IIRC Miki has had a boyfriend before, but I forget if we know how into him she was. But I'm not betting on it.

At this point I'm tempted to wonder if "boyfriend" was a mistranslation considering the lack of orientation talk (nobody even thought to warn Ayaka her crush might not be into girls, odd omission if she was dating a guy) and the anime seems to have gone very gender neutral when Miki mentioned her past.

I posted a similar comment in the Mangadex discussion. It would be odd if Miki previously had a boyfriend and neither Himari or Aki thought they should inform Aya about it when she was consulting them about confessing to Miki: "Not saying you shouldn't confess, but just giving you a heads up that based on Miki's dating history she might not be into girls".

I had also previously posted a comment after checking the anime where Himari and Miki talk about her ex to see if I could get any more info about the gender of Miki's ex.

That comment:
"It's at 6:50 of episode 3 if anyone wants to check. Himari uses the term "koibito", which to my knowledge is gender neutral and often translated as "lover". Miki talking about it also sounds gender neutral...but somebody who actually understands Japanese should verify my amateur understanding."

last edited at Aug 21, 2024 5:06PM

Hey so this Miki arc Will also involve Momo and probable Hajime as well.

I remember in the early volumes there is an art of the sisters with dolls of each others, like Hima has of Yori and Shiho has of Aki, makes me wonder if at some point their relationship was going to go into a diferent direction.

I hope eventually we get some kind of scene where Miki shares some of her one-chan's photos with Shiho, like maybe despiste how she feels abouth the situatión, she finds that she is happy seeing how much Shiho loves Aki, and maybe teases her with her exclusive album

Idk about everyone else but I’ve already had my share of unrequited gay crushes on straight girls, notably female friends who wouldn’t ever be able to respond. And at least for me, it never worked out. I’ve lost every friendship except the one now that I’ve never shared my feelings with. Since I’ve learned my lesson. We can only hold so much hurt, until it breaks and we need to heal. I personally couldn’t have healed while also loving my friends. It’s just impossible when the feelings have no words and it’s just the intensity that you have to even wrap your head around. I guess some can continue with friendship and they don’t need distractions. They don’t even need less time or boundaries from the other person. Something has to change to make emotions change - usually that is changing a belief or a fantasy. Otherwise emotions can run and run and run for a long long time. Keep you stuck.

For years I was all-in on the HajiMomo train, even after the Kyou death reveal, but just last week I read "The Summer You Were There" and I cried and cried and it's one of the greatest manga I've ever read and now I got traumatic PTSD and I'm not so sure if I want HajiMomo to just go out immediately. It doesn't feel so "right" anymore.

And when Miki was all like "I love Aya-senpai, but not romantically" I was like "I've heard this damn story before already with Himari -> Yori and Aki -> Shiho, they both fall in love for real, so just go out with Aya-senpai already, you'll get over your Nee-chan and fall in love with Aya-senpai for real before you know it"

No we need someone to play (whisper) a love song first. That's the name of the game and I'm wondering if we'll find some creative way of doing that here too. The first two were very different. I don't think Aya senpai plays music though so who knows, maybe Miki or Momo does something. Gotta keep music involved somehow.

Well, Miki's already in the Wind Instrument Club (insert blowing joke here), so she can at least make that love song. She might not be able to sing like Shiho/Yori but hey, Aki sung something, even though in-universe I think it wasn't as good, and she got the girl.

Momoka's part of Laureley with Hajime and Shiho, remember? lol I think she's the bassist. She could do the same.

I'm also wondering if Takeshima-sensei regrets writing Miki as having dated a boy. Surely she couldn't have just forgotten? I'm not going so far as to say the anime was an active retcon, but I dunno.

IIRC Miki has had a boyfriend before, but I forget if we know how into him she was. But I'm not betting on it.

At this point I'm tempted to wonder if "boyfriend" was a mistranslation considering the lack of orientation talk (nobody even thought to warn Ayaka her crush might not be into girls, odd omission if she was dating a guy) and the anime seems to have gone very gender neutral when Miki mentioned her past.

Just checked the raws for ch6 and they do say 彼氏さん (the term is also used in one of the upcoming anthology chapters). But it goes without saying this isn't one of those yuri series that gets hung up on the topic of sexuality. It's very much a "this person falls in love with this person" kinda thing.

IIRC Miki has had a boyfriend before, but I forget if we know how into him she was. But I'm not betting on it.

At this point I'm tempted to wonder if "boyfriend" was a mistranslation considering the lack of orientation talk (nobody even thought to warn Ayaka her crush might not be into girls, odd omission if she was dating a guy) and the anime seems to have gone very gender neutral when Miki mentioned her past.

Just checked the raws for ch6 and they do say 彼氏さん (the term is also used in one of the upcoming anthology chapters). But it goes without saying this isn't one of those yuri series that gets hung up on the topic of sexuality. It's very much a "this person falls in love with this person" kinda thing.

