Uuuuh I wanted to comment on that way before today's episode, like what the hell is her problem? what's worse is that there's lots of people who really like Sumire and it's becoming more and more evident how she's forced to play a joke that died a season ago instead of getting more development, she's chained to Keke and her secret, it's not even a joke at this point, Keke attacks anything Sumire says or does, it looks awkward.

So, uh, Arknights anime in about a month. The player-character stand-in here is... probably intended to be androgynous, but has a female seiyuu

Not familiar enough with the game to say much beyond that, though

So, uh, Arknights anime in about a month. The player-character stand-in here is... probably intended to be androgynous, but has a female seiyuu

Not familiar enough with the game to say much beyond that, though

She’s voiced male characters before. I’m more curious if they will end up going the harem route or if they’ll actually let the characters have their own relations, i.e. Franka/Liskarm, Texas/Lappland, etcs, though I doubt there’ll be much in terms of romance.

Lycoris Recoil finale
fucking yuri bait

Chisato/Takina dynamic was the only thing this terrible anime had going for it so I watched til the end in the faint hope that it would redeem itself, but no. We can't have that. Oh, sure, we can have a homosexual male relationship, of course we can, but the schoolgirl main characters need to be ~available~ for the horny male demographic to fantasise about being their waifu. Just one fucking time I'd like to see a canon yuri relationship in a story that isn't explicitly about the yuri. I'm so fucking tired, I don't know why I even watch anime anymore.

The best anime of the year has ended... the void left behind won't be filled in a loooong time

Reading those last two posts is whiplash-inducing. Goddamn

Personally, I rather liked LycoReco, but it felt a bit neutered by wanting to be able to make a sequel. No major changes to the status quo occur

The best anime of the year has ended... the void left behind won't be filled in a loooong time

I don't know... As good as Extreme Hearts was, isn't that a bit too much praise, especially in a year that already gave us Akebi-chan? :P

The best anime of the year has ended... the void left behind won't be filled in a loooong time

I don't know... As good as Extreme Hearts was, isn't that a bit too much praise, especially in a year that already gave us Akebi-chan? :P

Honestly couldn't get through even two episodes of Akebi-chan. Love the manga but the animation in the anime hurt my eyes.

Anyway, personally I liked Shokei Shoujo the most out of all of this year's offerings. LycoReco is a very close 2nd though

Still got plenty coming up. And Birdie Wing S1, Machikado S2, and MagiReco S3 were also this year

The best anime of the year has ended... the void left behind won't be filled in a loooong time

Just pull the same thing I'm about to pull and watch an anime you haven't watched before that's already existed for quite some time.

Honestly couldn't get through even two episodes of Akebi-chan. Love the manga but the animation in the anime hurt my eyes.

Anyway, personally I liked Shokei Shoujo the most out of all of this year's offerings. LycoReco is a very close 2nd though

For me Akebi was the first anime I've given a 10 on MAL since fall 2018 had Yagate Kimi ni Naru and Beelzebub-jou no Okinimesu mama.

Shokei Shoujo didn't really live up even to the manga version. And can't comment on Lycoris, was never interested enough to watch it.

For me Akebi was the first anime I've given a 10 on MAL since autumn 2018 had Yagate Kimi ni Naru and Beelzebub-jou no Okinimesu mama.

Really? I mean, even beyond my thoughts on the animation it's still only 8/10 at most for me. (and Beelzebub-jou is a 6-7/10). Well, you do you I guess

Shokei Shoujo didn't really live up even to the manga version.

I on the other hand hated the manga and think the anime went above even the novels (tbf, I watched the anime before the novels so that shapes my opinion of them, but still)

Reading those last two posts is whiplash-inducing. Goddamn

Personally, I rather liked LycoReco, but it felt a bit neutered by wanting to be able to make a sequel. No major changes to the status quo occur

LycoReco was all about the character stories more than anything... SoL action? Not sure how to label it. Still probably AOTY for me.

I ended up liking Extreme Hearts quite a bit but it didn't seem particularly gay to me at all.

it's very hard to me to see this anime as bait.

It totally was actively, intentionally baiting, though. It's one thing to show a close female friendship and entirely another to do what LycoReco did, which was something more akin to "here's some pseudo-lesbians for men to draw lewd art of together, but also they're not actually gay so make sure you buy figures and pillowcases of your imaginary schoolgirl girlfriend." I really can't see it as anything other than "yuri for straight men".

