, and that also says a lot about them as a person.

Apparently there are people who feel free to make up their own definition of "body dysmorphia."

Having participated in therapy sessions with a family member where the possibility of a "body dysmorphia" diagnosis came up, what's portrayed in this story is light-years away from a real-life case of body dysmorphia.

last edited at Jan 6, 2021 10:51AM

To say, "the thing done in this story, if done differently or in a different context, could be bad in real life" is to say very little.

I'd have to disagree. 'Unrealistic' is a pretty common criticism for works across every spectrum of audiences, from your average consumer to elite critics. If a reader can't get invested in a story because they can't connect the events occurring to their own experiences, then they won't consume it. Some would say it's the reader's fault for trying to compare fiction to reality, others would say that it's the writers fault for failing to detail a scenario that's sufficiently solid. A lot of people criticize your average isekai harem story for being blatant wish-fulfilment, and you can't really say that those criticisms are pointless because within the story, our protagonist really is a perfect dude who was just oppressed because he was a gamer and could totally rule the world as long as everything was different. Similarly, criticizing works where rapists get away with their crimes and are rewarded for their aggression because in-universe, the victim was into it, or stories where cops murdering minorities are lauded as heroes, because in the stories, the minorities really were all criminals, isn't illegitimate. Obviously, this story isn't so blatantly problematic- it details a scenario that's unlikely, but not impossible, which is why I said that your enjoyment of it depends on how much you value realism.

Fiction can be problematic, and if you find yourself disappointed by a story because it clashes with the way you see reality, there's no problem discussing it. This forum is a space for expressing personal opinions about subjective stories, which is exactly what people are doing. I'll admit that 'wholesome' manga have a massive audience precisely because they show ideal scenarios and give people a break from the darkness and angst of reality, but if in doing so, they only remind people of the problems they're trying to ignore, then is it so foolish to point it out?