YuriHateFan can I also go on a murderous rampage with you because I, too, like to get mad at fictional gays being written in a realistic way. Artists def should not be allowed to draw what they like, I mean how will they ever make it up to us??????!????????????

Pretty sure you're being sarcastic here, but just so you know, are you aware of how contradictory what you're saying is? I never said that the mangaka should stop doing what he or she is doing (I say he or she because this applies to all mangaka and not just this one), because, as you said, they are allowed to do what they like but just as they are allowed to like what they like, I am allowed to do the same as well. I never even once said that Shuninta had to make this up to me, so I don't even know what the hell you're talking about there. Hell, a lot of my other comments on this series in particular have been about how I'm willing to wipe the slate clean for this mangaka's next series and start anew, BECAUSE I know that everything's different.
And again, I'm not mad because of how this turned out, well, I mean of course I am, because it's not what I like at all but I'm not as close-minded as you might think lol, but what makes me the most upset is how fucking poorly it was done. Because Shuninta isn't new to the yuri world and has released plenty of great series and should not be making such a poorly done series but I mean really. Sacchan slept with Remi out of curiousity which would make sense if she did it once BUT IT WAS FOR A WHOLE MONTH. And then a day later, she tells Ruki "I want to protect you" without apologizing or saying ANYTHING remotely endearing and Ruki just accepts her. NONE OF THAT IS REALISTIC. If it were realistic Ruki wouldn't forgive Sacchan, hell even if Sacchan had only done it once she might not have forgiven her, but no self-respecting person would take back a person who cheats on them for an entire month out of "curiousity on what it's like to be the one cheating." Especially without even the slightest semblance of an apology. And if you honestly think it is realistic, then I truly feel bad for you because those are not the kind of people I surround myself with nor would I ever want to be. THAT'S what bugs me. Now, its no secret that I love happy endings, but the reason I'm upset here is because THIS IS NOT A GOOD HAPPY ENDING. This is one of the few series where there should be an unhappy ending because otherwise It just makes no sense at all. Ruki should've rejected Sachi right there dumped her out of the car, been sad for a while, but eventually move on with her life, possibly meet someone new. But no, Ruki just accepted Sacchan because she is a truly desparate and pathetic human being who has clearly made ALMOST no progress since this series started. Literally all she's learned is what "love" is. And love is in quotes because at that point its no longer love but desperation. What I'm truly upset at is the writing and the development not the content.

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 5:53PM

I didn't know Dynasty could be so hostile about a manga before. It makes me not want to venture into these forums again.

ColonalCat pretty much gets it head on. Sachi doesn't show remorse because she found something about herself during her fling with Remi, and she shouldn't be sorry about it. She can be the strong and assertive type of person instead of being so submissive, whereas Ruki has always been timid and fragile - there was no way she was ever going to be the strong person she wants to be. Sachi doesn't apologize because there's nothing to apologize for; she knows what she did hurt Ruki, and in a way her revealing this information is almost like an apology without the bland "I'm sorry"s. She wants that cleared up, and wants Ruki to know all of it before they even step into becoming girlfriends.

Sleeping with Remi, she pretty much comes to a conclusion that she can make her own decisions - she doesn't need another person telling her what to do, dragging her around and her just putting up with it. Instead, she wants to be the person her lover can rely on. Ruki doesn't know why she loves her, and this is a huge thing Remi explains in chapter (two?), where she says they never know who they'll fall in love with. It just happens. Once they realize it, they're in way too deep in to get out so easily. That's why she accepts Sachi's explanation.

It isn't until she sees Ruki desperately trying to scramble the perfect date, and then crying when they get lost, that she knows she's the shoulder Ruki needs. That she needs to take charge and make Ruki happy, not the other way around. When she asks her sister if she's okay with her having a girlfriend, I see that as a huge important part of Sachi's growth as a person. If she kept it a secret and pretended like they were friends, sure, you can call her an asshole. But she doesn't; she wants to make sure her family is fine with it.