Overall all I think the show is amazing and since I never had expectation of them confirming anything, I'm perfectly fine with how the show ended

This was my other problem, I actively hated the show already and the potential for yuri was the only reason I kept watching. The entire anime was nothing but dissonance and tonal whiplash. You had scenes of schoolgirls being executed literally back to back with sickeningly cutesy cute girls doing cute things d'awwwww. There are anime that pull off this kind of thing well, like Madoka Magica, because they give weight to the darker scenes and make them seriously impact the characters. What happens in ep3 of MadoMagi is something that the girls spend literally the entire rest of the anime contending with emotionally, and it influences their decisions. Here the girls behave like perfectly happy-go-lucky schoolgirls from beginning to end, as if their friends and coworkers weren't being murdered by terrorists on the daily.

Also, despite being well-animated, the action was terribly written. The level of plot armour is just objectively bad writing, for both the protagonist and antagonists. Nameless Lyco gets hit by a car, she's a goner. Chisato gets hit by a car, not even a scratch. Majima tanks literally dozens of bullets that incapicitate anyone else after one or two shots, and is unscathed by a point-blank rocket explosion. The key to suspension of disbelief is internal consistency - it's okay to write a goofy action anime with cartoon-tier violence, but if you do, it should be consistent. As it is, the action has no weight to it and yet sometimes it ends with schoolgirls being brutally murdered and at other times it doesn't, with the only consistency to it being "named characters are invincible".

Maybe don't mistake Bait and Subtext.

Sure thing. MadoMagi is subtext. LycoReco is bait. There's certainly no confusing it when they explicitly had a canon male couple - this is not a series that feels the need to render homosexuality to reading between the lines.

Lilisionnach posted:

I’m more curious if they will end up going the harem route or if they’ll actually let the characters have their own relations, i.e. Franka/Liskarm, Texas/Lappland, etcs, though I doubt there’ll be much in terms of romance.

I doubt there will be any harem etc. because game never forces all their characters to be in love with Doctor and instead let them just be themselves. And honestly the story doesn't really have time for romance anyway. It's very dark and serious story for the most part and there's very little levity in it. Romance is just not focus at all and even if we get something, it'll probably be kept to a subtext in the background. That being said, while personally I'm not going in expecting anything explicit, I wouldn't outright cross possibility we could get something more either, as there's at least 1 canon lesbian operator in the game. She's a not really relevant 4 star with dead girlfriend in her backstory though, so you could argue she's just a token representation, but it's there and game do have a lot of chemistry between characters, even if nothing is ever confirmed.

Honestly I'm not sure how much of it is that they can't (or aren't allowed) to show it and how much it is just simply that it's not the focus of the story. In fact one of ships that people very clearly felt that they have the divorced couple feel (Saria and Silence) got a spin off backstory manga which have them openly flirting and Silence is literally acting as a maiden in love trying to win Saria over. Words "I like/love you" never are said, but reading it as something else than them being attracted to each other and getting closer, but later having a falling out is impossible. If they allowed for something like that to appear in official manga, then to me it says that they're not really against making blatant subtext, that's meant to be canon.

All in all, whatever we get anything or not, it's not anime you watch for romance. You watch it for amazing characters, very complex political story and deep world-building. Also anime fights. Lots of anime fights. And it's not happy story. Despite it being a fantasy world that's very different from ours, it often feels exactly like ours. It's full of injustice and exploitation, good people, bad people and just normal people who simply try to live their day to day lives in peace. If you're not in mood or in bad place in live, it can actually be very upsetting to watch at times, so I really only recommend it to people who are ready for that and don't mind some very heavy themes of discrimination in their fiction.

Also one of strong points of Arknights is that it has a very varied cast that isn't full of overly sexualized girls in skimpy cloths. Developers treat their characters with respect and in fact the way characters dress and the way their skins look are very tasteful and often look like something you might want to wear yourself.

Yeah, I’ve played through chapter 2 (not much, I know) The game is definitely on the heavy side, it being full on war and all. I agree with your statement on character designs. I will applaud them for that. As much as I love the MiHoYo games, they’ve definitely restricted their characters based on the preset character models they have. Arknights can have more variety in size and design since the gameplay itself uses the smaller models. Can’t wait to see those designs in the anime.

Part of the reason I was curious is because of those backstories in the game. I will say, we probably won’t see anything more than subtext. MiHoYo has the same issue of riding the line between showing the relationships but not being to obvious with what they are doing.

last edited at Sep 24, 2022 10:22PM

I think the meaning of the term "Yuri bait" should change as time goes by. In the year 2022, I completely understand if some people say that a series like Lycoris Recoil is bait. To use that term only for when the protagonists end up in a heterosexual relationship would be setting the bar way too low.

