Also I'm thinking something really mean right now but I'm not gonna say it :) acting Erika coded fr

Me too. It’s hard to hold off on such a fat pitch hanging in the middle of the strike zone, but today is the day of goodwill to all, so I’ll let it go.

Also I'm thinking something really mean right now but I'm not gonna say it :) acting Erika coded fr

Me too. It’s hard to hold off on such a fat pitch hanging in the middle of the strike zone, but today is the day of goodwill to all, so I’ll let it go.

Some might even say two pitches in one :3

This is mostly just a feeling, but I think where we're going is that Aya is more selfish than she seems and Erika less selfish than she seems. The conclusion will be that they were both regular people all along, compared to the pedestal Aya was put on by Erika/Koto or Erika's self hate.

The reading of Aya as remarkable and selfless doesn't totally fit to me. She made Koto confess multiple times before giving an answer, she seems to have been testing Koto to see if Koto would still love her (even later thinking, this isn't the love I was looking for or something like that, rather than that being in a relationship like that would be bad for Koto), she was relieved her only surviving family member was dead, and she may have had some role in her disappearance.

This to me reads like someone who is afraid of commitment and emotionally stunted in some ways. This makes sense if we think of her as someone who had to 'grow up fast' to meet her responsibilities and never got to have a typical childhood. A child like that will seem mature relative to other kids who are goofing off, but they can only meet those obligations by neglecting other areas of their life. This would explain her past desire to escape and be free, as she would have felt burdened by all the expectations she had to meet.

It would also explain why she's so disturbed by any hint she's being treated like a child. She can live independently, work a professional job, and more, but she can't give herself permission to be weak or vulnerable. She also hates being reliant on support by others, even though everyone must depend on others even as an adult.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 12:28PM

I think it’s fascinating the way that people keep conflating the past characters with their present selves, when in some respects they’ve been transformed, while also retaining much of their youthful personalities.

In fact, creating that confusing effect on readers is the only purpose I can think of for the whole supernatural premise in the first place.

O verdadeiro triângulo é essa discussão que nunca sai do canto...

Queria que mostrasse logo mais da parte sobrenatural. É meio engraçado como todo mundo parece ter esquecido até então e só convive com isso como nada além de um medo à distância. Não que eles consigam explicar, além de Kumagaya talvez.

This is mostly just a feeling, but I think where we're going is that Aya is more selfish than she seems and Erika less selfish than she seems. The conclusion will be that they were both regular people all along, compared to the pedestal Aya was put on by Erika/Koto or Erika's self hate.

The reading of Aya as remarkable and selfless doesn't totally fit to me. She made Koto confess multiple times before giving an answer, she seems to have been testing Koto to see if Koto would still love her (even later thinking, this isn't the love I was looking for or something like that, rather than that being in a relationship like that would be bad for Koto), she was relieved her only surviving family member was dead, and she may have had some role in her disappearance.

This to me reads like someone who is afraid of commitment and emotionally stunted in some ways. This makes sense if we think of her as someone who had to 'grow up fast' to meet her responsibilities and never got to have a typical childhood. A child like that will seem mature relative to other kids who are goofing off, but they can only meet those obligations by neglecting other areas of their life. This would explain her past desire to escape and be free, as she would have felt burdened by all the expectations she had to meet.

It would also explain why she's so disturbed by any hint she's being treated like a child. She can live independently, work a professional job, and more, but she can't give herself permission to be weak or vulnerable. She also hates being reliant on support by others, even though everyone must depend on others even as an adult.

It would be less interesting and unsurprising if it turns out Aya is exactly the ideal person Koto and Erika have been thinking she is. To think the story keeps telling us Aya is really a good actor. I do believe main of the reason she's so good at acting is due to her daily life practicing.

I don't know how many people have noticed but it's Aya's first time to confess her real thoughts in chapter 15. One of her biggest flaw, Aya couldn't just say how she really feels. When she said "Koto, you are able to say how you feel" , she actually mean it lol. Maybe she always considered Koto a far more courageous people than her. It also can explain why Aya chose to break up with Koto.