This was a beautiful chapter and a huge step forward for Sachi. I'm disappointed a lot of you can't see that.

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 5:42PM

So, considering that the final chapter of Triangle Struggle came out today too, this is just the day of shitty endings, I see. I had read some of the spoilers so I expected this but HOLY FUCKING SHIT SHE REALLY DIDN'T EVEN APOLOGIZE. AND RUKI FORGAVE HER WITH NO HESITATION. I mean...this is a bad ending...this is arguably the worst ending...I know my reactions tend to be capslocked and filled with rage but I never really get that angry at a series and its usually just me overexaggerating them cuz I know its fiction but with this I'm legitimately enraged. I currently hate everything. Excuse me while I go on a murder spree.

I think you should change your name to YuriHateFan... all your posts are are filled with rage lol -- I'm also teasing, so don't take it seriously. ^_^

Can I just say I'm kinda hating this? I gave it the benefit of the doubt but I am disappointed at this point. Amano, how are you gonna make this up for me ヽ(`Д´)ﾉ
But looking at reality here, some people are probably like that. Just glad I don't have to deal with them.

Eh... to be honest, If I was Ruki, I would have forgiven Sacchan as well. if she only did it once, and it wasn't anything serious, I'd just blow it off and forgive her for it. I'd be hurt of course and probably a little annoyed as well, but I wouldn't destroy my relationship by telling her to go fuck herself and leave me a lone or whatever. I just don't tend to hold grudges or get in a serious rage over things...

Yeah, I know I tend to explode but, I swear its usually just me exaggerating how I really feel. I don't really know any other yuri readers irl so I tend to go overboard here lol. Also, they're not all rage/hate filled. I've done just as many calm and/or praise filled comments on this site. I read just about every yuri that comes out on this site (aside from the doujins, cuz I don't really care for noncanon things lol) and I try to comment on just about everything I read so I assure there are some positive comments from me all over. And honestly, I include a lot of Capslocked in my comments and a lot of the time that gets misconstrued as anger since you can't really hear my tone through text but as I've said before, for me, capslock isn't (always) me being angry but just a thing I do lol.
Also, Sachi didn't just cheat once, she did it repeatedly over a whole month and then asked Ruki to take her back without even the slightest semblance of an apology AT ALL. And of course Ruki did it, cuz she's kinda pathetic lol.

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 5:55PM

violent

Not violent, wrathful. There's a distinct difference.

Oh okay! I wonder if that sort of means that she wanted to take it out on Ruki for having being cheated on by her ex-boyfriend.

Lil bit. Wiktionary defines it as 'extreme anger' and I always think of it as lashing out in all directions, wanting to inflict pain on others because you can, out of some real or imagined slight. Ruki is just an unfortunate sod who got caught up in it.

Not like it particularly matters. The seven sins gimmick is absurdly flimsy, and applied so inconsistently as to be meaningless. The designated "lust" character is sexually active, but no more so than the other two in their little threesome, and substantially less so than Remi, who is neither envious nor enviable. Beyond eating sweets somewhat frequently, "gluttony" only really manifests as an eating disorder, which, wow that's missing the point, and "sloth" gets vaguely conflated with bits of depression, asexuality, and probably MS all at once. Ruki's "pride" is just having her completely normal sense of self-esteem get torn to shreds until she can't even get mad when people hurt her, and Sachi at her most harmful is so lukewarm and apathetic it feels like a stretch to call her spiteful, let alone wrathful. Maasa doesn't even have a story, she's just rich and busy, and is consistently willing to share her resources, connections, and her home, if someone could use it. She's not some kind of philanthropist, but there's nothing about her to call greedy.

It's a nice idea as a theme, but to describe it as badly implemented would vastly overstate how much it even exists within the story. It's just irrelevant. The half-baked possible interpretations people were coming up with earlier in the thread were sturdier than this.

Whata... jeez...