It totally was actively, intentionally baiting, though. It's one thing to show a close female friendship and entirely another to do what LycoReco did, which was something more akin to "here's some pseudo-lesbians for men to draw lewd art of together, but also they're not actually gay so make sure you buy figures and pillowcases of your imaginary schoolgirl girlfriend." I really can't see it as anything other than "yuri for straight men".

I mean... have you seen the Chisato Nendoroid though? She can do the Stand By Me butt kicking pose for when they eventually release the Takina Nendoroid (who I'm sure will also kick butt)

I'm usually really critical of bait but I found the LycoReco ending pretty satisfying. To each their own really.

last edited at Sep 24, 2022 11:59PM

Shokei Shoujo didn't really live up even to the manga version

...I can sorta understand preferring the manga version, but the anime version is objectively better. The manga tried to turn it into a more grandiose, high fantasy story, but it was never meant to be that and ended up becoming incoherent in the process

I doubt there will be any harem etc. because game never forces all their characters to be in love with Doctor and instead let them just be themselves

I mean, the trailer did have everyone talking up the Doctor

I ended up liking Extreme Hearts quite a bit but it didn't seem particularly gay to me at all.

Extreme Hearts was def pretty light on the subtext, though I did think that Hiyori and Saki had a nice thing going that could easily be expanded upon (as i pointed out back when ep.10 aired xD

Extreme Hearts Ep.10 was pretty hecking gay, ngl. Nobody can tell me that Saki doesn't have the doki for Hiyori now
with all that blush

(relevant screenshots)
https://imgur.com/a/fdgyL9n

I think the meaning of the term "Yuri bait" should change as time goes by. In the year 2022, I completely understand if some people say that a series like Lycoris Recoil is bait. To use that term only for when the protagonists end up in a heterosexual relationship would be setting the bar way too low.

And I really think it shouldn't, we don't need more people dismissing everything that isn't explicitly yuri as bait garbage. Lumping Lycoris Recoil (or, hell, anime/manga like Flip Flappers or Machikado Mazoku) in the same category as stuff like Euphonium or Love Lab isn't helping anyone.

Sure thing. MadoMagi is subtext. LycoReco is bait. There's certainly no confusing it when they explicitly had a canon male couple - this is not a series that feels the need to render homosexuality to reading between the lines.

Subtext isn't bait. LycoReco is subtext. The scriptwriter is a yuri fan. "We want to write yuri but don't want the waifu lovers to send us death threats" isn't the same as "We want those gross yuri fans to give us their money and social media engagement but we need to make sure they know we think they're delusional degenerates". LycoReco definitely didn't feel like the latter. An original anime production has more moving pieces, people and money involved than a manga, so less risk-taking is a given. The suits weren't going to make any figures of Mika, so him being gay isn't a marketing risk IMO.

Also, I recommend not forcing yourself to sit through something you dislike! Wait for comments about the ending to see if it's worth your time. I watched all of Wonder Egg Priority as it aired hoping to understand why everyone seemed to love it, even though I disliked it from the start. I hated almost every second of it and I'll never get those hours of my life back.

Maybe I'm naive, but the only reason I'm unwilling to assume "not confirmed relationship = bait" is simply, because I still believe there can exist well done subtle relationships that are never outright stated, but nonetheless still a clear text of the work aka true subtext and not just bait. It's unfortunate yuri (and other lgbt+ works) have a long history of giving them a plausible deniability to not alienate straight audience and maybe unless we start getting tones of mainstream works that confirms them, only then this kind of subtext can again be given the benefit of the doubt and not automatically assume the worst of creators motives, but I'm just not willing to give up completely on it just yet.

I'm with Nevri here. There are plenty of stories where the staff clearly want the yuri pair(s) to be taken seriously, but can't be as explicit as they want due to marketability concerns. They fully know that the weirdos will burn their figures if the girls are confirmed to be unavailable to them (because it has happened before), and the investors don't want their potential new franchise to be a flop.
There's an element of cynicism on the creative team's part, sure, but I also think of it as being realistic.

(I actually don't have a horse in this race, I thought LycoReco was a decent "turn your brain off" anime but I'll probably have forgotten about it by next week. I just wanted to get involved in the Discourse.)

