ForumShitsurakuen discussion

00100
joined Oct 11, 2010

Am I the only one around here who didn't mind the ending!?

no. I liked the whole thing. this or one of the blue drops was the first yuri mangas that got me hooked.

joined Apr 1, 2013

it was worth reading.. definitely.
around the last chapters i was worried they totally destroyed the image they worked so hard creating in the beginning. the girl u love cutting sum guy's eye out n giving u an ownership's scar on ur forehead, fucked up chick.. n worth it.. so giving her 10 years to sort out her issues. good price 2 pay.
wldnt mind the antiyuri end. but the yuri end does fit the story buildup.
with the antiyuri end there's no sense of satisfaction after reading the story.

was pretty cool!

Rare_starlight_(22)
joined May 13, 2013

Yes Now I can Download now the manga Thank you

Pixelavatar48
joined Mar 29, 2013

Hey this post is gonna have spoilers so if you've got a problem with that stop reading here.

Ok.

I found this manga legit disturbing re: the messages about misogynistic violence, and the way that in the last volume or so it entirely became about men's feelings and how terrible and unfair it was that men were being painted as villains for participating in (enthusiastically, in most cases) organized systematized violence against women.

It was obvious that the authors here were trying to do Utena but given the ending I can't help but feel that they pretty seriously misread their source material.

stripeanderson
Psx_20160306_172109
joined Mar 21, 2013

I had this really nice feeling in my head after reading the manga and then I read the forum comments.

This manga made me cry x'D well its that good or I'm just an emotional person.
Yeah sure, the ending doesn't make sense but I love it anyway :D I don't like the way the message is brought out but at the end of the day it's all about "walking a mile in someone else's shoe" or simply understanding the other side before getting all worked up.

I watched a bunch of documentary about war and concluded that "beliefs(paths)" are the thing which causes bad things to happen yet whether you like it or not, you will end up in a path(no such thing as no path). This manga on the other hand just showed me that it'll be all good if people could finally realize it's alright to take other paths as well. (( I really am just talking about religions and patriotism making people close minded))

Anyway, this was just my little view on the manga, I really love it or I might just be over thinking things xD

Edit: Also the fact that the girls manages to forgive the guys so easily is unrealistiic, but if they aren't going to when will the revenge cycle end? I don't think that they should be in love though xD but yes forgiveness

last edited at Jun 1, 2013 3:24PM

Logo-ubuntu_st_no%c2%ae-white-hex
joined Apr 23, 2013

The ending is sad, not because of how it is (it doesn't make sense anyways) but because of the ultra mysogynistic message it sends: the whole ordeal is all the glasses girl's fault, who manipulates everyone and everything just because she's a crazy bitch and can't let go of the girl she's obsessed with. And I'd never seen a dumber protagonist since Tales of Symphonia.

Pixelavatar48
joined Mar 29, 2013

Yeah sure, the ending doesn't make sense but I love it anyway :D I don't like the way the message is brought out but at the end of the day it's all about "walking a mile in someone else's shoe" or simply understanding the other side before getting all worked up.

The problem with this is that one side is a bunch of women who face institutionalized violence and the other side is a bunch of boys who are, for the most part, enthusiastic participants in and perpetuators of that violence, and are upset that they're made to feel bad for this. The truth is not always in the middle, and in this case especially it's a really troubling message to be sending. Combine that with the stuff about how it's all that one girl's fault (and the general way the princess is treated by the story in the last volume of the manga as not a victim but a clingy psychopath) and it ends up being really disturbing in several ways.

It's all good to forgive and forget but saying "hey victims you need to forgive your abusers because you're hurting their feelings by trying to escape from their abuse" is mega-not-ok

112
joined May 17, 2013

Am I the only one around here who didn't mind the ending!?

no. I liked the whole thing. this or one of the blue drops was the first yuri mangas that got me hooked.

I think mine was Gokujou drops, either that one or Hanjuku Joshi. I started reading them around the same time. I read some heavy hitters my first time.