Some speculating is going a bit far from reality now. "The confusing effect" is getting real. :D I don't think it's that complicated...
Aya is confused because she experienced a lot of trauma in her childhood plus she's been spirited away. However, that's kinda true that she wants to develop herself to become equals with Koto.
To put it simply: Aya realized that her rs with Koto is not gonna work atm because they were mostly connected by traumas from the past, which was pretty toxic for everyone- She was struggling because of her mommy issues/abandonment issues and Koto also got the same present thanks to the "spriting away" stuff. They just had to overcome those problems to become the better version of themselfs and after they succesfully solved their personal problems, can reunite and be together again as a couple (the theory about the Tanabata story is going strong there because they're still very much in love with each other even though it's not working for them right now, so it's like a second round Tanabata effect) The spiriting away stuff is a big a mistery and Erika is also there with her "problem".
So, there is still so much to look forward to in the story.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 7:16PM

@Blastaar

I think it’s fascinating the way that people keep conflating the past characters with their present selves, when in some respects they’ve been transformed, while also retaining much of their youthful personalities.

In fact, creating that confusing effect on readers is the only purpose I can think of for the whole supernatural premise in the first place.

The supernatural aspect is what allows one of those three people to have been exactly the same as the past, while the other two have changed. That is really the the unique hook of the series. They then have to reevaluate their viewpoints of each other to account not only for changes, but also misjudgements in the past or developments from ongoing dynamics in the present. Otherwise, this would be a more standard school love triangle.

This is a very interesting way to portray the theme of 'seeing people as they really are', which must be done not only one time but moment to moment. This is also probably why we have so many different interpretations of the characters: people are confusing, contradictory, and often have more going on than it seems at first.

Much like with life, figuring out the truth is difficult. It's much easier to pigeon hole people into a simplified narrative, especially if we can pick one and identify that person with the chosen narrative forever. If people want to do that with the characters in the story, it shows the author has succeeded in capturing an aspect of reality.

@Genevieve

It would be less interesting and unsurprising if it turns out Aya is exactly the ideal person Koto and Erika have been thinking she is. To think the story keeps telling us Aya is really a good actor. I do believe main of the reason she's so good at acting is due to her daily life practicing.

I don't know how many people have noticed but it's Aya's first time to confess her real thoughts in chapter 15. One of her biggest flaw, Aya couldn't just say how she really feels. When she said "Koto, you are able to say how you feel" , she actually mean it lol. Maybe she always considered Koto a far more courageous people than her. It also can explain why Aya chose to break up with Koto.

I forgot when Aya said this, but it's all the way back in chapter 1. This is a good observation. Aya is especially good at portraying a poker face while giving people space to say or do what they want. That can give the appearance that she is more above negative emotions or more aloof than she actually is. She is not really ever dishonest from what we've seen, so she isn't acting in that sense, but she often likes to keep her true feelings and motivations private while the people around her are emoting.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 7:12PM

Aya is unfortunately good at playing her cards close to her chest. We haven't seen any sign yet of either Erika or Koto noticing certain major things like Aya being relieved her grandfather is dead, and seemingly how bad things were when she was 14 to feel relief rather than grief hearing that news. It's possible Aya had a whole Laura Palmer style double life going on back then lol.

As an aside, something else I recently noticed wrt maturity: 21yo Erika is very deliberately trying to be mature, but only where other people can see her. She puts a lot of effort into her fashion and appearance, takes her job seriously, is respected as reliable by her friends, but then we see her apartment and she's put no effort into cleaning her living space, hasn't bothered learning to cook for herself, etc.
Meanwhile 21 year old Koto when we first see her is dressed very immaturely, with clothing that hides the curves of her body, and is very bad at handling any emotional challenge, from freezing up when Aya first appears in front of her to repeatedly no-showing to avoid talking to Aya. But as soon as that fucking weird moment with the script happens, she's suddenly trying her best to be the adult with her fashion and with her treatment of Aya.