I didn't know Dynasty could be so hostile about a manga before. It makes me not want to venture into these forums again.

This was a beautiful chapter and a huge step forward for Sachi. I'm disappointed a lot of you can't see that.

Yeah, it's a huge step forward for a bitch, she just realized Ruki might be a person. Now she sees her as an object to protect instead of just an object. She's practically autistic with her complete lack of empathy and that doesn't at all change the fact that Ruki was treated horribly and she shows no remorse for it. Should we cheer for a criminal who discovers they don't enjoy crime by committing a crime?

Comments sections are basically reaction sections of a forum. You ever see people yell at the TV? This is that. It turns out monogamous people (currently the majority of the western world) don't like infidelity, because it's basically the worst thing you can do to a person without venturing into criminal territory. Many people are also able to recognize that continuing a relationship with someone who has betrayed you like that is extremely unhealthy, and very depressing to watch. If you've ever had a friend stick with someone who treated them like shit you'd see it too.

Now i have mixed feelings that i previously had (especially about sacchan)....
What i can say now is that, for some reason, i was reading this chapter with a weird smile on my face...
idk, i kinda like how it became... tho i still wish we had some more of Remi (storywise or anything..with ruki)
then again i hated it at the same time
..
That sex scene made me cringe tho....

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 6:04PM

People also seem to be missing the deliberate deconstruction of the "perfect, passive girlfriend" trope. Sachi's an angry, tough top, built to dominate and lead, but who's been trained to be passive and feminine and dainty. Until this very chapter, Sachi has had no idea what she wants, because she was told that what she wants isn't important.
Ruki believes it's impossible for herself to be desired, which, I presume, is part of why she started putting Sachi on such a pedestal in the first place: Sachi didn't HAVE any desires. But she was never seeing her as a real person or looking past the feminine persona, and she was never going to put her in a fair position, idealizing her like that.

Honestly? If you guys were happy about Ruki "winning" Sachi (who passively and unenthusiastically went along with everything, and who had just gotten out of a manipulative relationship) but you AREN'T happy with them breaking out of the terrible, stagnant pattern they were in, then I can't really comprehend how you're approaching this story.

Personnally I'm not unhappy that sacchan stopped being passive actually i find Ruki better in the bottom position. i'm unhappy of what she did to become like that. You don't need to go cheat (and hurt Ruki) that much to try being the agressive one and do some thing by your own will

Edit : i shouldn't say i'm unhappy actually, I just don't like and understand Sacchi

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 6:45PM

Actually this is the first chapter, that makes me feel Sachi is a lesbian or at least bisexual because she is finally showing some real romantic feelings for Ruki and also admits she enjoys lesbian sex in general. Yeah, she has made lots of mistakes, but she is finally taking responsibility. And I also think it's a big step, that Ruki and Sachi finally know who they really are - Sachi wants to protect and Ruki to be the protected one. Maybe they really have a chance for a nice relationship after all - being sincere can really hurt both sides, but it's the only way how a longterm relationship can work.

I didn't know Dynasty could be so hostile about a manga before.

I envy your naivety.

ColonalCat pretty much gets it head on. Sachi doesn't show remorse because she found something about herself during her fling with Remi, and she shouldn't be sorry about it. She can be the strong and assertive type of person instead of being so submissive, whereas Ruki has always been timid and fragile - there was no way she was ever going to be the strong person she wants to be. Sachi doesn't apologize because there's nothing to apologize for; she knows what she did hurt Ruki, and in a way her revealing this information is almost like an apology without the bland "I'm sorry"s. She wants that cleared up, and wants Ruki to know all of it before they even step into becoming girlfriends.

I understand your reasoning, but I still think it's wrong. She says she wants to protect her, but so far she's the one who's caused her the most harm. I think being aware the she hurt her means she should apologise even moreso. She doesn't have to be sorry about all of it, but I think she should at least feel bad for the emotional pain she inflicted on her.