EDIT: Nope I remember now. It was chatting at the Amber Teahouse. Effin incredible. Still one of my favorites till this day.

last edited at Jun 1, 2013 8:53PM

Sj%20celine%20icon
joined Mar 2, 2013

This story just took me for a fucking loop I went from despising the chauvinism to just like concentrating so hard on EVERYONE trying to fit pieces together and in the end I have to say this shit was actually a good story even if it pissed me off with all the abuse and just the oh you apologized it's okay you just whipped me to near death when I was younger >w> This thing took me for a fucking 5 hour ride and fuck I just I just don't fucking even I'm making my friends and my sisters read this I need a second opinion.

sickandtiredtoday
Index
joined Apr 7, 2013

I loved and hated this at the same time. But once I started reading it, I couldn't stop. Excellent story telling of a really, really horrible story, which only half made sense, but compelling characterizations kept the whole thing ticking over. As did the love/obsession of Tsuki and Sora. The art work for the most part, was pretty up and down, a bit jumbled, but some parts were gorgeous. The story was quite clumsy at points, but perhaps the English translation does not work well with some concepts, but I would read this again. The ending, before the wedding, while I understood what the writer was getting at, it was a bullshit way to put it.

Casusby Admin
__mioda_ibuki_danganronpa_and_super_danganronpa_2_drawn_by_qosic__sample
Dynasty Scans
joined Oct 8, 2010

It's garbage. It would be one thing if it was a massive satirical work on the tropes and misogynistic characters of other manga ala Voltaire, except it's NOT. It's like example number one of those things. Anyone who read this and thought there might have been redeeming parts needs to step back and look at the whole work's message as a whole and critically think about it.

00100
joined Oct 11, 2010

Anyone who read this and thought there might have been redeeming parts needs to step back and look at the whole work's message as a whole and critically think about it.

What, that a lot of humans are driven by self serving and self centered, letting their fears and anger control their actions AND using them as a excuse for treating others terribly? Stories like this are more like a hyper condensed take on human natures, or at least the author's view of it.

But that is NOTHING compared to the torment of that I spilled coffee into my keyboard this morning and my return, delete, and shift all stick now.

last edited at Jun 2, 2013 12:43AM

Phyis Moderator
Midori-facepalm
Yuri Project
joined Dec 12, 2012

No. This isn't Lord of the Flies or otherwise a commentary on human nature. It had the chance to go that way and blew it, multiple times. It's vile and irredeemable garbage.

Lifecharacter
Canaan2
joined May 9, 2013

Anyone who read this and thought there might have been redeeming parts needs to step back and look at the whole work's message as a whole and critically think about it.

What, that a lot of humans are driven by self serving and self centered, letting their fears and anger control their actions AND using them as a excuse for treating others terribly? Stories like this are more like a hyper condensed take on human natures, or at least the author's view of it.

Except it doesn't stop with an acknowledgement that people would use fear and peer pressure as an excuse to treat others horribly, because that's kind of what it had going for it when it was leading up to the final bullshit sections. If it had stopped there, that would be great.

But it didn't. It decided to say that those excuses are completely valid and they justify whippings, beatings, torture, hospitalization, and every other horrible thing that happens to the pseudo-slaves. Calling anyone a "villain" for doing those things when they can use that excuse is simply seeing things from one side, when you should be wondering about the horrible, horrible pain they're suffering from as they enslave and torture people. You should be concerned about making sure that not only are their victims given some happiness, but the abusers' get happiness as well, and achieving that is definitely worth letting the abusers turn women into slaves and torturing them for a few years.

joined Jun 2, 2013

Whoaaaaa ending changed. HATED the previous one. This one ain't that bad but kinda off. I mean I don't think Tsuki would say yes after being knocked out and left for 10 years. .

Ouroboros_tatoo
joined Mar 18, 2013

It's garbage. It would be one thing if it was a massive satirical work on the tropes and misogynistic characters of other manga ala Voltaire, except it's NOT. It's like example number one of those things. Anyone who read this and thought there might have been redeeming parts needs to step back and look at the whole work's message as a whole and critically think about it.

