that body...

As someone that got into Hololive precisely because of Takamori, I must say this is n extremely disappointing turn of events. I think most people saw it coming but I still had hoped for them to be able to work things out but it wasn't the case.

I can't blame Kiara for wanting to be more than just Calli's crazy love interest but the way she did it, well it wasn't the best. She took off the veil that kept Vtubers separate from regular streamers and I simply won't be able to see her and Calli in the same way. I wish them both all the best but whatever comes next is not something I'm interested in seeing, is just not the same, and I do not like the idea of seeing Kiara having new "canon" ships because I can't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.

The upside is that breaking the link between the character and the performer means that I can keep enjoying Takamori fan works (for as long as keep doing them, at least) by taking them as if they were just another couple from a manga or an anime and ignore completely the existence of their RL counterparts.

Is this their fdf design?

^ Were twins. As far as I can tell, the lore says that one of them died, and may be possessing the other, or the other may just be suffering from multiple personality disorder.

Holy shi-

I might have been alone in divorcing the characters they are playing from whom they actually are when they aren't streaming...

Love the embarrassed expressions in this, reine so cute

@Dark_Tzitzimine honestly, i feel the same way, like the way she said it, it just throwed the possibility that everything they do can be just an act, she said that she wants to do other "ships" but like...no...why do you want to do that if your feelings are not real?, i'm not saying that she should force herself to have these feelings but like...if you just don't really feel it...then just don't do it? Even if it's just her character, she is still a real person with real feelings, why do you want People to get invested on other ships if you literally just shoved on everyone's face that it was all just acting?
personally this just broke the immersion of Vtubers for me, i won't be able to watch it the same way i watched before, now everything they do just seem fake...idk

^no but seriously what part of "performing artists" wasn't computing for you in the first place? You don't expect the actors in whatever series you're currently watching to "really" feel the emotions and relationships and whatever they're portraying either, do you?
That's just basic entertainement reality check.

I might add that only too often when I see people commenting on VTubers here I legitimately cannot tell to what degree they're just playing along with the relevant kayfabe and how much they've allowed weird wisful thinking and "shipping" to erode the ever-important reality/fiction filter that distinguishes the actor from the role.

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 1:52AM

^Wathever man, all i'm saying is that they are still streamers who constantly interact with their viewers and with other talents, you can't compare that to shows/series because there's literally no script they have to follow besides their basic "character" aspects, supposedly

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 2:07AM

^I quite fail to see what is supposed to fundamentally change with the different medium and degree of interaction. Plus live performers are a thing too and routinely interact with their audiences while donning one role or another on the stage.
Tell me - exactly what difference is it supposed to make that the stage is a virtual forum instead of a structure in a hall or a park?

Lowkey suspecting you might need a dose of certain healthy cynicism regarding the scripting aspect, too.

^Ok

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 2:13AM

Welp things took a turn here I see. I don't know why people are having such a crisis of faith with this situation. Basically expect Vtubers to have some genuineness to their friendships, their personality in their characters, however you shouldn't expect anything from things like ships. I've been around Takamori since day one and it was super obvious to me that it was something Kiara did for fun but not out of any seriousness.

Also everyone has different sides to them, different masks they wear for different people. Don't expect to truly know everything about anyone, and especially don't expect that from entertainers you don't personally know. Remember that at the end of the day they have a life outside of their streaming and are a person outside of the character they put on for streaming. This can be said for streamers who just use a camera as well.

I've been separating the streamer from the person they are outside of streaming since day one, and so I'm not having any crisis of faith here. I'm not at all understanding how this situation ruins Vtubers for people and the immersion of the character.

Edit 2: I removed "but alas maybe people needed the reality check", because it's not my intent to be rude and I realize the wording is harsher than I meant. So I'll instead say, maybe people needed to realize there's more to the streamer outside of their streaming persona. Their character is just one of many sides of who they are. Hopefully this reflects my thoughts a bit better, and doesn't sound rude.