So we're in full agreement that this was done for marketability of merchandise, you just have a more optimistic view that it was done with more benevolent intentions. But I'd contend that the intentions don't really matter. At the end of the day the result is the same, and I can't say I have any respect for writers who place pleasing that particular demographic above everything else. It worked, sure, of course it did. It was the most popular anime of the season, they've got this pandering down to a formula. But that's exactly the problem. Nothing will ever change as long as they keep doing this, again and again and again and again. The fact that male homosexuallity was depicted but that female homosexuality isn't shows that even as they lose their fear of alienating homophobes, they're never going to give up the lucrative market of selling merch to gross otaku who fantasise about schoolgirls. And it's a self-perpetuating cycle: the more they do this, the more they alienate normal people, meaning they have to go even harder to bat for that one demographic, and so on and so forth....

Also, I recommend not forcing yourself to sit through something you dislike!

Well, this is probably good advice, although at this point this basically rules out watching anime for me. Feels like the entire medium has driven off a cliff over the past few years. Every season, it's the exact same thing: the same isekai Gary Stu self-insert slave harem story 5 times per season, these formulaic CGDCT yuri baits that pander perfectly to the otaku who buy lots of merch, and a couple of het romance stories with a loaf of bread for a male protagonist. It's a real tragedy because I think anime has the potential to be the most amazing medium for telling stories: the perfect coalescence of not only art and animation but also music, voice acting, special effects, and everything else makes it so that when anime is good, it's better than what any other medium can accomplish. But it's been years since I've seen anything taking advantage of the strengths of the genre. Now it's just nothing but waifus.

last edited at Sep 25, 2022 11:30AM

Well, this is probably good advice, although at this point this basically rules out watching anime for me. Feels like the entire medium has driven off a cliff over the past few years. Every season, it's the exact same thing

I find this take somewhat odd, as since 2018 we had anime adaptations of Yagate Kimi ni Naru, Adachi To Shimamura, Machikado Mazoku, Manaria/Mysteria Friends, the final season of Symphopgear, The Executinor and her way of life, and original gems like Birdie Wing (if we are just talking about yuri/subtext shows mind you, there is more in other categories that aren't relevant to this community, like Jojo's Bizarre Adventure which, if anything, is one of the most creative uses of anime as a medium I have ever seen. Same can be said of Mob Psycho 100 and the like). There is an unfathomable mountain of low quality generic material, but there always has been. Whether you go to 2006, 2016 or 2022, there will always be far more unwatchable content than decent one.

My take is that so often we start to take fewer risks, dismiss series more quickly and grow saturated with tropes to the point where enjoyment withers. But I always shirk away from claims of an objective decline in imagination or variety. The amount of anime produced every year does push the industry to its limits and there are issues with animators having to cut corners no doubt. But for every generic harem show we get incredibly odd cases of anime that are clearly passion projects or elevated by the source material.

At the end of the day the result is the same, and I can't say I have any respect for writers who place pleasing that particular demographic above everything else.

I don't think this is the writers' decision, behind every writing team is an investor who only thinks of anime in terms of profits. And of course the people who want to make all the money will pander to the demographic that spends the most.

these formulaic CGDCT yuri baits

Again, not necessarily bait! Many of the authors of those CGDCT manga that get adapted are genuinely yuri fans.

Feels like the entire medium has driven off a cliff over the past few years.

Maybe? Seems to me that the vast majority of anime has always been trash for as long as I've been following the new seasonal releases, just like the majority of everything that comes out in every single medium is mediocre and uninspired. But there is definitely an ongoing crisis in the anime industry--every year there are multiple production disasters, so producers could be less willing to try new things. Also, this is me talking out of my ass, but I have a suspicion that the Japanese incels are becoming increasingly radicalized and unwilling to think of even fictional women as more than objects, hence the flood of shitty power fantasy harems. I don't think that's going to get better any time soon.

I watch fewer anime than I used to, but I think it's worth keeping up with what's being released (even if you don't subject yourself to it personally) because once in a while something comes along that's actually worth watching. Last season's Birdie Wing isn't everyone's cup of tea because of its unabashed absurdity, but it's the most fun I've had with an anime in more than a decade. And the main characters are so openly gay for each other I don't think it caught on with the waifu crowd at all (or with any crowd; in fact, the Blu-Rays sold terribly). There are exceptions that make the research worthwhile (I personally let other people do most of the researching).

I'm going to stop because I can't express myself well and I'm afraid of coming off as patronizing, but there's nothing wrong with engaging less (or stopping completely) with a medium that doesn't make you happy anymore. I stopped watching live-action movies and television years ago because I realized they brought me more annoyance (and straight up anger) than happiness. Haven't heard of a single one since that sounded like I'd enjoy it.