So the manga used "kareshi"(boyfriend) and the anime used used "koibito"(lover)? Wonder if @Mayjaplaya is on to something and Takeshima wanted to retcon it?
I've read plenty of yuri where they don't touch on sexuality and all the characters that fall in love are all assumed to like girls by default despite men existing (as opposed to the 404: Men Not Found yuri).
But I can't recall one where a character previously dated a guy and then fell in love with a girl where they don't touch on sexuality at all. Like...why go out of your way to write a character as bi but then just ignore the elephant in the room of sexual orientation after you've drawn attention to it?
If you don't want to touch on sexual orientation then just keep everyone as assumed to be lesbian the same way other authors do.

What makes it even worse for me is how the initial conflict of the manga is Himari trying to understand what love is and talking to Miki in an attempt to figure it out. Why would you write your characters having a discussion about love, make one of them bi, and then not touch on sexual orientation?

last edited at Aug 21, 2024 8:14PM

Here's a post from Mangadex user Manko-sensei (Lol surely trustworthy with that name) that gives a bit more insight https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/whisper-me-a-love-song-ch-51-bewilderment-lies-and-hesitation.1865907/page-3

In the anime she's using "aitsu" (koibito is completely neutral, so the translation is dependent of this term), that term is normally used for male partners, which is the counterpart of "yatsu", that's why it's translated as boyfriend. The thing is, nowadays "aitsu" is not only used to refer men, just someone you know well and in informal situations (or just in a derogatory sense), and nowhere in the manga or the anime that ex-partner is given a name, sex or even referred again. Considering yuri is completely normal in this series, a female partner is completely plausible, both language-wise and story-wise. If it wasn't specified is because this was not deemed important, and considering men are almost non-existent in most yuri series you can assume it was a girl, so unless the author decides to determine who was this ex-partner it should be assumed it was a she.

last edited at Aug 21, 2024 9:11PM

Did you all collectively forget that Miki's boyfriend was shown in the previous chapter?

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch50#15
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch50#16

Just from the back, but you can see he's wearing a male uniform unlike Miki.

I think you wanted this page

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch50#15

Did you all collectively forget that Miki's boyfriend was shown in the previous chapter?

https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch50#15
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch50#16

Just from the back, but you can see he's wearing a male uniform unlike Miki.

Apparently my memory is awful because I'd previously made a comment in this thread after that chapter where I didn't question whether she dated a boy or not. It neatly summed up my frustration with Takeshima's choice of focus:

In a vacuum I don't mind the idea of an "incest arc". But what does annoy me about Miki looking inward to grapple with what seem to be incestuous feelings is that self-reflection would be better spent examining her sexuality.
She was previously in love with a boy so you'd think she or someone else would spare a thought to what role gender plays in attraction for her.
But no...we gotta focus on her loving her sister instead.

The first arc is built upon Himari not understanding romantic love and then trying to define it through discussions with others. Takeshima makes her best friend bisexual but doesn't bring up sexual orientation when Himari's discussing "how do you know if you love someone romantically" with her.
She creates situations that begs for the characters to at least mention sexual orientation and is even willing to tackle incest but apparently any talk of sexual orientation is just a bridge too far for her.

last edited at Aug 22, 2024 10:11AM

It seems a world where no one cares about orientation. No one bats an eye at girls dating girls.

She creates situations that begs for the characters to at least mention sexual orientation and is even willing to tackle incest but apparently any talk of sexual orientation is just a bridge too far for her.

It's simply because it's not what the series wants to focus on. It's first and foremost a story about love and its various forms.

She creates situations that begs for the characters to at least mention sexual orientation and is even willing to tackle incest but apparently any talk of sexual orientation is just a bridge too far for her.

It's simply because it's not what the series wants to focus on. It's first and foremost a story about love and its various forms.

I'm sorry but that doesn't make sense to me. You're telling me sexual orientation doesn't play an important role in "love and its various forms"?
I've read a number of yuri works where orientation isn't touched on and everyone is simply lesbian, which is fine. However, none of those go out of their way to create situations where not mentioning orientation feels like a glaring omission.

Why make her ex a guy in the first place if you're not touching on orientation? We have Himari discuss this ex with Miki when they're talking about "what is romantic love?" and then later have Miki conflicted on if she wants to date her female senpai.
Yet there's zero mention on how sexual orientation might play a role in romantic love for Miki?

Apparently Takeshima would rather focus on incest instead.

last edited at Aug 22, 2024 11:44AM

God, this series consistently has the worst comment sections.

God, this series consistently has the worst comment sections.

Yeah I shouldn't be spamming the comment section with my bitching. It doesn't give me any satisfaction and nobody wants to read that crap. I'll try to stop.