Edit: I would say I understand some of where Buscoito is coming from. Vtubers are a mix of a person and a character, more than a TV/Movie character and actor most of the time anyhow. I would say I agree with some of what Random is saying but disagree with other aspects, like if you seriously think Vtubers are scripted that's legitimately wild.

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 2:39AM

I love

@Random

I think we all are aware of the fact that ultimately, they're actors. But having the cover of the virtual persona gave them a degree of plausible deniability that let you think "what if is actually real?" Especially with the way Kiara always came off as being legitimately into Calli and girls in general, and even Calli's dere moments worked into it. All of this created a very unique scenario where you could see and interact with fictional characters in a way you rarely see.

But once that Kiara comes out and says that everything is just an act, well, then they're just another streamer for the pile and at least for me, I can no longer see their interactions with each other as anything but just another part of their job.

Oh and your suggestion of "Healthy cynicism" just comes off as being a party pooper that can't see anything without looking for things to smugly say "Is fake". And I think that is such an awful way of living.

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 2:29AM

@FluffyCow Well then i think i was just enjoying Vtubers in the wrong way i guess, i think i was just convinced by their roles that i tought they were more of themselves on stream, i apologize if i said something wrong and made anyone upset

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 2:30AM

@Buscoito You're perfectly fine, and I don't think you were enjoying them in the wrong way. Apologies if I came across as saying that, I didn't mean to sound rude either. I think they ARE to a degree themselves and the character. Who they are on stream and how they blend into their character is a side of them, we're not going to see all the sides of them or know who they are outside of streaming. Which I think is fine personally, and just knowing this has made it so I'm aware that there's these sides to them that we'll never see and it means my immersion is intact. I get what I expect with the streams and the streamer, hopefully this makes sense.

^^^to put it bluntly I can only see that as a "you" kind of problem; emotional over-investement in a fantasy that holds a particular appeal to you.
Because that's what it is at the end of the day and allowing yourself to forget that distinction after the latest performance segment has concluded is straight up dangerous. It's the first step down a slope that leads to some very dark places.

Whatever the medium and the skill of the performers it's fundamentally the responsibility of the viewer to distinguish fact from fiction; and the audience most certainly is not entitled to make any demands of the actors outside the role and then get mad when those aren't met.

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 2:36AM

What's with this ship recently? I've been seeing alot of HaMarine pics, but I have no idea why it surfaced. I must be missing something here.

Ultimately it's kind of interesting to be having this conversation in a way. Since we're all strangers that could be anywhere in the world, we know really nothing about each other. A few thoughts and opinions of each other. Everything we're saying and thinking might not even be conveyed properly, it's difficult to fully get our thoughts across and communicate, how people perceive what we say might be different than how we intend it, and all of this text conversation lacks tone. So I mean this whole conversation we strangers are all having about streamers with character personas on line, is in it's self comically surreal. I just hope nobody feels bad about anything I've said, I have no ill will towards anyone here even if I share different views. I hope everyone is able to enjoy the things like they like. We're just a bunch of people on a strange ball floating in space, all trying to live our lives the best we can haha

^errrr... did you hit the bottle and suddenly switch into "soulful old drunk" mode or something? o_O

^Haha well it's entirely fair to think that, but no. People I know tend to think my way of thinking is a bit unusual, I suppose I find life in general surreal.

Edit: I'm going to hit the hay, have a wonderful night everyone, it was fun chatting. Time to fly through the cosmos of dreams. As the Nursery Rhyme goes, "Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream, Merrily merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream".

last edited at Sep 29, 2021 3:49AM

^^I'm largely out of the loop with the Haato/Haachama lore, but the way you describe it sounds a lot like Norman Bates.

@Aquwin I was thinking the same thing.

Clearly what vtubers should do is adopt personas so absolutely insane that there's no question what they're doing is all an act.