Well, as a quality story about good and evil and the perception of both, it does suck. Badly. The message itself is misogynistic and unacceptable, and in the end everyone is forgiven-- all the boys and Tsuki, which essentially negates everything they did wrong and says that it's forgivable to do terrible things if you were just doing them because your boss told you to, or that everyone else was doing it.

But I don't look at it as something actually applicable to society. I think it's fucking ridiculous. I think it takes an overly optimistic view of abusers and victims, and the reason it happens in the first place. Morals are completely absent in this work, which is why I can't take it seriously on any level.

But at the same time I kind of like how it was told. I am able to detach the meaning from the story and look at the one part I liked, how it was told, and I am able to say I liked it. Maybe I'm completely wrong this story doesn't deserve to be liked in any shape or form, but I find myself enjoying it a little.

joined Jun 2, 2013

Am I the only one around here who didn't mind the ending!?

Compared to the other ending, I <3 this one

00100
joined Oct 11, 2010

But I don't look at it as something actually applicable to society. I think it's fucking ridiculous. I think it takes an overly optimistic view of abusers and victims,

True, if it was like the real world there would be no real forgiveness only at best one system that uses conditioning through society/culture/government/religion replacing another which might not seem as bad from one angle but actually is.

Pixelavatar48
joined Mar 29, 2013

But at the same time I kind of like how it was told. I am able to detach the meaning from the story and look at the one part I liked, how it was told, and I am able to say I liked it. Maybe I'm completely wrong this story doesn't deserve to be liked in any shape or form, but I find myself enjoying it a little.

I can kinda see where you're coming from, but in my opinion there is literally nothing in this manga that Utena doesn't do a million times better, plus Utena is pretty solidly about getting the fuck out of abusive relationships/situations. It's so strange to me that the author of this manga obviously loved Utena enough to try and write exactly the same manga but also misread it seriously enough to turn it into abuse apologia.

Cryssoberyl Uploader
Booklet1-high-pink-experiment
Zefiberyl Translations
joined Apr 11, 2011

in my opinion there is literally nothing in this manga that Utena doesn't do a million times better, plus Utena is pretty solidly about getting the fuck out of abusive relationships/situations. It's so strange to me that the author of this manga obviously loved Utena enough to try and write exactly the same manga but also misread it seriously enough to turn it into abuse apologia.

While I agree that that was one of the ultimate messages of Utena, I think taking some mistaken notions about "mutual responsibility" away from it might be an easier trap to fall into than you make out. In Utena, the relationship between Anthy and Akio WAS mutually antagonistic. As utterly devoid of humanity as Akio was, Anthy intentionally provoked and tormented him in return.

Unlike the situation in Shitsurakuen, it actually was a mutually abusive relationship, although the degree and extent to which either one was ultimately "responsible" is one of the many questions of grey-and-grey morality that Utena poses. Anthy and Utena are also cruel to each other at times, though in very different ways.

I can easily imagine someone who sees females and males as only slightly less than completely different species (which is unfortunately a dominant cultural view on gender in Japan) dreaming up Shitsurakuen in a distorted reflection of the issues Utena raises. Of course, even if this is true, it neither explains nor excuses the hideous wrong conclusions the author apparently came to.

In any case, I'd better stop here. Utena is a subject about which I can go on and on.

last edited at Jun 2, 2013 8:05PM

Another_random_anime_girl_render__by_bakachasity-d5qdads
joined Feb 8, 2011

Re-read the story and it makes so much sense now!

Dynasty02
joined May 25, 2013

At first I was shocked, but then the 'real' last chapter fixed it. I can live with the ending.

Heart-broken-bandage-al
joined Feb 1, 2013

oh , whatever you say guys .. i loooove shitsurakuen ♥ & Tsuki too XD

palakangorange
Witch
joined Feb 24, 2013

i actually had a great time reading the series too. i specially love the characterizations of the girls, yuki being my favorite. reading all your comments,i learned something, the kind of perspectives buried by the "ideology of romantic love" which the story used as the path for everyone's so-called happiness.

ThirteenthSoul
joined May 23, 2013

Overall, I liked it. Reminded me of Utena. It was a good concept, but lacked a good execution.

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