When she asks her sister if she's okay with her having a girlfriend, I see that as a huge important part of Sachi's growth as a person. If she kept it a secret and pretended like they were friends, sure, you can call her an asshole. But she doesn't; she wants to make sure her family is fine with it.

This did give me a little hope for the future though.

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 6:32PM

It isn't until she sees Ruki desperately trying to scramble the perfect date, and then crying when they get lost, that she knows she's the shoulder Ruki needs. That she needs to take charge and make Ruki happy, not the other way around. When she asks her sister if she's okay with her having a girlfriend, I see that as a huge important part of Sachi's growth as a person. If she kept it a secret and pretended like they were friends, sure, you can call her an asshole. But she doesn't; she wants to make sure her family is fine with it.

Thanks for describing in detail some of the things I enjoyed in this chapter throughout your whole post.

I think a lot of people failed to notice that Sachi only started to take their relationship seriously that evening and thus judged her prior actions from her current mindset, which doesn't really make sense. Still, it's hard to wrap your head around that she went as far as cheating just for personal enlightenment/enrichment, as Trafi correctly says.

I'm wondering if we'll see how their relationship turns out in the last chapter. I expect it to be something different, maybe a time skip as it is just called "finale".

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 7:07PM

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that no one should ever feel like somebody else's bad behavior and actions are their fault. Sacchan may have had some personal growth here but what about Ruki? I don't see how sticking to a person who doesn't value your worth and thinks you're weak can help you grow as a person?

Her self confidence is already low. Anybody in that situation deserves better. Value yourself more. You don't need that kind of bull feces. It's like you're limiting yourself to this one person who is messed up in the head, instead of allowing better opportunities to come into your life.

But whatever floats your goat I guess.

I hope everyone saying "Sacchan shouldn't feel bad because she did figure stuff out about herself / improve as a person by cheating!" never gets into a relationship, holy shit haha.

Sure you shouldn't feel bad about discovering more things about yourself or anything like that, but the fact that they're completely forgetting the other party here (Ruki) is worrying. It shouldn't be "I'm sorry that I became a better person", it's "I'm sorry that I hurt you, upset you and betrayed your trust".

But she completely disregards Ruki. I'm not saying she's a poor character, she's not, she's realistic because there's plenty of people like her in real life. Selfish and self-centered. And the relationship is very realistic as well, because there are a lot of relationships consisting of one partner being a selfish asshole that puts themself before anything else, and the other partner being either too timid to speak up against them or so blindly in love with them that they lap up their "But I really do love you and want you to be happy, I promise wink wink" excuses every single time without question.

So I like this manga. Yeah it's not cute or fluffy or sexy or anything, but it's one of the few that gives a solid example of a very unhealthy relationship.

last edited at Feb 22, 2015 8:18PM

Ugh, Ruki is so pathetic it makes me cringe.

I didn't know Dynasty could be so hostile about a manga before. It makes me not want to venture into these forums again.

It's only the controversial stuff. It's a wonderful community most of the time, but people tend to suck at thinking and understanding (me too) when controversial stuff pops up. Not everyone and not for everything, but it's reallllllllly difficult to, in this example, have a relationship grow partly because of cheating without backlash. Which is a good thing if you think about it. Just give it time to sink and for people to process information.

This was a beautiful chapter and a huge step forward for Sachi. I'm disappointed a lot of you can't see that.

Yeah. I think they will in the future, just initial reactions are gonna be bitter.

I hope everyone saying "Sacchan shouldn't feel bad because she did figure stuff out about herself / improve as a person by cheating!" never gets into a relationship, holy shit haha.

So I like this manga. Yeah it's not cute or fluffy or sexy or anything, but it's one of the few that gives a solid example of a very unhealthy relationship.

Ouch. Never would I ever think cheating is a good thing. There is a line, and attacking people personally is crossing it.

I think the audience that reads this as an unhealthy relationship have completely missed the point Shuninta is bringing us. Again, for emphasis, cheating is a terrible, terrible MISTAKE. Guess what humans tend to do, on a regular basis? Make mistakes. Really shitty ones, at that.