God, this series consistently has the worst comment sections.

Yeah I shouldn't be spamming the comment section with my bitching. It doesn't give me any satisfaction and nobody wants to read that crap. I'll try to stop.

I thought it was alright. Seemed tame. What else is discussion supposed to be? It's on topic, there's effort, it's fine. I would rather we avoided this angle with Miki but it's here to stay so I'm not planning on discussing it much.

last edited at Aug 22, 2024 12:32PM

Hmm... Time for Senpai's story now?

God, this series consistently has the worst comment sections.

Yeah I shouldn't be spamming the comment section with my bitching. It doesn't give me any satisfaction and nobody wants to read that crap. I'll try to stop.

I thought it was alright. Seemed tame. What else is discussion supposed to be? It's on topic, there's effort, it's fine. I would rather we avoided this angle with Miki but it's here to stay so I'm not planning on discussing it much.

Part of a discussion will be people voicing how they like and/or dislike a work. I see a lot of hate for Whispering on Dynasty and I don't really have much to add at this point. I enjoy the manga for the most part still and don't really want to debate or argue.

With this conversation in particular, I think I'm generally of similar mind as some other posts here,

Rainbow8:

It seems a world where no one cares about orientation. No one bats an eye at girls dating girls.

&

Goggled Anon:

It's simply because it's not what the series wants to focus on. It's first and foremost a story about love and its various forms.

It's fine if that doesn't work for some and they aren't enjoying the manga. I'm still mostly enjoying it as I said, so I'm just going to keep on reading, and right now I'm hoping for more cute date chapters in the near future.

There is exactly one time where the series has brought up sexual orientation so far:
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch28#23

I do agree that ignoring it almost-entirely-but-not-quite feels a little off. There's this one time Yori thinks about it when it comes off as silly considering every single relationship involving the people close to her including herself is homosexual, and there's Miki being the token straight character which I found funny earlier on in the series, but now that she's been brought into the fray of all the lesbian relationships herself it feels like that detail of her character is something the author didn't really think through and is being carried over just to avoid contradicting it.

There is exactly one time where the series has brought up sexual orientation so far:
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch28#23

I do agree that ignoring it almost-entirely-but-not-quite feels a little off. There's this one time Yori thinks about it when it comes off as silly considering every single relationship involving the people close to her including herself is homosexual, and there's Miki being the token straight character which I found funny earlier on in the series, but now that she's been brought into the fray of all the lesbian relationships herself it feels like that detail of her character is something the author didn't really think through and is being carried over just to avoid contradicting it.

I once read a definition of yuri as "lesbian themes without lesbian identity," and I feel like that's very apt for a lot of yuri works, particularly "fluffier" ones. It's a little less common these days, but it's still around.

There is exactly one time where the series has brought up sexual orientation so far:
https://dynasty-scans.com/chapters/whispering_you_a_love_song_ch28#23

I do agree that ignoring it almost-entirely-but-not-quite feels a little off. There's this one time Yori thinks about it when it comes off as silly considering every single relationship involving the people close to her including herself is homosexual, and there's Miki being the token straight character which I found funny earlier on in the series, but now that she's been brought into the fray of all the lesbian relationships herself it feels like that detail of her character is something the author didn't really think through and is being carried over just to avoid contradicting it.

I once read a definition of yuri as "lesbian themes without lesbian identity," and I feel like that's very apt for a lot of yuri works, particularly "fluffier" ones. It's a little less common these days, but it's still around.

There are Yuri manga that do go into lesbian identity, though there are a good amount of straight forward romance stories, along with escapism. Which can be fine in theory? There's room for both hard hitting series that delve into identity, the complications of it, the difficult feelings, and for series that are just to the point romance that focus on two characters being in love and that's the point. I don't think it's good to simply dismiss any and all fluffier romance as not real lesbian media, or gay media as well for Yaoi, so fourth. Maybe that's a controversial opinion though.

There's a manga that goes into lesbian identity that I love, the author celebrates pride and pushes for IRL acceptance in Japan, and the message I really appreciate from the series/author is that a person should enjoy whatever LGBTQ media they want and what matters at the end of the day is pushing for acceptance in real life. Not just accepting LGBTQ in stories, but also in real life, that's what actually matters. You can enjoy Yuri/WLW/GL, live action lesbian movies, gay movies, fluffy, serious, tragic, anything and that's fine. Just make sure you're also involved with achieving and celebrating better rights and acceptance in real life for real people as well.

Time to disassociate from the 'im in love with my onechan' arc and forget it like Miki's boyfriend so I can keep enjoying this manga, I really really really hope this is like 5 eps at much and we can see Kyou and Momoka flashbacks or something.