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 4:09PM

That's also an interesting observation. We know Erika is now a pro actor and that she has 7 years of hiding her feelings from Koto. Her having some commonalities with Aya makes sense. We even see Erika smiling when Aya asks who she likes and says that whoever it is would reciprocate if Erika asks, which would be enough to for many people to start crying or get visibly angry.

To some extent, it is maturity to be able to recognize the right thing to do and be the adult in the room, even when you aren't feeling it. Child Erika wouldn't have been able to do that, even if she had wanted so. There's still a certain degree of fakeness if someone can't extend that level of care to themselves, which fits with Erika being self hating. She is depressed but trying to keep up appearances for reasons that aren't completely clear, other than wanting to keep her job and not be homeless. Likely wanting to support Koto and to hide her guilt / perceived wrong doings both factor into it.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 8:43PM

Once again I’ll point out that middle-school Aya was easily the top dog of the trio—the one who effortlessly (apparently) surpassed Erika at acting, and even at racing up the stairs at school, and the one who Koto longed for. Now she’s at a disadvantage because of her “real time” age and her dislocation in time, but she’s still always concerned about whether she can “win” against both Koto and Erika.

Meanwhile, the other two have difficulty relating to Aya consistently, because their view of her keeps flickering back and forth between “past Aya” and vulnerable, dependent “present Aya.”

And many readers apparently have exactly the same problem when viewing all the main characters.

Personally I see Aya as having been pretty consistent, with the others' viewpoint of Aya changing having more to do with them than Aya herself. This has been a very short amount of time for Aya. Aya is of course also changing, but if anything she is more independent and successful than past Aya. She has a respectable job, independent housing, a pro acting gig, and is continuing with her education.

Of course, as I said, I think this is because she is neglecting other areas of her emotional development, but this is another factor in common with past Aya.

last edited at Dec 25, 2024 9:26PM

Personally I see Aya as having been pretty consistent, with the others' viewpoint of Aya changing having more to do with them than Aya herself. This has been a very short amount of time for Aya. Aya is of course also changing, but if anything she is more independent and successful than past Aya. She has a respectable job, independent housing, a pro acting gig, and is continuing with her education.

I wouldn’t say you’re exactly wrong. But as we see, when Aya flees from Koto’s house, she has nowhere to go except to Erika’s. She has to negotiate looking much younger than her chronological age (telling her co-workers she’s 17 when she’s “really” (whatever that means in this context) 21. She’s far behind her (supposed) age cohort in education/work experience.

Most relevantly, Koto and Erika both go back and forth between regarding her (and themselves) as being in the same relation they all were in middle school and coming to terms with the present reality.

As an aside, something else I recently noticed wrt maturity: 21yo Erika is very deliberately trying to be mature, but only where other people can see her. She puts a lot of effort into her fashion and appearance,

Just a perfect example showing how love is blinding your eyes

Meanwhile 21 year old Aya when we first see her is dressed very immaturely,

LOL 21 yo Aya never exist
what are you smoking sis

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 3:31AM

Meanwhile 21 year old Aya when we first see her is dressed very immaturely,

LOL 21 yo Aya never exist
what are you smoking sis

It's incredible how hard you are going at this. Just reveal after reveal. I hope you never stop posting on this forum. This is borderline performance art. Did you actually not understand the person you are replying to, or did you choose to pretend for an opportunity to be mean?

Meanwhile 21 year old Aya when we first see her is dressed very immaturely,

LOL 21 yo Aya never exist
what are you smoking sis

It's incredible how hard you are going at this. Just reveal after reveal. I hope you never stop posting on this forum. This is borderline performance art. Did you actually not understand the person you are replying to, or did you choose to pretend for an opportunity to be mean?

It's called a gentle reminding
You are a bit overreacting

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 5:12AM

I wouldn’t say you’re exactly wrong. But as we see, when Aya flees from Koto’s house, she has nowhere to go except to Erika’s. She has to negotiate looking much younger than her chronological age (telling her co-workers she’s 17 when she’s “really” (whatever that means in this context) 21. She’s far behind her (supposed) age cohort in education/work experience.

Most relevantly, Koto and Erika both go back and forth between regarding her (and themselves) as being in the same relation they all were in middle school and coming to terms with the present reality.