So what this section of the story is showing is how to move on. If cheating happens in a relationship, if there is love present then both parties will work to move past that. You can't cut a character's story short and judge them by such, so we can't judge the future of Sacchan and Ruki until we see it. I didn't say she shouldn't feel bad, but that she currently doesn't feel bad, other than she knows it hurt Ruki, which is completely different from feeling bad for being unfaithful. I also said, literally, that if she commits to this relationship, she will feel bad in the near future. So it could end up being unhealthy, but at the moment it is not.

But, it is a fact that Sacchan learned more about herself from cheating. You learn just as much about yourself for you wrong actions as much as your right ones. In this story, Sacchan found out something profoundly good about herself, unfortunately through a bad way. In real life, spoiler alert, people do this all the time.

Ah! you know the thing about love is that it can either make you weaker or stronger.

I cry evertim.

Even though Sacchan's a pretty terrible person for cheating on Ruki, at least something productive happened in their relationship. This is definitely a good change from the past few chapters of Ruki being emotionally destroyed by Remi.

Remi is a bitch, Sacchan is a selfish barbie, Ruki is a punch bag, Fue a frigid deadpan, Asuna a sex addict, Meru a braindead mess and Masaa a walking porcupine dilemma.

Don't know why I didn't see this comment before, but that about sums up the characters imo

Why is Remi culpable for other people's actions? She wasn't in a monogamous relationship, she didn't force Sachi to have sex. The whole point was that Sachi chose to. She chose to be duplicitous, she chose to be an aggressor, she made her own decisions. Remi is a lazy ass plot device, but she is hardly to be blamed for the actions of others.

So to build a healthy relationship, you try to be 'supportive' instead of 'reserved' or 'strong'?
Sachi try to be reserved in her previous relationship and that leads to nowhere.
So after some 'lessons' she now try to be strong, along with Ruki. This counts as being 'supportive' right? Since both of them are trying to be strong...
I love this chap, it finally showed some developments in Sachi character sigh
I like Sachi, since her character has room for improvement lol and I like long straight hair =))

This is actually a nice development for Sachi especially the sister part, when the cheating part slaps me in the face to remind me again. I seriously, genuinely don't understand why she have to have sex with Remi. I get the part where she wants to be strong and she's her own person to do whatever she wants but, aren't there another way to do it? To discover yourself? "I cheated because I want to be strong for you" It's the most bullshit reason I've ever come across. Even in real life, it can't be topped. I think Shuninta just covered it up and is also confused herself(or himself?)

I didn't know Dynasty could be so hostile about a manga before. It makes me not want to venture into these forums again.

That's actually rather less nice than most of the hostility you're complaining about. Most of the people are badmouthing a fictional character. You're dissing actual people. Most of the people are dissing someone for a serious betrayal. You're saying anyone who does a little rant is so awful you don't want to associate with such trash ever again!
So yeah, if you wanna flounce, flounce, but I don't think that horse is as high as you think it is. Of course, "Oh dear! I feel like leaving! (but here's some long paragraphs about my POV)" isn't hugely convincing as an exit line.

ColonalCat pretty much gets it head on. Sachi doesn't show remorse because she found something about herself during her fling with Remi, and she shouldn't be sorry about it.

Well . . . yes, she should be sorry about it. When you hurt someone, you should be sorry about it, unless maybe it's out of revenge. When you betray someone's trust, you should be sorry about it. So she learned something about herself, that's nice for her, but it doesn't un-hurt Ruki. It's like saying Sachi shouldn't show remorse or be sorry because she made a thousand bucks during her fling with Remi: Does not follow, those two things do not connect.

She can be the strong and assertive type of person instead of being so submissive, whereas Ruki has always been timid and fragile - there was no way she was ever going to be the strong person she wants to be.

Strong. Great. Looks to me an awful lot like she's going to be to Ruki what her ex-boyfriend was to her.