There are Yuri manga that do go into lesbian identity, though there are a good amount of straight forward romance stories, along with escapism. Which can be fine in theory? There's room for both hard hitting series that delve into identity, the complications of it, the difficult feelings, and for series that are just to the point romance that focus on two characters being in love and that's the point. I don't think it's good to simply dismiss any and all fluffier romance as not real lesbian media, or gay media as well for Yaoi, so fourth. Maybe that's a controversial opinion though.

Sure, I'm not advocating to dismiss them or saying they're lesser, just pointing out how a lot of Japanese yuri works just side-step the concept of LGBTQ existence entirely, which can be odd if you're used to it generally being a central part of the identity of characters. Either everyone is just kind of assumed to be into girls, or it's treated as a special one off-thing and then otherwise ignored ("I don't even know if I like girls, I just like you" is something I've seen in multiple variations).

Western comics almost always tends to bring up actual LGBTQ terms and communities, and in my experience a lot of Chinese and Korean comics will at least mention the idea that the characters are a minority, even if the focus isn't really on the struggle for acceptance or anything. Maybe that's the legacy of "class S" literature in Japan, I dunno, but it's not a value judgement. I'm not saying that works that explicitly name LGBTQ identities or issues are automatically better, thought I will say they usually feel more grounded and relatable to me.

I do kind of want to push back against the idea that bringing up queer identity makes a work less fluffy or about the characters being in love. I don't think it's what you're intending to say, but I do feel like that edges toward the idea that queer love is somehow less "pure" or fluffy if you use the L-word to describe the characters, and that it's somehow cleaner to just leave things undefined.

There's a manga that goes into lesbian identity that I love, the author celebrates pride and pushes for IRL acceptance in Japan, and the message I really appreciate from the series/author is that a person should enjoy whatever LGBTQ media they want and what matters at the end of the day is pushing for acceptance in real life. Not just accepting LGBTQ in stories, but also in real life, that's what actually matters. You can enjoy Yuri/WLW/GL, live action lesbian movies, gay movies, fluffy, serious, tragic, anything and that's fine. Just make sure you're also involved with achieving and celebrating better rights and acceptance in real life for real people as well.

I agree, but I'm also not sure what you're meaning here. Are you saying that pushing for representation in media isn't part of pushing for acceptance in real life? Because I'd disagree strongly with that.

I do kind of want to push back against the idea that bringing up queer identity makes a work less fluffy or about the characters being in love. I don't think it's what you're intending to say, but I do feel like that edges toward the idea that queer love is somehow less "pure" or fluffy if you use the L-word to describe the characters, and that it's somehow cleaner to just leave things undefined.

I think they just assumed you were discussing series that make sexual identity part of the plot's central focus or part of some kind of drama.

My experience is similar to yours. Most Korean/Chinese series I've read (no matter how fluffy) acknowledge the characters' identity in common/natural and direct ways. I've rarely had these issues with non-manga series. Maybe it's just the ones I choose to read.

last edited at Aug 24, 2024 12:48PM

I do kind of want to push back against the idea that bringing up queer identity makes a work less fluffy or about the characters being in love. I don't think it's what you're intending to say, but I do feel like that edges toward the idea that queer love is somehow less "pure" or fluffy if you use the L-word to describe the characters, and that it's somehow cleaner to just leave things undefined.

I think they just assumed you were discussing series that make sexual identity part of the plot's central focus or part of some kind of drama.

My experience is similar to yours. Most Korean/Chinese series I've read (no matter how fluffy) acknowledge the characters' identity in common/natural and direct ways. I've rarely had these issues with non-manga series. Maybe it's just the ones I choose to read.

Yeah I'm not saying queer identity makes a work less fluffy at all. I'm going off Gellydog specifically mentioning how fluffier series typically don't go into identity. I thought Gellydog was saying specifically that series such as Whispering You A Love Song are objectively bad because they're just fluff and nothing else. I do think queer identity and exploration aren't mutually exclusive with fluffy at all and I had less than 0 intent of saying that, I only thought the conversation was that fluffy series tend to not have those elements and there for are bad by default. So I was trying and I guessing failing to say that I think this kind of fluffy series and series that have more of a focus on queer identity are both valid. I think while Whispering You a Love Song doesn't explore queer identity it's still a generally good series about these girls that are in love with each other, and from what I can tell I'm one of the few on Dynasty that still enjoys the series, which is fine.

I agree, but I'm also not sure what you're meaning here. Are you saying that pushing for representation in media isn't part of pushing for acceptance in real life? Because I'd disagree strongly with that.

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying both series with more of a focus on lesbian identity and series such as Whispering You a Love Song that are focused purely on the romance and not the identity are both valid. Even a work like this I think helps normalize same sex relationships. Which even if people think Whispering You a Love Song is a completely worthless series because it doesn't focus on identity, as long as fans of the series are also pushing for real life acceptance that's ultimately the most important thing. I do think this series and others like it have value.