I certainly agree their relationship is different, with Aya needing more material support than the other two (but Erika/Koto being much more in need of emotional support). That's true despite it being the same level of support Aya needed before. She nonetheless is solving these issues very quickly and not dependent on any one person, merely accepting assistance from various people who are also getting something out of it.

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 8:55AM

As an aside, something else I recently noticed wrt maturity: 21yo Erika is very deliberately trying to be mature, but only where other people can see her. She puts a lot of effort into her fashion and appearance,

Just a perfect example showing how love is blinding your eyes

Meanwhile 21 year old Aya when we first see her is dressed very immaturely,

LOL 21 yo Aya never exist
what are you smoking sis

In the eyes of the law, Aya is 21.

Technically she her chronological age is objectively 21 since it's been 21 years since she was born, but she is not biologically or mentally 21. Kind of like someone who's been put in cryostasis. If you're trying to establish how long it's been since a person was born then you are wanting the chronological age.

Normally we never need to decouple these concepts, so it's confusing to think about. I at first thought '21 year old Aya' was the result having written the wrong name.

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 12:50PM

While technically "21 year old Aya" is dressed immaturely when we first see her since she's wearing her middle school uniform lol, that was indeed a typo and I was talking about Koto, who's wearing a childish baggy dress. I really don't think I need to justify saying Erika by contrast is trying hard with her appearance, given she is literally a public figure known for looking good. When Aya found out about Erika's modeling she called her "Erika-sama" lmao.

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 4:15PM

Well, that goes to show we shouldn't be making assumptions is never a good idea, while making inflammatory comments about other posters is a bad idea except when it ends up leading to interesting discussion in a thread that would otherwise have languished.

Childish might be going a bit far for Koto to me (maybe because I dress like that lol), but she does dress very simply, like a stereotypical college student I suppose. The exception is the planetarium date with Aya when she was dressing more stylishly. That means she knows how to do it and simply doesn't bother, which is indeed very different from Erika.

I think there's also more pressure for women to dress femininely in Japan, so it might be a bigger departure there. I might be misunderstanding though. I don't mean to be one of the people exaggerating 'cultural differences' like often happens on here.

last edited at Dec 26, 2024 8:24PM

Childish might be going a bit far for Koto to me (maybe because I dress like that lol), but she does dress very simply, like a stereotypical college student I suppose. The exception is the planetarium date with Aya when she was dressing more stylishly. That means she knows how to do it and simply doesn't bother, which is indeed very different from Erika.

I think there's also more pressure for women to dress femininely in Japan, so it might be a bigger departure there. I might be misunderstanding though. I don't mean to be one of the people exaggerating 'cultural differences' like often happens on here.

I wouldn't judge their clothing style too seriously. University students are very different from one another and you can see a lot of different styles. You have to think about the fact that people have been wearing uniforms for their entire life up until now, and this is the time when they can express themselves, especially before confirming to society when entering the workforce. So this is the period in the life of a typical japanese where you are going to see the most diversity of clothing style. The pressure to dress femininely does come later, when entering the workforce though.

As for Erika, of course she has to maintain her image of a feminine, well dress person. She is both a model and an actress.

The thing about Koto's early fashion that sticks out to me is how she changes it. For the first volume, she's dressed constantly in simple dresses that hide her figure, thus making her look a bit younger (this is what I meant by childish). Starting with chapter 5, as Koto and Aya travel to Tokyo together, Koto basically starts dressing like Erika. Long skirts or pants that make her look tall, with tucked in shirts that emphasize her figure.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 2:42AM

Have never seen Erika dressed in anything other than long pants. If there's a pressure for women to dress femininely in Japan, Erika clearly DGAF. We can switch her face with a man at any moment and wouldn't feel out of place.

I guess my standards for "femininely" aren't so strict as to preclude pants, so we can go with another word if we want. Implying women in Japan don't wear due to the supposedly alien culture was the type of thing I was wanting to avoid, but I do have the impression that beauty standards are somewhat stricter.

last edited at Dec 27, 2024 8:38AM