Sachi doesn't apologize because there's nothing to apologize for; she knows what she did hurt Ruki, and in a way her revealing this information is almost like an apology without the bland "I'm sorry"s. She wants that cleared up, and wants Ruki to know all of it before they even step into becoming girlfriends.

So she knows what she did hurt Ruki, but there's nothing to apologize for. So next time she hurts Ruki, there will also be nothing to apologize for. And the next, and the next . . . she's going to "protect" Ruki, but she doesn't care about her getting hurt. Who's going to protect Ruki from her?

"I'm sorry" is bland, yes. Cliche. Standardized. That's because it has a meaning, and it's the only meaning that is of any use when you've hurt someone. People who don't care about "I'm sorry" when they hurt people are BAD PEOPLE. Does anyone notice that in the same breath as she shows no remorse for cheating on Ruki, she still calls her ex-boyfriend a "cheating scumbag". The moment people refuse to apply the same standards to themselves as they do to others is the moment they start to become horrible.

Sleeping with Remi, she pretty much comes to a conclusion that she can make her own decisions - she doesn't need another person telling her what to do, dragging her around and her just putting up with it. Instead, she wants to be the person her lover can rely on.

A good way to start being a person her lover can rely on would be to apologize for hurting her and promise not to do anything like that again. At the moment, she's not the person her lover can rely on, she's the person who gave a slight "pfft" laugh as the lover she broke lost the last of her pride. Really, I don't see her showing any strength in this chapter, just callousness.

Ruki doesn't know why she loves her, and this is a huge thing Remi explains in chapter (two?), where she says they never know who they'll fall in love with. It just happens. Once they realize it, they're in way too deep in to get out so easily. That's why she accepts Sachi's explanation.

Agreed thus far.

It isn't until she sees Ruki desperately trying to scramble the perfect date, and then crying when they get lost, that she knows she's the shoulder Ruki needs. That she needs to take charge and make Ruki happy, not the other way around.

Yeah, see, this is the part I don't buy. That's what the mangaka is trying to get across, but it is not working. I only see her taking charge. I don't see her caring about Ruki's happiness. She's not being a shoulder, a shoulder is a support. She's if anything pushing Ruki down, letting her humiliate herself and offering nothing.

When she asks her sister if she's okay with her having a girlfriend, I see that as a huge important part of Sachi's growth as a person. If she kept it a secret and pretended like they were friends, sure, you can call her an asshole. But she doesn't; she wants to make sure her family is fine with it.

That part is not bad, or wouldn't be if I weren't by this point feeling horrified at the prospect of poor Ruki being with this awful person who will just grind her down to be weaker and weaker until she has a nervous breakdown or something.

This was a beautiful chapter and a huge step forward for Sachi. I'm disappointed a lot of you can't see that.

It was a huge step for Sachi. She became a stronger person, perhaps, or at least harder. She became more self-motivated, and more self-centred. We basically found out that the world might have been better off with weak Sachi than with strong Sachi, because strong Sachi uses her strength to step on people who care about her. So a huge step in some direction, but forward is not the direction I'm thinking.

Basically, your whole analysis assumes that Ruki does not exist as a person, or at least does not matter. Once you assume that, then sure, Sachi got lots of self-actualization or whatever done. But in fact, Sachi's "growth" comes purely at the expense of breaking Ruki down to the point where she's left with
"As long as it's you, I'm fine with anything"
--and that's all Sachi gives her, just "You can have me, on my terms, if you grovel for it, and I give you nothing and concede nothing."
Does Ruki ever look happy in this chapter? No. And that would be the one part of this I can certainly believe in; she has no reason to. And she's not likely to get one.

Even though Sacchan's a pretty terrible person for cheating on Ruki, at least something productive happened in their relationship. This is definitely a good change from the past few chapters of Ruki being emotionally destroyed by Remi.

Absolutely! Now she gets to be emotionally destroyed by Sachi instead!